Remember Mayor Nagin’s hyperbolic statements that the MSM ate up in the first hours of his Katrina-induced coma?
PAULA ZAHN, CNN: We are just now starting to get a clear picture of the massive disaster caused by Hurricane Katrina. But even as we speak a much grimmer task is also underway: Recovering bodies of the victims. New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin now says as many as 10,000 people may have died in that storm or its aftermath.
But reality bites Nagin’s apocolyptic tantrum….. La. Search for Katrina Dead Ends at 964
FEMA did nearly 23,000 secondary searches in New Orleans with about a dozen teams.
As of Monday, the Katrina death toll in Louisiana stood at 964.
Maybe he meant that there were 10,000 city buses dead in the water?
-Bruce (GayPatriot)
I believe that when the WTC was hit, the initial possible dead was stated at 32,000. It was a figure based on the total working occupancy of the buildings. It was later revised and revised again. That is the nature of catastrophic events.
I recall hearing on the radio that the initial estimate was 50-60k in the WTC attack –without adding in the deaths in DC and eastern PA. And the early estimates on the tsunami were 250,000 if I recall correctly.
I don’t understand the interest in pointing out what the death toll was versus what Nagin –clearly overwhelmed by the experience– offered the press in the early hours of the disaster…. is it more “gotcha games” on the failure to employ buses, assess blame, minimize the scope of disaster or impune the press? I guess all three. To what end?
Bad post Bruce. You can do better.
The WTC estimates were revised by day’s end. Nagin continued this, and other myths, for days and weeks after the fact.
What’s more atrocious than that was the sick liberal bastards even went so far as to politicize the body recovery.
#2
Yeah, Nagin was overwhelmed all right. Overwhelmed by irresponsibility, stubbornness and bad math for the week it took him to come off that number. 9/11? Guliani wouldn’t speculate right away as I remember…apples & oranges anyway – 70K was from unelected talking heads…
OMG, the left is the Milton Bradley of the eternal “gotcha game”. How ’bout we let no obvious WMD go? How about Joe McCarthy then? I didn’t think so. Sigh…to what end?…to what end?
Who would you rather have as Mayor of NO if you and your family resided there pre-Katrina? Ray Nagin or Mike Brown?
Ray Nagin or Charlie Brown?
Ray Nagin is an incompetent, corrupt stooge who, without the Federal and State oversight, would be the Robert Mugabee of the Bayou. He is undoubtedly responsible for a large percentage of those dead and injured (and is probably responsible for their sorry state to begin with).
But he’s your incompetent, corrupt stooge! So give it up for Ray!!! (Unless your the MSM – then there’s nothing to see here folks, move along…move along…)
Good post!
It was exaggerations like this, and the media’s obsession with them, that helped mold the public’s judgment of how the Bush Administration handled Katrina. While the federal response was slow, the perception was far worse than the reality.
Every state or community disaster preparedness plan that I am aware of states clearly that the federal response will take time and that responsibility rests with local first responders for 24-48 hours.
#2 Michigan Matt,
Nice try….and thank you but as you can see….you will get nowhere, fast, if you go against this group.
Welcome to our world. I give you credit, however. Keep it up and they will turn on you and start calling you names, thought. Fair warning, Matt.
In reality, I can’t find where the federal response was really that slow.
#2 & #7
Who put out those estimates though?
TGC,
It’s called “panic”. That was what they were estimating for the 2-3 days during the WTC attack. No official confirmation. Just raw numbers and the worst fears.
#10
Exactly.
Then you have Mayor Ray “Schoolbus” Nagin making pronouncements for days that the deathtoll would be in the tens of thousands and the media ran with it.
#6 Jack,
Exaggeration?….Perception worse than the reality? 24-48 hours??
Jebus, Jack.
No way to argue that kind of presentation of facts, now…is there?
Your point?
TGC,
The people in charge guesstimate the damage. Nothing nefarious about it. It’s when things are WORSE and they make it seem LESS is when I’m concerned….like….ohhhh, let me see….can we think of anything that might fit ? 🙂
The point is that it wasn’t the press looking up to find out how many people worked in the trade towers and publishing those numbers, it was the mayor. People have every right to believe that numbers passed on by someone in authority have some basis or else the person in authority would say that numbers weren’t available, that we don’t know, that we are going to prepare for the worst and hope for the best, take the opportunity to provide direction and leadership.
I don’t know that’s it’s useful to pile on Nagin. It almost feels like kicking a puppy, you know. Maybe I shouldn’t be a critical as I’ve been either, the man is a politician, probably never had to exhibit leadership principles in his life. Normally that doesn’t matter.
And for what it’s worth, I’ve never heard 24-48 hours as the time after a disaster that people should expect to be on their own. All I’ve ever heard is at least three days or longer.
