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Kerry Gaffe — “Wellstone Funeral Moment” of ‘06?

Posted by GayPatriotWest at 8:12 pm - October 31, 2006.
Filed under: 2006 Elections,Liberals,Media Bias

This is just a thought which I may flesh out later. Some claim that the overly partisan rhetoric that Democrats used at Paul Wellstone’s funeral just days before the 2002 mid-term elections helped give the GOP the momentum they needed to pick up seats in a year which favored the opposition. It motivated Republicans to turn out while turning Independents away from the Democrats.

I’m now wondering if the comments the Democrats’ most recent presidential nominee made in Pasadena yesterday may serve a similiar function. That remark compounded with his reaction — instead of apologizing, lashing out at Republicans and conservatives in general and the president in particular.

Just a thought.

UPDATE: Even our frequent (and usually most civil) critic, Patrick (Gryph) agrees that Kerry’s comment was “vile.”

UP-UPDATE:  Please note that I changed the title of this post to reflect more accurately the moment I was referencing.

**GP VACATION UPDATE**: PatriotPartner (John) and I are enjoying ourselves in Phoenix. Our vacation got even more enjoyable when we heard of the ability of John Kerry’s to “SwiftBoat” himself this week. As John said today, Kerry may go down in history as the Democrat politican who brings his party defeat in two successive election cycles — and this time his name isn’t even on the ballot.

Meantime, I think it is worth reminding Senator (and I use that term loosely) Kerry that this isn’t his Vietnam-era Armed Forces. (h/t – Instapundit)

Our review of Pen­tagon enlistee data shows that the only group that is lowering its participation in the military is the poor. The percentage of recruits from the poorest American neighborhoods (with one-fifth of the U.S. population) declined from 18 percent in 1999 to 14.6 percent in 2003, 14.1 percent in 2004, and 13.7 percent in 2005. . . .

In summary, the additional years of recruit data (2004–2005) sup­port the previous finding that U.S. military recruits are more similar than dissimilar to the American youth population. The slight dif­ferences are that wartime U.S. mil­itary enlistees are better educated, wealthier, and more rural on aver­age than their civilian peers.

Recruits have a higher percent­age of high school graduates and representation from Southern and rural areas. No evidence indicates exploitation of racial minorities (either by race or by race-weighted ZIP code areas). Finally, the distri­bution of household income of recruits is noticeably higher than that of the entire youth population.

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164 Comments

  1. Some particulars:

    Kerry’s remark, in case anyone doesn’t know: “You know education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well, and if you don’t you get stuck in Iraq”

    Senator McCain’s response: “…[it is] an insult to every soldier serving in combat, and should deeply offend any American with an ounce of appreciation for what they suffer and risk so that the rest of us can sleep more comfortably at night.”

    Kerry’s counter-response: “If anyone thinks a veteran would criticize the more than 140,000 heroes serving in Iraq and not the president who got us stuck there, they’re crazy. This is the classic G.O.P. playbook. I’m sick and tired of these despicable Republican attacks that always seem to come from those who never can be found to serve in war, but love to attack those who did.”

    — my comment ——————————–

    WHO is going to be dumb enough to believe Kerry’s response? Notice that, even if we accept it as true (which is ridiculous), it still doesn’t get Kerry off the hook, because Kerry is still insulting the mission being conducted by the 140,000 heroes.

    So, instead of saying our soldiers are lazy and stupid directly, Kerry is now saying (or trying to make us believe he said) they’re a bunch of suckers for being in Iraq. What a winner. No wonder Kerry “won” Ohio, and the Presidency, in 2004.

