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Katrina One Year Later: The Myths

Call me heartless (many of you do anyway), but I can’t quite decide which female I’m more tired of hearing about right now — Jon Benet or Katrina.

In the GayPatriot spirit of snarkiness, I’d like you all to nominate your favorite media-driven Katrina myth that the American public now believes is absolute fact.

My favorite:  That the Federal Government blew up the levees because “George Bush hates black people.”  (Spike Lee continues to promote this lie….)

FACT:  More white people died in Katrina than any other ethnic group.

My other favorite Katrina story line is that while Ray Nagin couldn’t get these buses started to help his people leave the city before the storm hit, he had no problem finding buses to bring people back to New Orleans for his primary election win.

 

katrinabuses2.jpg

So nominate away for your favorite hysteria-driven myth (*cough* LIE *cough*) from the drive-by media. 

**MORNING UPDATE** – Mayor “Motormouth” Nagin is at it again, taking a shot at Ground Zero in New York City

When a “60 Minutes” correspondent pointed out flood-damaged cars on the streets, Nagin shot back, “You guys in New York can’t get a hole in the ground fixed, and it’s five years later. So let’s be fair,” according to CBS.

Does this man have no shame?

-Bruce (GayPatriot)

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119 Comments

  1. [...] goes to Gay Patriot, for this gem: [...]

    Pingback by Right Wing Nation » Blog Archive » Today’s Zinger — August 25, 2006 @ 8:06 am - August 25, 2006

  2. How about, Bush Sent Jets From the Texas ANG to Drive Katrina to New Orleans. (I know it’s not MSM conventional wisdom yet, but give it time.)

    As for current MSM myths, the one that grinds my gears is that the response was slow, when in fact, USCG helos were pulling out victims within two hours of the end of the storm, and the actual deployment of over 100,000 military and civilian rescue workers was the fastest and largest in history.

    Also, the MSM myth that Bush was “on vacation and just didn’t give a damn.”

    By the way, the Mississippi coast was far more devastated than New Orleans, but since its political leadership actually went to work on recovery instead of whining and trying to blame Bush for everything, Mississippi is much further along in its recovery — and that’s no myth.

    And now, I read that the same Democrats that a year ago demanded that reconstruction begin immediately are now whining about “no bid contracts,” never mind that if standard procurement procedures had been used… they would still be holding meetings to decide the color of the cover on the ‘Request for Proposals.’ I mean, look at the WTC, for Set’s sake. 5 yrs after 9-11 and it’s still just a hole in the ground. And the Democrats are whining because that kind of bureaucratic process wasn’t followed in the mad rush to spend as much money as possible in the wake of Hurricane Katrina (a rush in which the Democrats eagerly participated?)

    Comment by V the K — August 25, 2006 @ 8:33 am - August 25, 2006

  3. All those murders in the superdome.

    Funny, when they all left, I don’t recall any massive homicide investigations going on, or even seeing pictures of the victims.

    Comment by just me — August 25, 2006 @ 9:12 am - August 25, 2006

  4. bush’s presidency “jumped the shark” with the american public during the woeful federal response to katrina. people saw him playing a guitar while drownings occured. people heard his mother state that people had it pretty good stuffed into the houston astrodome; oh, how marie antoinette. michael brown was underqualified for his job and people of the gulf coast paid the price for his and the federal gov’t ineptness. bush will forever be known as a fraud due to his poor effort. that is no myth.

    Comment by rightiswrong — August 25, 2006 @ 9:27 am - August 25, 2006

  5. I’m going to be very glad next Wedensday, when I no longer have to listen to that whiny “Katrina special” ad on Discovery. The downside is I’ll still have to listen to the whiny “9/11 toxins” ad for another Discovery show until 9/12.

    Whine, whine, whine, whine, I’m sick of it.

    Comment by rightwingprof — August 25, 2006 @ 9:28 am - August 25, 2006

  6. You know, I dread hurricanes less for the destruction than for the ridiculous media hype and subsequent political whining that accompanies them.

    Comment by V the K — August 25, 2006 @ 9:49 am - August 25, 2006

  7. (1) “Bush was incompetent”. Fact: Katrina relief and rescue was the fastest operation of its scale in history.

    (2) “10,000 dead”. Bzzzzzzzzzzzzt! wrong answer.

    (3) “Katrina proves we need more government”, when big government is precisely what made Katrina worse (to the extent that it did kill and devastate). Poor people in N.O. being kept poor and passive; N.O. police bloated and corrupt and incompetent; N.O. mayor and LA governor acting like passive complainers with their heads cut off, rather than as leaders. So, Katrina proved the exact opposite: that we would all be better off with a far smaller government.

    (4) “SUVs caused Katrina” and “Bush causes the weather; if only Bush accepted the Kyoto Protocol, we wouldn’t have had Katrina.” Shooting down Kyoto is too easy; I’ll go on.

    (5) “The media are informative, accurate, conservative and honest”. The exact opposite adjectives are clearly the case.

    Comment by Calarato — August 25, 2006 @ 9:51 am - August 25, 2006

  8. Oh, and:

    (6) “Katrina means the end of the Bush Administration.” Uhhhhh…. how?????? to put it another way: Why should it? See items (1)-(5).

    Comment by Calarato — August 25, 2006 @ 9:55 am - August 25, 2006

  9. Myth: Geo Bush is not sending every spare US dollar to Iraq, he is helping to rebuild New Orleans.

    Comment by Joker9 — August 25, 2006 @ 10:20 am - August 25, 2006

  10. “The American Public” believes the government blew up the levees? Show me ten, no show me TWO, people who believe that crap. What the hell are you talking about? No sane person believes that. The fact is, the government, at all levels, failed the American people. And George Bush is an utter, miserable failure as a President.

    Comment by TG — August 25, 2006 @ 10:25 am - August 25, 2006

  11. TG, let’s get this str8. One person is your poliltical ally and waterboy for the radical Left in the Democrat Party Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan. http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/16/11533.shtml

    Second, two AirAmerica hosts –Chuck D and Rachel Maddow.

    I know, I know; your dodge and spin will be –”but they didn’t say Rev and Dr Farrakhan was right”… they just didn’t say he was wrong. OK, dodge and spin away.

    Person Number 4… Malik Shabazz –the Black Panther leader– who says that black Mayor Nagin of NO told him so… even if Nagin later denied it. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,172586,00.html

    Person Number 5… long time Democrat Party activist and supporter Spike Lee. http://newsbusters.org/node/2441

    Shall we keep going, TG? Or are you back to work at the DNC headquarters stuffing ballots in the Dean Conference Room for another stolen election?

    Comment by Michigan-Matt — August 25, 2006 @ 11:06 am - August 25, 2006

  12. Gay Patriot,

    you are heartless!

    Satisfied?

    Comment by R.Mutt — August 25, 2006 @ 11:29 am - August 25, 2006

  13. Did you even read your link…48% were african american, 41% white and miscellaneous asian, hispanic, etc.

    As for the “fact” that the relief effort was the fastest ever, just ask people in florida how fast they were relieved and rebuilt!

    Comment by madmatt — August 25, 2006 @ 11:40 am - August 25, 2006

  14. I can’t believe how you fellas are trying to white wash the past.
    Stop trying to trivialize the disaster of the Gulf Coast.
    Only a person blinded by ideology would claim that the gov did a good job.
    And only the same person can blame the problem on the Media.
    You guys are becoming more and more ridiculous
    Further Matt,
    Farrakhan is to the democrats as Westboro Baptists are to republicans.
    You don’t want to start the “Who has the zaniest extremists” game…you will regret it.

    Comment by keogh — August 25, 2006 @ 11:45 am - August 25, 2006

  15. Nagin, is an asshole, on the other hand… the ultimate fuck you would have been to rebuild The Towers. There’s no excuse for what has taken place here.

    Comment by Nelson G. — August 25, 2006 @ 11:57 am - August 25, 2006

  16. The WTO is more heart-rending than the Katrina crisis because was it was a man-made event.

    That being said, its not comparable to evacuation and devastation of an entire city, especially one the size of New Orleans.

    And madmatt is right, you should read your own links GP, the majority of deaths were African Americans. That doesn’t mean that there was a conspiracy to blow up the levees. What it does mean, is that as usual, this blog is not a source of accurate information but is instead devoted to “spin”.

    So spin away GP, you dizzy queen.

    Comment by Patrick (Gryph) — August 25, 2006 @ 12:44 pm - August 25, 2006

  17. Once more, Gryph raises the awkward and pitiful question of what kind of person he himself must be, if his words are true and yet he comes back again and again and again.

