Those of you of Gen X age or older will remember that in 1985, Philadelphia Mayor W. Wilson Goode bombed a poor neighborhood in order to flush out a radical African-American group called “MOVE.” I predict that as the true details of the story of the Katrina failures are disclosed, Mayor Ray Nagin will be seen as the “Wilson Goode” of New Orleans.
It is quite telling that as soon as the Feds were physically able (the key phrase!) to move into the city today, they did so with efficiency and impressive outcomes. Thirty-thousand people were evacuated from New Orleans just today. None were evacuated until the Federal government got involved. But instead, the Mayor whined and screeched for two days. Rudy Giuliani may have been frustrated in the post-9/11 days, but he also must have aired those views directly to those involved, not in front of the TV cameras as a publicity stunt.
I have watched the televised interviews of a range of Federal officials closely over the past 36 hours. You can tell in their eyes that they want to throw Mayor Nagin under the proverbial bus…. but that’s not the way to get things done. Mayor Nagin obviously disagrees.
At Observations of a Gay Conservative, QC notes that New Orleans is a prime example of what happens when an entire class of people become dependent on government for everything – even making life or death decisions. The more ‘entitlements’ people are given the more they want. The more people don’t have to provide for themselves, the less capable they become of doing so.
Mayor Ray Nagin, and the historically corrupt government of New Orleans, were the chief enablers of this mentality — yet let the citizens down when the most needed it. How ironic.
Rich Lowry at The Corner received this email from a reader following his critique of the Federal response yesterday.
It is not [a national disgrace]. It is – or ought to be – a disgrace and an embarrassment to Louisiana and New Orleans. I see the way Florida prepares for and responds to hurricanes; I see the way Mississippi and Alabama are dealing with this one; I’ve seen the Carolinas and Virginia deal with hurricanes, too. I’ve been in Miami and Norfolk when hurricanes hit, though not as severe as this one, and seen folks come together to support each other in the crisis. I see the outpouring of support from surrounding states and from the federal government heading to Louisiana as fast as it can. And then I see citizens of New Orleans shooting, raping, burning, and plundering while their government officials stand by helplessly….
The JunkYardBlog rightly points out that the man responsible for New Orleans’ emergency operations also has misplaced and projected anger at the Feds. Warning– this posting will make you very angry.
How can the Democrat machine use buses to get people in New Orleans to the polls on Election Day, but they can’t use the same buses to move them out of the city when the corrupt Mayor orders a “mandatory evacuation.”
And now, we find out that Mayor Nagin, in his city’s greatest time of need, put politics above all else and paid off his political cronies with one last disgusting move. Shepard Smith on The FOX Report just a few minutes ago reported the following:
A stunning development today to many across the region, who learned that the mayor of this city, Ray Nagin ordered people from the Hyatt (foreign tourists and his staff) were put at the front of the line of those taken from the Superdome. He is being widely criticized for putting outsiders ahead of his own people who were suffering in that building. There will be political fallout.
It is quite clear that Mayor Nagin’s television theatrics against President Bush were designed as a distraction. So no one would realize that he fiddled while his city drowned.
CRITICAL UPDATE: Powerline has discovered that it was President Bush, not Nagin and not Gov. Blanco, that first pleaded that New Orleans be evacuated. Proof is right here.
-Bruce (GayPatriot) – gaypatriot2004@aol.com
But… but… but… Bush was eating cake and playing guitar… and didn’t even care about the hurricane until five days later….
According to Powerline: Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding
Well, I hope everyone is still frightened of terrorism. This hurricane shows just how asinine the war on in Iraq really is. Why should we worry about foreign terrorists when mother nature is capable of destroying an entire region in just a day? Hurricane season ain’t over yet.
RE: “Observations By A Gay Conservative”. By the way, we’re making the Iraqi people dependent on our services. Why didn’t we require that they oust Saddam Hussein themselves? They’ll never appreciate their freedom if they don’t earn it, right? Bah. Typical Right Wing Noise.
I am so pleased that the vacationing president made a call to plead for the evacuation of NO. He then resumed his vacation. I think that that will go down in history as the very definition of lip service. It is heartening that most of the people with transportation evacuated on the urgings of the president. I also think that the total disregard of the composition and location of the poorest people of NO could be considered tantamount to ethnic cleansing. Let the body count begin.
And I would like to thank God, Himself, for sparing every homosexual that would have been in NO this weekend. He is truly a great and merciful Lord.
=
Once again, Chandler is doing what all Bush-bashers do, if there’s a problem, blame George W. Bush. He made his share of mistakes and I wish he had spoken out more forcefully on Wednesday than he did, but he did coordinate a massive relief effort, much of which has been underreported in the MSM.
But, Chandler acts as if there were no local authorities around in the City of New Orleans or state of Louisiana and only our man W screwed up.
No one know the full scope of the disaster until after the hurricane hit and the levees broke–at which point the president cut short his vacation and rushed to Washington to coordinate relief.
Accusing him of ethnic cleansing is mean-spirited and short-sighted and ignores the failures at the local level which Bruce details in this post and which are just beginning to come to light in other media. Not only that it ignores the genuine compassion he showed for those two black women in Mississippi. Even my very liberal sister agreed that he was affected by their situation, that his concern for their plight was genuine — as well as his concern for the plight of countless others who suffered in the recent catastrophe.
In coming days, we will see that while the president and the Administration did make their share of mistakes, local officials bear the lion share’s of the responsibility for the failures of the past few days.
Why didn’t we require that they oust Saddam Hussein themselves? They’ll never appreciate their freedom if they don’t earn it, right?
Considering that literally hundreds of thousands of them died in various uprisings against Saddam Hussein, I think they’ve made it more than obvious that they were willing to fight for their freedom.
Of course, that wasn’t reported by CNN or Michael Moore, so obviously it didn’t happen.
I also think that the total disregard of the composition and location of the poorest people of NO could be considered tantamount to ethnic cleansing. Let the body count begin.
