GayPatriot

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NYT: New Orleans Police Walk Off Job

by

Story confirmed by the Liberal Queen herself, The New York Times.

Law Officers, Overwhelmed, Are Quitting The Force – NYT

NEW ORLEANS, Sept. 3 – Reeling from the chaos of this overwhelmed city, at least 200 New Orleans police officers have walked away from their jobs and two have committed suicide, police officials said on Saturday.

Some officers told their superiors they were leaving, police officials said. Others worked for a while and then stopped showing up. Still others, for reasons not always clear, never made it in after the storm.

The absences come during a period of extraordinary stress for the New Orleans Police Department. For nearly a week, many of its 1,500 members have had to work around the clock, trying to cope with flooding, an overwhelming crush of refugees, looters and occasional snipers.

New York’s police and firefighters ran into the World Trade Center and stayed at Ground Zero for weeks. New Orleans Police ran away from their duties and complain they have been working for five days straight.

There are many reasons. Here is one… hands-on leadership under fire versus covering your ass.

-Bruce (GayPatriot) – gaypatriot2004@aol.com

Comments

  1. OK, so now that hundreds of millions in donations have been made (from us and others) and people have been housed and the National Guard has come in good order and time (3 days) and has been taking care of the people….I guess now is the time for the blame game. 😉

    Seriously Bruce, you know I agree with you – when the chips were down, Mayor Nagin was a disgrace. Maybe somebody needs to resign in FEMA or Homeland Security, but Nagin should resign for sure.

  3. I know you boys are only following signals from the White House and right wing media, but before you get too deep in your blame-shifting game, you might want to read this open letter to the President from the New Orleans Times-Picayune. Considering how NONE of you are there and these people ARE and considering how NONE of you are as expert in either New Orleans or the disaster as these people ARE, I’ll take their word on who’s to blame over yours.

    From the New Orleans Times-Picayune, Sunday, September 4th.

    http://www.nola.com/newslogs/tporleans/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_tporleans/archives/2005_09.html#076771

  4. You failed to mention the two officer suicides. And there are so tell-tale differences between 9/11 and Katrina; one was localized fire, the other was massive and widespread flooding. Still, there’s no question that N.O.’s mayor is incompetent, as is Louisiana’s governor, as is the president. Of the three, however, all at least were engaged, except the president. He was off golfing (he’s vacationed 22% of his Administration away). The moment those levees broke was a moment of truth. Anyone with an inkling of intuition could have anticipated what was going to happen, except GWB, whose Iraq policies have diverted funds away from infrastructure to a pointless, even catastrophic, war in Iraq.

    For five years, he’s given the uber-rich tax cuts, overspent billions more than even LBJ, cut domestic support for infrastructure (except that horrendous highway bill), invaded a soveriegn nation, created the worst deficit in memory, denied gays and lesbians their 14th Amendment rights, federalized education, ignored the agony of the hurricane victims, hired incompetents to run FEMA and Homeland Security and Defense, nominated a number of ultra-reactionaries to the federal courts, undermined science with his Unintelligent Design theory, and the list goes on and on.

    As genuine conservatives David Brooks and Andrew Sullivan have observed, THIS administration has FAILED the “conservative” agenda and the American people. He’s too incompetent to resign, even less so to govern, and so we’re stuck with this idiot for three more years. Fortunately, N.O. was the final straw. Neocon goverance has come to a screeching halt. The American people have had enough.

    I wouldn’t be surprised to see Democrats take over the House in 2006, maybe even the Senate. GWB has signed the death warrant of the “neoconservative” agenda, which frankly wasn’t “conservative” by any standard that I know of (reactionary religionism, maybe). Those of us who are of the Goldwater tradition have been so badly betrayed by this incompetent idiot that unfortunately he’ll taint the movement for decades to come.

  5. #4 – Stephen, your comments have easy refutations and people can keep posting them as long as you do.

    The “vacation” comment/angle is rubbish. You obviously have no idea what’s involved in a Presidential “vacation”. A Presidential “vacation” is when they temporarily reduce his working day from 14 hours a day, 6-7 days a week, to 9 hours a day (6-7 days a week). So that he doesn’t get pneumonia. And we now know that Bush was engaged before, during and after the catastrophe – begging and pleading with Nagin and the LA governor for them to do more of what they needed to do – or else to let Bush do it. They said no (i.e., they resisted federalization).

    “Anyone with an inkling of intuition could have anticipated what was going to happen”……Errrrr, Stephen, you didn’t.

    Bush tax cuts – gave enough relief to the middle and lower classes that ever since, the richest 1% have been paying the highest proportion of federal income tax revenues that they’ve ever paid.