    LOL :-)

    Comment by Calarato — August 25, 2006 @ 1:08 pm - August 25, 2006

  18. #13 Actually, Phelps and the Westboro folks are Democrats. Another part of Dr. Dean’s Big Tent.

    #12 Perhaps GP should have rephrase it to say disproportionally it was less deadly for Blacks since they were over 60% of the pre-storm population. I suppose this fits in nicely with the Spike Lee, Farrakan theory except that the REAL reason for blowing the levees was to put it to The Man.

    Comment by BoBo — August 25, 2006 @ 1:52 pm - August 25, 2006

  19. It never ceases to amaze me at how people will believe ANYTHING about their worst enemy, instead of investigating the truth for themselves…

    I remember watching TV that Sunday, and on the screen the reporter was showing the freeways through the city. The freeways that lead OUT of the city was packed, but the freeways that lead INTO the city wasn’t being used. If I was Nagin, I would have used EVERY road as a way to get out of that town BEFORE the hurricane hit.

    Why didn’t he? It was because of the ARROGANCE that the people of that city had before Katrina. I remember reporters asking residents in that city if they were going to leave before Katrina hit and they responded with, “Nah! I’ve lived through two or three hurricanes before…and I know that I’m gonna make it throught this one. I was born in this town…and I’m just gonna stay here ’til I die.”

    A reporter found that same woman AFTER Katrina and asked her if she was mad at the goverment for abandoning her. She, unlike Sharpton and West, said this: “Yes, I am mad…But I am mostly mad at MYSELF! I stayed when I had the chance to leave.”

    Finally! Someone here had the guts to take responsibility for their OWN stupidity!

    Comment by Jeffrey Williams — August 25, 2006 @ 3:03 pm - August 25, 2006

  20. Biggest myth?

    Bush can be trusted to protect the American public.
    He got a mulligan on 9/11. No such luck on Katrina, especially because he ran for re-election on his ability to protect Americans.

    Whereas Kerry was greasing up the meat grinder to put americans in, I (and rove) suppose.

    Comment by Robert — August 25, 2006 @ 3:07 pm - August 25, 2006

  21. How does the Maher transcript support your premise that the levee conspiracy is “media-driven.” Real Time with Bill Maher on subscription-required HBO is not the “media.” No media has done any reporting on the theory. And the two media representative on the show – Carlson (CNN, now MSNBC) and the ABC reporter – quickly and unabashedly shot down Lee’s statement:
    Lee: “Presidents have been assassinated. So why is that so far-fetched?”

    Martin: “Because it would require, because it would require no white person in the government to have a moral compass. It would require no black person to have a spine and I think that’s a very hard case to make.”

    It is truly amazing that after 6 years of unmitigated power in this country, the right-wing believes the blame for its failurs lies with the “MSM” and “libruls.” Party of personal responsibility? Ha.

    Comment by Settembrini — August 25, 2006 @ 3:09 pm - August 25, 2006

  22. Let’s be fair here. Yes, Nagin’s remark was a very cold and callous thing for a politician to say. But if you strip away all the nationalistic furor regarding 9/11…then the World Trade Center buildings really do become “a hole in the ground”.

    By the official counts, 2,749 died in NYC on 9/11. That’s not counting the other 224 people who died at the Pentagon and out in Shanksville. That’s a lot of siblings, parents, friends, and lovers. That’s a lot of people who meant the world to others, and the void they’ve left can never be filled. My admittedly emotional response is that no such attack should go unanswered and no such deaths should EVER go unavenged. That’s how I feel when I look at that “hole in the ground”, and sure it makes me want to slap Nagin.

    Unfortunately, emotions can only carry you so far. One must temper their emotions with reason, lest their pain cause them to become completely unreasoning in their responses.

    Let’s look at harsh reality: Since the attacks back in 2001, 171, 501 people have died out on America’s roadways. That’s right, One Hundred Seventy One THOUSAND people dead in vehiclular collisions. Just as a quick math exercise, that’s the equivalent of 57 September 11th attacks, or one every month between 2002-2005, with about 10 “bonus” attacks left over.

    I’m not trying to lessen the deaths of the people who died on 9/11, but let’s be realistic: a whole lot more people have been killed in a much more mundane fashion before 9/11, and since 9/11, and I don’t see it stopping anytime soon. Where’s the outcry? Americans are much more likely to die in a traffic collision than they are to die from a terrorist attack. That’s plain reality. Why aren’t we spending billions of dollars every year on reducing traffic collision deaths? The simple fact is that in the US, traffic collisions have killed more people than terrorists ever have by an order of magnitude that by the grace of God will remain vast.

    The point is that people seem to think that the 9/11 attacks are some kind of untouchable thing, that you just can’t “go there”. Nagin had a point to make, and he did a good job of making it. That he shoved his foot in his mouth in the process didn’t make him any less correct. NYC has had 5 years to re-build a small portion of damaged cityscape. I don’t see a whole lot of anything rebuilt. The entirity of New Orleans was hit by Katrina, and it’s only been a year. In the cold, harsh light of reality, Nagin’s right. NYC has “a hole in the ground” to fix, and he’s got an entire city to rebuild. There’s a difference between the two, no matter how much nationalistic or emotional attachment one has to the 9/11 attacks.

    Comment by n. nescio — August 25, 2006 @ 3:45 pm - August 25, 2006

  23. More whites died PER CAPITA than blacks.

    Comment by Tom — August 25, 2006 @ 3:50 pm - August 25, 2006

  24. More whites died PER CAPITA than blacks.

    Tom, you’re expecting liberals to understand that concept? They don’t even understand national deficit as a percentage of GDP.

    Comment by Dalebert — August 25, 2006 @ 4:27 pm - August 25, 2006

  25. #21: So, n. nescio, how many Americans have to be murdered by terrorists before we should take the problem seriously. 10,000? 100,000? How much blood has to be spilled in order for you to acknowledge that terrorism is a threat, or is it okay as long as it doesn’t happen to you?

    Or, since those deaths are most likely to come from the common people, should the elite not concern themselves? After all, who cares if the terrorists blow up a few airliners if you’ve got a Gulfstream V parked at Islip?

    Comment by V the K — August 25, 2006 @ 5:06 pm - August 25, 2006

  26. #24: Thank you for entirely sidestepping my post in order to take potshots at me for not letting fear rule my judgements. Being alive is quite deadly enough as it is, so you’ll have to pardon me if I don’t want to live my life in fear of terrorists. Isn’t making us afraid their mission anyway? Once you get over the fact that you WILL die at some point, it’s much harder for somebody to sway your opinions using the fear of death.

    I have no desire for my post about how Nagin was entirely correct in his statement to be re-framed into some sort of accusation that I don’t think terrorist attacks are a big deal. They are. Really. I’m not going to spend any further time discussing my feelings on that matter.

    All I said in my previous post is that if you strip away all the nationalistic and political and emotional elements that the media, the government, and people in general have attached to the 9/11 attacks, and look at them in the context of other deaths that occur EVERY SINGLE DAY in this country – that is to say, in the cold, harsh light of reality; you will find that Nagin was entirely correct in his statement that NYC can’t get a hole in the ground fixed.

    You’ll notice that the last line of the post was attacking him for….being honest? Not taking the weepy hand-wringing “oh my GOD we’ve been attacked” fear-based response to 9/11 and enshrining it as some sort of sacred event that cannot be mentioned negatively? Here’s a fun exercise: go out onto the streets and ask people in their teens-20s the day that Pearl Harbor was bombed by the Japanese, or the day that the RMS Lusitania was sank by the Germans. Get ready for some blank stares.

    The tragic, horrific event that you choose to let dominate your life today will become tomorrow’s dull history lesson. Don’t believe me? Go ask the Carthaginians.

    Comment by n. nescio — August 25, 2006 @ 5:42 pm - August 25, 2006

  27. The cleanup of the WTC started immediately, and was carried out around the clock until it was done. The hole in the ground (a cleaned-up vacant hole) is there because there has not yet been agreement on what to build there. A big difference from flooded vehicles still sitting on city streets and flooded, inhabitable homes that should be condemned and bulldozed still sitting idle

    Comment by windybon — August 25, 2006 @ 7:03 pm - August 25, 2006

  28. I remember hearing about all the “rapes” occuring in the Superdome. The sisterhood was up in arms. Then there was silence. Matt Welch on his blog did some good follow-up work and found that the accusations were groundless. No word on that from the media and no follow up statements from the sisterhood.