Considering the size of the area that was flooded, and early estimate of 10,000 really isn’t that unreasonable. Taking into account that there was no way to tell how many people stayed and how many had left. And 964 casualties from a Hurricane is nothing to toss off as insignificant. That’s the largest death toll we have had from a natural disaster in many, many, years in the United States.
Say Monty,
Do tell me how much experience you have with Emergency Management wher e you can tell me I don’t know what the hell I’m talking about.
Also, the person in charge making the guesstimate was pretending to be in charge from as far away as he possibly could.
Plus, considering that there have been larger areas that have been flooded in this country with far less deathtoll. How many people died when James Witt sat on his ass after three weeks of flooding post hurricane Floyed? How many people died in Houston after T.S. Allison in 2001? I worked through two floods in Houston prior to Allison that covered more area with deeper water with a lot lower death toll than Katrina and never heard any “guesstimations” anywhere near 10,000. And that was by officials who weren’t in any hurry to get themselves out of Dodge.
Other than that, please tell me your experiences in Emergency Management, since you clearly have all the answers and clearly know how it all works.
There were buses used to evacuate people, those school buses have been argued over and over again, but WAIT. This site still can’t seem to get over those buses. Damn drama queens!
1. Buses were used in the evacuation.
2. Not everybody can drive a bus
3. Minimum wage workers just don’t work well in an emergency, so the regular bus drivers wouldn’t have worked.
4. You can’t give minimum wage employees a couple hundred for gas and tell them to be safe. And then say, “Go somewhere safe, we don’t know where. Don’t leave the state until we give you authorization, although all you have is a crappy CB and we probably won’t be able to reach you.”
Just think about it logically, and you’ll see.
The Federal response(nothing to do with the buses) was slow because Blanco and Nagin said if the hurricane hits that they are not equipped to handle the aftermath. The federal government waited a few days. (Remember the post where GP said the process of calling for a state of emergency? Yeah, well, that post was deleted when someone posted a link to it! Ouch!!)
Still can’t get over those buses sitting there, can you? There were lots of buses in Houston too, could’ve gotten people out of Beaumont and saved the streets from taking a 4 hour drive into a 23 hour drive. People’s cars were stolen. Others lost their pets in the heat. Yes, I was there.
Wow, you know, Gay Conservatives are like, the parents in the gay house because: They always argue the same thing, no matter how disproven they are, delete their posts when proven wrong, because they don’t know the facts, and whine whine whine. Yeah, yeah. I’d say they’re toddlers like everyone else in the gay house.
Joey, you’ll just fall all over yourself to try to cover the ass of incompetent liberals, won’t you. I’ve not seen anybody try to spread BS like that. Nagin and Blanco screwed the pooch. We know it. You know it. They know it.
We’ll give you one of those flower shaped cookies just for trying though.
Nice attempt at spin, Joey.
3. Minimum wage workers just don’t work well in an emergency, so the regular bus drivers wouldn’t have worked.
4. You can’t give minimum wage employees a couple hundred for gas and tell them to be safe. And then say, “Go somewhere safe, we don’t know where. Don’t leave the state until we give you authorization, although all you have is a crappy CB and we probably won’t be able to reach you.”
Problem is, Joey, these same bus drivers are the ones who ferry kids in the New Orleans school district every single school day.
You mean that the liberal-Democrat-run school district and city of New Orleans deliberately put CHILDREN in the hands of people who are incapable, untrustworthy, and can’t handle emergencies, in buses that lack proper communications equipment?
I admire your willingness to throw people under the bus, figuratively, and make inane statements in defense of your Democratic puppet masters, Joey. However, you should realize that Democrat spin only works on the ignorant who don’t realize you’re claiming that the same drivers you trust to carry children every day are incompetent.
GP, Nagin’s been outed as incompetent mayor here and elsewhere. I don’t disagree with that assessment –he might have been adequate for tourism promotion before HK, he was in water waaay over his head on this disaster. He still is: suggesting residents return before conditions are safe and warrant re-occupation of some areas.
He’s no Rudi. Granted, few leaders are; that’s what sets Rudi apart from average officials. And Nagin isn’t even average –he ought to be recalled by NO residents.
My point was with you revisiting the issue — to what end do you revisit it? Was the MSM lazy in its reporting? We know that. Do you think Nagin inflated those numbers to keep the camera on him? Or, could it be, he was simply incompetent and was shooting from the hip without contemplating the untoward consequence of his estimating exercise –and why aren’t we being critical of the local school superintendent for not using those buses? or the area’s public transport system? Did they adequately employ/deploy local assets? And what about suburban buses? It’s not just the “nagging Nagin” buses.
964 people… those are the dead ones, Bruce. Body bags filled, family members aware. How about the ones we don’t know about yet… and may show up after people return in earnest or may never be counted for but remain “missing”?
