Actually, Jeremy, I think you’ve mischaracterized us. It’s not that V the K and I think we’re inferior to straight people; it’s just that we don’t think we’re superior to them. That’s why we have such qualms about disregarding their concerns and demanding that we receive special treatment that we wouldn’t allow to others.

If we can’t rid of DADT, or we have to (unnecessarily IMO) raise the bar for equality by worrying about further separating facilities, then maybe the policy should be amended to DADT for everyone. In other words, NO ONE can discuss their sexuality, their families (except about Mom and Dad, the siblings, and the nieces and nephews), who’ve they had or would like to have sex with, etc.

Or, in other words, we require the same level of decorum of the armed forces that we do other workplaces.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner.

The point has been made that if a person has psychological issues because they can’t discuss their family and shouldn’t be in the military. Then I would also make the argument that personnel who have issues of sharing sleeping quarters with someone of same-sex attraction, then I don’t think they should be in the military either.

Anyway, other countries have done it, and it stuns me that the country with the best military in the world, and the best democracy in the world, can’t have gays openly serve in the military.

In the meantime, there are ways that gays can answer questions regarding their family, significant other, attraction to the opposite sex, etc. I’ve had to do it for many years. But I find out later, that everyone was suspicious and speculated, etc.

If we can’t rid of DADT, or we have to (unnecessarily IMO) raise the bar for equality by worrying about further separating facilities, then maybe the policy should be amended to DADT for everyone. In other words, NO ONE can discuss their sexuality, their families (except about Mom and Dad, the siblings, and the nieces and nephews), who’ve they had or would like to have sex with, etc.

There’s no reason he has to do any of that now. The “don’t tell” part of the equation exempts him from having to do any of that.

This whole, “Oh, I just have to tell people that I’m gay or I’m psychologically crippled” thing just seems really drama queenish.

What’s wrong is that all answers would still lead to two conclusions – evading and bringing more suspicion on yourself, or lying and pretending to be straight.

I guess someone could say they are saving themselves until marriage, and don’t want to disrespect women by talking about their bodies.

For God’s sake, Carl, what is wrong with saying:

– “I don’t know how good she is in bed; I’ve never slept with her.”

– “Well, she’s kind of tall, brown haired, green eyes…..”

– “Sure, she’s got lots of friends. Want to meet one?”

Sheesh, this isn’t difficult.

No, I don’t, but I think that the gay soldier would at least be able to say, “I’m gay,” and end of discussion. He would not have to lie, or play games, or feel that he needed to prove his heterosexuality.

-So in short, I can say “Yes, I know some hot girls” without having to lie, pretend, or do anything else. What’s your point? -

My point was that if you get to a place where you have to talk about the hot girls you know, then they will ask about your involvement with them.

Soldier #1: Yes, I know hot girls.
Soldier #2 then asks some kind of question about how good they are in bed, or about their physical attributes, or if they have a friend.

Now soldier #1 can lie and say they’re good in bed, or he can go on about their sex appeal and mislead the other soldier into thinking he’s straight, or he can try to fix up the other soldier and as a result bring these female friends into the equation and has to worry they might let people know that he’s gay.

All of this goes back to gay men either staying quiet and causing people to suspect them, or feeling that they have to lie and pretend they are straight.

“Single? Know any hot girls?”

Actually, Carl, the fact that I’m a gay man has never prevented me from knowing any hot girls, being good friends with them, or even setting them up on dates with my straight friends. It doesn’t prevent me from looking at, comparing the virtues of, or flirting with hot girls. It doesn’t even prevent me from dancing with them.

All it precludes me from doing is sleeping with them, and I quite honestly worry about people who need to publicize how many women they’re fucking (or men, for that matter).

So in short, I can say “Yes, I know some hot girls” without having to lie, pretend, or do anything else. What’s your point?

I’m a nuts-and-bolts kind of guy. I am interested in how things play out in the real world, not in symbolic abstractions.

“Do you have a family?” can be answered by the following:

– “Nope, I’m single.”

– “Nope, it’s just me and Mom and Dad”-

And then they say:

“Single? Know any hot girls?”

and if you don’t give the right answer, they will probably ask again and again, and wonder why you don’t just say, “Yes”. Then the tension and pressure will build. If you say, “just me and Mom and Dad”, then they will probably be even more convinced that someone is gay.

-But it goes to show that the rules can be just as tough on heterosexuals.-

He can tell people he was married. He can tell people about his feelings, even if he can’t sleep around with other women while he is being divorced. If he’s distracted, then the other soldiers will know why. If he could never tell anyone he was getting a divorce, then I could compare the situation to DADT.

It’s like, if some asks me what I did last night and I said “Watched TV” instead of “Watched ‘Battlestar Galactica’” am I repressing the part of myself that likes Sci-Fi? Do I owe everybody who asks a thorough explanation of my personal life?

Of course they ASK you. It’s how you answer.

For instance:

“Do you have a family?” can be answered by the following:

– “Nope, I’m single.”

– “Nope, it’s just me and Mom and Dad”

Notice that there is no need to insert “because I’m GAY! GAY! GAY!” into either one of those to answer the question. Nor do you have to deny that you’re gay, or claim that you’re straight, to do it.

When you come back with, “But they’ll speculate…” well, yeah, they will. But if they want to keep their jobs, they’ll keep their mouths shut, because making disparaging remarks or rumors about another person’s sexuality publicly is a policy violation as well. If SLDN wants a cause to get behind, pushing for better enforcement of what is laid out in DADT would be a good one.

Problem with the former, Carl, is that the military is a work AND communal living situation. Thus, the latter is the risk that you take and requirement that you have for choosing to join it.

Moreover, what exactly does one mean by “pressured to prove you are straight”? If the military is tolerating a culture where men are required to have sex with women or public displays with women to prove themselves, it needs to be brought to the fore, and one would think they’d be quick to do that, what with all the sexual harassment lawsuits they’ve had.