Although police have found “‘Nazi regalia’ and anti-Semitic writings on the wall” of the bedroom of Jacob D. Robida, the man accused of the vicious attack in the New Bedford gay bar earlier this week, National Gay and Lesbian Task Force (NGLTF) Executive Director Matt Foreman sees the attack as another excuse to blame the religious right. In a statement yesterday, Foreman said:
The hatred and loathing fueling this morning’s vicious attack on gay men in New Bedford is not innate, it is learned. And who is teaching it? Leaders of the so-called Christian right, that’s who. Individuals like James Dobson of Focus on the Family, the Family Research Council’s Tony Perkins, the Rev. Pat Robertson and their ilk are obsessed with homosexuality. They use their vast resources, media networks and affiliated pulpits to blame lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people for all the ills of society.
Actually, it seems that NGLTF is always blaming social conservatives and Republicans for all the ills of society.
Despite NGLTF’s angry accusations, authorities have only found no evidence that this creep was familiar with the rhetoric of the Christian right. In addition to his Nazi regalia, he also “displayed a Nazi symbol” on his Internet profile where “he wrote, ‘I’m interested in death, destruction, chaos, filth and greed.’” Doesn’t sound like the rhetoric of the Christian right to me. It’s one thing (and a good one) to fault anti-gay social conservatives for their narrow reading of Scripture, it’s another to accuse them of teaching “hatred and loathing” which fuels a brutal attack on gay people.
Foreman is not the first person to level such an unfounded accusation. In an Op-Ed in the New York Times in 1998, Frank Rich accused Gary Bauer and his Family Research Council for being indirectly responsible for the beating and murder of Matthew Shepard. Now, I have little stomach for the anti-gay rhetoric of Gary Bauer or the other individuals Foreman listed in his statement. They twist Scripture and misunderstand gay and lesbian Americans, defining our community by its most sexually-obsessed and drug-addicted members.
That said, wrong as those social conservatives are on homosexuality, they don’t countenance violence, so it would be equally wrong to suggest that they are, in some way, responsible for what happened in New Bedford. It’s unfortunate when gay leaders, like Foreman, engage in the same kind of rhetoric for which they fault anti-gay social conservatives. The thug who attacked the patrons of that gay bar is a low-life who reads neo-Nazi screeds not a Christian martyr eager to serve his Savior.
He doesn’t seem to be influenced by any Christian theology, not even the crackpot theology of those who would steer their flock away from an evangelical movie featuring an openly gay actor. It seems that NGLTF is always looking for an excuse to lambaste social conservatives, blaming them even for crimes for which they are clearly not responsible. It’s unfortunate that this gay group seems unable to distinguish between neo-Nazi ideology and social conservative Christian theology.
In his documentary, The Fog of War: Eleven Lessons from the Life of Robert S. McNamara, filmmaker Errol Morris faults McNamara, a Defense Secretary during the Vietnam War, for failing to understand the enemy our nation was fighting. Yesterday’s release shows that Matt Foreman doesn’t understand social conservatives, the enemy his group appears to be fighting. The more eager he and other gay activists are to attack social conservatives for any number of evils in our society, the harder it’s going to be for gay and lesbian Americans to find common ground with our social conservative straight fellows in the heartland, particularly broad-minded churchgoing Republicans in the “red” states.
-Dan (AKA GayPatriotWest): GayPatriotWest@aol.com
ADDENDUM: I hope to write on the Hate Crimes issue and this brutal attack, but, for now, let me just say this, the punishment I favor for Mr. Robida would certainly violate the Eighth Amendment to the Constitution.
Why does the left fear Christians?
It endlessly annoys and amuses me when the Left forgets that National Socialism, Fascism, and Leninist/Stalinist/Maoist Communism are all manifestation of the Left-end of the eco-political spectrum. Especially when they conflate social-conservatism/captialism with “Nazi/Fascist”.