    Comment by Calarato — October 31, 2006 @ 8:20 pm - October 31, 2006

  2. this was apparently some joke he tells where the punchline is Bush, but it came out wrong. it’s something like you can either study hard and make something of yourself or you can get your country in a quagmire (like Bush) this will be over by breakfast, just like harry reid.

    also http://www.iavaaction.org/ see how your state reps did in funding for iraq and afghanistan vets. kerry got a B+

    Comment by lester — October 31, 2006 @ 8:23 pm - October 31, 2006

  3. So far, no one has addressed the question posed in the title of this post.

    Comment by GayPatriotWest — October 31, 2006 @ 8:33 pm - October 31, 2006

  4. this was apparently some joke he tells where the punchline is Bush

    An explanation so lame only a completely brainless idiot would buy it.

    Comment by V the K — October 31, 2006 @ 8:36 pm - October 31, 2006

  5. #1 P.S. And note how, like the Lefties we see on GP, Kerry desperately tries to ‘change the subject’ or distract the audience by launching a personal attack on somebody.

    In this case, Kerry attacks as “crazy” every American citizen and listener who heard and understood Kerry’s remark as a slur on our soldiers (direct or indirect).

    Sidebar – Dan, no offense but purely as a point of information: if you believe Gryph is “usually civil”, just be aware that he seems to treat your threads differently from, say, Nick’s or Bruce’s threads, where he seems to feel free to initiate name-calling.

    Comment by Calarato — October 31, 2006 @ 8:37 pm - October 31, 2006

  6. #3 – Sure thing, Dan. Here goes.

    I hope it’s the Wellstone moment. I can’t say if it is. We’ll know in a week.

    Comment by Calarato — October 31, 2006 @ 8:39 pm - October 31, 2006

  7. Well said, Calarato. We’ll know in a week.

    Comment by GayPatriotWest — October 31, 2006 @ 8:39 pm - October 31, 2006

  8. #3: I think the entire Democrat campaign to this date has been a replay of the Wellstone Memorial. The main effect of the Kerry gaffe will be to light a fire under the some elements of the Conservative base. It might make a difference in some races, especially in the south where there are some seats in Georgia and North Carolina that were looking iffy for the GOP.

    Comment by V the K — October 31, 2006 @ 8:42 pm - October 31, 2006

  9. It will have, perhaps, minimal effects of the Wellstone moment, but I don’t believe it will strike the collective voter’s consciousness as harshly as the wellstone situation did.

    I’m from MN, and was living there at the time. There was such a huge amount of disgust that the medium, the time, and the message were so horribly combined that the election was lost for mondale.

    Kerry saying something like this, regardless of how you interpret it, and similar ideas behind it, while insulting, is not as much a transgression of a taboo that the Wellstone situation was. And not to be too sensitive, but “Wellstone Moment”, for a minnesotan, regardless of political affiliation, is kind of abrasive.

    Comment by Froyd — October 31, 2006 @ 8:46 pm - October 31, 2006

  10. #2 – The explanation lester offers is straight out of Kerry talking points, natch. But even al-Reuters can’t hide the lameness of Kerry’s explanation:

    …Kerry told a college crowd on Monday: “You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”

    Kerry’s office released his prepared remarks, which said, “Do you know where you end up if you don’t study, if you aren’t smart, if you’re intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq. Just ask President Bush.”

    Boy, that was one huge card-reading error! I bet they had to “prepare” those alternate-universe remarks fast, LOL.

    #8 – How much play is Kerry’s remark getting, and what is the tone of the coverage? I didn’t listen to Hugh Hewitt today or anyone else’s show. al-Reuters can’t hide the vileness of Kerry’s remark (and lame explanations), but note they frame it as “Kerry Draws Republican Fire”, rather than something more accurate like “Kerry Insults American Soldiery, Declines to Apologize”.

    Comment by Calarato — October 31, 2006 @ 9:04 pm - October 31, 2006

  11. It’s a Wellstone Memorial moment if it energizes and motivates the republican base. And man oh man I think it will. As ex Army, this is just another reminder that once in a while, every blue moon, you get a true glimpse into the Democrat liberalism at it’s core.This is one of those times. Liberalism that is truely anti military and anti troops. Kerry said what many leftists believe. Simple. As to Kerry individually, you can couple this with about 5 other horrible gaffs of truth in the past 2 years, which validate the “swift boat vets” information about the man. The Republicans, in every close race should now ask their opponents whether they agree or disagree with the Democrats 2004 nominee. Simple. This could lead the next days in every close race.