    Comment by Jim G — August 25, 2006 @ 7:22 pm - August 25, 2006

  29. Good point, Windybon. Nagin is trying to say that New York’s failure to reconstruct two of the tallest office buildings in the world is somehow equivalent to his inability to get flooded-out cars off the streets.

    Evidently he thinks you can rebuild the WTC in the fifteen minutes it takes to get a tow truck and move them.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — August 25, 2006 @ 7:34 pm - August 25, 2006

  30. Caralato:

    Once more, Gryph raises the awkward and pitiful question of what kind of person he himself must be, if his words are true and yet he comes back again and again and again.

    LOL

    Someone has to give this place some class, and it sure ain’t going to be you!

    Comment by Patrick (Gryph) — August 25, 2006 @ 8:04 pm - August 25, 2006

  31. Oh, can’t we all just agree that the failure to rebuild the WTC or clean-up N’Orleans both demonstrate the folly of letting liberals run major cities?

    Comment by V the K — August 25, 2006 @ 8:04 pm - August 25, 2006

  32. There was a wind storm, really localized damage, blew hundreds of trees over. Not everyone has chainsaws much less the equiptment for taking out tree stumps… so people write to the papers complaining about getting help from the State, because the economy is tight enough that even a few hundred dollars can break budgets, and demanding action be taken against price gouging by the people with stump grinders. My feeling, what a bunch of whiners. A hole in your roof is a problem. A tree half uprooted in the back yard is unsightly. Get over it, the guy with the stump grinder won’t be overbooked next year.

    New Orleans is different in some ways and the same in others. A wrecked car or boat on the side of the road is unsightly. Big deal. Other stuff has to come first. But the scale means that resources, material or labor or transportation, aren’t going to meet demand. If there aren’t enough stump grinders in Minnesota to take care of cleaning up one corner of a single county, there aren’t going to be enough in Louisiana for Katrina clean up. No government wand waving will change that. But something else is different too… most of recovery after a natural disaster comes from the community pitching in, helping neighbors… scale is an issue, but so is the fact that people just aren’t there. They’re still in Houston.

    Comment by Synova — August 25, 2006 @ 8:07 pm - August 25, 2006

  33. #30: Wholeheartedly agreed, and I’m a liberal.

    Comment by n. nescio — August 25, 2006 @ 8:18 pm - August 25, 2006

  34. I know I don’t need to say this, but, just for the record:

    Gryph, comment #29 is as psychotic and delusional as any comment we’ve seen from you.

    Comment by Calarato — August 25, 2006 @ 8:45 pm - August 25, 2006

  35. White people do not constitute an “ethnic group”. Use the ‘R’ word when necessary: race.

    Comment by jimmy — August 25, 2006 @ 9:08 pm - August 25, 2006

  36. My favorite myth: New Orleans disappeared under Clinton’s watch.

    Comment by jimmy — August 25, 2006 @ 9:09 pm - August 25, 2006

  37. Why are we so afraid to call Nagin out for what he is: a racist, an insensitive racist, an ignorant insensitive racist? He’s proven the first rubric by his ChocolateCity remarks. He proved the second with his riding stick and white horse in the parade (did he look like a British plantation overlord from the tropics or just a parody of a B-grade Hollywood actor?). He proved the third one by his recent WTC/NYC comment.

    And why are we so afraid to call the people of NO what they are: idiots for allowing this man to remain mayor? NO is a rotting hellhole because it’s legacy is French –what more needs saying about idiots?

    And for Bush to try to temper Nagin and woo him over to the federal trough… God, that’s desperate. Politics makes strange bedfellows.

    My favorite myth? “Katrina didn’t kill NO; it’ll be better after we finish rebuilding.” No, it’ll be just more corrupt and Americans will still have nothing to show for it.

    Comment by Michigan-Matt — August 25, 2006 @ 9:56 pm - August 25, 2006

  38. I’m still trying to pick myself up off the floor after hearing the comment about the “hole” in NYC getting fixed! Why is it that liberals are incapable of taking ownership of their ignorant actions? Nothing is ever their fault. In this situation, the Federal Government was wrong, blah blah blah. I can’t believe he’s still in office down there. Why is everything the “fault of the white man?!”

    Comment by Captain Cox — August 25, 2006 @ 10:12 pm - August 25, 2006

  39. #36 – Now, Matt. NO isn’t a rotting hellhole due to its French legacy. The good French-ified residents of NO helped Andrew Jackson win the famous Battle of NO. The French colonial tradition used to be one of toughness.

    NO became a rotting hellhole for America’s poor due to (1) its modern-day Big Government dependency habits, and (2) racists of various kinds, including Nagin, who I am not afraid to call a racist. He is.

    Comment by Calarato — August 25, 2006 @ 10:58 pm - August 25, 2006

  40. 26: And some buildings which, almost a year later, apparently have dead bodies in them….

    Comment by Kevin — August 25, 2006 @ 11:23 pm - August 25, 2006

  41. #17 Fred is a purported to be registered as a Democrat. Do you have information about the rest of the clan? Produce it. Further, do you know, and can you produce the proof that Fred and the clan vote democratic in every race? Fred may be registered D, but he is a theocrat and they are generally in your camp.

    Comment by blah — August 25, 2006 @ 11:45 pm - August 25, 2006

  42. #24 do even you know who worked in the twin towers? It wasn’t all janitors etc.

    Comment by blah — August 25, 2006 @ 11:55 pm - August 25, 2006

  43. Hé, Matt! Michigan est comment on épelle ce mot-là algonquin en français.

    Comment by blah — August 26, 2006 @ 12:13 am - August 26, 2006

  44. Everything you need to know about Chimpy McCokespoon is revealed in his compassionate welcome to the White House of that poor homeless victim of Katrina, ROCKEY VACCARELLA http://tinyurl.com/k38nl and the fact that Chimpy likes farting at new interns http://tinyurl.com/oom3a. Yep, that’s your hero: a phony vulgar frat boy who would be king.

    Comment by Ian — August 26, 2006 @ 12:44 am - August 26, 2006

  45. Gosh, I thought I was alone. At this point, I can’t stand the word Katrina and will not be watching any of the whine fests for the “anniversary.”

    My fave myth is that the majority of the New Orleans’ damage was caused by Katrina. Wrong! It was the failure of the levees that flooded the city and provided all that dramatic tv footage. Katrina had already passsed when the levees failed! Gov. Blanco went on air to announce that the danger was over and then New Orleans flooded. Oopsy! Over the last 50 years (pre-Bush) who stole all the money to repair and maintain the levees? *cough* democrats *cough*

    Comment by blackredneck — August 26, 2006 @ 1:10 am - August 26, 2006

  46. #40 I thing the ball is in your court to prove that a registered Dem and his spawn who otherwise march in lock step with him, vote otherwise.

    #43 IanRaj, nice try but being a fake and sockpuppet kinda kills your credibility. Also, regarding this Chimpy McCokespoon fella, isn’t he the convicted criminal from Arkansas who got impeached and disbarred? Just in case you forgot, he’s on your team.

    Comment by BoBo — August 26, 2006 @ 1:22 am - August 26, 2006

  47. From the post

    FACT: More white people died in Katrina than any other ethnic group.

    That may be a fact, but it is also an irrelevant fact. The operative issue isn’t the number of white or black people who died as a result of Katrina. (For those of us from the OC who are familiar with Hurricane Camilla in 1969, more than a few white people in Mississipp died there, too, while they were partying.) The operative issue, from a racial standpoint, is who was displaced as a result of Katrina, and who was not permitted to return, and, in addition, whose houses are being bulldozed as a result of Katrina.

    Bruce, you may not like it, but the fact is that most of the people who were displaced by Katrina in NOLA were Negroes, and that most of the little houses that were previously occupied in NOLA are now in danger of being demolished were those of Negroes. That’s the racial aspect of this. You might not like it, but it’s true.

    I find it amusing that you want to place this on a Republican/Democrat tableau. Look, let’s understand something. As far as I’m concerned, Mayor Nagin is exactly like Bush. He’s an MBA from somewhere, just like Bush. He was as incompetent as Bush was and still is. What do you mean to prove with this post? That Nagin is incompetent? Bush & Nagin are like peas in a pod: both were and are incompetent.