But then, our schools teach nothing wit the faintest wiff of controversy or ideologial content. Somehow since Hilter and Stalin’s Communists were enemies, they “must be” political-opposites; therefore anything “right-wing” or conservative must be “Fascist” or “Nazi” in-content.
I also think it does little good for gay groups to turn Christians into the enemy.
#4
It’s all part of casting yourself as a victim.
If one of your basic assumptions is that Bush = Hitler, it’s easy to arrive at Nazis = Christians.
Ted B writes: “National Socialism, Fascism, and Leninist/Stalinist/Maoist Communism are all manifestation of the Left-end.” See what happens when you think in ad hominems? Obviously, Ted has not been to college. If he had, he’d know his “left” hand from his “right.”
You guys are so broad minded, no pun intended.
The hallmark of pre-GWB conservatism was: Live and let live. Almost every “conservative” cites it.
With the biblical Republican party has come a new nuance: GLBT are the cause. Decay of the family. Subversion of adolescents. Unhealthy habits.
I guess you two dudes haven’t learned the “new” conservo-speak. Queers are responsible for the downfall of Western Civilization. It’s true. Pat Robertson, Lou Sheldon, James Dobson, Jerry Falwell, et alia ALL say it. The TRUE prophets have spoken.
Shame! Shame! Repent. Become ye an ex-gay with the Lord’s help. Sin, sin, and yet more sin. You’re even causing our virgins to become sluts. See what “Borkmouth Mountain” hath begot? All our hetero divorces and out-of-wedlock pregnancies are GAY’s fault. Remember Sodom and what’s her name. Those Jewish angels were fine until the father agreed to let them sleep with his daughters. Perverts all of you.
SALT. You’re all salt. Salt of the earth, of course. ORAL Roberts, take THAT thing out of your mouth. You’re coming HOME. (Did you get them extra dollars?) Yes, Jehova. (NO, fool, my Name is Yaweh.)
The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away. Fortunately, GWB is president, J, so we don’t owe any capital gains. Blessed is he who CUMS in the Name of the Lord. Hallelujah, Amen. (ORAL, my Name is Yahweh. GET it?) Yes, Master, Your Way.
Regarding the addendum, I don’t know what punishment you might favor, but just to let you know, there is no death penalty in MA state courts under the state constitution. For some years, some people have tried to get the state’s constitution to be amended to provide for one, but to no avail.
Stephen, what does your comment have to do with my post? I wonder about your obsession with the president of the United States.
Raj, e-mail me privately and I’ll tell you the punishment I have in mind. Interesting that there’s no death penalty in the Bay State, but, as I understand it, there is a Hate Crimes’ Law. If the man who is critically injured dies of the injuries. then this creep who beat him should be put to death. If not, he should be locked up at least until the 100th anniversary of John F. Kennedy’s election.
#7
I guess you two dudes haven’t learned the “new” conservo-speak. Queers are responsible for the downfall of Western Civilization. It’s true. Pat Robertson, Lou Sheldon, James Dobson, Jerry Falwell, et alia ALL say it. The TRUE prophets have spoken.
Turns out, they were only talking about you, dumbass.
#8
How about keel hauling or hanging from the yard arms? They have anything against that?
Leading conservatives do not advocate that gays be killed or beaten. But when you constantly hear that gays are preying on children, gays are a menace to the family, gays want to destroy society, gays are the major threat to America, you’re going to see an increase in violence against gays. And I’m not saying that conservatives should be blamed for this, or that conservatives alone make these comments. I’m just saying that when you hear a constant spew of hate about the gay agenda, about how gays are taking over, gays are a menace, then you’re going to see an ugly result.
The Catholic Church has a rather stern view on sex, but it’s consistent. In principle, each sexual act must be open to the transmission of life. That leaves out a whole lot of stuff that most of us do, from masturbation to condoms to birth control pills, but it’s not specifically anti-gay. And, if you look at the priesthood, the ban on non-reproductive sex is honored more in theory than in practice. I think it’s reasonable to suppose that God wants the human race as a whole to perpetuate itself, but I never thought of Him as a prune-faced killjoy.