    “Overspent billions more than LBJ”….On a nominal-dollar basis, well duh. It’s called inflation. Now, I do agree Bush has over-spent. I criticize him there; not defend him. But before you try to give it your “unique” toxic and hateful spin with the LBJ comment, let’s see some real-dollar comparisons with LBJ, OK?

    “Invaded a sovereign nation” – This has been debunked so many times, Stephen, that it’s astounding you still show your virtual “face” around here.

    God, you know, I’m tired of typing. I’ll need to get breakfast. Someone else can finish responding to the rest of your bile if they are so inclined. For now, let me leave you with one question: Does anything motivate you, Stephen, except pure hate? Please let us know. Please tell us something good or positive for once. Like Barry Goldwater would. You know, that old guy whom you misrepresent to people, in saying your are somehow his follower?

  9. Ya know, before Guiliani was elected into office NYC was much the same as the cityof NO today, a crime-ridden hellhole destined for disaster.
    Guilliani was elected mayor by a Democrat controlled populace because the people had grown tired of having to live under decades of lawless hellhole.

    I also recall that, until 9/11, NYC Leftist had proclaimed Guiliani to be a NaziHilter. Of course, due to the fact that Guillian provided the necessary leadership in order to maintain control during a disaster and provided security for all citizens including the Leftist’s “Guiliani is a Nazi” blattering butts.

    So, with Guiliani a hero, the Leftist’s needed somewhere to go so they they turned their factually vacuous vicious hate towards Bush.

    That said, the tax-cuts (lowering the marginal tax rate) benefitted a great many people EXCEPT for the uber-wealthy like Teresa Kerry Heinz, Ted Turner, George Soros and the like…their tax margin remained the same. Why is it that when people proclaim tax cuts for the rich they have no idea that it means lowering the tax margin for people who actually earn their own money?

  11. Maybe the Times-Picayune can explain why there are hundreds of buses underwater in New Orleans now — buses that could have been used to get people out of the city before the hurricane hit — when they claim that “lack of transportation” was the reason that they herded people into the Superdome, which they also admitted they’ve known was unsuitable as an emergency shelter for years, rather than evacuating them from the city.

  14. As an email at NRO points out, the left seems to be criticizin Bush for not acting like a dictator. If Bush were a dictator things would have gone smoother:

    – He wouldn’t have had to ASK Gov. Blanco to order a mandatory evacuation, he would have done it himself.

    – He wouldn’t have had to ASK Gov. Blanco to send in her National Guard, he would have done it himself.

    – He wouldn’t have to ASK Gov. Blanco to let the feds come in and run the show.

    – If Bush was a dictator he could have FORCED residents to evacuate at gunpoint. He would be giving orders to the Governor, not requests.

  17. Is increasing non-military, discretionary spending by 33% a “conservative” idea? Is a $250 Billion highway pork bill a “conservative” idea? Is invading a soveriegn, non-threatening nation a “conservative” idea? Is federalizing education a “conservative” idea? Is deficit spending a “conservative” idea? Is leaving a city defenseless a “conservative” idea? I won’t repeat the litany of why GWB is no “conservative.” He’s a “neoconservative” at best, and an incompetent one.

    Those who would defend these kinds of actions CANNOT be conservatives. The best appellation is “neoconservative,” a mix or reactionary religiosity and anti-realism. I don’t know how or why two gay dudes would want to support someone who’s clearly anti-gay and clearly anti-conservative. I think the conservative tradition has much to commend itself, but this neocon crap is internalized homophobia, externalized bigotry, and political incompetence. Don’t you guys have ANY principles? Only an extreme religiosity seems to justify someone’s outright betrayal of individual freedom and rights and a genuine “conservative” agenda. GWB isn’t even close to Barry Goldwater (or have you forgotten his harsh criticism of the religious reich and their cohorts?).

    I’ve cited several examples of why GWB is NOT a conservative. I DARE you to cite THREE examples of why he is!

  18. Stephen, good luck with #17 — because (as you summed up nicely) these are not conservatives here. Instead, these are cultists in the Church Of The GOP — gay men desperately trying to keep a place in a party that long ago made it clear they are to stay in the closet, be quiet at conventions or any public event, but get out and vote.

    Like all cultists, they don’t take well to any criticism of their Dear Leader and they are in anguish at this point that Americans have finally figured out what their church and Dear Leader are all about (or not about). And the recent withering critiques of the misleadership, mismanagement, and incompetence of Dear Leader on a host of issues — from his rush to War On Iraq, to his lack of planning for occupation of Iraq, to his foot dragging on stem cell research, to his attempt to write anti-gay discrimination into the Constitution, to his deceptive plan to destroy Social Security, to his enormous debt building, to his politicizing of Terri Schiavo’s death, to his mismanagement of the rescue of New Orleans – these critiques are simply driving them nuts.

