(GP Editor’s note: This is the last of a three part series on Gay Adoption & Parenting by frequent GP commenters “V The K” and “Michigan Matt.”
The first part, Gay Adoption, can be viewed here. The second part, Pitfalls & Promises, can be viewed here.)
So, adoption is tough, and parenting is tougher. And for gays and lesbians who parent, the costs are higher and the challenges even greater than those Glenn Reynolds describes in “The Parent Trap.” So, why would anyone raise children in this day and age? Why do unstraight people go to such lengths to parent when both the Anti-Family Left** and the Anti-Gay Right have it in for them?
(**The latest manifestation of the left’s attitude toward families is Laura Hirschman’s book-length attack on stay-at-home mothers Get to Work: A Manifesto for Women of The World.)
Part of the reason is that parenting is not quite the grim science Glenn Reynolds makes it out to be. Only counting the economic costs and social risks of parenthood doesn’t take into account the social, psychological and, some would add, spiritual rewards that balance or even exceed the costs of parenting.
Children have always served to cement the bond between mother and father, although, unfortunately, in this era of self-fulfillment and easy divorce, it doesn’t often work that way. But for a gay couple, like Michigan-Matt and Michigan-Partner, raising children together deepens their commitment to one another; encouraging each partner to act with maturity, responsibility, and selflessness. These traits, and not selfish gratification, are the real building blocks of long-term happiness.
V the K will admit his kids have caused him a lot of time. money, stress, and lost opportunities. But having them around is more meaningful and gratifying than buying a new Land Rover or attending A-List cocktail parties (at least he imagines so, never having actually been to an A-List cocktail party, but even if they gave out winning lottery tickets and Superbowl rings at those things, he’d still rather have his kids). There is nothing that the material life can offer that compares with sharing the journey of a child to adulthood, watching your kid experience things for the first time, nurturing a young intellect and teaching a kid the things you believe, and a thousand other things you get from raising kids that you can’t get from all the parties, bars, and shopping malls on the planet.
There is also, as described previously, the privilege of joining the culture of families. The culture of families is as different from the culture of gay as 7th Heaven is from Queer As Folk, but if you’re into stability and positive values, it is a welcome change. In the culture of family, you embrace responsibility, not indulgence. You appreciate the value of common sense and home-truths over the stylish cynicism of ironic detachment. Yes, Virginia, there is a Culture of Life, and it is awesome. Being a part of a community that reinforces positive social values is a benefit Reynolds can not quantify, and those who disdain family life can never appreciate.
And, at the margins, there is the consideration that even though government programs have sought to make the family unnecessary for financial security, families and children offer another kind of social security; a hedge against growing old alone, and with nothing to do.
You could still argue that those largely intangible benefits do not seem to balance the scales against the costs and the challenges, especially for the gay couple or sinle parent who has to fight all that harder to make it to parenthood. Perhaps they don’t, but there is still one more thing.
Our litigious, self-obsessed culture has made childlessness the easy choice and parenting the harder one. But those of us who make the harder choice do it for the same reason doctors still doctor when ambulance-chasing lawyers make the practice of medicine a dangerous and expensive minefield. We do it for the same reasons soldiers still soldier, when our media slimes them and our politicians undercut their mission at every opportunity. When a person does right against prevailing social pressure, one reason they do it is to be part of something greater than their selfish little lives. Love is defined by what you sacrifice, not by what gratifies you. Parents create the future in our children, and that is a mission far greater than our selfish wants.
– V the K and Michigan-Matt
(GP Ed. Note: THANKS GUYS!)
I’m trying to figure out why cocomment doesn’t work here …
*tap* *tap* Is this thing working today??
Well, I’ll start the ball rolling by being obnoxious. (an easy thing for me, as you well know).
For example, the reason I’m around to post today is that I’m covering for another employee at work while they take their family vacation. Us single Worker-Drone’s are of more use to society than you might think than after you had read this series.
In fact I’ll go as far to say that having families and children are not always good for civilization or individuals. Dysfunctional families create dysfunctional people by and large. Thats a drag on our culture, not a benefit. And I don’t think its good to have 9 children when you can only afford to feed 4. Fortunately there are gay and lesbian couples who are around that can adopt.