Problem is, though, Chandler, it was the Democratic governor of Louisiana and the Democratic mayor of New Orleans who showed the “total disregard” and failed to stock the Superdome and other places for just such an emergency, or to send the flooded buses shown in the picture cited out to gather people and drive them away from the path of the storm.
Why do you think your fellow liberals were so desperate to kill poor black people that they deliberately did not stock the shelters into which they piled thousands of people, or did not send out the buses they owned to collect others and send them out of the city ahead of the hurricane?
Problem is, though, Chandler, it was the Democratic governor of Louisiana and the Democratic mayor of New Orleans who showed the “total disregard” and failed to stock the Superdome and other places for just such an emergency, or to send the flooded buses shown in the picture cited out to gather people and drive them away from the path of the storm.
Comment by North Dallas Thirty
==============================
Wow faceless person who uses some freakish movie title name,
The destruction of one of America’s most significant strategic economic ports of entry is exclusively, in the days of massive Homeland Security, a states rights issue? The catastrophic destruction of of a major metroplex system and the care of its citizens should be the perview of the state? Considering that this horrific event wrecked havoc over three states, I totally agree with you. Now that Dan doesn’t like people to point fingers, or call names, North Dallas Tripe, I agree with you, let them suffer. And just how does one stock the Superdome without the help of the federal government? Seven-eleven?
If the local authorities failed, yet the Department of Homeland Security is supposed to deal with disasters then there are only two possibilitities:
1) Neither the local nor the federal authorities had a realistic plan here
2) The local authorities didn’t have a plan yet the Feds didn’t make a peep about it
Which is it? If local disaster prepration is a purely local affair then why have a Department of Homeland Security?
Kind of ironic that the Evil State of Texas is doing a hell of a lot better job figuring out what to do with Louisiana’s hurricane victims than Louisiana is.
I am so pleased that the vacationing president made a call to plead for the evacuation of NO. He then resumed his vacation. I think that that will go down in history as the very definition of lip service.
Well, that’s more than either the mayor or the governor did. Also, you have trouble understanding the difference between “away from the White House” and “on vacation”. Next you’ll be saying “Bush is AWOL”, I’m sure.
I also think that the total disregard of the composition and location of the poorest people of NO
That sentence makes absolutely no sense. What the F are you babbling about?
I’m going to stay out this one because it’s still not the time yet for political recriminations and no one (not a single one of you here) can be sure where the political fault lies for what is clearly an incompetent response to the NO disaster.
But I’d advise all Patsies to take heed of the anger that’s being directed at Bush, DHS and its FEMA unit (particularly the hapless Mike Brown, whose qualification for the FEMA directorship appears to have been running an Arabian horse club). I think the general tenor of what I’m reading in the national press and hearing on national and cable news (even your stalwart Fox, my friends) is that:
a. Louisiana politicians have been (for years) urgently asking the President for money to reinforce the levees, only to see their budget cut (by up to 60% in the President’s latest budget). Maybe President Bush can appoint a task force to sort out why this vital infrastructure has been neglected.
b. Yes, the President did recognize (despite his comments since) that a disaster was looming, yet did not press to have “assets” or help in place to respond quickly. Why he didn’t we don’t yet know, but the general feel is that he fiercely protects his vacation time. And is it true that the man has spent an entire year of his five in office on vacation? 21% of the time, I heard. This is not acceptable and we all need to demand that he focus on the job a bit more. Perhaps this is an opportunity for yet another task force.
c. People in both parties are unhappy about the response — I think GOP Senator Vitter (LA) gave the Federal response an “F” rating yesterday. You can expect more of that level of anger in the days ahead.
d. Looking to the future, people in both parties are concerned about the capacity of this administration to handle subsequent natural disasters (perhaps more hurricanes in this exceptional hurricane season) as well as terrorist attacks.
e. Finally, what the hell has happened to FEMA? This agency, long a refuge for political cronies until President Clinton reformed it under James Witt’s leadership, was extraordinary in the 90’s, but now seems to be lost within the HSA bureaucracy. Any chance President Bush might dip his toe into reality and bring back Mr. Witt to sort things out. Or, at least, he could appoint a task force to study the abject failure of FEMA in NO.
Lots of questions; lots of concerns. But the Patsies are already on the attack (against who? why Democrats, of course). You might want to wait a bit before going there.
Regarding the levee rehabilitation project, that has been in place since 1965. Bush has been President in exactly four-and-a-half of those 40 years. Funding is not significantly different under Bush than it has been under Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush Sr. or Clinton.
The levees which failed had either been recently rehabilitated or were found to have no need to be rehabilitated per the plans.
But let’s blame Bush for it anyway.
And let’s also scream “he’s on vacation!” every single minute he is away from the White House.
So, Frankie, you’re saying the budget cuts for levee reinforcement (up to 60%) which have occurred under President Bush have played no role in all this?
INFO ALERT FOR ALL PATSIES WHO WANT TO BLAME DEMOCRATIC POLITICIANS FOR THE INCOMPETENT RESPONSE TO THE NOLA DISASTER:
This just in: turns out La. Gov. Blanco did indeed predict the scope of the calamity and urgently pleaded with the President for specific forms of help ON AUGUST 28th in this letter now available on the Governor’s website. How can you defend the President’s lack of response in the face of these facts?
http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20Relief%20Request.pdf
Reader –
In a telephone interview with reporters, Army Corps of Engineers officials said that although rehabilitation of portions of the flood-protection levees remain incomplete, the levees near Lake Pontchartrain that gave way–inundating much of the city–were completed and in good condition before the hurricane.
Reader –
Er, did you bother to read the PDF document to which you linked?
The governor requested
“Individual assistance, including the Individual and Household Program (IHP), Disaster Unemployment Assistance, Crisis Counseling, Public Assistance, Small Business Administration loans, Direct Federal Assistance…” – in other words, MONEY to rebuild after the disaster happened.
“The following information is furnished on the amouth of state and local resources that have been or will be used to alleviate conditions of the disaster…”
So where precisely is the request for federal aid of the type that you claim was needed but was not provided?