    They are so immersed that they think the critics — including real conservatives like you, independents, moderates, and liberals such as myself — are all a bunch of no-good leftist/commies who are only out to bring down their precious Dear Leader. The cult is threatened! They must respond!

    Their sudden distaste for criticism of an American President is particularly interesting when you consider that these folks were (by their own admission on threads past) among the most persistent critics of President Clinton, who interestingly enough, was the anti-Bush (i.e., good leadership, good management, and high competence). Boy, did they love criticism then; so much so that they were willing to split the country apart with an impeachment and trial. And what for? A blow job (or as they would insist, “lying about a blow job” — as if they’d never). Their willingness to do that to bring down a leader from the other party has to go down (npi) as one of the all-time greatest acts of partisan and personal hypocrisy.

    So, that’s who we’re dealing with here.

  19. Reader (#4)

    Totally bizarre article.

    It actually praises the Mayor for not locking the doors to the city’s emergency shelter.

    Amazing.

    I mean, I’m glad he didn’t lock the doors to the emergency shelter. But that’s a rather low standard, given that he totally failed to carry out any of the rest of the official disaster plans, and spent the whole time standing in front of a microphone screaming for the President to come and do everything for him.

  22. LOL….in regards to Reader and Stephen, I find it amusing that neither of them can see fit to comment on the post below that shows clearly that the buses used to get poor Democrats to the polls on voting day couldn’t be used to get these same Democrats the hell out of the city when a massive hurricane threatened.

    After all, as the op-ed Reader cites from the Times-Picayune says, the city has known for seven years that the Superdome was not a suitable shelter, and especially not for many thousands of people. Why, then, did Nagin and Blanco tell people to go there, rather than sending around school buses and metro transit buses to pick up people and take them out of town? Better yet, why didn’t they take steps to ensure that the Superdome could be made an adequate shelter, such as stocking food items and water in it before this hurricane season, or even earlier?

  23. I mean, call me crazy, but I think for a critcism of any elected official under these circumstances to be legitimate, it should have to pass the following criteria.

    1. There has to be a direct cause-and-effect relationship between an elected official’s action or inaction and the resulting death, destruction, or suffering.

    2. The action or inaction must be within the elected official’s direct authority. (None of this, “The President is the Head of Government so everything is his fault” BS)

    3. An official ought not be held responsible for not taking an action that would have been imprudent or impractical based on the knowledge available at the time. (e.g. You can’t hold it against an official for not sending in relief planes that had no where to land.)

    The only Bush criticism that somewhat satisfies the criteria is his failure to publically insert himself into the situation sooner, which is more a political than a practical criticism. Many of the critcisms directed at Nagin, Blanco, and the local FEMA head do seem to meet those criteria.

  25. Let’s talk about GWB’s vacations. Nearly a quarter of his tenure has been spent on “vacations.” Or, to be more precise, “away from the White House.” I assume many of these occasions were “working” vacations.

    Yet, I assume when people voted for GWB it was for the office of President, not ex-governor of TX. The venue for that office is Washington, D.C. D.C. is the center of the federal government and the location of nearly all the executive offices. It’s where official governmental business is expected to be transacted. It’s where business, cultural, governmental, and other people come to do the “nation’s busines.” So why is the very head of state spending so much time away from “his desk?” Maybe, and I know this is a stretch, but maybe if GWB had been at his office, he might have had a clearer picture of what was going on in New Orleans and reacted sooner. Just maybe.

    Now everyone’s entitled to vacation, although I admit most Americans are lucky if they get two weeks off with pay. But isn’t 65 weeks of paid vacation to date just a tad bit excessive? Plus the diversion of moving everything from its central location in D.C. to some out-of-the-way “oasis” in the middle of Texas? Just the logistics of having to move from one locale to the other so often is damn expensive, not to mention a bit taxing on everyone other than GWB. Even Tony Blair has to fly an additional five hours just so the president can be at home.

    If GWB hates D.C. so much, why did he choose to run for president in the first place? If the current governor of TX spent all his time in New Orleans, or if the governor of CA spent all his time in HI, I suspect people might infer they weren’t doing their jobs. Given all the mismanagement, lack of leadership, and incompetence of GWB, isn’t it fair to assume he’s been away a bit too much from the decision-making process? Midland, TX is NOT any center of government, and since 90% of the time GWB is away from the White House is in TX, you’d think he didn’t know better. I am beginning to believe he doesn’t.

    Vacation is one thing. Unfortunately, GWB’s vacations have led to an alienated, disconnected, and disenfranchised president. Do we really need to wonder why things failed in New Orleans?

  28. Even though Reader and I come from two different political perspectives, I have to agree that Bill Clinton’s offense pales in comparison to GWB’s negligence. As many commentators have noted, it’s too bad that incompetence and negligence are not impeachable offenses. And even though GWB was near political death before this travesty, his agenda is now definitely on hold, probably for the rest of his term. Even Republicans are extremely anxious.