And some of this last post sounded straight out of a release from Focus on the Family. And thats bad, not because they are anti-gay, but because by and large they portray families as victims. Why add yet another interest group to the Culture of Victimization?
And if there is “victimization” of families going on in our culture, the influences of feminism, the Left, contraception, and yes, gay marriage, are comparatively minuscule when compared to influences like the transition of our national economy from agrarian to industrial, and then from industrial to knowledge-based. Or say the impact of the Great Depression, the 40 work week and introduction of child-labor laws.
For good or for bad, its the economic factors such as the amount of money a family can afford to spend that have the most influence on families, not social and political trends.
OK, This is too funny.
I write an essay about how the benefits of family life outweigh the costs. Gryph reads it and all he can see is “victimhood.”
And he begins his own screed against alleged victimhood by whining (in a victimish way) that he has to work while someone with a family takes advantage of a benefit they are legally entitled to.
Priceless.
Gryph has this little game he plays wherein anytime anyone acknowledges that there are challenges in life, he shrieks “victimhood.” When in fact, the only real victims are people who let obstacles keep them from achieving their goals (and people who whine that it’s the government’s job to solve their problems for them). If you overcome the challenges that stand between you are your goals, you are very much the opposite of a victim.
See GP? I knew I could get a discussion started, even if it only consists of insults, mis-characterizations, and other silliness from that perpetual fountain of such things, V the K.
#0 – Quick point of philosophy / terminology:
What your article refers to as “selflessness” is actual selfishness of the good kind – Commitment to one’s own deepest and most meaningful values and aspirations; the refusal to accept substitutes being pushed by others (e.g., Gay Left).
And what your article refers to as “selfishness” or “selfish gratification” is actual selflessness – The abandonment of one’s deepest values/aspirations; the willingness to settle, instead, for mere bars – shopping malls – games – toys – sex – drugs – peer approval – etc.
But I know that’s a non-standard use / interpretation of the words. I don’t demand that you go my way. When I read your articles / comments, I can make the necessary (for me) interpolations.
As for the Gryph stuff – Don’t mind him.
#6 – ROFL 🙂 …Gryph oh-so-crudely playing for a wedge btw V and GP… notwithstanding the fact that no ‘regular’ tries harder than Gryph to insult or spit on GP, his host.
As for the Gryph stuff – Don’t mind him.
As if I ever would. It would be interesting if someone from the other side could just once bring something other than stale talking points (or childish name-calling) to a debate… but it hasn’t happened yet. And as you can see, when the talking points are blown away… they really don’t have anything to back them up.
VtheK should relax.
Me thinks he doth protest too much.
Your blog should speak for itself and have no need for explaining….don’t you think?
Cry baby.
monty
A question to Michigan-Matt:
What is your opinion on the the role of a mother in raising children and therefore, your children’s lack of a mother?
i’m sure the kids will feel special once they read they cost you opportunities…
Interesting post, but, regarding
Why do unstraight people go to such lengths to parent when both the Anti-Family Left** and the Anti-Gay Right have it in for them?
I’ll merely point out that it isn’t exactly the Anti-Family Left that is threatening to tear the Lofton family apart. It is the Anti-Family Right.
#12: They already know that there have been occasions when I have put their needs for stability and homelife ahead of my own personal opportunities. It teaches them that their well-being is my top priority, and someday they should raise their own children with that in mind.
John, easy answer… we make pretty good mothers; we’re strongly centered on listening, helping, empathy, and I think we understand the core utility of emotional support for our son. I don’t worry about his competitive strength, ability to work as a team member, nor his leadership skills –he’s got those in abundance and it is evident even now. He generally leads his classmates… he’s an agressive soccer-baseball-basketball-lacrosse player… he knows the importance of sportsmanship and fair play. While his classmates are same-sex peer group oriented, he plays equally with girls and guys.
I think it’s that my partner and I both had strong, solid Mothers and grandmothers that allows us to be good parents. As well as strong Dads, grandfathers. We both find ourselves thinking… now, what would they do in this case? For us, it works.