Frank — wouldn’t you expect a little CYA at a time like this? If you want an independent analysis of what happened and how prepared the ACE was, try this:
http://www.geotimes.org/current/WebExtra090105.html
So what the governor was doing was asking the Feds for money to rebuild after the catastrophe. But don’t ask her to actually deal with the situation before it developed – Bush had to persuade HER to order a mandatory evacuation.
Reader –
You’re evading once again, and once again, your linked article misses the point that you’re trying (and failing) to make.
Another question for “Reader”* –
Did the mayor of New Orleans or the Governor of Louisiana ever urge that the levees be upgraded to handle more than a Category 3 hurricane?
*In quotes because it’s obvious that he doesn’t bother to read the articles to which he links.
Wow faceless person who uses some freakish movie title name,
The destruction of one of America’s most significant strategic economic ports of entry is exclusively, in the days of massive Homeland Security, a states rights issue?
There is a rather significant difference between the strategic Port of New Orleans and the city of New Orleans. The two are not synonymous.
The catastrophic destruction of of a major metroplex system and the care of its citizens should be the perview of the state?
City first, state second, and Feds last.
Now, Chandler, this ties to your last question:
And just how does one stock the Superdome without the help of the federal government? Seven-eleven?
City and state tax dollars. Given that they’ve had a year to prepare since Hurricane Ivan last year, this seems particularly inexcusable — but you have to remember that New Orleans has one of the most corrupt city governments on earth where millions of dollars disappear annually, diverted to buy Democratic votes and aided and abetted by apologists like you, Chandler.
While you spout your talking points that the mayor and the governor should not be held responsible because they couldn’t prepare the Superdome as an emergency shelter with a year’s advance warning, the rest of us think otherwise. The irony is, of course, that had you spent as much money and time on evacuating your constituents with the fleets of buses that are now under water as you did on getting them to the polls, many more of them would likely still be alive and far less of them would be trapped in your wasteland of a city.
I wonder what Heather Chandler thinks the purpose of state and local taxes are.
Just what do liberals think the purposes of state and local governments are, anyway? Just to lobby the federal government for relief, and nothing else?
“Heather Chandler” — Bwah hah ha hah ha hah
Yes, blame the victims. When a catastrophe occurs, blame local officials. Hell, it’s their fault that the Army Corps of Engineers has been underfunded for five years in order to finance Iraq. Hell, them damn poor people should’ve used their American Express to get to higher ground, like they were told. Don’t poor black folk know any better. And of course, they should be grateful for the $10 billion GWB appropriated for them, even though estimates are 300 times that much. What I want to know, really, is why the religious reich’s Gawd allowed this happen? Doesn’t the guy care? Is prayer that inefficient? Or just maybe, as one religious zealot put it, this was Gawd’s revenge for New Orlean’s decadence. Damn those queers, they cause all sorts of problems. Yes, blame everyone and everything on anybody but Gawd, his minion GWB, or his lankeys Tom DeLay, et alia.
For the benefit of Stephen, who like “Reader”, also appears to have trouble reading, I will repeat my earlier post:
In a telephone interview with reporters, Army Corps of Engineers officials said that although rehabilitation of portions of the flood-protection levees remain incomplete, the levees near Lake Pontchartrain that gave way–inundating much of the city–were completed and in good condition before the hurricane.
You like saying that phrase “poor black folk”, don’t you, Stephen?
Another liberal with total contempt for the people he claims to love….
Stephen rants:
What I want to know, really, is why the religious reich’s Gawd allowed this happen? Doesn’t the guy care? Is prayer that inefficient? Or just maybe, as one religious zealot put it, this was Gawd’s revenge for New Orlean’s decadence. Damn those queers, they cause all sorts of problems. Yes, blame everyone and everything on anybody but Gawd…
Meanwhile…
Speaking to a large crowd in South Philadelphia last night, Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan suggested that the devastation caused by Hurricane Katrina was divine punishment for the violence America had inflicted on Iraq.
“New Orleans is the first of the cities going to tumble down… unless America changes its course,” Farrakhan said.
“It is the wickedness of the people of America and the government of America that is bringing the wrath of God down,” he told several hundred people at Tinsley Temple United Methodist Church.
His remarks were enthusiastically received.
In order to blame God, Stephen, you have to acknowledge that He exists in the first place. Even doing that is progress for most gay liberals. 🙂
Hell, it’s their fault that the Army Corps of Engineers has been underfunded for five years in order to finance Iraq.
That’s a neat trick, given that the Iraq war didn’t begin until 2003. Let the DNC know there’s a typo in their talking points, wouldya?
Hell, them damn poor people should’ve used their American Express to get to higher ground, like they were told. Don’t poor black folk know any better.
They didn’t need an Amex; they simply needed those school buses that come through their neighborhood every day to stop, pick them up, and take them out of the city, instead of leaving said buses in a parking lot to be flooded out.
A four hour walk would have taken “them damn poor people” out of the danger zone.
Walk? How dare you suggest that people walk to get from one place to another?
Walking is supposed to be done for exercise and recreation only!
Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to go and drive my SUV four blocks down to the gym, park it in a handicapped space so that I can walk a half-mile on the treadmill.
BRAVO! Thanks for clearly making the point that misguided political ideology like socialism and government dependence causes misery, poverty and a whole host of other human problems.
Syn –
The psychological term is “learned helplessness”.
I actually almost agree with Reader’s point in #12. We cannot now ascertain where the political fault lies. Yet, he then proceeds to attack the Administration.
One thing remains clear. We are primarily hearing of problems in delivering relief to Louisiana. If the problem is FEMA, how come they pulled through in Alabama and Mississippi? So, it’s clear that the problem is not this administration’s response to natural disasters, but to address the particular problems of the flooding and its effects in New Orleans.
Methinks a large measure of the problem if the false sense of relief many people felt Monday night (Aug. 29). I was driving that day from Carpinteria, CA en route to Colorado and heard then news of the hurricane. They reported that while there was devastation on Alabama and Mississippi’s Gulf Coast, the storm had turned east and New Orleans has been spared. At that time, people did not think the Crescent City would suffer much damage. Perhaps, complacency sunk in — and people breathed a sigh of relief too soon.