    Let’s get real people. GWB and his administration SHOULD have known about the levee situation well before this hurricane. It was a part of the federal registry, in major newspapers, and a part of the post-9/11 reports. And, unlike 9/11, they SHOULD and COULD have prepared for a “likely” eventuality. But GWB, Brown, and Chertoff were so out-to-lunch: besides cutting the Corps of Army Engineers’ budget in order to finance Iraq, they could have lined-up the very buses in the event they were needed to evacuate. Yes, Nagin bears some responsibility, but it was GWB who continued to play golf while a city literally drowned. How cold can anyone be? Especially after all that crap about Terri Shiavo? He could get back to Washington for one, brain-dead white woman, but wouldn’t lift a finger to help 50,000 mainly-black folk.

    BTW, before we rebuild New Orleans, I hope readers will peruse Tierney’s comments in today’s New York Times. It’s the first coherent and intelligent response (rather than reaction) to this horrible mess.

  29. Did someone just say Andrew Sullivan … is CONSERVATIVE? BWA HA HA HA HA HAAAA!!!! Have you READ him in the last year or two??

    According to Sullivan, it is all Bush’s fault, and we are not to question the local government’s response, however inept. NOT TO QUESTION. In fact, Bush is such a criminal and murderer that it will lead to a total political realignment.

    I’m telling you, steroids must have a major effect on the brain’s judgment centers!

  31. First: Regarding the Levees…

    VtK and ??Joe?or?Butch?? have discussed this at length, but if there was a cite somewhere below, I wasn’t able to find it, so here I present the important citation:

    http://www.usace.army.mil/PA-09-01.pdf (Warning: PDF) — a press release from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers three days ago.

    It is mandatory reading for anyone who wishes to discuss the levees without sounding like an idiot.

    The opening paragraph really says quite a bit:
    “ The breaches that have occurred on the levees surrounding New Orleans are located on the 17th Street Canal Levee and London Avenue Canal Levee. The 17th Street Canal Levees and London Avenue Canal Levees are completed segments of the Lake Ponchartrain and Vicinity Hurricane Protection Project. Although other portions of the Lake Ponchartrain project are pending, these two segments were complete, and no modifications or improvements to these segments were pending, proposed, or remain unfunded.”

    But the part about the distinction between “project capability figures” and “budget requests”, and the section on funding for New Orleans levees over the last fifteen years, also completely gut any reasonable assertion that funds for these projects were even “cut” in any meaningful sense, to begin with.

  32. Stephen (#17)-

    Don’t forget the gargantuan medicare prescription entitlement and the STEEL TARIFF (I can’t say that phrase in lower-case, yet.).

    For the record, though we disagree strongly on the war and on whether or not George W. Bush is the kind of person who smiles and dances at the thought of poor black people suffering and dying, I do agree with some of the challenges from the Goldwater-Right, that you at least hint at.

    Taking up your challenge, here are three (3) clear examples of conservative (in the Goldwater sense) positions strongly pressed by President Bush:

    (1) CAFTA — which squeaked by in a near-party-line vote (202 GOP + 15 Dem for, 27 GOP + 187 Dem + 1 against, in the House, 45 GOP + 10 Dem for, 33 Dem + 12 GOP against, in the Senate).

    Free Trade, in addition to being an obvious good, is clearly a traditional, Goldwater-Libertarian-Capitalist-Conservative position.

    (2) The Tax Cut.

    Duh.

    (I’d include the tiny, temporary revocation of the Estate Tax as number 3, but it was always packaged with the income tax cut, so that would really be cheating.)

    (3) Social Security Reform

    Of course, Barry Goldwater toyed with the idea of simply ending Social Security entirely. But, he was willing (despite Democratic campaign ads to the contrary) to simply strongly modify it. I think he’d be pleased with the idea of private accounts for the same fundamental philosophical reason that I am — it means that people have ownership of their retirement funds.

    The whole philosophy of the “ownership society” Bush talks about is pure Goldwater — and has nothing to do with Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell.

    .
    .
    .
    Two actual accomplishments and one proposal he’s invested significant political capital into (and which we’ll hear about endlessly in the 2006 Congressional races). All indisputably conservative, in the Barry Goldwater, non-Religious-Right, sense.

    Still waiting to hear why you think that George Bush doesn’t care when Americans die on his watch.

  33. GCB-

    Interesting article. Thanks. Few quotes of interest:

    “New Orleans officials told the Times-Picayune in July of this year that they would dedicate 64 city buses and 10 lift vans, as well as potentially school buses and Amtrak trains, to help people flee the city in the event of a serious hurricane threat.”
    And yet, just a month later they failed to do this.

