Kudos for the interpretation of Judaic theology as it relates to Christianity.

Actually, no. YOU think that all evangelicals believe that Jews are going to hell; rather than realize that that was an incorrect stereotype, you change the definition of “evangelical”.

Now, to deal with Ian’s attempt at theology:

I dunno, Jesus seems pretty clear on that point. I see no way for wriggle room for anyone who does not accept Jesus as their Savior to get into heaven.

Then you obviously believe that Moses, Abraham, David, Solomon, and everyone else who existed before Jesus is banished to hell, since it was impossible for them to accept Him as their Savior.

The reality is, Ian, much closer to John 1, where it talks about the Word of God as the pathway to salvation. Jesus is the Word made flesh; Scripture, including the Jewish Torah, is the Word revealed in prophecy and writing. Two views of the same coin.

Thus, modern Jews who follow the Torah are taking the same view of the Word as their forebears had. Jesus is a more-convenient and quicker method of getting the same end result.

Nice attempt at wedge politics. Jews aren’t stupid, though; they know that the Democrats value anti-Semites like Cindy Sheehan and Louis Farrakhan more than them.

My suggestion is that you stick with those folks, sweetie.

Eric in Reality

Ian, you’ve proven yourself to be more disingenuous than you bargained for, haven’t you?

Thank you for being as honest as you could be. I appreciate the effort. Sincererly.

Eric remianing in reality.

Yes. You see, even atheists can have principles and integrity. As for your questions, if the few paragraphs I’ve written here can destroy someone’s faith in God’s existence, then I doubt that faith was very strong to begin with. I would only hope that I could get some folks to actually THINK about their faith and question it whether that faith is in God or a President.

As I have also said, I support the freedom of people to believe whatever they wish. I don’t support their forcing others to share those beliefs.

Ian, I don’t wish to ban you. I only ask that you answer the specific qiestions I posed to you.

Your failure to do that will only indicate which course of action should be taken.

“I think I have tried to debate in a civil tone despite numerous attacks and insults. In any event, they don’t have to ban me; I will leave if they ask.”

“I dunno, Jesus seems pretty clear on that point. I see no way for wriggle room for anyone who does not accept Jesus as their Savior to get into heaven. Give me an example of an evangelical Christian theologian who argues that someone can reject Jesus as Savior and still get into heaven.

As for the suggestion that only believers ought to debate the existence of God, well, that’s about the most absurd comment you’ve made.”

That’s it. I’m done. For me to have to debate Ian on scripture, which he’s admittedly denied the accuracy of, is completely ridiculous.

My email to Dan & Bruce is sent. if you guys wish to continue this charade, that’s your business. As for me, this has gone on long enough.

The mere existence of a conservative worldview is intolerable for Ian and his buddies, and as long as we continue to allow them to vent their frustration, they’ll continue to believe that they actually have a point.

This was just dandy, until this asshat decided that he knew enough about a belief system he held in disdain to debate with me. Insulting me is fine, but to allow him to continulally piss upon Christianity in the name of free speech is inexcusable.

I’m done with this garbage.

I dunno, Jesus seems pretty clear on that point. I see no way for wriggle room for anyone who does not accept Jesus as their Savior to get into heaven. Give me an example of an evangelical Christian theologian who argues that someone can reject Jesus as Savior and still get into heaven.

As for the suggestion that only believers ought to debate the existence of God, well, that’s about the most absurd comment you’ve made.

Even so, Judaism believes that all people, regardless of religion, or belief in G-d, can have a place in Heaven. It’s all dependent on how one lives his or her life.

Of course, it’s all BS to me – just stories made up because people want answers to everything. Like everyone else, I haven’t a clue as to what happens when we die. I only know of what happens to us while we are here. But unlike most everyone else, I am comfortable with that.

Does that make me better? Yeah, probabaly just a little bit. hehehe It also makes me better that my name is spelled with a K. Guess your mother missed the memo on that one, Eric. LOL =)

But to answer your questions…

Yes, she does believe Jews are going to heaven. As a matter of fact, MOST evangelicals believe Israel’s at the front of the line, and that their place there is assured scripturally.

As for Jerry Falwell, and anyone else you seem to think Christians blindly obey, these same evangelicals are also quite capable of calling a shill a shill. The fulfillment of faith is based in scripture, NOT in who stands upon a pulpit.

By your own admission, you deny the existence of God. Why then, do you invite debate on the matter? Are you under some misguided impression that somehow you’re going to change some minds? Are you attempting to destroy the faith of someone here in God’s existence? If so, then please be so kind as to admit as much. Otherwise, I’ll ask you not to debate theology from a humanist standpoint. You are neither interested in listening, nor are you even remotely qualified to discuss these concepts with me. You’ll pardon me for seeming elitist, but your comments, as well as the sources you provide therein, reveal a young man woefully ignorant with regard to theology and dogma.

The nature of Christian faith, Ian my boy, demands belief in God absent conclusive evidence, and while freewill allows you to proceed through life lacking such faith, doesn’t your particular belief system allow room for those of us who DO choose to believe?

Come to think of it, if heaven means spending eternity with the likes of Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, then I’ll take the other place!

Fine by me except I don’t try to force my views on anyone else. You see, I have confidence in my lack of belief in a god. It seems to me that those seeking to force others to live by their religious dogma are really the insecure ones requiring validation of their beliefs by imposing those beliefs on others.

“At which time the Jews will be struck down into hell. Their support of Israel isn’t derived from some great altruism.”

That’s patently false, Erik!!!!

My mom is a born again evangelical, and as a child, I was raised catholic. Scripture states, Touch not my annointed… in referring to Israel, aka God’s Chosen People.

Most christians I know stand behind Israel because that’s what they believe scripture tells them to do.

Eric in Hollywood

No one except the wacked out anti-God leftists call Christians, Christianists. It won’t work, but unChurched heathen sure does. And you gotta admit it beats out VdaK’s provincial name for you.

Because I don’t think all Christianists would choose to institute the death penalty for homosexuals like the Dominionists would and, like it or not, the term Dominionist has become associated with such harsh treatment for all citizens who break Old Testament laws. And, of course, the Dominionists would dramatically alter the Constitution. Yet I think it’s useful to differentiate between Christians believe in a separation of church and state and those who don’t.

And what in the world does “not a big Christian” mean?

If fairness and accuracy were your motive, you would of course.

As we’ve seen, the motive of “Christianist” is to attempt to inflict a small psychic injury on ordinary non-leftist (thus non-”approved”) Christians by implicitly comparing them to Islamists, i.e., to murderers. You know it so don’t play cute.

You also know it’s invalid (or find me a contemporary Christian mass murder, if you will) and now, Ian, you know that we know as well.

Personally I am not a big Christian, but I have years of experience with both groups (Christians and nutjob far leftists) and I will deal with Christians over their detractors, any day of the week.