Ah, victim culture strikes again.
If this had happened in a Red State the Left would have called this typical of Red State mentality. Now it has happened in a Blue State and its what – still the result of a Red State mentality? Being solid Democrat will not protect you, obviously. Isn’t that the reason to vote Blue? Isn’t that the reason to look over all the socialism and anti-American bigotry of the left, they will give us gay marriage and protection? Close your ears to those Left-wing sirens.
National gay organizations are showing growth by seeing more than their own objectives. Identifying with other groups lessens our isolation and improves our own outlook. The right leaning of us have already accomplished this and on a much larger scale. We can love our entire nation, not just the parts we agree with.
Finally, the NAZIs were Socialists. They hated American capitalism for its “decadence” and loved state control of all facets of life. That is Socialism.
Leading conservatives do not advocate that gays be killed or beaten. But when you constantly hear that gays are preying on children, gays are a menace to the family, gays want to destroy society, gays are the major threat to America, you’re going to see an increase in violence against gays. And I’m not saying that conservatives should be blamed for this, or that conservatives alone make these comments. I’m just saying that when you hear a constant spew of hate about the gay agenda, about how gays are taking over, gays are a menace, then you’re going to see an ugly result.
Then it would seem odd to blame, as Matt Foreman does, the fact that people of MANY different ideologies, not just conservatives, hold these views on just one ideology, as he does.
Perhaps it’s more obvious.
People think gays prey on children because gays support the ACLU, which is trying to get NAMBLA off the hook and allow them to promote child rape online as “free speech”. Close corollary: the fact that gays’ own legal organization, Lambda, is trying to get convictions for soliciting and intending to perform sex in public restrooms overturned.
People think gays want to destroy the family because they champion films like Brokeback Mountain, in which two men put carrying out a gay affair ahead of their commitment to their wives and children, as an exemplary and normal gay relationship.
People think gays want to destroy society because they support unlimited abortion, no parental notification, legalization of drugs, and lowering of the age of consent, as well as banning the mention of religion from all public places.
People think gays are the major threat to America because, as both Coburn and Bush pointed out, AIDS is one, and MTM sex is still the number-one best way to get it.
Those are harsh statements. But that is what people believe because we have let people like Matt Foreman do the talking for gays and never once spoken up ourselves — and what I have listed is what Matt Foreman believes, and what gays like Stephen reinforce.
The gay community is in the situation it’s in because not enough people have spoken up against gay rights being exploited to advance leftist agendas. It’s not going to continue.
-People think gays prey on children because gays support the ACLU,-
How many people really think that, NDT? The stereotype of a homosexual being a pedophile goes back to long before the ACLU was prominent. Do we have any surveys or polls that could tell us what the American public thinks of the ACLU? Or if they think that gays are pedophiles because of the ACLU.
-People think gays want to destroy the family because they champion films like Brokeback Mountain, in which two men put carrying out a gay affair ahead of their commitment to their wives and children, as an exemplary and normal gay relationship.-
If that’s the case, then why did so many in the pulpit and in political circles go around saying all the “gays want to destroy the family” commentary before Brokeback Mountain ever came out? Before Brokeback Mountain was even published? Phyllis Schlafly was going around saying that the ERA would break up the American family because among other reasons, the ERA would legalize gay marriage. This was in the 70’s. Long before Brokeback Mountain ever existed.
Do you think that straight people championing Brief Encounter or The Bridges of Madison County means that all straight people condone adultery among heterosexuals? Do straight people support prostitution because they flocked to see Pretty Woman and idolized Pretty Woman as the classic normal romance?
