And to be honest, Pat, a lot of us already do.

The bulk of the work of “gay rights” is not done by impassioned speeches at a microphone, or by celebrity appearances, or by media portrayals. It’s done in the day to day grind of work, life, and home with other people. Sharon Stone, bless her heart, as I blogged, pointed this out clearly — that we need to be the “local heroes” who do what’s right.

This is antithetical to HRC and others, who operate with an almost paranoid view of normal people, and who have been far too successful in spreading the propaganda that we need “people in power” to effect change. To which I say, no…..you need to go to the people who PUT people in power to effect change.

It is a conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

As for people caring about whether or not a celebrity or politician is gay, you may be right about that. My experience has been the opposite. Any time I have a conversation with a straight person, and the subject comes up, they are interested to hear about it. But they are also questioning it at the same time, because they’ve never heard of it from TV news, or the newspapers. So one way or another, there isn’t the exposure, and everyone goes on thinking that the gay community is the way the HRC says it is. Ironically, I think the religious conservatives, even the ones that know better, like it that way.

Oh, it’s out there. It’s just that most Americans could care less about it. What they also don’t understand is how a community that spends so much time screaming, “sexual orientation is irrelevant, right to privacy” can expend so much time, effort, and money on sneaking around and trying to expose the sexual orientation of others.

So most Americans think that except for a couple of renegade Republicans, all gays are drag queens, gym bunnies, HRC loudmouths, or good boy closet cases who will stay nice and quiet and not disrupt anyone’s comfort zone by having the temerity to ask for rights deserved. What I don’t understand is why this exposure should be contingent on HRC’s leadership’s behavior and/or waiting for HRC to want gay moderates/conservatives.

Because, Pat, that is what HRC has told everyone gays are, and anyone who falls outside those fences isn’t. Remember? You can’t be gay and vote Republican. You can’t be gay and support restrictions on abortion. You can’t be gay and not support Lambda trying to get people off for soliciting sex in public restrooms. You can’t be gay and blame someone other than the drug companies marketing Viagra for the spread of AIDS. And, as I am fond of saying, anyone who says otherwise is a “self-loathing Jewish Nazi”, for whom it is perfectly legitimate for gay groups and their attack dogs to harass their friends, their bosses, and thier families, as well as try to get them fired from their jobs.

Furthermore, it is more than obvious that HRC, et al., despite their pleas for outreach, have no intention of backing it up with tangible action or any moderation in THEIR viewpoints whatsoever. For instance, at the same time they are asking gay moderates and conservatives to come out and show how “mainstream” gays are, they are screaming that gays must oppose Samuel Alito’s confirmation because he may not support the dubious “right” to unlimited infanticide or their weird argument that, while an American father doesn’t have the legal right to prevent his unborn child, even if he’s married to the woman, from being aborted, an American judge should rule that the Chinese one who isn’t married to the woman involved does.

Frankly put, gay groups like HRC are like cults — they are led by cynical manipulators who prey on the fears and desires of other people to advance themselves. Like most cults, what will have to happen for them to finally be broken is enough stupid decisions that it triggers an immense internal rebellion or them killing themselves off.

In short, they have no desire to moderate their views, and I have no desire to see them do it when their failure to do so will lead to their demise.

Absolutely. There is certainly a time and a place for some friction, but overall keeping the debate rational and free of name calling, bomb throwing, and attacks will get one a lot closer to goals without energizing the other side. Making a rational case requires a lot more patience, but in the end I think it garners stronger results.

I would not go that far …

Name Callers, Attack Dogs, etc. what I would call frictional processes. Recalling the Second Law of Thermodynamics, friction is wasted energy (I’ll eliminate the explanation of the 2nd law for brevity Friction also causes a lot of damage. A lot of these groups seem to ‘turn-off’ rational people who see the confrontation in these groups and not the discussion of rights, what is best for everyone, etc.

Taking a less frictional approach (i.e. rational discussion, showing how your goals in life are everyone’s goals, etc), events may be slower, but there is less wasted energy and less damage overall.

But if it weren’t for the namecallers, the attack dogs, and the pedophile drug-using abortion-pushing militant atheists, no gay people would have any rights!