    “New Orleans has 364 city buses in its fleet. Why officials did not plan to dedicate more buses to an evacuation effort was not explained“.
    Good question.

    And finally…

    “The day before Hurricane Katrina stormed ashore, New Orleans Mayer Ray Nagin, in his mandatory evacuation order, granted city officials the authority to “commandeer any private property, including, but not limited to… vehicles that may be used to transport people out the area.”

    Despite this self-mandate, the city failed to actually provide a way out for those trapped with few resources and limited options.”

    I couldn’t have said it better.

    Assuming you actually read the article you cited — I’m glad you’re finally on board with the rest of us.

    FEMA officials worked hard last year to make sure that New Orleans officials understood the problems with their disaster planning. New Orleans officials promised to do better, and drew up detailed plans to do so. When push came to shove, they simply failed to do as they had planned and promised.

  36. I’m not surprised that only ONE person DARED to respond to my challenge. He cites (1) CAFTA, (2) social security privitization, and (3) tax cuts as “conservative.”

    Exporting jobs to third-world nations may be a neocon value, but it’s not a conservative value. Or haven’t you noticed that many industries are relocating to either poorer countries to avoid minimum wage, health benefits, and tax liability. Maybe that’s a neocon value, but it’s not a conservative value.

    Like Clint, I once supported privitization of social security. Then it became clear that only those who were wealthy would “opt” out of the system, dismantling the whole concept of social insurance. If we could rely on private citizens to be spendthrifts and save, privitization makes sense. But human nature, being what it is, requires some discipline in order that millions don’t opt out of the only social net they know how to work with. So, instead of privitazation so the wealthy can become wealthier and the poorer become poorer, I’ve decided that at least a minimum of social insurance is necessary, to protect the have-nots from the haves. Instead of privitization, I support raising the maximum contributions to KEOGH and IRA accouts. Those who want to participate in their future retirement can, while those to deft to make decisions are at least covered for their stupidity. While “privitazation” if often touted as a “libertarian” and “conservative” idea, facts repeatedly demonstrate that people don’t have sufficient discipline to operate within a fiscal system. Sadly, that means all of us must protect THEIR asses, so that it’s not our ass they come after.

    Tax cuts are NEVER an end in themselves. Reduced spending MUST precede tax cuts, otherwise, has GWB has demonstrated, the budget goes whacky. When GWB increases non-military, discretionary spending by 33%, then SOMEONE must pay for it. For GWB, those people aren’t even born yet. A deficit of $8 trillion is unconsciounable. Yes, reduce spending so that taxes can be cut, but don’t increase spending and also cut taxes. If you did this with YOUR budget, you’d have to file bankruptcy, but thanks to GWB, after 1/1/06, you won’t even be able to do that. Hipocracy!

    So, I’m STILL waiting for THREE conservative values that GWB endorses. At best, Clint has shown what neocons advocate, but in deference to Clint, I think he’s being unrealistic. Even if I concede CAFTA, which I find very problematic, I can’t concede the others. Anyone whose studied economics, even free-market economics, knows that balanced budgets AND some social programs are necessary. It’s kind of like New Orleans. Who in the hell subsidized their flood insurance so that they’d build stupidly? The federal government, that’s who. Or who in the hell was going to rescue those who literally have no money? Some social insurance is necessary, because many people can’t or won’t participate in the capitalist system. For them, we really do need to be compassionate conservatives.

  37. Stephen-

    To paraphrase Lloyd Benson — I know Goldwater Conservatives. Goldwater Conservatives are my friends. You, sir, are no Goldwater Conservative.

    Good grief. You oppose free trade, you oppose tax cuts, you oppose ownership and investment in favor of nanny-state tranfer payments. You absurdly claim that taxing the poor makes them richer, while forcing them to invest makes them poorer. You claim to oppose “big government” — vaguely and in the abstract.

    In what sense, exactly, do you then consider yourself a Conservative?

    Aside from his opposition to the Religious Right (which he shared with such noted arch-conservatives as Noam Chomsky, Ted Kennedy, and V.I. Lenin) what positions of Barry Goldwater do you actually agree with? Or is his just a name you heard used once to ridicule pro-life politicians?

    Demanding a balanced budget does not make you a Goldwater Conservative — it makes you H. Ross Perot.

  39. What struck me as the most dramatic example of the difference between Giuliani and Nagin was watching the interviews on TV. Look:

    NYC post-/11 Man-on-the-Street: “We’ve got to put our shoulders to the wheel and get this place rebuilt”

    NO post-Katrina Man-on-the-Street: “How come the government hasn’t come in and fixed this for us?”

    Both of these generalizations are simply reflections of how the people of these two cities are led (or not led). We see here the vital importance of a strong executive. Ribbon-cuttings and Super Bowl parades are great, but mayors are elected for just this sort of situation. Sometimes they come through, sometimes they don’t.