    Comment by Gene in Pennsylvania — October 31, 2006 @ 9:06 pm - October 31, 2006

  12. #10 You’re right, the MSM is portraying this as politics. Note Yahoo…”White House and Kerry trade accusations.” Instead of “Kerry calls troops stupid, uneducated, boobs.” Thank God, we have blogs and Right thinking media to beat this one home.

    Comment by Gene in Pennsylvania — October 31, 2006 @ 9:11 pm - October 31, 2006

  13. You can tell the Dem media is panicked. Chris Matthews looks like someone shot his dog again. He’s trying his best to imply the Republicans are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Funny.

    Comment by Gene in Pennsylvania — October 31, 2006 @ 9:14 pm - October 31, 2006

  14. I think what we all really want to know is, how long has John Kerry been working for Karl Rove?

    Comment by V the K — October 31, 2006 @ 9:21 pm - October 31, 2006

  15. I was a big fan of Paul Wellstone, more for his character and charm then for his politics. Having said that, I find it abhorant that his name has become attached to a term that defines a politically shallow maneuver. So, out of respect for the man, let us rename it to a “Kerry Moment.” Seriously, when I first read the transcript my initial reaction was one of confusion. Not because what he said appeared horrible but because it made no sense. After I thought about it for a few moments it dawned on me that he was making a fractured reference to Bush’s scholastic record…in complete disregard for his own dismal marks! Not only was he making a stupid analogy, he was saying it in a cataclysmically retarded way. And now he refuses to apologize for his own mistake? This is proof that Kerry is of an abominable character…a simple apology and this would be over in two news cycles but no, he has to be a self-righteous ass. Oh, and VtheK, try not to be such an abrasive little tw*t from time to time, you’ll get your (inchoate) opinions across better that way.

    Comment by RealColoradoConservative — October 31, 2006 @ 9:28 pm - October 31, 2006

  16. What exactly is it you think happened that created the so-called “Wellstone Moment” that can’t be attributed to rabid right-wing mischaracterization, just like they continue to do to this day?

    Seriously, this is beyond the pale.

    Comment by God of Biscuits — October 31, 2006 @ 9:49 pm - October 31, 2006

  17. That is, the “ORIGINAL” Wellstone moment, not this ridiculous attempt to save your asses.

    Comment by God of Biscuits — October 31, 2006 @ 9:50 pm - October 31, 2006

  18. Testy. The Wellstone Memorial where most all of the Democrat leadership at a mans funeral, spent most of their time bashing Republicans. Instead of honoring a man’s life and his family. Hour after hour went by, with liberals shouting every left wing nutt slogan you can think of. They even asked people to contribute money to the party.Republicans and Independents were so insulted it energized anti Democrat turnout! They never learn.

    Comment by Gene in Pennsylvania — October 31, 2006 @ 10:19 pm - October 31, 2006

  19. Abrasive, moi?

    Comment by V the K — October 31, 2006 @ 10:20 pm - October 31, 2006

  20. The thing about the Kerry gaffe is it reminds voters that even if they vote for a faux-moderate like Harold Ford, the real power in a Democrat Senate is going to be in the hands of hard-leftists like John Kerry and Hillary Clinton.

    Little mentioned in this election is that the Democrats will be adding an avowed socialist, Bernie Sanders, to their caucus in the next Congress. (Of course, the only difference between him and the others is that he admits to being a socialist.)

    Comment by V the K — October 31, 2006 @ 10:45 pm - October 31, 2006

  21. #18: “The Wellstone Memorial where most all of the Democrat leadership at a mans funeral, spent most of their time bashing Republicans.”