For instance, for the first 4-5 months of his life, when we took naps, our son slept on my chest… bonding. A stroy right out of my childhood. When our son got tired, he’d climb up into one of our laps and sleep like a baby when we weren’t at home. We both fought to get to the frig first for the 2AM feeding… sometimes with both of us with him for the feeding and then returning to bed 45 minutes later. There’s nothing like holding a newborn in the wee small hours of the morning and understanding what it is to be motherlike… I think those acts are even more selfless than the broader culture expects from male parents.
Does every child need a mother and father? Yeah, I think so. Because each side of parenting brings to the parenting role a unique training and compliment of talents… can two gay guys do it? Yeah; if they understand and appreciate what’s unique about being a mother and father and why those roles are critical to a child’s success. It isn’t easy… in some ways, it’s harder. But with good will, full attention and God’s patient help, it can happen in a magical, wonder-filled way.
Does our son “lack a mother”? Nope. We’ve worked hard, studied harder, learned more and are vigilant in our efforts to stress the maternal role… we both think it is successful. But it takes all that and a lot more to do it well.
What do you think?
Gramps writes at #3: “In fact I’ll go as far to say that having families and children are not always good for civilization or individuals. Dysfunctional families create dysfunctional people by and large. Thats a drag on our culture, not a benefit.”
I write this with some trepidation, but I think the writer is letting his own past experience (which in other comments sounded closer to dysfunctional than anything approaching even the fringe of “happy family life”) distort what is universally regarded as one of the highest callings in American society: being a good parent, raising a family.
As in our gay culture, victimhood and an ego-centric drive to gratify self at the expense of others doesn’t work in role modeling “parent” (unless you’re Anderson Cooper’s Mommie-dearest). VdaK has etched that point with a fine, steady hand here.
I know why few gay people seek to be civilly bound, even though it is THE plank of the gay rights agenda –because a majority of gays are comfortable with multiple LTRs over a lifetime. It is a gesture that rises from the pit of selfishness and ego-driven actions. I think those people would be failures as parents –better to leave them to their own journey.
No Gramps, just because there are dysfunctional families out there doesn’t mean you can indict an entire institution.
In the end, tolerance and diversity in our society isn’t going to be won by GayLeft activists finding a federal judge who feels their victimization. It isn’t going to be achieved by ActUp and MikeRogers types screaming profanities and outing/smearing others.
It’s going to happen because guys like VdaK and Bruce and Dan and others here are willing to engage, persuade, debate and hold accountable those who come to know them as gay.
I know my partner and I have far better acceptance among parents, teachers, coaches and others who understand what “family” means… and some of the least tolerant people I’ve found are gay men.
Go figure? Kind of like wearing a “Bush in 08” baseball cap to a Pride parade… it’s beyond some people to comprehend.
It isn’t going to be achieved by ActUp and MikeRogers types screaming profanities and outing/smearing others.
Some people would just rather burn heretics than win converts.
4: “And he begins his own screed against alleged victimhood by whining (in a victimish way) that he has to work while someone with a family takes advantage of a benefit they are legally entitled to.”
Which Republican groups, like the GOP of Texas, have fiercely stated they don’t want to apply to same sex couples with children and nullify the rights you say that he whines about.
The comments on the three threads related to our articles illustrate one of our points nicely. The more conservative types here have expressed support for Michigan-Matt and me raising our families (especially GP for giving us the space to talk about it on his blog), while the only people who’ve been snide and critical are those who usually position themselves on the gay activist left side of the aisle.
(And, no, Gryph, this is not “victimhood,” because I am not complaining about it just observing it, much less running to the government crying “make it stop! make it stop!”)
Hello-
Just a question to the gay parents ..to whom I give a high-five to…but I am not at the point in my life to have kids(no, I’m not a mall whore or a bayfly:)). I often hear of horror stories regarding gay parents who lose their kids to court cases: because they’re gay (the parents, not the kids!). Is this hype, or is this a real concern for gay parents? And I’m not trying to be a scare-monger…only attempting to understand the dynamics or possible pitfalls of raising children when both parents are gay.
P.S. happy belated father’s day!
G
VtheK, thanks for the reply. My post was actually a bit more facetious than serious. I just thought it was an odd phrase. Any one not willing to give up self gratification for the kiddies, don’t deserve the kiddies. you have clearly demonstrated in these posts that you are givin’ it up for the kiddies. big props.