-People think gays want to destroy society because they support unlimited abortion, no parental notification, legalization of drugs, and lowering of the age of consent, as well as banning the mention of religion from all public places.-
Really? If that’s the case, then why do politicians and religious leaders constantly talk about “saving marriage”? Why don’t they just get up there and say that gays want to destroy Jesus and want to get everyone high and kill their babies?
–
People think gays are the major threat to America because, as both Coburn and Bush pointed out, AIDS is one, and MTM sex is still the number-one best way to get it. –
Then why is it that since the time of AIDS, public support for gay rights has steadily increased? If they thought were we such a threat, wouldn’t we have been put in camps decades ago?
–
Those are harsh statements. But that is what people believe because we have let people like Matt Foreman do the talking for gays and never once spoken up ourselves –
Matt Foreman is in charge of an organization known for unabashedly liberal beliefs. NGLTF have always been honest about their attitudes. And he’s actually fairly sensible when you compare him to former NGLTF leaders like Vaid. I don’t agree with most of what he says but I don’t think that he is hogging the spotlight. He just represents one corner of gay organization, as do HRC and LCR. If people don’t like HRC or LCR being too liberal, that’s understandable, but NGLTF is what it’s always been. Not the standard bearer for gays.
-The gay community is in the situation it’s in because not enough people have spoken up against gay rights being exploited to advance leftist agendas.-
The gay community is a minority community. When the clergy or the press or the politicians need an easy target to distract the public, they can always go to us.
You act like gays were beloved until they became enslaved to the leftist mentality. But not that long ago, gays were still considered mentally ill according to the AMA and APA. They were given electroshock treatment and lobotomies. In the McCarthy era, countless people were persecuted because of their homosexuality or suspect homosexuality.
We can’t blame all the fear and prejudice against gays on ourselves. There is a very real undercurrent of hate against us and there always has been. Many of those who are the most virulent against us are those who desperately work to keep us OUT of the Republican Party, OUT of mainstream or conservative churches, OUT of anything they see as a normal way of life. They need gays to be the bogeyman. Just a few days ago Chris Matthews speculated that maybe gays burned down the churches in Alabama that were recently set on fire. We’re blamed even when we haven’t done a thing.
#2 – …the Left forgets that National Socialism, Fascism, and Leninist/Stalinist/Maoist Communism are all manifestation of the Left-end of the eco-political spectrum.
Hear, hear.
Perhaps Left-liberals’ constant refrain, “X.. is a Nazi!!!!” is a way of deflecting that knowledge.
Hitler’s party theoreticians were all hard-core Socialists. The only real difference between the Nazis and the Communists was on the issue of nationalism vs. internationalism – thus, National Socialism, as opposed to internationalist Socialism.
But note that, with the fall of Communism (which always was secretly nationalist), all of today’s Socialists are openly nationalist, in one form/degree or another.
As Christopher Hitchens points out, the “anti-war” American Left is essentially isolationist – another word for nationalist. Other diverse examples: China, North Korea, Canada (certainly – the Left-liberals / socialists there being fairly obsessed with their nation’s distinct identity), Cuba, Venezuela, any Third World country’s socialism…it’s all essentially, or functionally, National Socialism.
#6 – Stephen – head deeply, deeply in a deep dark place, and deceiving himself about it to a simply astounding degree, as usual.
Only if your definition of “hate” is so overgeneralized that it’s meaningless, as the left has done. Hate is what the Muslims are doing right now in response to those cartoons. Hate is what is printed on the pages of newspapers and websites and spouted on television every night in Islamic nations.
Opposition to gay marriage is not necessarily hate, nor is it usually.
I agree with GPW’s point. But….
Neo-Nazi’s in the United States do tend to follow the doctrine of Christian white supremacists who base their reasoning in the Bible. So the link to Christianity is most likely there. But that doesn’t mean anything.
You can’t tar all Christians with same brush used for Nazi’s. Not anymore than Christian organizations can fairly associate all gay and lesbian people with NAMBLA and pedophilia. We don’t like it when people unfairly judge us in this way so we should not repeat the sin. Not even if it makes good talking points on Fox news.