    On another topic, you ascientific people really do need to learn something. New Orlean’s fate was sealed decades ago, when the FedGov, via the Army Corps of non-Engineers, decided to do a channeling of the Mississippi River. The channeling of the MissRiv led to a subsidence of the land mass underneath much of NOLA relative to sea level, which, in turn, led to this problem in NOLA. This had nothing to do with race. It had everything to do with the Army Corps of non-Engineers’ attempts at flood control along the MissRiv (much of which actually went for naught) primarily for the benefit of those agricultural interests who were primarily upstream of NOLA. Nothing to do with race, everything to do with economic interests. And nothing to do with political party, either. It had everything to do with the damage to the environment caused by FedGov policies.

    Comment by raj — August 26, 2006 @ 1:26 am - August 26, 2006

  48. Oh, one more thing.

    Question to Mr. Bruce. The reason that you did not get off your butt and voluneer to pilot those school-busses in your picture, is, exactly, what?

    Are you another member of the yellowelephantbrigade?

    Comment by raj — August 26, 2006 @ 2:12 am - August 26, 2006

  49. I love it how the rajIan elements (a) disappear from GP for days at basically the same time, then (b) show up again at basically the same time.

    Comment by Calarato — August 26, 2006 @ 2:19 am - August 26, 2006

  50. and c.) return to spewing the same hate-filled, fact-and-logic devoid, angry lunatic-left talking points he/they/it always have.

    Comment by V the K — August 26, 2006 @ 9:06 am - August 26, 2006

  51. #23 That was really funny!!!

    Comment by Mike — August 26, 2006 @ 10:39 am - August 26, 2006

  52. Calarato, VdaK… take a look at our the Left’s newest ankle biter, “blah”. Does the syntax employed seem a little too close to the sockpuppet styling artistries of raj/Ian?

    And at #47 the un-atoned raj reinvents the Left’s favorite smear: ChickenHawk now gets applied to the Nagin Bus Brigade.

    Why is it that people on the Left seem to want to dishonor the principles of compassionate service to others –a core value found mostly on the Right and severely lacking on the Left– by turning that noble principle into a smear tactic in the gutter games of character assasination?

    Sorry, just a rhetorical question that’s off topic.

    Comment by Michigan-Matt — August 26, 2006 @ 10:51 am - August 26, 2006

  53. #48: “I love it how the rajIan elements (a) disappear from GP for days at basically the same time, then (b) show up again at basically the same time.”

    You keep meticulous track of everyone who posts here? Gee, I guess you missed us. How sweet. And I thought you once said you avoid reading our comments. BTW, did you notice how Bruce commented the other day about the IP address showing someone posting from Canada? No doubt he has compared the location of the IP addresses for raj and me and found we’re at opposite ends of the country. Yet he continues to let you sockpuppet conspiracists twist in the wind. Oh well, if it gets all you guys poring over our comments to create presence/absence timelines and compare writing styles then I won’t complain.

    Comment by Ian — August 26, 2006 @ 11:17 am - August 26, 2006

  54. #51 – Good questions, Matt.

    And since this thread has entered the off-topic stage more or less… Here is the Inspiring Sight for the Day:

    http://newsbusters.org/node/7190

    Christopher Hitchens, a relatively sane and principled leftist, cheerfully giving the finger to Bill Maher’s audience of stupid-childish-and-hateful leftists. :-)

    Comment by Calarato — August 26, 2006 @ 11:42 am - August 26, 2006

  55. ChickenHawk now gets applied to the Nagin Bus Brigade.

    I guess it’s now fair to slap any lefty who complains about resource depletion, global warming, or overpopulation but refuses to kill himself.

    Or any lefty who whines about the deficit, but doesn’t voluntarily pay taxes at the 70% marginal rates that prevailed pre-Ronaldus Magnus.

    And on that, and since we left the topic behind long ago, I just found out one of my co-workers was an assistant press secretary under Reagan. Quul.

    Comment by V the K — August 26, 2006 @ 12:09 pm - August 26, 2006

  56. This is what we learned from Katrina.

    Comment by rightwingprof — August 26, 2006 @ 12:40 pm - August 26, 2006

  57. And kudos, to Hitchens by the way. Since 2000, the left have become nothing more than a vast Pavlovian experiment, trained to slobber and cheer at any anti-Bush mauvais mots. Hitchens just said what anyone with any sane in his brain already thinks of the Pavlovian left.

    Comment by V the K — August 26, 2006 @ 1:00 pm - August 26, 2006

  58. Also, let’s note that with Russell Shaw’s recent piece hoping for a terrorist attack on the USA, the Huffbollah Post now officially supports the Islamist genocide of both Israelis and Americans.

    But please, don’t question their patriotism…

    Comment by V the K — August 26, 2006 @ 1:06 pm - August 26, 2006

  59. FACT: More white people died in Katrina than any other ethnic group.

    I wonder if Bruce is ever going to acknowledge the fact that his own source says that blacks did in fact have the largest number of deaths in Katrina?

    …Of the 883 bodies processed so far by medical examiners at St. Gabriel, 562 have been identified by race. Slightly less than half that number – 48 percent – are African-American.
    Forty-one percent are white, 8 percent unknown and 2 percent Hispanic.

    Where he gets out of that paragraph that more white people died is difficult to fathom, unless you realize its not about facts, its about Partisanship.

    Comment by Patrick (Gryph) — August 26, 2006 @ 1:16 pm - August 26, 2006

  60. Nagin has no shame. He has no brain either.

    Comment by Dave — August 26, 2006 @ 2:36 pm - August 26, 2006

  61. Hard to believe Nagin was a “successful” cable executive.

    But then again – so was guilt-ridden little rich boy, Ned Lamont! Correct? Maybe guys like them are the cable industry standard.

    Comment by Calarato — August 26, 2006 @ 2:46 pm - August 26, 2006

  62. Let’s discuss the cable industry, shall we? Since it seems to be a resume-builder for so many Democrat ‘businessman.’

    Most cable operators enjoy de facto and de jure monopolies in the areas they “serve.” They are heavily regulated by the government, and they strongly resist any attempts at deregulation and any attempt to inject competition into their industry… so that they can continue to charge ever higher rates (cable rates typically increase faster than inflation) and have little or no incentive to improve the level of service they provide.

    Which, come to think of it, sounds a lot like another industry in which democrats hold an effective monopoly, the public education system.

    So basically, Lamont and Nagin are just the scum that happened to rise to the top of an essentially socialistic, monopolistic, competition-free industry.

    No wonder so many of these “businessmen” are attracted to the Democrat party.

    Comment by V the K — August 26, 2006 @ 3:20 pm - August 26, 2006

  63. Of course. Thank you.

    Comment by Calarato — August 26, 2006 @ 3:33 pm - August 26, 2006

  64. (further explanation for others: there is a certain type of “business person” who WANTS government regulation, favors, the exclusion of competitors, “corporate welfare” subsidies, and so on; although the Republican Party is disgracefully in the game as well, for generations now, the Democratic Party has been the major or most natural home of such “business people”)

    Comment by Calarato — August 26, 2006 @ 3:39 pm - August 26, 2006

  65. if Ronald Reagan can make Americans believe that the majority of the welfare rolls consisted of African-Americans, then Spike Lee et. al. can say that George Bush hates black people. Given this country’s past, it is not huge leap to make with regard to the levee’s being deliberately blown-up.

    That said, while I have not seen the Spike’s Katrina documentary, I understand it was fair and balanced

    Comment by ralph — August 26, 2006 @ 4:14 pm - August 26, 2006

  66. #61: “So basically, Lamont and Nagin are just the scum that happened to rise to the top of an essentially socialistic, monopolistic, competition-free industry.”

    Do you even do a smidgeon of research before shooting your mouth off on a subject about which you apparently know little? Read this profile of Ned Lamont’s company http://www.lamontdigital.com/lamont-profile.html and you’ll learn that his is one of the companies actually competing with the cable company monoplies you decry. As for Nagin, he was a registered Republican – NOT a Democrat – while he was an executive at Cox Communications and right up until the day he first ran for office. Nagin is a jerk but the primary blame for the fiasco in the wake of Katrina rests with Bushco incompetence.

    Comment by Ian — August 26, 2006 @ 4:34 pm - August 26, 2006

  67. “That said, while I have not seen the Spike’s Katrina documentary, I understand it was fair and balanced”

    Actually, I saw it and it was. Pretty much everyone involved, Nagin, Blanco, etc. were interviewed and called on their shit. The guy who made up the rumors about the baby raping and such used the excuse that he was just very emotional at the time but two or three people called him out on that bullshit. Most of the interviews were from Katrina victims both black and white. The only thing that disturbed me about the documentary were all the shots of the dead people floating in the water throughout various points in the documentary. I guess I’m just sensitive that way.