Which Republican groups, like the GOP of Texas, have fiercely stated they don’t want to apply to same sex couples with children and nullify the rights you say that he whines about.
Really? Where does it say that gay workers aren’t allowed to take vacation?
Right after the concentration camp part, I suppose.
Gustav, thanks for the sentiments. I’ll let VdaK answer your question in his own words but for me, being a gay partnered parent was a problem only once.
In Ann Arbor, where we live, the judges here are some of the most liberal, progressive, Democrats around –I think the last GOP judge was elected in the late 1960’s.
A black female judge with a strong civil rights activist pollitical career was the one who told me that a “true family” –her words– had a mom and dad and the birthparents were right in reversing their decision to place the child with us –even though the birthparents explained to the judge they weren’t getting married, wouldn’t be together, intended to live in separate cities at a distance of 600 miles, would rely on granparents to help raise the child, etc. She was the one the birthparents were assigned when the reversal went through her court. She told me that being a gay parent would be a tough task to accomplish until the Legislature changed the laws of the State and people’s attitudes changed. She tried to do the “my hands are tied” line but we told her to hold that thought and walked out of her chamber.
The boy is now 8 and has had a crappy childhood so far. When the birthparents got together, they fought over old issues and engaged in domestic abuse… the grandparents shuttled the boy between 4 different homes for the 1st 7 years of his life… he is emotionally impaired, the birthmom is pushing to get an ADHD designation so he can get special school-supported treatment, both birthparents have married and been divorced… and that’s just the tip of his story.
Yep, that judge was right… the part that burns is that she –of all types– should “have known better”. Her political credentials would have said “tolerance, respect, acceptance, equality”. She should have known better.
The judge served a single term. A group of concerned parents here worked hard to make certain she wasn’t returned to the bench. We knew better.
So being open about your relationship and lifestyle can hurt. Even in one of America’s most liberal, Leftist, Democrat stronghold cities.
What Michigan-Matt said. Frankly, I have no first-hand knowledge of gay parents losing their kids in court cases.
I do know that custody fights can become very bitter and nasty, and it does not surprise me at that all kinds of allegations are made.
To Matt in #15
What do I think? To tell you the truth, I haven’t really made up my mind on the topic, that’s why I asked. Thanks for the thoughtful response.
MI-Matt-
That poor kid; it’s stories like that make me question the straight-stronghold on “family values”. But I won’t go there; sounds so liberal ;). The judge in question: it is funny how the most liberal can be the most closed minded. Full disclosure: I live in the Ferndale/ Royal Oak MI area…the supposed gay-friendly ghettos. Yet all that seems to do is gentrify the place. Gay-rights issues (anti-discimination) on the ballot have yet to pass in either of these towns throughout the years. Diversity, or whatever one wants to call it, is sort of the “unspoken” thing here. Those who’s property values skyrocketed in the last 10-15 years (and this area was desolate back then) know the score.
By all that I’m trying to say that the “experts” often don’t know their a** from a hole in the ground!
I just wanted to comment that I think this series has been very good. I didn’t get a chance to read the rest-since my kids and I were visiting family in another state for the last week.
I agree that being a parent means giving up some things, but it is a worthwhile sacrifice.
And Gryph just have to say that your whine doesn’t thrill me too much. I am a mom to four children, I got exactly 10 sick days and three personal days for my job, I took 4 1/2 sick days and none of my personal days, while two of the single women I work with took all ten of their sick days and all of their personal days. Being a parent doesn’t mean we are out to soak the singles people we work with, but the reality is that if one of my kids is sick, either my husband or I have to take a day or so off from work, to leave them at home alone I think we can agree would be neglect. If a single person I work with is sick, I don’t begrudge them their sick day, and fankly being at home with a sick child isn’t exactly a fun way to spend the day.
just me, well written. I hope the victimhood-poster-senior Gryph reads it… it amazes that so many mean-spirited, petty gay people actually think single heteros are “out” to get them. Gryph is just bitter about his dysfunctional childhood and he’s angling for some compensation in his golden years.