Patrick–I don’t follow American Neo-nazis close enough to know that they differ from their German forebears in looking to Christianity for guidance. Hitler’s Nazism was decidedly an un-Christian force which sought guidance in Germanic mythology – albeit a twisted reading of that pagan tradition.
Do you think that straight people championing Brief Encounter or The Bridges of Madison County means that all straight people condone adultery among heterosexuals? Do straight people support prostitution because they flocked to see Pretty Woman and idolized Pretty Woman as the classic normal romance?
Truly, Carl, I never once saw straight people do anything of the sort with those movies. But I saw PLENTY of gay people do it with Brokeback.
Just a few days ago Chris Matthews speculated that maybe gays burned down the churches in Alabama that were recently set on fire. We’re blamed even when we haven’t done a thing.
Why on earth would they think that? It’s not like gay-rights groups break into churches and commit acts of vandalism or anything. It’s not like gays like Matt Foreman go around exhorting reprisals against religion or anything.
We can’t blame all the fear and prejudice against gays on ourselves.
That’s not the problem, Carl. The problem is that we won’t blame ANY of the fear and prejudice against gays on ourselves.
I mean, honestly. Gay organizations not giving money or support to an organization that goes to court to argue that “gay rights” allow pedophiles to post websites outlining how to coerce, lure, and rape children, then cover their tracks, should be a no-brainer. But HRC, NGLTF, et al. continue to give the ACLU money and their undying support, then wonder why people think that gays promote pedophilia. DUH!
Hmmm….checking CNN, it now seems that, given where it happened, one of those “religious fundamentalists” and “Christian rightists” just gave his life to stop this maniac.
If that’s the case, fat useless Matt Foreman and his other liberal syncophants need to have it thrown back in their faces. It’s time those antireligious, hatemongering bigots that control the gay left were exposed for what they are when a person who they fling hate at gave his life to stop a potential killer of gay people.
Who’s with me?
-Opposition to gay marriage is not necessarily hate, nor is it usually. –
I wasn’t talking about opposition to gay marriage. I don’t think being opposed to gay marriage means someone is a bigot. I was talking about people who say gays are child molesters, a threat to the family, “domestic terrorists”, who demonize gays for money or power, who don’t even want to treat gays with respect unless gays go to some kind of ex-gay facility.
–
Truly, Carl, I never once saw straight people do anything of the sort with those movies. But I saw PLENTY of gay people do it with Brokeback.-
I’ve seen MANY people idolize films and books like Brief Encounter or Bridges, or Same Time Next Year, or Pretty Woman. I’ve heard women say, “I’d love to be a prostitute if it meant I met Richard Gere.” Or in the other movies, oh how noble these straight people are, they’re married to people they don’t love, let’s watch them suffer as they pine away for their true love. The starcrossed lovers/adultery angle is celebrated in many straight films. Brokeback Mountain is the first major gay-themed film which has done the same. The film also presents these men as being cruel for doing what they did to their wives, and the men pay a price for their double lives. Compare this to Same Time Next Year, where we learn that the spouses of the lead characters knew they were cheating and were fine with it, and after their spouses died, the adulterers lived happily ever after. If the public could turn this into a popular play and film, then how can they hold a grudge against us for Brokeback Mountain?
-Why on earth would they think that? It’s not like gay-rights groups break into churches and commit acts of vandalism or anything. –
So going into a Church and throwing stuff around SEVENTEEN years ago means that it’s perfectly fine for Matthews to try to blame gays for church fires. I guess that means it’s perfectly fine for gays to be blamed for pretty much anything because at one time or another, some homosexual somewhere in the world did something bad. If that’s the case, NDT, then are you saying there’s really no reason for gays to ever improve our public image, because we will always be ruined by our past?