    Really? Were you there? I thought not. Just more wingnut BS although I have to admit, with the MSM on your side, you made the most of that molehill. The people that were there (Al Franken for example) completely contradict your inane claim (see the chapter in his book that was devoted to the Wellstone funeral and how the right wing lied about what happened). In that respect, this Kerry kerfuffle is similar in that the desperate radical right political thugs have glommed onto it and will do their best to shift the electorate focus away from their disastrous incompetence in wartime. This time I doubt it will fly.

    Comment by Ian — October 31, 2006 @ 10:51 pm - October 31, 2006

  22. Speaking of thugs, the big news in Virginia is how George Allen’s thugs assaulted a voter. Considering how Allen’s sister described how he beat his siblings, I guess he taught his campaign muscle well. Thugs. Cowardly thugs.

    Comment by Ian — October 31, 2006 @ 10:58 pm - October 31, 2006

  23. Funny I thought the loudmouthed leftist blogger shouting at his campaign event was the thug. Odd the values exhibited by the left.

    Comment by Gene in Pennsylvania — October 31, 2006 @ 11:01 pm - October 31, 2006

  24. Seems mostly Republicans are coming to the defense of our troops. If you havn’t already go to
    http://corner.nationalreview.com/
    scroll down to see Kerry is visiting WA and PA to stump for Cantwell and Casey! You couldn’t write this if you were a Republican strategist!
    Also Sen McCain, the MSM most favored anti Bush Republican….
    McCain apparently wasn’t convinced by John Kerry’s explanation for his “you get stuck in Iraq” comment. Campaigning for Republicans in Michigan late today, McCain said:

    “You can’t make this up. His statement, basically, was so demeaning to the men and women who are serving in the military that you will be even more grateful than you are at this moment that George Bush is president of the United States…

    You can’t make this up. His statement was that if you get an education and you do well, then you don’t have to go to Iraq, and if you don’t have an education, then you have to go to Iraq. Do you know how demeaning that is to the men and women who are serving so magnificently in the cause of freedom and are fighting and dying in Iraq today? As I said, you can’t make it up.”
    It’s morning in America.

    Comment by Gene in Pennsylvania — October 31, 2006 @ 11:20 pm - October 31, 2006

  25. Sidebar – Dan, no offense but purely as a point of information: if you believe Gryph is “usually civil”, just be aware that he seems to treat your threads differently from, say, Nick’s or Bruce’s threads, where he seems to feel free to initiate name-calling.

    “Demagogic Liars” Heh. I forgot that one. Its not slander if its true. And its really quite true.

    I’m not aware that I make any distinction between GPW’s and others posts. However, Bruce is often intentionally provocative and shrill in his postings. I think they tend to get the reaction he wants. GPW’s posts tend to be more thoughtful and nuanced. Even when he is completely and utterly wrong. Think of it as the difference between the National Enquirer and the National Review. Oh wait, bad example.

    But it is true that I don’t think you will find many examples of me being “usually civil” to Caralato, Michigan-Matt, V the K or even NDT anymore, unless you go back to posts made years ago. They don’t deserve that much of my time or respect any longer.

    Comment by Patrick (Gryph) — October 31, 2006 @ 11:30 pm - October 31, 2006

  26. I still think the most demeaning and despicable thing to do to the military as a whole and the troops and their families is send them to a war with no plan and no end. And watch them die in the process. Then hide the caskets.

    Comment by sean — October 31, 2006 @ 11:32 pm - October 31, 2006

  27. No sean – What’s more demeaning and despicable is you telling yourself those things happened, so as to make yourself feel better about your spitting on them and undermining their mission.

    Comment by Calarato — October 31, 2006 @ 11:43 pm - October 31, 2006

  28. #25 – Gryph, we already went over it in the other thread. Your case was totally disproven. Here you are, repeating that name-calling of yours and trying to bring it back.

    I would demand that you substantiate yours slurs with evidence, if you are going to try to re-start them here, except for the fact that your little games are so dumb and boring.