  41. Here I am again…..I never thought I would be doing this on regular basis, but I am so disgusted with the city government of New Orleans that it delights me that people are waking up to the inept people that have been elected and hired in that city.
    Has anyone asked Mr Guiliani to come down and take charge!!!!!!

    Yesterday on CNN, Soledad O’Brien was near the French Quarter and there were cars all over, crushed of course. Excuse me, I thought the people in the Super Dome had no transportation. Why were there abandoned cars when they should have NOT been there but GONE!!!

  43. Hey guys – checking in from my road trip – I see Stephen is still at it, and hasn’t touched my question as to whether he can say anything good or positive, or is hatred all there is to him 🙂

    #17 – Three conservative values George Bush endorses – You know, I shouldn’t have to answer as I have criticize Bush in these pages for the fact that he so obviously isn’t a true Reaganite, small-government guy. And simultaneously, Stephen’s brand of irresponsible, hateful bile is so very far removed from the values of Barry Goldwater. Separately or together, both of those facts mean that whatever petty masturbatory game Stephen is after here truly makes no difference. But I do want Stephen to answer my question, and it’s easy to come up with 3 Goldwater Conservative value Bush still holds to, so I’ll play along:

    1) Anti-communism.

    2) Defending America from those who would destroy it.

    3) Removing sick, evil dictators who slaughter their own people (thereby giving up sovereignty), AND who attack America into the bargain (thereby provoking and requiring such removal).

    4) Personal responsibility. (Reform of Social Security and retirement accounts).

    5) Lower taxes.

    Oops, sorry, that was five.

    I could also argue “free trade” because of CAFTA, but will omit that because (a) a sixth isn’t needed, (b) Bush’s earlier bad performance on steel tariffs does undercut it.

    Re: my number (3)…I really hope you challenge it Stephen, so that we can detail, yet again, the specific ways in which Saddam attacked America, as Congress found when it passed the Iraq war enabling resolution in late 2002, a document you apparently still have not read, or a set of facts which you apparently just don’t care about.

    Stephen said: “Don’t you guys have ANY principles?”

    I have either stated or implied my principles in these pages many, many times. Freedom. Small government. Government coercion is wrong. So-called “compassionate conservatism” is bunk. Personal responsibility is right. Personal, positive and constructive action is right. America, if and to the extent it lives by such principles, is the greatest country on Earth and totally worth defending. The real enemies of freedom, and of gays, are the Islamo-fascists who murder the gays in their countries. Criticize Bush freely, but be constructive about it; not hateful, bilious, and irrational as Stephen is. Those are my principles.

    Stephen, I know you would love to claim those principles as being somehow your own, in pursuing your agenda of hate, but they so obviously aren’t yours.

    #34 – “Still waiting to hear why you think that George Bush doesn’t care when Americans die on his watch.” Yeah, Clint you’ll never get an honest answer – just as I didn’t 🙂

    #35 – Exactly. What hard-core liberals (especially the Usual Suspects here) don’t want to face up to is that New Orleans was (and with Nagin in office, still is) a very badly run place. Corrupt, demoralized cops. City leaders that say whatever sounds good, then do little or nothing of what their own disaster and evacuation plans say they are supposed to do. Governors who have oil revenues and who know perfectly well category-4/5 resistant levies require decades to construct, yet who do nothing to fund them.

  46. ND30, apparently peacewithrealism.org (This site contains articles and graphics presenting Israel’s case to the world and exposing myths and falsehoods that have unfairly tarnished Israel’s reputation) thinks Cindy Sheehan is bad for Israel and that Cindy Sheehan doesn’t like neo-conservatives.

    Does all or any opposition to neo-conservatives = Jew hater?

    What word do you use to describe what other people call neo-con? Are there any other common politcal labels that have hidden racist meanings?

  47. Stephen-

    Still waiting. I’ve named three strongly conservative positions that the President has taken. (That you think free trade and lower taxes are bad ideas doesn’t make them liberal ideas.)

    My challenge to you remains: Name three “conservative” principles, in addition to a balanced budget, which you personally subscribe to.

    While you’re at it, name three things you believe Bush has done that were right.

    (In passing — three things President Clinton did that were right: NAFTA, Welfare Reform, Camp David “peace process”)

    The point here is to distinguish political beliefs from partisanship. If your first question on being asked whether you support a policy is “who proposed it?” — you might just be a partisan hack.

  48. Stephen –

    I’ve cited several examples of why GWB is NOT a conservative. I DARE you to cite THREE examples of why he is!

    I don’t think that word means what you think it does.

  49. WOW, what vicious comments from some of our critics. I’m visiting some friends in the “reddest” of “red” states (Utah) and wonder if the “redness” of a state has a direct relationship to the kindness of its people as the people here are most friendly.