964 isn’t a minimal number; it’s horrific. In our area, it’d be like 3 jets crashing together at DTW. 964, Bruce. From a weather related disaster for chris’sakes! When loading people up in buses and driving 12 hours could have saved most… damn. I know, that’s IF they could have been convinced to leave.
What is gained by pointing out the number is “only” 964 –FTR, you didn’t use that word but I read it as implied in your post. I know I heard the implication in the voices of radio commentators on the right –frankly, it plays into the impression that the right doesn’t give a damn about 964 dead. For me it’s like what some of the apologists and supporters of the WOT tried to do with US troop deaths recently. (It might be an imperfect parallel: when conservatives note that the American troop deaths in Iraq are less than troop deaths via accidents in peace time. As if to try to explain away the loss of troops –damn, that’ll win us friends in the middle.)
Nagin was wrong on a lot. Before and after the storm. And so was most of the MSM in reporting on the disaster within the first 3-5 days after. But this is one issue we won’t gain any advantage in the marketplace of ideas by pointing out reality vs. speculation. I hate to say this, but for me it appears spiteful and petty –and I bet other Americans have that impression, too.
#7 Monty, thanks but I don’t want you as a cheerleader. I find the voices and thoughts here, when not provoked, are fair, reasonable, fresh and informed –something the liberal commentators over at MikeR, JohnA, theDKos, or Outsports could profit by emulating. Oh, and you too.
My point was with you revisiting the issue — to what end do you revisit it?
What’s the point of the liberal douchebags and their willing accomplices in the “MSM” constantly pointing the finger squarely at Bush when we know it’s not true?
And nobody is minimizing anything, except for the vacuous liberals who ain’t got shit to run on. I’ll remind you that the liberals are using the deaths in Iraq as an indicator that we’re losing which we, as a country, have never done. They’re also exploiting hurricane victims for political points because they have NOTHING else. That’s the kind of scum sucking creatures they are.
The lying, hypocritical toadies will be along shortly trying to prove otherwise, but they’ve already clearly shown all of us that they ain’t got shit. And yes, I’m being as nice as I possibly can right now.
What’s more atrocious than that was the sick liberal bastards even went so far as to politicize the body recovery.
That’s an interesting statement. Wasn’t it here just a few months ago when Bruce decided we all needed a reminder about 9/11 by posting a link to video of the footage including people jumping to their death out of the towers?
Convenient ethics I guess.
Puddintame.
A better question, Matt, would be “why won’t liberals accept responsibility for that abject failures instead of pointing fingers at Republicans while hoping like hell that you won’t notice?”
#23
Yep. You’re right, Cow. Liberals are always the same. Same song, and they can’t even come up with a second verse.
Way off the mark. Nice try to spin there. Better lay down before you fall down.
That’s an interesting statement. Wasn’t it here just a few months ago when Bruce decided we all needed a reminder about 9/11 by posting a link to video of the footage including people jumping to their death out of the towers?
There is a rather stark difference between the two.
The 9/11 coverage was filmed in an impromptu fashion with the intent being the recording of news. Nobody was standing there thinking, “This will make a great propaganda piece that we can use to push our agenda.”
In contrast, the DNC and their paid pushers like Moore were planning to film the body recovery with the express intent of using it as political propaganda, just as they demand the “right” to film coffins returning.
#24 TGC, you’re partly right. That’s a fair question -but I don’t think it’s better than quizzing QP on the unseemly use of Nagin’s wild estimate in a “gotcha moment” for Nagin, the MSM, and others. Your other question is fair.
Off topic, but….
I think lots of commentators –professional and amatuers alike– have asked that of the LibLeft as it turns into a growing chorus of “No” –no new ideas, no new leaders. I still have trouble finding a single liberal in michigan who accepts that the welfare system prior to RR, Engler and welfare reform was corrupting, inefficient, and bad for the poor. And that welfare reform was good. They won’t; it’s a repudiation of a core principle about govt’s effective role in shaping society.
Like most of us, LibLefties don’t like to say they were wrong, accept responsibility for wasteful spending, and constructively seek reform or positive action.
It’s why NO is the way it is. The crime wasn’t fed responses… it was decades of corrupt leadership equal to Detroit’s under Young-Archer-Kilpatrick.
No, 27, you’re getting your “Qs” and “Gs” mixed up.
thanks for the correction -it wasn’t freudian
Heh..heh…heh…you sure?? LMAO I see you are quite stimulated. 🙂
BTW….You’re welcome for the support against the usual Repubs. I’m here if you should need me. Stray too far and they will eat you alive. 🙂
#30
Only if you stray too far from reality and honesty. For an example, look at GayCow’s post. He’s not even trying to be in the same ballpark.
Matt,
I’ll take the time to say hi and welcome you to the blog. Yes, I’ve found for the most part the people here are pretty civil.
That said you’re from Michigan, going to be hard for this Buckeye to not nag @ you.