It’s amazing how quick so many who already have axes to grind with President are to blame him and his Administration while excusing local officials. I agree that the Administration was a bit slow to respond to the catastrophe in New Orleans, but local officials made their share of mistakes and as more and more information comes to light, it is becoming increasingly clear to what extent they dropped the ball.
Those predisposed to mistrust the Administration are eager to blame the president for this and so neglect failures at other levels. So, let me conclude by returning to a point at the top of this comment–if you’re going to fault the Administration for dropping the ball in handling the crisis in New Orleans, you also should praise it for getting things done in Alabama and Mississippi.
33. From what I saw, a lot of those poor suffering people might have some trouble walking up a flight of stairs, let alone a few miles to safety. Funny how poor oppressed people who can barely survive on their paltry welfare checks seem to suffer disproportinately from morbid obesity.
On the other hand, when it came to tearing open locked and barred doors to get at the loot inside, they showed a lot of ingenuity and personal initiative.
North Dallas Thirty
Have I told you lately that I love you!
(You too Gay Patriot)
My love also extends to V the K!
Funny how poor oppressed people who can barely survive on their paltry welfare checks seem to suffer disproportinately from morbid obesity.
McDonalds!!! The Supersizing of America!!!! Soft Drink Companies!!! High Fuctose Corn Syrup!!!!
There were plenty of people other than poor black people who were unable to make it out of the city. My friend is a law student at Tulane who happens to not have a car. Were it not for a friend who was heading out to Houston, she would have had no way out of the city. By the time they were scrambling to find transportation, there were no other buses leaving the city, rental car companies were sold out and Amtrak quit running trains. Evacuating a city is all fine and dandy, unless you don’t have a way to get out.
As for the argument of the levees, the point is not whether the strengthening of the levees would have helped, but the fact that there was not a single care whether they would or not. Funding was cut in 2003 to virtually nothing and even the US Army Corps of Engineers has been quoted that it was due to budget cuts to pay for the tax breaks and the war in Iraq. It’s a clear example of how INSECURE the homeland is because of this war in Iraq. It’s embarrassing as well that five days later, the response by the federal government (ignore for the moment who is to blame for why these people are stranded in the first place) in handling this is less than stellar. It makes me realize how incapable we are of handling situations like these. I think Homeland Security is a nightmarish waste of money that has provided NOTHING that the former infrastructure could not have provided in a more efficient way with a few changes. I think the bureaucracy slowed the response. And now the military is sending 300 troops home from Iraq to help? We don’t have the capability to handle this without bringing troops home? God help us if we ever have another terrorist attack or if some other natural disaster were to happen. This has shown us how thin we are stretched. Keep blowing smoke up Dubya’s ass all you want. I have obviously never been a fan but I think every day there are more who are losing their patience with this Administration. Feel free to blame Michael Moore and the MSM for it if you want, but I don’t believe people are that naive.
Maybe Syn, ND30, V the K, GP, GPW and I need to get a room? 🙂
I think Homeland Security is a nightmarish waste of money that has provided NOTHING that the former infrastructure could not have provided in a more efficient way with a few changes.
Agreed.
So, since the talking point that the levees were underfunded has been shredded by reality, it now shifts to, ‘it’s symbolic of how liberating Iraq and trying to democratize the Middle East weakens our security.’ This is, of course, short-term thinking. If Islamic Terrorism is Lake Pontchartrain, we’re New Orleans. The short-sighted approach is to keep shoring up the levees. Some of us think draining the lake is a better idea.
I think Homeland Security is a nightmarish waste of money that has provided NOTHING that the former infrastructure could not have provided in a more efficient way with a few changes.
You mean like Bush originally wanted to do before the media and Congress demanded creating a DHS?
In Comment #42 Britton writes, “Evacuating a city is all fine and dandy, unless you don’t have a way to get out.” And this is why Junkyard Blog wonders why all these buses owned by the City of New Orleans sat idle in the days before the storm struck. And were flooded afterwards.
I think we can add Cheney’s absence to Reader’s post #12. My guess is that history will find it significant.
I would amend ND30’s post #23 to read:
City first, state second, Feds third, foreign governments last.
ND30’s post #6 omits the part when we encouraged Iraqis to overthrow Saddam and then abandoned them to their death. And we would be hard pressed to decide who has been least willing to fight for Iraqi freedom—Iraqis or American chickenhawks and their cheerleading squad of vixens.
The neo-conservative attitudes toward fellow citizens expressed on this site are sickening.
You’re on…but first I’ll have to stop buy Planned Parenthood to get my free anti-fetus pills they are so generously donating to the Katrina fund.
Should I wear my “Fluffer” t-shirt or my “Lick Me” t-shirt?
I think Homeland Security is a nightmarish waste of money that has provided NOTHING that the former infrastructure could not have provided in a more efficient way with a few changes.
Agreed.
Comment by Frank IBC
=====================
http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/theme_home2.jsp
Preparing America
In the event of a terrorist attack, natural disaster or other large- scale emergency, the Department of Homeland Security will assume primary responsibility on March 1st for ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared for any situation. This will entail providing a coordinated, comprehensive federal response to any large-scale crisis and mounting a swift and effective recovery effort. The new Department will also prioritize the important issue of citizen preparedness. Educating America’s families on how best to prepare their homes for a disaster and tips for citizens on how to respond in a crisis will be given special attention at DHS.
Anon –
The neo-conservative attitudes toward fellow citizens expressed on this site are sickening.
First off, could you tell us what you mean when you say “neo-conservative”, and how your use of that phrase is relevant to this thread?
I assume you’re referring in part to my comments saying that people need to take at least some minimal responsibility to save their own lives, no matter how dire a situation they may find themselves in.
Otherwise, if you’re just waiting for someone else to save you, you’re f***ed.
#9 – Are natural disasters the job of the Department of Homeland Security? I thought terrorists were their job. Last time I checked, terrorists weren’t involved in this one.