–
That’s not the problem, Carl. The problem is that we won’t blame ANY of the fear and prejudice against gays on ourselves.-
It goes both ways. If we are ready and willing to justify every single line used against gays, to the point where we drag out crimes from 1989 which happened in a totally different part of America in a totally different time, then we’re no better than those who refuse to blame anything on themselves. It seems to be all or nothing.
-Hmmm….checking CNN, it now seems that, given where it happened, one of those “religious fundamentalists” and “Christian rightists” just gave his life to stop this maniac.-
The article doesn’t say anything about the cop being Christian or religious. Not all cops are Christian.
I just wonder how many people are going to try to blame gays for this cop’s death and say that we should feel horrible because someone who targeted gays is now responsible for the death of a cop. I won’t be surprised if a few people here or somewhere else say that.
2: Au Contraire! Look at a history of Fascist regimes, particularly in the 20th century. Many of them came into existence becasue of perceived loosening of morals and “lefties” taking over. The leaders who came to power placed blame on specific groups of people and promised to bring back peace and order (Mussolini to make the trains run on time in Italy, Hitler to make the Jews the scapegoats of all of Germany’s problems, etc). There’s a big difference between socialism and fascism.
16: Too bad you missed the point of Brokeback Mountain pal.
What’s worse? Not adhering to a commitment or making the wrong commitment in the first place. Seems to me Jack and Ennis would have been happier if they could have gone off together and started their own ranch.
One of the lessons of BBM is what happens when people who have feelings for the same sex pursue “normal” relationships to “fix” themselves. How many thousands, hundreds of thousands of time has this happened in this country, in this world? It showed how unhappy peole will be on all sides when you can’t be true to yourself in world that uses false morals to tell people that they’re wrong/bad.
17: Amen to that. And another thing as far as saving marriage: Where are all the conservative legislators when it comes to marriage laws? I’m not aware of the vast mjaority of them trying to enact legislation to make divorces harder to get or make some more tests for marriage. They all clamor for a waiting period on abortion, but how about a waiting period on getting married? Think there will be a waiting period if Barb or Jenna Bush want to obtain an abortion after one of their drunken nights? Any statistics on how many of our conservative elected officials are divorced?
Dan – actually there are some violent religious right people – the abortion doctor killer is one example of such a person. Randall Terry has a history of encouraging violence. Dobson and Perkins don’t have a record of inciting violence – but their rhetoric dehumanizes gays – and they quote “research” by the discredited Paul Cameron.
I just heard from a friend of mine that a former press person at the Minnesota Family Council was gay – and this person asked me why a gay person would want to work at the MFC – well I said – it’s a bit twisted – but where else would you get paid for surfing gay sites – in the most sexually explicit areas, and viewing gay porn videos etc. – why working at organizations like the MFC. Look at Peter LaBarbera over at the Illinois Family Institute – he attends International Mr Leather (without the wife) for “research” – also Market Days. Someone wrote an open letter to LaBarbera and advised – “when you are engaging in this research, always remember to use a condom.”
I’ve heard from Dale Carpenter that hate crimes against gays have increased in states when they have had campaigns for these marriage amendments. I haven’t seen the data supporting that – but would like to.
I don’t support hate crimes legislation – for any group. I think that crime ought to be punished as crime – but do think that sometimes incendiary rhetoric can encourage some wackos to act out on it. (In the same way that teenage boys sometimes act out “Jackass” stunts).
#17
Then why is it that since the time of AIDS, public support for gay rights has steadily increased?
Really? So then we don’t really want to get rid of AIDS because we can use that as leverage and elicit pitty?
#25
I’m in.
Ooops!
#31 should have referrenced #24
# 24 North Dallas Thirty — February 4, 2006 @ 7:53 pm – February 4, 2006
Hmmm….checking CNN, it now seems that, given where it happened, one of those “religious fundamentalists” and “Christian rightists” just gave his life to stop this maniac.
You’re being about as presumptuous as the people up thread who claimed that Robida acted out of anti-gay animosity based on conservative christian indoctrination, .