Um, if I’m any example, we’re not exactly hiding.

And even if we were, we can think of one excellent reason why; HRC and other gay groups have made it clear that the “acceptable” gays are pedophile drug-using abortion-pushing militant atheists, and that WE are “self-loathing Jewish Nazis”, for whom it is perfectly legitimate for gay groups and their attack dogs to harass our friends, our bosses, and our families, as well as try to get us fired from our jobs.

The conditions are simple. If they want us around, purge the namecallers, the attack dogs, and the pedophile drug-using abortion-pushing militant atheists. But as long as they’re there, we won’t be.

However, after years of looking at the issue, my conclusion is this: HRC and the other gay organizations are not, because of the entrenched interests that control them and the addiction of their business models to moonbat money, ever going to change.

Given that, I have two options:

– Continue my work on an individual basis, occasionally allying with groups with similar, but not conflicting, interests (i.e. LCR)

– Create a group for the specific purpose of providing an “alternate voice” to HRC

Given that I already have contacts with various groups, both political and corporate, who ask my opinions on these matters, I am providing an alternate voice, so that’s not a concern. It might be magnified if I formed a separate group, but I think I would lose the personal touch that seems to work best in these situations.

Also, forming an alternative group would give HRC a real enemy, which is the last thing they need; they need to continue to have to dream up reasons for their existence, because that’s what drives them into the hysterics that push them farther and farther towards irrelevancy. As more and more gays are turned off by their antics, more and more gays can be turned on to community-level activism and the kind of work that I do.

To summarize, Pat, forming another group would be akin to putting together an army to storm the fortress of a pampered, spoiled royal family — lots of smoke, lots of flame, and lots of casualties. I prefer to eliminate them by letting them bleed their subjects dry for nothing, having those subjects grow disgusted with them and leave, and waiting for them to turn on each other.

Okay, NDT, that’s fine, and I see your frustration is justified. But what about the substance of my request, as opposed to the solution you say that the current gay groups use. And I wasn’t necessarily saying that conservatives join in with he the moonbats, but start their own. I understand many, like you and others, have been doing grassroots work and succeeded somewhat. But yet it’s still those organizations that supposedly still speak for gay people. As long as many conservative gays in power stay in the closet or only semi-open, much of what you are saying will not change.

I’m sorry, but I choked on my chicken (…Philly sub. My lunch) when I read that.

Your right JRC…. when’s the last time any gay person has EVER judged someone else….?

:::plays Twilight Zone theme:::

You’re kidding right? LOL Increase in education…sorry $40B budget cut – part is in education/student loads. Repubs want to build a $200M wall across our couthern borders, the War will wind up costing $2 Trillion – when that money could have been spent HELPING PEOPLE HERE, you know ….40M + without health Ins., Poverty, Homelessness, the Forgotten Katrina victims debacle, OUR nations Infrustructure bridges, roads….I’d rather our nation go into debt helping OUR NATION then on a war started under false pretence…2000+ dead soldiers, over 15K seriously mamed…and Bush’s policy – CUT vet benefits??? Waaaa? Send soldiers into battle WITHOUT proper equipment! Ease the DODT policy – during BUSH”s war to USE Gay People….but when it’s all over if it ever is… “Bye Bye” you’re gay we don’t want you!! Sorry I don’t care what party the president is: ANY President that Truly wants to add DISCRIMINATION into the VERY DOCUMENT THAT DEFINES OUR NATION against a certain segment of the population has a screw loose. According to a recent report the President was quoted / over-heard calling the Constitution a “God Dammed Peice of Paper” — does he have to actually kill someone on live TV for you not to agree with him?

Has the left given Bush any credit whatsoever for implementing broad swaths of their domestic agenda, e.g. massive increases in education spending, the continuation of Clinton environmental policies, politically correct border control, and a massive expansion of the MediCare entitlement? No, they still call him Hitler and call for his impeachment.

You say — “I will NEVER support Republicans – UNTIL they COMPLETELY DIS-ASSOCIATE THEMSELVES from the Religious Fundies!” — but the truth is, you and the rest of your ilk wouldn’t support them anyway. So, why in the Hell should they give you anything?