#22 – Hah hah – Yet another good contributor here (Frank) discovers that “READER” DOESN’T READ! (I’ve been saying that for awhile now.)
Joe –
FEMA is part of DHS.
Well it looks like both ND30 and I were wrong. In this post 9/11 world we have undergone yet another “neo” paradigm shift. As of March 1, the Department of Homeland Security became the primary responder for natural disasters.
From http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/theme_home2.jsp
Emergencies & Disasters
Preparing America
In the event of a terrorist attack, natural disaster or other large-scale emergency, the Department of Homeland Security will assume primary responsibility on March 1st for ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared for any situation. This will entail providing a coordinated, comprehensive federal response to any large-scale crisis and mounting a swift and effective recovery effort. The new Department will also prioritize the important issue of citizen preparedness. Educating America’s families on how best to prepare their homes for a disaster and tips for citizens on how to respond in a crisis will be given special attention at DHS
joe: pretend a foreign terrorist had blew up the levees. This is the response you would get.
How does using the word “neo” make your argument stronger?
“Neo” means new, like “New Tide.” Newer is better right. Better than the old. Iimproved.
Should I wear my “Fluffer” t-shirt or my “Lick Me” t-shirt?
Oh, I think they’re both nice. I wonder if PP is still selling the ones that say, “I aborted my honor student.”
Dan, which came first?
This: http://www.nola.com/newsflash/louisiana/index.ssf?base/news-18/1125239940201382.xml&storylist=louisiana
Or this: http://www.nola.com/newsflash/louisiana/index.ssf?base/news-18/1125239940201382.xml&storylist=louisiana
ND30’s post #6 omits the part when we encouraged Iraqis to overthrow Saddam and then abandoned them to their death.
Second worst foreign policy decision ever made.
The first was leaving Saddam in power in 1991 in the first place.
If the levee were blown to bits by terrorists it would still take a Governor to immedialtely call upon the LA National Guard (which she did not) and the Mayor of New Orleans to secure his city asap, imposing marshall law if necessary (which he did not).
That said it would still take an extraordinary effort, like what happen when NYC was attacked, to amass Federal response units. These guys do not sit just outside every major city in America waiting to move into position in a matter of hours, ya know! After 9/11, the mayor took charge until the Feds could arrive, which I believe was about three to four days later. OF course, the city of NO’s and the City of NY have different elements to deal with BUT, had Guilliani not led his city out of the chaos, it could have easily fallen into the utter lawless environment now displayed in the City of New Orleans.
This is what needs to be addressed when we are discussing Homeland Security….are the mayors and the govenors PREPARED to handle disasters until the Federal government can arrive? Or all mayors and govenors going to respond in the manner in which the LA Govenor and NO mayor responded?
Nothing New Tide about it….just common sense.
From what I have seen and read about FEMA and Federal response, they were on the spot very quickly in all the areas except for the flooded NO’s.
How, if the mayor of NO was serious about planning for the likelihood of a terrorist attack on those levees, then he would have prepared the Superdome much better than was obviously planned. Things like food, water, portable toilets, security etc.etc.etc would have been necessary for him to have ordered people into the Superdome. BUT, he didn’t.
Wait a minute. #52 (hah hah) says Reader doesn’t read, which tells us he DOES read what Reader writes — despite his persistent claim that he “never reads Reader”. Does Reader now have a new reader? Frank, you appear to have appointed yourself site monitor for the day; maybe you can answer that.
V the K
PP wouldn’t want to anyone to breed smart people for fear people just might learn where The Road to Serfdom begins and ends.
By the way, it’s summer I think I’ll wear my “lick me” t-shirt …it has a picture of ice cream bubbling out over the cone. ummm
it’s summer I think I’ll wear my “lick me” t-shirt
I don’t know if that’s the best choice. According to Bill Clinton, it still counts as abstinence… and you know how PP feels about abstinence.
Oh boy. The poor Patsies are NOT going to like this…
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/04/national/nationalspecial/04bush.html?hp&ex=1125806400&en=23cce9f23aa42f66&ei=5094&partner=homepage
A Bush-bashing story from the New York Times? Wow, never saw that coming.
What’s next? An essay by Andrew Sullivan supporting gay marriage? A dishonest propaganda film by Michael Moore? A poorly spelled, profanilty-laced essay posted on Daily Kos?
profanilty s/b profanity
Hey, let’s be clear about things….we didn’t have sex.
And, wipe the stuff off your dress before you leave.
Reader (58)-
??
Do you even read what you yourself write?
If it’s not in the Science Times, Food and Dining, Circuits, or Travel sections, I ain’t reading it.
But Frank, the New York Times has a proud tradition of reporting the truth… from William Duranty to Jayson Blair.
Re: #58. Thank you Clint. I would have sworn I put 2 different links in there. Well, here was what I meant to post when I asked…
Dan, which came first…
This (Dan’s link):
http://www.nola.com/newsflash/louisiana/index.ssf?base/news-18/1125239940201382.xml&storylist=louisiana
Or this (a different link):
http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20Relief%20Request.pdf
According to Instapundit, the City of New Orleans has an official Hurricane Plan, under which New Orleans has a required evacuation time of 72 Hours
According to the NOLA release, the governor waited until at least 1000 hours Sunday the 28th before ordering a mandatory evacuation. After President Bush “pleaded” with her. Katrina made landfall at around 0600 and struck East of New Orleans at 0800 Monday.
That’s only 20 – 22 hours.
That’s very interesting, because the Left is screaming that “Bush knew”, allegedly on Friday, that Katrina was a Category 4 storm and that it was going to hit New Orleans, and that since he had 72 hours notice, there was “no excuse”.
Really, I understand the Governor’s reluctance; mandatory evacuation of a city of one million-plus people is not something you do lightly, nor should it be; had a bridge collapsed from traffic on I-10, for instance, or planes collided at the airport, the loss of life could have been in the thousands in the first place. Furthermore, she had declared a state of emergency on Friday, which would presumably alert cities in the state to do similarly.