    Comment by Turk — August 26, 2006 @ 5:14 pm - August 26, 2006

  68. #65 – It’s quite rare for me to read rajIan anymore, but OK, I happened to this time.

    On the occasions when I do, I grant a response – so as to flush the rajIan nonsense back out of my mind.

    By the way, and secondarily, my response here will also provide a crumb of “intermittent reinforcement” for rajIan. Unpredictable, intermittent reinforcement is known to be the most powerfully addictive kind; and I figure, each minute that rajIan spends coming back to this blog – seeking our collective attention (or responses) – is one minute that rajIan can’t spend chasing ambulances, stalking the other blogs, or doing whatever rajIan normally does that, I would suspect, probably harms society.

    So, here goes.

    “As for Nagin, he was a registered Republican – NOT a Democrat – while he was an executive at Cox Communications and right up until the day he first ran for office.”

    Once again, rajIan shows its shocking inability to grasp the most basic implications of its statements.

    rajIan voluntarily informs us that Nagin actually changed to the Democratic Party on his way into politics.

    In other words, the Republican Party wasn’t the proper home for Nagin, in Nagin’s own view. When push came to shove – when it came time to make his final, public choice and really settle down with the people who were philosophically, culturally, economically and instinctively aligned with Nagin – he jumped to the Democrats. He recognized / admitted the Democrats as the home for him.

    If that doesn’t prove V’s point in #61 (or mine in #63) – what ever could?

    “Nagin is a jerk but the primary blame for the fiasco in the wake of Katrina rests with Bushco incompetence.

    And that, folks, is the number one “Katrina Myth”.

    Only someone completely uninformed or willfully perverse could fail to know that Nagin and Blanco were the ones who refused to work with Bush at the critical moments, refused to listen to Bush’s please that they evacuate, refused to use the hundreds of buses, etc.

    In other words: THANK YOU rajIan, for bringing this thread back to its topic – Katrina myths. (However unintentionally.)

    Comment by Calarato — August 26, 2006 @ 5:51 pm - August 26, 2006

  69. “Only someone completely uninformed or willfully perverse could fail to know that Nagin and Blanco were the ones who refused to work with Bush at the critical moments, refused to listen to Bush’s please that they evacuate, refused to use the hundreds of buses, etc.”

    As far as not listening to Bush goes, in the Katrina documentary Nagin tried to put all the blame on Blanco for that and then they went into a discussion about how Blanco has always hated Nagin since he once supported her oponent. It all sounds pretty childish to me.

    Comment by Turk — August 26, 2006 @ 6:19 pm - August 26, 2006

  70. [Comment deleted.  This commenter has been repeatedly asked to leave and therefore has been banned.]

    Comment by Queer Patriot — August 26, 2006 @ 6:24 pm - August 26, 2006

  71. [Comment deleted.  This commenter has been repeatedly asked to leave and therefore has been banned.]

    Comment by Queer Patriot — August 26, 2006 @ 6:27 pm - August 26, 2006

  72. #67: “Once again, rajIan shows its shocking inability to grasp the most basic implications of its statements.”

    And you apparently can’t follow the thread discussion which started with Vthek’s ludicrous claim that Lamont and Nagin were part of the great Democratic Party Cable monopolies.

    As far Katrina is concerned, I hope there is non-stop coverage of the anniversary. I especially hope they replay Bush partying with McCain and strumming the guitar while folks were drowning in N.O. They might as well even show this photoshopped pic http://tinyurl.com/7d5sh since to most people today it’s actually believable: 9/11, the Iraq quagmire, Social Security phaseout, Katrina, 3 buck a gallon gas, the Lebanon fiasco, after awhile, you wonder just what these bozos will try to screw up next! People are tired of one-party rule especially when it’s so incompetent. A shift to Dem control in Congress will mean no more rubber-stamping and enabling of future Bush disasters and holding Bushco fully accountable for those of the past 6 years.

    Comment by Ian — August 26, 2006 @ 8:58 pm - August 26, 2006

  73. Several myths about Hurricane Katrina have bothered me all year.

    First, the media fable that it was a New Orleans disaster when, in fact, it was a Gulf Coast tragedy. Areas of Mississippi have suffered because of the attention and money focused on the Big Easy.

    Second, and I hate to be cruel, is the assumption American taxpayers have some obligation to rebuild a city that chose to sit below sea level. (Plus some of the levee problems stemmed from corruption in the local levee board.)

    According to the current issue of Time magazine, there’s a consensus that as much of New Orleans as possible should be rebuilt on higher ground. But Mayor Nagin and the City Council caved in to demands that the worst flooded areas be rebuilt because so many 9th Ward residents want to live in their old neighborhoods. It will cost $6 billion to restore the levees to pre-Katrina status — Category 3 hurricanes — and $30 billion to withstand a Category 5 storm.

    Sorry, but I don’t want one dollar of my taxes dumped in that pit. Especially since billions of dollars appropriated by Congress for Louisiana water projects could have been spent on flood protection but instead were diverted by the Lousiana congressional delegation and local politicians to pet projects, including accommodating riverboat casinos.

    Comment by Ashley Hunter — August 26, 2006 @ 10:40 pm - August 26, 2006

  74. #72: “Sorry, but I don’t want one dollar of my taxes dumped in that pit.”

    I could say the same about Iraq. At least NOLA is an American city. At the current cost of the Iraq quagmire ($0.2 billion per day), getting the NOLA levees to withstand a category 5 storm would only take about 5 months worth of what the Pentagon spends in Iraq. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11880954/) That would be money FAR better spent than on the Iraq fiasco.

    Comment by Ian — August 26, 2006 @ 11:20 pm - August 26, 2006

  75. the assumption American taxpayers have some obligation to rebuild a city that chose to sit below sea level.

    New Orleans didn’t choose to sit just anywhere. People did and they did it for a reason. New Orleans is a large spoke in the wheel of trade and transport in the US.

    St. Louis sits in the middle of the New Madrid fault line which has a history of devastating earthquakes. When the next quake happens and possibly destroys another major city, will you say the same? My choice would be to build better buildings or in the case of NO, levees.

    You are right to point out the corruption of the Levee Commission. That’s where I place the blame for the destruction of NO. Katrina, while still devestating, would have been just another hurricane story if the levees hadn’t failed.

    As a point of reference, I live in a city along the Mississippi River that flooded regularly. The federal government (taxpayers) many years ago helped pay for the construction of the levee that now protects my city. I am thankful for it and the wise local politicians that were future thinking.

    Comment by John in IL — August 27, 2006 @ 1:11 am - August 27, 2006

  76. #52 Ian — August 26, 2006 @ 11:17 am – August 26, 2006

    You keep meticulous track of everyone who posts here? Gee, I guess you missed us. How sweet.

    I find that interesting, too. For people who purport to ignore me, they seem to follow me around quite often. I almost feel like I’m being stalked!

    BTW, did you notice how Bruce commented the other day about the IP address showing someone posting from Canada? No doubt he has compared the location of the IP addresses for raj and me and found we’re at opposite ends of the country.

    I don’t have the slightest idea who Ian is or where Ian is. I’m currently in Munich (Germany, not North Dakota), which accounts for my on-again/off-again postings at odd hours, but it would be very easy for Mr. Bruce to compare Ian’s and my IP addresses and determine whether they come from the same ISP. Since my ISP is a relatively small regional New England ISP, it’s doubtful that they would be the same.

    It really is interesting to note that Mr. Bruce hasn’t opined as to whether our postings come from the same ISP domain. On the other hand, given the primary audience to which this web site wishes to market itself to–the MightyRighties of the 101st Keyboard Brigade–it really isn’t that surprising.

    On another note, I find it interesting that none of the MightyRighties has deigned to assail my assessment in #46 about the true cause of the problemmo in NOLA. Apparently, my suspicion that MightyRighties are ascientific is correct. It will be fun to see the comments if someone posts something about “Intelligent Design” around here. I guess I missed the post here in which Judge Jones was lambasted for his decision in the Dover PA public school decision.

    Comment by raj — August 27, 2006 @ 1:20 am - August 27, 2006

  77. #53 Calarato — August 26, 2006 @ 11:42 am – August 26, 2006

    Christopher Hitchens, a relatively sane and principled leftist…

    This is funny as heck. Is Hitchens relatively sane and principled when he is imbibing? Or, in his off-moments when he isn’t?

    The “debate” between Hitchens and George Galloway was at ist most hilarious when Galloway referred to Hitchens as a “known imbiber.” I almost rolled on the floor laughing. But it’s true.