I haven’t commented on whether the anti-gay animosity was actually based on conservative christian indoctrination, largely because the suspected perpetrator was not in custody and could not be questioned. Remember the Ronald Gay shooting in the Roanoke VA gay bar a few years ago. He claimed that he shot up the gay bar because he was angered by jokes about his last name. People sometimes commit crimes for the weirdest reasons.
Also you do not know, from the CNN report, whether the officers who were killed had any idea that Robida was around. From the report, Robida left the scene driving an automobile with Kentucky license plate. Kentucky is some distance from New Bedford MA
With these shootings in Arkansas, Robida will be tried in two states, Massachusetts and Arkansas. I wonder which will try him first.
#29 Eva Young — February 5, 2006 @ 1:23 am – February 5, 2006
at Peter LaBarbera over at the Illinois Family Institute – he attends International Mr Leather (without the wife) for “research” – also Market Days.
I heard LaBarbera–when he was with one of his earlier employers–quoted as saying that he had lots of gay pornography in his office–for research purposes, of course.
Right
/sarcasm
Ah, narcissism strikes again. Your “happiness” becomes irrelevant when you marry and have a family.
It’s called growing up and being a responsible adult, instead of a cowboy-ified barfly.
35: WTF?? I’m talking about if they had come down from the mountain the first time and decided to hang together, instead of Ennis marrying his fiancee’. I have a good friend who, back in the 70s, broke off his engagement with his fiancee’ (the wedding invites had already gone out at the time he did it). Do you think he and his fiancee’ should have gone through it just because they had agreed to it? Even though he couldn’t even express it to her fully at the time, 30 years later they’re both a hell a lot of happier than if he had gone through with it. He broke it off not just for himself, but to save her the unhappiness she would have eventually suffered.
Do you apply the same attitude to the over 50% of people who divorce in this country? All that “sake of the children” ideology is BS. Yeah, it’s not the greatest to come from a divorced home, but it’s far worse for kids to be brought up in a home filled with hatred, loathing, distrust and fear. My opinion on the characters? Alma should have divorced Ennis the moment she realized that he was in love with Jack. Not basing it on a one time tryst, but realizing her husband was truly in love with another person and not her. As far you could tell, she did end up happy by marrying the guy who really loved her.
There’s a big difference between narcissism and doing what’s right. Anything that’s done in life just to “keep up appearances” or “for someone else’s sake” is a mistake from the onset.
Do you apply the same attitude to the over 50% of people who divorce in this country?
Actually, the 50% number is a fallacy. More like 70% of married couples stay married. The figure is inflated to 50% because of a rather small fraction that marry and divorce multiple times a la Liz Taylor.
‘Ah, narcissism strikes again. Your “happiness” becomes irrelevant when you marry and have a family. It’s called growing up and being a responsible adult”.
No, REAL growing up is knowing who you are; not marrying for for some selfish deluded reason, and ruining someone elses life.
Well, who SHOULD we blame, pray tell?
The right wingers portray gay people as subhuman, pedophilic, hedonistic satan worshipers and then we are not supposed to conclude that hearing that message night and day for 18 years would have let Robida justify his hatred and his attack.
I will be the first to say that not all conservatives are anti-gay. (See interview of Fmr. Senator Danforth in this week’s WP.) HOWEVER, the anti-gay ones are the ones that we are hearing from. If there are any other messages from the right wing, they are not getting out.
Face it, one half of the republican party wants to put gays in concentration camps, 49 per cent of the rest would be okay with it if it meant making a buck, and the other one per cent, like the authors of this blog, would believe they were going on a “conservative retreat” as they were being loaded into the freight cars.
Face it, one half of the republican party wants to put gays in concentration camps,
Are you a friend of Kevin?
Blu, like Hugo Chavez, Cindy Sheehan and Michael Moore, your descriptions of the right have little to do with conservatives as they are, but a lot to do with conservatives as you imagine them.