Of course, down in New Orleans, Mayor Nagin took until Sunday to even declare a state of emergency; however, he did take pains to make sure that the Hyatt across from City Hall was completely stocked and ready to make sure that he and his cronies were ready.
Pity he didn’t do the same for the Superdome.
Also, I thought this was a salient point
NAGIN: I need reinforcements, I need troops, man. I need 500 buses, man. We ain’t talking about — you know, one of the briefings we had, they were talking about getting public school bus drivers to come down here and bus people out here.
I’m like, “You got to be kidding me. This is a national disaster. Get every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get their asses moving to New Orleans.”
That’s — they’re thinking small, man. And this is a major, major, major deal. And I can’t emphasize it enough, man. This is crazy.
If the Mayor had looked in his own school district, he would have found plenty of buses to get his constituents out of the city ahead of the hurricane.
Pity somebody didn’t tell him it was an election, not a hurricane — he would have gotten off his ass and started making sure the “poor” got somewhere.
Did you guys read this press release out of Sen. Landrieu’s office? If you just want to scan, go to the paragraph talking about how the WH set up a fake-progress photo op.
http://landrieu.senate.gov/releases/05/2005903E12.html
And what about this AP story? Did you see this?
http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/news/politics/12548040.htm
A link to New York Times article bashing the president.
A link to partisan Democrat bashing the president.
A link to a story about another partisan Democrat bashing the president
What’s next, a link to Michael Moore bashing the president?
Big YAWN.
“Brownie, you’re doing a heck of a job”, the President told FEMA director Mike Brown. One hell of a quote in an article exposing the resume of Brown. Take a peek.
http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/myrtlebeachonline/news/politics/12554958.htm
Uh oh, it’s The Sentinel, VTK, standing watch for the faithful Patsies to guard against any outside thought. Too bad you didn’t take the time to read the articles I’m so generously providing. You might have learned what an empty suit you’ve been humping.
Time to go to bed, VTK. 11-ish in the East. You get the last word, so go at it. The subject is this: what did Bush mean when he told the FEMA director, “Brownie, you’re doing a heck of a job”? Do you think he meant “heck of a GOOD job” or just “a hellaciously bad job”?
George Bush works behind the scenes… BDSers bitch. “He’s not doing anything. He doesn’t care.”
Bush makes the rounds. BDSers bitch. “Photo Op. He doesn’t really care!”
A partisan Democrat congressman whines because a satellite phone doesn’t work. “It’s Bush’s fault.”
And so it goes…
And did you see this, Reader?
Seems kind of funny that Nagin, Blanco, and Landrieu are all screaming and finger-pointing about there not being enough buses to get people out of town AFTER the hurricane…..while there were literally hundreds of school buses AND transit buses in the city, ready and able to take thousands of people out and to safety BEFORE the hurricane hit and destroyed virtually all transportation links to the city, as had been predicted would happen with a storm of Katrina’s magnitude. Even crazier….they were next to the freeway out and bare miles from the Superdome on the same freeway.
Moreover, are you aware that Nagin told people they had to bring their own food and water to the Superdome? After Hurricane Ivan last year, they KNEW they couldn’t evacuate the city completely….and ever since the Superdome was built, it has been known that it would be used as an emergency shelter. Logic would suggest that you stock food and water in emergency shelters, especially when you know that transportation links likely will be destroyed and out of commission for days.
Why wasn’t that done?
And before you start whining about money, Reader, be warned….you will be slapped with the fact that literally millions of dollars of state and local tax money have been skimmed from the city and from the state by successive corrupt Democratic administrations that have followed a very simple pattern — exploit the poor to suck more dollars for your own pocket.
Reader-
re: 72.
Did you read it?
On Sunday, Bush pleaded with the Governor to get the people out of the city.
Your response:
But, on Saturday, she asked the President to release $130 Million in disaster-relief FUNDING.
(To which he responded — you’ve got to be kidding me, for a temporary measure just to get us started let’s allot $10 Billion…)
NDT, Clint: You guys are doing another of your tandem dances, this time trying to shore up Dear Leader’s image by blaming the local Mayor, the Governor, any Democrat in sight. Well, at least you’re moving on from the “blame the refugees” gambit, which didn’t fly. Go read Brooks in the Times this morning and start to get a little perspective on what you’ve helped to create in this country.
NDT, on a personal note: what a surprise to hear you’re moving to SF. Though I understand it’s some time off still, good luck in your planning and move. Gosh, if we think you’re a fired-up winger from your base in conservative Dallas, just imagine what you’ll be like almost completely surrounded by liberals (and more than a few ultra-liberals) in SF. Compensating for that though (in your case) will be the extraordinary beauty of the city and Bay Area and, at least from my frequent experience there on business, some of the smartest, nicest people you’ll ever meet.
Clint, #84 — I thought following Reader’s links would at least provide something more substantive than the juvenile name-calling and cut-and-paste Michael Moore/Daily Kos talking points that make up its usual “contributions” to the forum. Alas, they consist of a memo put together by the dingbat governor’s staff after Bush pleaded for mandatory evacuation that apparently the governor never acted upon, a partisan democrat senator covering her ass, and a partisan democrat congressman blaming Bush for a satellite phone malfunction.
And all of this is supposed to prove that Bush should be the focus of blame for all the failures in the disaster response? And anyone who doesn’t think the blame should be focused on Bush … despite the considerable evidence of failures at state and local leadership (buses not being used to evacuate people, the hurricane evacuation plan not being followed, mandatory evacuations not imposed until a few hours before the hurricane made landfall)… is subject to juvenile name-calling.
My view is that everyone’s performance in this episode should be reviewed for the sake of better preparedness next time. I don’t think any special commissions to point blame will be useful at all. I mean, look at the 9-11 commission, no accountability came out of there, just a suggestion to create another bureaucracy.
But there’s no point in arguing with anyone so detached from reality that all they want to do is spew hate, and they’ll clutch and straw and scrape any barrel to come up with something to rationalize it.