    Comment by raj — August 27, 2006 @ 1:21 am - August 27, 2006

  78. #61 V the K — August 26, 2006 @ 3:20 pm – August 26, 2006

    Let’s discuss the cable industry, shall we? Since it seems to be a resume-builder for so many Democrat ‘businessman.’

    Ok, let’s.

    Most cable operators enjoy de facto and de jure monopolies in the areas they “serve.”

    True

    They are heavily regulated by the government…

    Untrue. Remember the telecommunications act of 1996, passed overwhelmingly by the Republican-dominated House and Senate, and signed by Clinton? That pretty much signed the death-knell for government regulation of any telecommunications, including cable.

    BTW, just how much did the family that controls Comcast, one of the largest cable providers, give to the Republican party, in contrast to the Democrats. And I won’t even mention the family that controls (controlled?) Adelphi, a major competitor, some of whom were convicted of fraud.

    Comment by raj — August 27, 2006 @ 1:21 am - August 27, 2006

  79. #72 Ashley Hunter — August 26, 2006 @ 10:40 pm – August 26, 2006

    First, the media fable that it was a New Orleans disaster when, in fact, it was a Gulf Coast tragedy. Areas of Mississippi have suffered because of the attention and money focused on the Big Easy.

    True, but that’s always the case. The problem that you have is that American media are concentrated in large-ish cities, and they will always give primary attention to their immediate locales. And, because they do, the national attention will also be paid to the immediate locales of the large-ish cities in which they operate.

    To give an example, in another context, the American media pay attention to murders, etc, in cities such as NYC, Chicago, LA, and Miami, and rarely pay attention to murders in, for example, Podunk, Utah.

    I don’t know what to do about that–do you?

    Let’s understand something. American media exists to sell advertising. What’s cheap and will sell eyeballs to the advertisers is what American media goes for. That’s true of print media, broadcast media, and even Internet media.

    Second, and I hate to be cruel, is the assumption American taxpayers have some obligation to rebuild a city that chose to sit below sea level.

    If you in fact read what I commented above (#46) it is not entirely clear that the city “chose to sit below sea level.” It may be that the city subsided below sea level as a result of the US Army Corps of non-Engineers’ policy to channelize the MissRiv upstream of NOLA, causing the land to subside. So, if that’s the case, why should the FedGov–which runs the Army Corps of non-Engineers–not be obligated to fund a rehabilitation project in NOLA?

    Just a question.

    Comment by raj — August 27, 2006 @ 1:22 am - August 27, 2006

  80. Hate to say it, but Nagin is right about the disgrace that is Ground Zero. Of course, it’s the insurance companies that are holding it up. Probably much the same thing is happening in New Orleans. There should be buildings at Ground Zero by now, and the streets should be cleared in New Orleand.

    Comment by Kamasutra Jones — August 27, 2006 @ 1:38 am - August 27, 2006

  81. #75 “It really is interesting to note that Mr. Bruce hasn’t opined as to whether our postings come from the same ISP domain. ”

    The problem for Bruce is that, at this point, it’s a no-win for him if he comments. There is no doubt in my mind that he has checked it out and knows our IP addresses – his comment on the Canadian the other day proves he knows how to do it. However, if he tells the truth, it will make his friends, the sockpuppet conspiracists, look quite foolish. I doubt he’d lie but if he did, then he knows that you and I and others who have been apprised of the situation will know he’s lying and he can’t risk that threat to his blog’s credibility. So he’s doing what I would probably do in his position: just stay silent on the issue. That’s fine with me; it means the sockpuppet conspiracists will continue to read our posts. They just can’t help themselves.

    Comment by Ian — August 27, 2006 @ 2:17 am - August 27, 2006

  82. Raj/Ian -

    I have much more in my life to worry about that coming to either of your defenses when you continually demean me, Dan and other commenters on this blog.

    Fight your own battles.

    Comment by Bruce (GayPatriot) — August 27, 2006 @ 12:15 pm - August 27, 2006

  83. #81: Whether or not Ian and Raj are the same person (and you got to admit, when raj blockquoted ian and claimed the words as his own, it makes a pretty good case, and spoofing IP addresses is too easy to be probative, and they do tend to disappear and reappear at the same time), at the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter. rajian and ianraj are Tweedledee and Tweedledum. Same left-wing talking points, same dishonest weaselly spin, same puerile insults and name-calling. If they are two people and not one idiot and one sockpuppet, does it even matter?

    Unless I’m bored and feel like playing Whack-a-Troll, I generally scroll by their posts and read what sane, sensible, grown-up people have to say instead.

    Comment by V the K — August 27, 2006 @ 12:41 pm - August 27, 2006

  84. V, exactly.

    “raj” and “Ian” are so alike – so dishonest and dull, repetitively spewing the same disproven and hate-filled shibboleths in response to the same Pavlovian cues – that I don’t know or care if they’ve been proven out as one person or two. I treat them as a collective entity, rajIan.

    And yes, most of the time, that means simply skipping it. (the rajIan entity)

    Comment by Calarato — August 27, 2006 @ 1:09 pm - August 27, 2006

  85. #82: “Same left-wing talking points, same dishonest weaselly spin, same puerile insults and name-calling.”

    In the same comment, he refers to raj and/or me: “Tweedledee”, “Tweedledum”, “idiot”, and “sockpuppet.”

    Speaking of “dishonest weaselly spin”, have you retracted your false accusation about Ned Lamont’s cable business?

    Comment by Ian — August 27, 2006 @ 1:49 pm - August 27, 2006

  86. #82 – P.S. – another thing regarding IP address, V:

    If I wanted to, I could make not only 2 different IP addresses, but 2 completely different Internet domains / providers / geographies, appear from this one computer. It would take about 5 minutes to set up for initial use. And rajIan is known to play IP address games, shall we say. (I don’t care to specify more.)

    So when rajIan goes on and on about that, it’s cynically dragging a herring that it knows to be scarlet red. And that, somehow, we wouldn’t equally know as red.

    Again, the sheer banality of rajIan’s workings – like a child clinging to pathetically unsuccessful tricks – can be shocking.

    Comment by Calarato — August 27, 2006 @ 3:48 pm - August 27, 2006

  87. Bruce, VdaK, Calarato… it matters not whether the raj/Ian/blah sockpuppet artistry flourishes or fails here. What is telling is that they feel the need to serve some base interest here by ankle biting.

    And honestly, like VdaK points out… at the end of the day does it matter? Do their opinions sway a single debate or discussion?

    Their game is to squeal until, like a 10 month old child, someone takes note of them. It’s all about them; 24×7.

    Comment by Michigan-Matt — August 27, 2006 @ 4:01 pm - August 27, 2006

  88. And just to prove the point: here’s raj/Ian/blah offering:

    “On another note, I find it interesting that none of the MightyRighties has deigned to assail my assessment in #46 about the true cause of the problemmo in NOLA.”

    Bzzzzzt. Wrong again. No one cared, sockpuppet. No one.

    Comment by Michigan-Matt — August 27, 2006 @ 4:05 pm - August 27, 2006

  89. Cal and Matt, just sayin’ there are one or two lefties who contribute to this forum who are capable of being civil and coherent. They should be encouraged. I think that would be a better use of our time than refuting once again some shopworn DNC talking point or the latest schoolyard nickname used on DailyKos to refer to President Bush.

    And is it too much to ask that when someone posts a link that they claim supports their argument… that it actually has something to do with their argument?

    Comment by V the K — August 27, 2006 @ 4:11 pm - August 27, 2006

  90. #87 – LOL

    As you might guess, I hadn’t even read #46. But you know what, Matt? It reminds of a time Gryph tried to pull the same thing. I know it’s hard to believe someone could be so lame, but at the time, Gryph seriously believed that if no one bothered responding to him, it was because they couldn’t!! He made a big thing of it, whereupon I used gentle and appropriate sarcasm I to teach him otherwise. ;-)

    Comment by Calarato — August 27, 2006 @ 4:15 pm - August 27, 2006

  91. #86: “Do their opinions sway a single debate or discussion?”

    I’m not under any illusion that my opinion will change a mind like yours or those of many of those who comment here. I make my points for those who lurk and I back up my opinion with facts that lurkers can check for themselves. You call it “ankle biting” so I guess the truth hurts. But you ought to be thankful that someone calls out false claims like the one made yesterday about Ned Lamont’s business. Next time vthek or one of the rest of you may actually do some research and avoid putting a foot in your mouth with a demonstrably false assertion.