    But, for Stephen to call Andrew Sullivan a “true conservative” is to use the word conservative as if he had no meaning. Given how his views have changed, Sullivan can no more call himself a conservative than can Arianna Hufington.

  50. If Andrianna Sullington (Andrew Sullivan) is a true conservative, he’s the only one I know who supports massive tax increases, judicially-imposed social engineering, and thinks the Roman Catholic church should live according to his rules, and not vice versa.

  52. #49 – Interesting, Clint – My personal list of What President Clinton Did Right is close to yours – NAFTA, Welfare Reform, Balanced Budget – differing in the third item. Interestingly, he needed – and got – Republican help on all three.

    Clinton obviously tried very hard on the Mideast peace thing; but I believe his efforts were ultimately bad for peace, for the U.S. (what eventually became known as the War on Terror) and for Israel, because Arafat was an evil man who was merely “playing” Clinton for concessions, a basic flaw. GW Bush had a better idea: recognizing Arafat as evil and sidelining him.

    Incidentally – Let’s make that Yet Another Conservative Idea That Bush Supports – namely, supporting Israel against her enemies. It used to be a bipartisan idea, of course, but isn’t any longer (with the Democrats increasingly being the party of Michael Moore, ugly “neo-con conspiracy theorists” such as Mother Sheehan and our own Stephen, etc.).

  53. #48 – The thinkers and policy makers usually identified as “neo-con” are surprisingly Jewish (perhaps as much as 50%), and uniformly pro-Israel. Nine times out of ten, if you scratch a person who eagerly deploys “neo-con” as a pejorative term, you will find a person who hates Israel, thinks Israel is the cause of Palestinian terrorism and suffering (rather than the Palestinian terrorists), and believes Israel is secretly running U.S. foreign policy. The latter being a thinly veiled classic of anti-Semitism, “Dirty Joooz are secretly running the world”.

    So yeah, the deployment of “neo-con” as a pejorative is being understood more and more often as code for Israel-hating and perhaps Jew-hating. Kind of like the phrase “law and order” was once believed (rightly or wrongly) to be code for white racism.

    Of course, not everyone who deploys “neo-con” is automatically an Israel-hater, or a Jew-hater. I said 9 out of 10. You can enlighten us as to whether you are part of the 9, or the remaining 1.

  55. Joe-

    In my opinion, President Bush’s absolute relegation of Arafat to the sidelines, was really made possible by Barak’s concessions at Camp David. It was no longer possible for any serious person to suggest that Arafat would ever agree to a two-state solution.

    Whether or not this was clear to the American electorate, it was crystal clear to the Israeli one — setting up Sharon’s ascendancy.

    I’m not saying any of this was what President Clinton intended — but it was worth a try, just in case Arafat really had mellowed in his old age.

  57. All of you are full of shit……comparing the responses of the mayor of New York and the mayor of New Orleans.
    Give me a break, this is all about how people were suffering and couldn’t get help when it was desperately needed.

  58. Give me a break, this is all about how people were suffering and couldn’t get help when it was desperately needed.

    So why isn’t it reasonable to ask why Giuliani was able to get help to those who desperately needed it, while Nagin wasn’t?

    BTW, why is Rudy wearing lavender headphones?

  59. Mais oui, mon Chere. Est exactment “what it’s all about.”

    Re: “completement de la merde” — je sais que vous etes, mais ce qui suis moi?

    (I’ll pardon your French, if you’ll pardon mine.)

  60. Funny, it’s your “patriotic duty” to question Bush, but don’t you DARE question the “Democrats” who dropped the ball.

    Isn’t it interesting how Bush supposedly hates blacks and wants them to die, but the “Democrats” in Louisiana did even less?

  61. Regarding #7:

    The excuse? No excuse. In 1995, there was significant focus on making sure New Orleans stayed above water. There was significant focus on the importance of preserving the wetlands because they help when keep the flooding from happening. In 2003, all of that focus was lost. Funding was cut. Even if the focus wouldn’t have been enough to save New Orleans, isn’t focusing on it better than ignoring it altogether. Or prioritizing the safety and well being of several hundreds of thousands of Americans below that of creating even more governmental bureaucracy?

  62. Say, where’s James Lee Witt’s Emergency Management degree? How exactly does serving as county judge qualify you to run FEMA?

    #60 If you look closely, Rudy doesn’t have earmuffs. If I’m right, that’s a 3M Half-face respirator with 3M P100 particulate filters.

  64. #59 – Yeah – Because there’s really no comparison between them, is there? A contrast beyond “night and day”. The doer (Guiliani) vs. the self-conscious incompetent trying to divert attention from his contributory negligence (Nagin).