#12 Speak on brother Carl!
BludevlsAdvocate, #39
It does seem obvious, doesn’t it? Andy and I have made the very same observations. So, we “minority” of three apparently see something these dudes don’t or won’t. The current GOP is harmful to one’s life.
You are not alone. But save your breath.
Hank: We’re becoming legion. There’s now four. Even in “red state” mentality, there’s always a beacon of hope.
Perhaps you’re right. Maybe one should just let this incestuous affair continue till it’s self-absorbed. But then I recall what happened in 1933 Germany, when “patriots” supported their Leader, and few, if any, responded. Unlike these dudes, I remember history, and don’t want it repeated, especially in the U.S.
Legal Fiction writes:
Frankly, I think the GOP and evangelical leadership’s preferred policies are not, on balance, all that Christian (anti-gay, pro-tax cuts-for-rich, anti-environment, focused on resentment rather than the “good news,” etc.). But to maintain the loyalty of the evangelical rank-and-file to policies that don’t naturally square with Christian values, the evangelical leadership has constructed an “Outrage Industry.” Its goal is to keep evangelicals both loyal and distracted by making them think they are being persecuted on all fronts all the time. To do this, the Outrage Industry packages and commodifies outrages (Schiavo, Merry Christmas, gay marriage, Ten Commandments) and distributes them through direct mail campaigns, talk radio, and other mediums.
I think something very similar is happening in the Muslim world. Both the Middle East regimes and fundamentalist Islamic leaders have a vested interest in convincing the Muslim rank-and-file that they are being perpetually persecuted. The persecution takes the people’s eyes off of the regimes’ or leaders’ own failures and repressions and directs them toward an “Other.”
MAYBE if one holds up a mirror often enough, some will see.
The irony I am seeing in this discussion is that those who accuse the Christians of putting all the ills of society at the feet of gays, and somehow making people go out to harm gays, are doing the exact same thing to Christians, by laying all the ills of society at their feet.
That’s the problem sometimes with cries for tolerance, those who demand it the most often practice it the least.
“We’re becoming legion”
How unintentionally appropriate!!! Mark 5:10 🙂
“MAYBE if one holds up a mirror often enough, some will see.”
Or maybe, Stephen, if you speak directly into it often enough…
Oh, and hank – just a word to the wise:
The day you have to keep company with raj and Stephen as your main friends, is the day you should question what you’re doing here (or accomplishing).
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Really? So then we don’t really want to get rid of AIDS because we can use that as leverage and elicit pitty? –
You should make more of an effort to read all of the comments before you reply. NDT said that people saw gays as a threat to America because of AIDS. That’s why I asked why in the past 20 years had public support for gay rights had increased if America saw gays as such a threat.
I know it’s easier to score points and look clever, but that doesn’t have much to do with what I or NDT were discussing.
Oh, and hank, Andy, Kevin, Advocate:
Here’s your statement of belief about gay conservatives/gay Republicans.
But a “queer” species of Republicanism has recently evolved. At its core it is hostile to the liberal conception of government being neutral to whatever one perceives to be the common good. Instead of that historical paradigm, it has become a government of self-righteous moralists. Many of them want to add the 318 biblical laws to the Constitution. They not only hate GLBT, but they want to punish us by denying us even minimal subsistence: wages and housing. I suspect, if they could, they’d imprison GLBT, but even though their leader GWB has done it repeatedly with other Americans, they’re not sure they can persuade the rest of Amerika to join them. They even became ballistic when the Supreme Court “allowed” private consensual sex — the thing that NDT, for example, automatically leads to polygamy.
So, to summarize, gay conservatives and Republicans want to do the following:
— Insert all biblical laws into the Constitution
— Deny gays any housing or jobs
— Put gays in concentration camps
Now, if that’s what you want to think, it’s your right. But I think your devotion and adherence to this speaks for itself.