    With regard to Bruce’s claim in #81, I have never intentionally demeaned him or Dan and if I have inadvertently done so, I apologize. I actually appreciate that they have created this forum and permit a spectrum of ideas to be voiced.

    Comment by Ian — August 27, 2006 @ 4:23 pm - August 27, 2006

  92. #53 P.S. – the Christopher Hitchens thing:

    Malcontent has a better, funner round-up and a longer video clip, here: http://www.malcontent.biz/blog/?p=1922

    Comment by Calarato — August 27, 2006 @ 4:30 pm - August 27, 2006

  93. rajIan, again: No one here is more intellectually dishonest than you. And you’ve given us another prime example in #90.

    To make your great show of supposedly being against “demonstrably false assertions”, you furnish demonstrably false assertions. And in making your great show of supposedly being someone who doesn’t demean others, you quite freely… well… demean others.

    For any lurkers out there: That’s game, set, match.

    Bye now, rajIan.

    Comment by Calarato — August 27, 2006 @ 4:49 pm - August 27, 2006

  94. My final off-topic point of information for this thread – I have to get out of here anyway:

    Check out the ruins of Fitzmas, folks.

    It turns out that Richard Armitage, a State department functionary, was indeed “the Plame leaker”.

    It also turns out that Fitzgerald knew this from practically the beginning of his investigation. Meaning: his investigation was a contemptible witchhunt from the start.

    Chalk up another one to the dextrosphere, folks. All its basic points about the Plame affair have been vindicated. While the sinistrosphere’s points were and are wrong.

    Comment by Calarato — August 27, 2006 @ 5:25 pm - August 27, 2006

  95. To Raj, commenting in 78 (and to others) — I erred in my original comment. I said but didn’t mean “chose to live” below sea level. I was talking about the opportunity to rebuild New Orleans on higher ground, which is being recommended by most entities studying (and trying to plan) the “new” New Orleans. Under pressure from citizens who insist on returing to their old flood-prone neighborhoods, the city government is “choosing to live below sea level”. That’s what I meant and failed to make clear (because I was in a hurry).

    To John in Ill in comment 74 — I don’t think the federal government should have an obligation to rebuild St. Louis should a major earthquake occur. I live near an earthquake fault (not too far from St. Louis) and I have earthquake insurance on my property. There’s a risk and I’ve taken a necessary step that should be obvious in a high risk area. If my neighbor decides not to insure his property and it’s destroyed in an earthquake it’s too bad but I don’t think any taxpayers have an obligation to help him.

    I accept a federal responsibility to assist state and local governments rebuild highways and bridges that are links in the national transportation grid. I accept some federal responsibility to help state and local governments rebuild schools, libraries and other public facilities, preferably a mix of grants and low-interest loans, but only to the extent that the cost of reconstruction exceeds a city or county’s ability to issue bonds. But I reject any federal responsibility to fund rebuilding private property.

    I hate to sound cruel and heartless, but there are risks in life. People who live in areas likely to be hit by hurricanes better carry insurance. People who live in flood-prone lowlands better carry insurance. People who live in earthquake-prone areas better carry insurance. If they can’t afford the insurance they have no business living in a risk area and ought to move or be prepared to be “sh.. out of luck”. People who can, in reality, afford the insurance, but ignore it because they know Uncle Sam will bail them out should be forced to also be “sh.. out of luck”.

    Comment by Ashley Hunter — August 27, 2006 @ 5:53 pm - August 27, 2006

  96. First, I am from New Orleans, and no one has ever said the federal government blew up the levees. The myth is that the state/city blew up the levees. But, this is a myth based in fact. The State of Louisiana did in fact blow up the levees in the lower Mississippi River area of Louisiana during the 1927 flood. So, it’s not that unusual that this same “myth” played again after Hurricane Betsy in 1965 and again in Katrina.

    Second, New Orleans did not “choose” to be below sea level. The City of New Orleans began in the 17th century as a settlement along the Mississippi River, the highest (above-sea level) ground. The City had to be here, because the Mississippi River is here. It cannot be anywhere else. And, as with most cities, as more people moved in for commerce, the residential areas spread north, south, east and west — yes, towards lower ground. That is why the the city, state and federal governments have built levees and floodwalls all around us — to keep us from flooding.

    Finally, Hurricane Katrina did not destroy the City of New Orleans. Katrina blew a lot of wind, that blew down a lot of trees, and tore off some roofs. The devastating damage came from of flooding — after Katrina had already past — when floodwalls (and some levees) built by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, failed because THEY WERE ENGINEERED BADLY! If the Army Corps of Engineers had done its job, the vast majority of the City WOULD HAVE SURVIVED HURRICANE KATRINA QUITE WELL, THANK YOU!

    And, what do I get for losing my home; everything in it; and being displaced now for a year — only my insurance proceeds, for WHICH I PAID PREMIUMS, but do not come anywhere near to making me whole — BECAUSE WHO WOULD HAVE EXPECTED TO HAVE 5.5′ OF SALT WATER IN THEIR HOUSE FOR THREE WEEKS, especially where that house is already BUILT THREE FEET OFF THE GROUND.

    Oh, I forgot, I also got $4,238 from FEMA.

    Comment by Gwendolyn — August 27, 2006 @ 11:41 pm - August 27, 2006

  97. The ring of truth.

    Thanks for that, and sorry for your loss!

    Comment by Calarato — August 27, 2006 @ 11:44 pm - August 27, 2006

  98. To Ashley in #95

    Well said and I agree. My post referred to the responsibility of the federal government to support the rebuilding of the infrastructure of the city (levees being a necessary part of any flood prone city), not individuals who, for whatever reason, chose not insure against catastrophe.

    Comment by John in IL — August 28, 2006 @ 1:57 am - August 28, 2006

  99. Yes, please respond to why your link that states most victims were white contradicts you.

    Comment by Michael — August 28, 2006 @ 5:27 am - August 28, 2006

  100. Katrina and NO is a lot like trailer parks in Oklahoma during twister season. When the guy loses his trailer, his truck, his 8-track tape collection and his prized coon dog up the whirling vortex of a tornado, the WeatherChannel film crew is there after the fact and the story usually begins with “…I never in my whole life thought something like this could happen. I was filming the twsiter bearing down on me and my wife hollered, ‘Bubba, you better get in the bath tub right now and put some pillows over your head!’”

    No amount of federal money will ever be sufficient to compensate bad decisions made by citizens –and yet we keep doing it. Maybe that’s compassionate. I think it’s just bad public policy.

    Comment by Michigan-Matt — August 28, 2006 @ 8:59 am - August 28, 2006

  101. To Michigan-Matt.

    What if you lived in a trailer in Oklahoma, and had spent thousands of dollars extra on the manufacturer’s “tornado-proof” package, which included special tie-downs, special roofing supports, and all kinds of other upgrades that are intended to protect your trailer from the winds of a tornado. A tornado comes, and none of these features did what they were supposed to do, because the manufacturer either designed them wrong or installed them wrong. Wouldn’t you hold the manufacturer responsible for your loss? Because of the manufacturer’s errors, your trailer did not perform like it was supposed to perform.
    The same is true for the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. The people of the City of New Orleans are not asking to be compensated for something Hurricane Katrina did, but something the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers did — mis-design and mis-construct the very structures that were supposed to protect us from flooding. Floodwalls and levees are not supposed to fail! If they are, there would be no reason to construct them.

    Comment by Gwendolyn — August 28, 2006 @ 11:50 am - August 28, 2006

  102. Considering that Louisiana and New Orleans politicians diverted levee funding away from shoring up the levees and into, among other things, building boarding ramps for riverboat casinos, don’t they bear some respobsibility for electing and re-electing these sewer trout to public office?

    Comment by V the K — August 28, 2006 @ 12:02 pm - August 28, 2006

  103. VtheK:
    June 1, 2006, the US ACE finally unequivocally admitted responsibility for the tragedy in New Orleans with the release of the completed report. The Final Draft of the IPET report states that the destructive forces of Katrina were not contained by “was aided by incomplete protection, lower than authorized structures, and levee sections with erodible materials

    Comment by keogh — August 28, 2006 @ 4:09 pm - August 28, 2006

  104. To VtheK
    Louisiana and the City of New Orleans did not divert money from the levees. In fact, neither the State of Louisiana nor the City of New Orleans has any control over levees. Each parish has a Levee Board which is statutorily granted authority over levees.