From the Washington Post, More Bad News for Reader’s Spin (And This Article Actually Makes a Point)
The Ray Nagin Memorial Motor Pool
So, whose fault was it these buses were not used to evacuate people from New Orleans? A.) George Bush B.) Karl Rove C.) Jeff Gannon or D.) The Olson Twins?
And the ironic part if you read the Washington Post article is that local authorities didn’t want to turn authority over to the administration because… in conspiracy-minded moonbat fashion… they were afraid the Feds would botch the evacuation and relief effort and blame it on the locals. So, instead, as it turned out, locals botched the evacuation and relief (c.f. Ray Nagin Memorial Motor Pool) and blamed it on Bush.
Classic.
#51, #53 – Of course. I apologize for my mistake.
#82 – So freaking true. The pure hatefulness, spite and destructiveness of the hard-core Bush-haters will be America’s downfall, if there is to be one at this time (or in the near future).
#75 – He didn’t use hundreds of his own buses. Beyond “shocking” or “astounding”.
If the mayor, city council and governor of Louisiana “just work here” and Bush is personally responsible for everyone in the state himself, it may be time to allow Bush to start hand-picking mayors and governors to all districts. If Bush is going to have all the responsibility, he should have all the authority as well. What CEO is going to take being thwarted by low-level managers if his job is going to be on the line everytime there is a service failure?
VTK, I read the Post story and also noted that it is based on a slew of unnamed sources, many INSIDE the Federal Government. Let’s see what more local journalists have observed:
http://www.nola.com/newslogs/tporleans/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_tporleans/archives/2005_09.html#076771
After reading some of the posts here I am truly amazed. Such defense of George “let’s get them faggots” Bush. Surely anyone would concede that state and local govt. should play a role, but the FEDs almost always play the largest role in these situations.
More specifically to the state and local folks – LA is a poor state with some of the largest stratification between rich and poor in the nation. FL has done better with hurricanes in the initial days in some measure because the state coffers are filled with dollars from a myriad of revenue sources (don’t bother with the general accusations that the govenor and mayor are stealing unless you have some proof)
The most appalling thing of all is the cavalier air of the Bushites. “Everything is great!” Why not shoot the victims of the hurricane and then claim – “well at least they will suffer no more.” And it isn’t just N.O. that got the shaft on this, MS was mired in confusion as well. It just doesn’t get the benefit of as much official support since they’re red states.
I’m a conservative – but I still think that means prudence, treading carefully, and ensuring that what you do helps rather than hinders the nation. Between missteps on 9/11, Iraq, and now this I can only hope some new party emerges which embodies those values.
I think these folks are radicals that have lost sight of what conservatism, and prudent management of government truly means.
Funny that so many proclaimed “right-wingers” bash Europe over their “overly liberal” social benefits, when the Prez (a civil servant) gets more vacation than even the French!
Criticisms of Bush that had some merit:
1. Bush waited too long to return from vacation, which looked bad (although no one’s shown how it would have made any difference.)
Critcisms of Bush that turned out to be bullshit:
1. Global warming caused by Bush resulted in the hurricane. (Soundly debunked).
2. Bush cut the budgets to a levee project that could have saved New Orleans. (Soundly debunked.)
3. Bush was too slow to react to the emergency situation. (False… Bush was actually ahead of local authorities.)
4. Bush should have sent in National Guard troops on Tuesday. (1. Bush did not have the legal authority (i.e. dictatorial powers) to do so. 2. There was no place for them to go. Landing planes onto flooded runways and sending trucks into flooded streets)
5. Bush should have air-dropped supplies onto the looters. (Ouch!)
6. Bush sent National Guard troops to Iraq. (Illegitimate critcism. Securing Iraq is vital to American security, and sufficient National Guard resources from other states were available had the dingbat governor of Louisiana bothered to call for them.)
What else?
“LA is a poor state with some of the largest stratification between rich and poor in the nation.”
All the more reason to try electing someone other than a Democrat for once. They obviously aren’t doing the job.
You Bush-haters are going to burst additional blood vessels trying to make this all his fault and like Cindy Sheehan, the Downing Street Memos, the tsunami disaster and Iraq – you are going to be hateful and unfair and Bush will still be in office when you’ve moved on to the next thing that you “just know” will bring him down. We know you hate Bush. You don’t have to prove it to anyone. Leave that foundation alone and move on from there.
Ok.
When a previous post calls for a stop to the finger pointing and then this post makes a random stab at democrats and their election day buses I can’t really take anything you have to say seriously.
I’m sick of people on both sides of the fence criticizing behaviors from the other side that I really hope for some sort of anti-extremism meme to come out of this. Perhaps it is time for the moderates to get mad.
No doubt, if this lemon of a President were a Democrat the right would be ripping off his head.
Or am I wrong here?
David Martin-
The same folks who are currently screaming that this is happening to N.O. because of Mardi Gras celebrations would be screaming for the head of a Democratic President no matter what he did.
Most of the people posting here would not.
At least, not unless they could find some reason to — one that would hold up to even a little bit of scrutiny.
VtK has a nice roundup of the criticisms that have been offered in post #96. Do you believe that one or more of these has merit?
(VtK– you forgot the most outrageous and offensive of all, which Stephen offered a few days ago — that Bush doesn’t care about the suffering in New Orleans.)
I’ll add another Bush criticism that has merit. He should not have been praising FEMA Director Brown in public when FEMA was clearly not working as hard as they could have. I understand that this is probably what Bush was taught at Harvard MBA School: Praise publically, chastise privately. But the focus of criticism should fall squarely on FEMA, and Bush should be criticized to the extent that he should have been more proactive about getting FEMA’s thumb out of their ass.
Which is a long way from saying Bush fiddled while New Orleans drowned, or that he directly instigated the suffering there.
VtK-
Agreed, on both counts. (That standard B-School training led him to do it, and that he shouldn’t have.)
In FEMA’s defense (though not necessarily in Brown’s) — they seem to have done an excellent job in Mississippi.
Lest we all forget, Mississippi took a much worse hit from the hurricane than Louisiana did.