    #62 – Exactly. 🙁

    #63 – So, because Congress didn’t approve the full amount of funding somebody requested in 2003, what happened – wetlands instantly just vanished? Because not enough people believed anymore? Britton, #63 is a poor quality effort even for you.

    The head of the levee engineering project was on the radio the other day – he said it takes at least a decade to build a levee withstanding a cat 4/5, and even if Congress approved a billion dollars, nothing would have happened. Just some facts to counter the new myths.

  69. This was posted on an older cold thread and it seemed like it should be read by more people. I can’t believe what overly expectant people lived lin NO. How unAmerican%.
    ================================
    Hello all
    Yes I was in the french Quarter of New Orleans. I just got out on Friday night
    we had to hot wire a Friends truck sifen gas and run like hell .We had fire extinguishers and mace at the back of the truck cuz people were trying to high Jack our truck so they could get out.I cannot tell you with words the hell the city was like , on Thursday we were on the street talking to a Friend and just shooting the bull about where we were all from and stuff , i opened his beer for him and after a while we all separated our separate ways, that night after watching a guy with a hatchet break in to my neighbors House and a 2 hour full auto gun fight a block away , then the refinery blew up lighting the sky and shaking the house I finally went to sleep for a second when i awoke we went over to my Friends and found that in the night he was so dehydrated that he died in the night we had to push his body into the street, the cops came up and were poking him with a stick and saying ” Lets just drop him of in someone Else’s precinct ” .
    Just to give you a idea that’s just one instance of the stuff that happened . as of Friday when we left there was NO help, fema, red cross, water, gas, food, electricity, and not even a cop with a bull horn letting us know what was going on or being done, we even had the cops put M-60’s to our head cuz we aperently whent down the wrong street.
    When major negen said on Sunday ” LEAVE THE CITY ” it was only after he closed the bus station and the airport leaving us no way out, then after the storm the cops ( who were the ones opening up the stores to lute and were in those stores taking stuff too ) they siphoned all the gas right out of all the cars so if we did have a car to leave we were still screwed!
    I don’t know how this will effect us as a country but i was there and they Fucked every one in the city more than the storm its self !
    well that all said I’m OK and out I’m in Baton Rough for now trying to figure out were to go and what to do. all will work out I’m sure . If you know of a yacht job or a restaurant that needs a chef let me know
    take care all and don’t let these bastard government forget what they’ve done and all the people, Friends, family, brothers, sisters, mothers and Fathers that died because of there inability to act at all !!

    Darin
    Yachtprofood@yahoo.com

    Comment by Darin — September 6, 2005 @ 12:26 am – September 6, 2005
    ===================
    And reposted more currently
    by

  71. #63 questions JL Witt’s qualification to run FEMA with this:

    “Say, where’s James Lee Witt’s Emergency Management degree? How exactly does serving as county judge qualify you to run FEMA?”

    What a sadly uninformed comment that was!

    #63 apparently doesn’t know that James Lee Witt has already proved his FEMA bonafides by actually running the agency to great acolade for 8 years. Here are his credentials:

    –25 years of disaster management experience, culminating in his appointment as the Director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, where he served from 1993-2001.

    –Credited with turning FEMA from an unsuccessful bureaucratic agency to an internationally lauded all-hazards disaster management agency.

    –Coordinated federal disaster relief, including the response and recovery activities of 28 federal agencies and departments, the American Red Cross and other voluntary agencies. He also oversaw the National Flood Insurance Program, the U.S. Fire Administration and other pro-active mitigation activities that reduce loss of life and property from all types of hazards.

    –Directed 2,500 employees located in Washington, DC and 10 regional offices.

    –From 1993 to 2000, Mr. Witt oversaw more than 350 disasters. More importantly, he was responsible for response and recovery operations for six of the ten most devastating disasters of all time, including the most costly flood disaster in the nation’s history, the most costly earthquake, and a dozen damaging hurricanes.

    And the commenter (#63) has his own blog???

  73. Chandler-

    #70: The guy was dehydrated, had no water, and thought that drinking beer would be a good idea?
    I wonder if the Darwin Awards are accepting nominations?
    Comment by Clint
    ======================
    Clit,
    Don’t ask me. He is the one that poseted directly at this forsaken blog. I only copied it and moved it up a thread. So if you want to call a survivor who posted here names, you can do it to his face. Not like your regular standard operating proceedure.

  74. Chandler-

    I respect everyone’s right to die with dignity.

    But at the same time I reserve the right to hold out those who kill themselves stupidly as teaching examples for the rest of us.

  75. I respect everyone’s right to die with dignity.
    But at the same time I reserve the right to hold out those who kill themselves stupidly as teaching examples for the rest of us.
    Comment by Clint
    ====================
    Don’t tell me, tell Darin, if he’s still alive.
    I just loves me all this compassion.