    Further, when Congress voted in 1965 to provide hurricane protection for the New Orleans area after Hurricane Betsy, each of the parish levee districts entered into participation agreements with the U.S., via the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. Under those agreements, the levee districts must contribute a certain percentage towards the project cost. In the case of the Orleans Levee District, it is 10%. The Corps of Engineers determines what projects will be done, designs the project, prices the project, and awards the contracts for the project. All Orleans Levee District does is contribute its 10% and provides the Corps of Engineers with right-of-entry permits so it can do the work.

    The Orleans Levee District has never refused to contribute its share, and it has never had insufficient funds to contribute. In fact, the Orleans Levee District has always had sufficient funds, even without regard to generated tax revenues, exactly because it owns the lakefront land, and derives revenues from its commercial activities there. If the Orleans Levee District did not have those commercial activities, the tax burden on the property owners in the City of New Orleans would have been much higher.

    Please research your facts.

    Comment by Gwendolyn — August 28, 2006 @ 6:49 pm - August 28, 2006

  105. #104: “Please research your facts.”

    I suspect you can count on that happening around the time pigs sprout wings and fly. I was going to respond to the original claim but you did it succinctly and well. Thanks.

    Comment by Ian — August 28, 2006 @ 11:22 pm - August 28, 2006

  106. To Gwendolyn, commenting in 104: I can’t speak for V the K, but I’m not alleging that state and local officials diverted to casinos and other water projects money specifically appropriated for levee work. I’m saying that the diversion occurred before the money was appopriated.

    There’s only so much money in the federal till and what’s available to any one state — or city — is limited. Some priorities have to be established for how said funds are spent. Instead of making levee improvements and wetlands preservation the highest priorities, Louisiana’s delegation in Washington went along with state and local demands for federal money for pet projects like accommodating casinos, etc.

    In my opinion, all those politicians deserve more blame than the Army Corps of Engineers for a levee system unable to handle the effects of a major hurricane.

    And I’ll repeat how I feel: Until that wacko Nagin and the citizens of New Orleans agree to a smaller footprint for the city, with most of the rebuilding on higher ground, I don’t want any of my tax money poured into levee projects, etc. I think it’s absurd to spend the money that’s necessary to build a levee system capable of protecting a city below sea level from a Category 5 hurricane.

    Comment by Ashley Hunter — August 28, 2006 @ 11:24 pm - August 28, 2006

  107. #105 Ian — August 28, 2006 @ 11:22 pm – August 28, 2006

    I suspect you can count on that happening around the time pigs sprout wings and fly.

    As was pointed out to me a few day ago–on German TV–even if pigs did sprout wings, it is not assured that they would be able to fly.

    Ostriches have wings. They can’t fly. But they can stick their heads in the sand.

    The latter somehow reminds me of the Mighty Righties of the 101st KeyboardBrigade here.

    Comment by raj — August 29, 2006 @ 1:24 am - August 29, 2006

  108. Almost missed this missive…

    #82 Bruce (GayPatriot) — August 27, 2006 @ 12:15 pm – August 27, 2006

    I have much more in my life to worry about that coming to either of your defenses when you continually demean me, Dan and other commenters on this blog.

    I take this as either (i) an acknowledgement that he knows that Ian and I are not from the same Internet domain, and does not want to disappoint the MightyRighties of the 101st KeyboardBrigade that he wants to market the site to, or (ii) he is inCurious, like his pResident inCurious George.

    Whatever.

    Fight your own battles.

    You pay for the storage. Not I.

    It will be interesting when you start requiring people to register in order to comment.

    Comment by raj — August 29, 2006 @ 3:20 am - August 29, 2006

  109. Oh, one more point. Here in Germany the FAZ am Sonntag (Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung newspaper last Sunday) had a little article on Katrina, the predominantly black Lower 9th Ward and the predominantly white Lakeview area. FAZ is a moderately conservative newspaper, but even in that article they noted that the Lakeview area had been treated by governments at all levels better than the Lower 9th Ward had been.

    Take it for what it’s worth. If you really do want to spin it Republicrats/Demoblicans, do what you wish. As far as I’m concerned, they’re both corrupt, and that’s one reason why I haven’t voted for either of them since I became a sentient being.

    Comment by raj — August 29, 2006 @ 7:17 am - August 29, 2006

  110. For the record –and Bruce is a big boy who can take care of himself nicely when alley cats gather to snarl (raj? Ian? the blah?)– I know that raj/Ian/blah sockpuppets have repeatedly used ISP cloaking mechanisms to circumvent blocking decisions made by the hosts of other blogs.

    You just have to wonder what drives these types? Is it as simple as some here have noted… petulant little brats who demand attention and whine when they don’t get it? It certainly isn’t honest debate.

    I give Bruce a lot of credit… he has the patience of a saint. I would have been deleting their useless commentary… which would have left little else in way of a footprint until they changed their conduct.

    Comment by Michigan-Matt — August 29, 2006 @ 8:21 am - August 29, 2006

  111. #110: Plain and simple: you’re wrong. I have NEVER used an ISP cloaking mechanism or other such subterfuge on ANY blog whatsoever. Either prove that I have done so or please retract your false claim.

    Comment by Ian — August 29, 2006 @ 11:02 am - August 29, 2006

  112. LOL….according to RajIan’s rules, IanRaj, YOU are the one who must prove that you have never used an ISP cloaking mechanism or other subterfuge. Or you can say that RajIan is wrong and that the accuser must provide proof instead, thus demonstrating that RajIan is incompetent.

    Furthermore, if one looks at the posting patterns on this site, it is obvious that IanRaj posts only at similar times to RajIan. Indeed, last week, when RajIan announced that it was going to Munich, I watched and tracked; IanRaj magically ceased posting right about the same time that RajIan said it was going, and restarted right about the same time that RajIan reappeared with access.

    Add that to the clear example I provided previously of RajIan claiming IanRaj’s statement as its own, and there you have it.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — August 29, 2006 @ 12:44 pm - August 29, 2006

  113. #110 Michigan-Matt — August 29, 2006 @ 8:21 am – August 29, 2006

    For the record –and Bruce is a big boy

    Oh, so now you are going to vouch for his Body Mass Index (BMI)?

    At some point, the MightyRighties become MightyRidiculous.

    Matty, you’re the one who is not worth debating.

    Comment by raj — August 29, 2006 @ 12:57 pm - August 29, 2006

  114. Thanks for the insight, NDXXX. I guess I hadn’t been paying close enough attention to the little antic-laden sockpuppet.

    The real tragedy is that they (it?) have driven sincere commentators away from the site and other sites… people who have good insights and don’t tolerate petulant children demanding immediate attention.

    I’ve never heard of a cast of characters resist atonement to these ends… except at Nuremberg. And at the Hague. And with Saddam and his stacked deck of losers. Come to think of it, there’s a metaphor for the sockpuppets in there somewhere…

    Oh well, it’s another comment that takes us off-topic again. I apologize to the hosts.

    Comment by Michigan-Matt — August 29, 2006 @ 2:40 pm - August 29, 2006

  115. Oh, so now you are going to vouch for his Body Mass Index (BMI)?

    Poor coward RajIan, trying to spin and deflect the fact that, in his addled mind, he was stupid enough to think that we weren’t NOTICING that his posts and IanRaj’s invariably come at similar times.

    And as for that BMI stuff again, like I’ve goaded him before, mine is over 29, but he refuses to comment on it.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — August 29, 2006 @ 4:01 pm - August 29, 2006

  116. I can’t believe rajIan put y’all back on that BMI thing.

    Add rajIan to a thread – and it really, really degenerates.

    Comment by Calarato — August 29, 2006 @ 4:53 pm - August 29, 2006

  117. #116 Calarato — August 29, 2006 @ 4:53 pm – August 29, 2006

    I can’t believe rajIan put y’all back on that BMI thing.

    Just to remind you, I (raj) was not the one who claimed that Bruce was a big boy.

    Comment by raj — August 29, 2006 @ 11:59 pm - August 29, 2006

  118. Add rajIan to a thread – and it really, really degenerates.

    Only if people acknowledge him/them/it.

    I checked GP using my Blackberry yesterday, which means I used a totally different IP than usual. Does this mean I was not myself?

    Comment by V the K — August 30, 2006 @ 5:25 am - August 30, 2006

  119. VdaK isn’t that a lot different than using cloaking software in order to evade blocking efforts by a webhost and avoid detection? That’s the stuff that raj/Ian/blah the sockpuppets have done at other blog sites.

    I probably have three IP addresses depending on what I use to submit comments here.

    Comment by Michigan-Matt — August 30, 2006 @ 2:15 pm - August 30, 2006

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