Clint — I think the difference in Louisiana versus Mississippi is the difference between competent and incompetent state government. While Louisiana’s dingbat governor and New Orleans’ ‘Way In Over His Head’ Mayor spent Tuesday and Wednesday trying to find TV cameras to cry in front of, the governors of Mississippi and Alabama were surveying the damage and coordinating relief efforts.
VtK-
Exactly.
Just because Bush called and pleaded for a mandatory evacuation does not mean Nagin and Blanco hadn’t already planned on doing so.
What really tells the story are the hundreds and hundreds of school buses flooded in lot and lot. Under the MAYOR’s direction, those buses could have been used to transport people out of New Orleans. And last I looked, the GOVERNOR is the Commander-in-Chief of the Louisiana National Guard — they are under HER command and under HER jurisdiction. She could have (but didn’t) call them in at any time! The real story is the lawlessness, the terror, the looting, shooting, and killing of a City gone wild. Remember, it’s hard to rescue someone when armed gangs are shooting at you! Do I wish FEMA had been faster to drop food and water — you bet! But do I wish that the Mayor and the Governor had an evacuation plan ready for a City below sea level — I wish that even more!
#106: Plan in one hand and crap in the other. See which one fills up first.
VtK-
Ick. Keep that kind of thing where it belongs: in your bedroom… er… I mean bathroom!
The mayor failed to get people out soon enough! Thats a fact. The mayor failed to make sure the pumps on the levee (mispelled I’m sure) were working properly. They failed. The federal gov’t cannot just prance in and intervene untill all options are exhausted. The National Guard can come in but somehow this idea is out there that half the service men were suppose to show up the day after the storm and that is not how it works. Bush can’t take all the blame here. Get ride of the FEMA guy-Micheal ?
Oh stuff it Clint, and I’m sure you’re able. I’ve had enough of your own do. Can’t you take a joke? Idiot!
In case you aren’t familiar with how our government is SUPPOSED to work:
The chain of responsiblity for the protection of the citizens in New Orleans is:
1. The Mayor
2. The New Orleans director of Homeland Security (a political appointee of the Governor who reports to the Governor)
3. The Governor
4. The Head of Homeland Security
5. The President
What did each do?
1. The mayor, with 5 days advance, waited until 2 days before he announced a mandatory evacuation (at the behest of the President). The he failed to provide transportation for those without transport even though he had hundreds of buses at his disposal.
2. The New Orleans director of Homeland Security failed to have any plan for a contingency that has been talked about for 50 years. Then he blames the Feds for not doing what he should have done. (So much for political appointees)
3. The Governor, despite a declaration of disaster by the President 2 DAYS BEFORE the storm hit, failed to take advantage of the offer of Federal troops and aid. Until 2 DAYS AFTER the storm hit.
4. The Director of Homeland Security positioned assets in the area to be ready when the Governor called for them
5. The President urged a mandatory evacuation, and even declared a disaster State of Emergency, freeing up millions of dollars of federal assistance, should the Governor decide to use it.
Oh and by the way, the levees that broke were the responsibility of the local landowners and the local levee board to maintain, NOT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
The disaster in New Orleans is what you get after decades of corrupt (democrat) government going all the way back to Huey Long.
Funds for disaster protection and relief have been flowing into this city for decades, and where has it gone, but into the pockets of the politicos and their friends.
Decades of socialist government in New Orleans has sapped all self reliance from the community, and made them dependent upon government for every little thing.
Political correctness and a lack of will to fight crime have created the single most corrupt police force in the country, and has permitted gang violence to flourish.
The sad thing is that there are many poor folks who have suffered and died needlessly because those that they voted into office failed them.
For those who missed item 5 (where the President’s level of accountability is discussed), it is made more clear in a New Orleans Times-Picayune article dated August 28:
NEW ORLEANS (AP) — In the face of a catastrophic Hurricane Katrina, a mandatory evacuation was ordered Sunday for New Orleans by Mayor Ray Nagin
Acknowledging that large numbers of people, many of them stranded tourists, would be unable to leave, the city set up 10 places of last resort for people to go, including the Superdome.
The mayor called the order unprecedented and said anyone who could leave the city should. He exempted hotels from the evacuation order because airlines had already cancelled all flights.
Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding. (emphasis mine)
The ball was placed in Mayor Nagin’s court to carry out the evacuation order. With a 5-day heads-up, he had the authority to use any and all services to evacuate all residents from the city, as documented in a city emergency preparedness plan. By waiting until the last minute, and failing to make full use of resources available within city limits, Nagin and his administration f**ked up.
Mayor Nagin and his emergency sidekick Terry Ebbert have displayed lethal, mind boggling incompetence before, during and after Katrina.
As for Mayor Nagin, he and his profile in pathetic leadership police chief should resign as well. That city’s government is incompetent from one end to the other. The people of New Orleans deserve better than this crowd of clowns is capable of giving them.
If you’re keeping track, these boobs let 569 buses that could have carried 33,350 people out of New Orleans–in one trip–get ruined in the floods. Whatever plan these guys had, it was a dud. Or it probably would have been if they’d bothered to follow it.
As for all the race-baiting rhetoric and Bush-bashing coming from prominent blacks on the left, don’t expect Ray Nagin to be called out on the carpet for falling short. You want to know why? Here’s why:
It’s more convenient to blame a white president for what went wrong than to hold a black mayor and his administration accountable for gross negligence and failing to fully carry out an established emergency preparedness plan.
To hold Nagin and his administration accountable for dropping the ball amounts to letting loose the shouts and cries of “Racism!”. It’s sad, it’s wrong, but it’s standard operating procedure for the media and left-wing black leadership.
Mark my words: you will not hear a word of criticism from Jesse Jackson Sr., Randall Robinson, the Congressional Black Caucus, the NAACP, or Kanye West being directed toward Clarence Ray Nagin Jr. Why? Because he is just another black politician instead of a responsible elected official who happens to be black. In the mindset of more-blacker-than-thou blacks, black politicians who are on their side can do no wrong.