    Dan, I trust you see what I mean now.

    Comment by Calarato — October 31, 2006 @ 11:46 pm - October 31, 2006

  29. Oh, but while I’m here – for the record, Gryph: we all know how very much time you do spend on us.

    Comment by Calarato — October 31, 2006 @ 11:48 pm - October 31, 2006

  30. Sean you are disconnected from the reality of military families.
    courtesy email to Rich Lowrey
    Rich:

    I earned my MBA as an enlisted man before I retired in 1999 after 20 years in the Navy. Not one day of college was done in the traditional way. I earned an Associates Degree in Computer Electronics Technology, a Bachelors Degree with dual majors in Computer Information Systems and Business Administration, and my MBA the hard way…all while on active duty, working full time and supporting my family of three.

    John Kerry is a disgrace to the United States Senate as well as the United States Navy. I am writing to my Senators to ask that they ask for his immediate resignation. (Not that’ll go anywhere, but at least I’ll feel better.) That this man came so close to being Commander in Chief is truly frightening.

    Before his press conference today, I was only going to vote on Tuesday, as I really didn’t have to the time to volunteer to get out the vote.

    Now I’m energized and I will work my a— off to get Republicans to vote…

    Comment by Gene in Pennsylvania — October 31, 2006 @ 11:49 pm - October 31, 2006

  31. That was a vets email to Rich Lowrey National Review. The MSM been working for 12 months to supress Conservative turnout and in one fell swoop, Kerry’s blown it allup! I can’t get enough of this.

    Comment by Gene in Pennsylvania — October 31, 2006 @ 11:52 pm - October 31, 2006

  32. #23: “leftist blogger shouting at his campaign event was the thug.”

    Good grief! A voter shouts out a question AFTER the campaign event and that warrants him being assaulted? Reporters do that all the time. If there’s any justice, racist homohater Allen and his thugs will go down to defeat next week.

    Comment by Ian — November 1, 2006 @ 12:06 am - November 1, 2006

  33. Ian conveniently leaves out the fact that the “voter” that was subdued was a DailyKos contributor who admittedly set out to disrupt an Allen function.

    Allen’s former wife, Anne Waddell, issued a statement calling Stark’s question “a baseless, cheap shot.”

    In a Monday posting on “Calling All Wingnuts,” the blog Stark publishes, he hinted that he would attempt to provoke Allen before the TV cameras.

    “Im also trying to `Roger and Me’ George Allen whenever I can,” Stark wrote, referring to director Michael Moore’s 1989 documentary in which he repeatedly tried to confront former General Motors’ chief executive Roger Smith about the company’s downsizing.

    So, basically, a left-wing nutjob was behaving in a disruptive manner and got taken down. Then, like a big cry-baby leftist, he starts whining about “thugs.”

    Comment by V the K — November 1, 2006 @ 12:11 am - November 1, 2006

  34. Wait a minute, Ian. Wasn’t your man Franken one of those “thugs” who bodyslamed a heckler at a Dean rally? Was that cowardly and repugnant?

    Comment by VinceTN — November 1, 2006 @ 12:20 am - November 1, 2006

  35. Actually Dan – I just “got” your statement.

    I now think you were using “civil” in a relative sense? Your update politely describes Gryph as ‘of the frequent critics, usually the most civil’. That could be a very polite way of saying he’s usually the least uncivil, or generally (but not always) the least bad of a bad lot.

    My apologies for not getting it before.

    Comment by Calarato — November 1, 2006 @ 12:23 am - November 1, 2006

  36. ian and most Dems after todays events with the Vet hating John Kerry seem a bit freaked. The National Commander of the American Legion has called for an apology from Sen Kerry. I wonder if Kerry thinks he’s dumb and uneducated too? Remember the platitudes…we support the troops but not the war. How fake. They want to lead this great nation? What a joke.

    Comment by Gene in Pennsylvania — November 1, 2006 @ 12:24 am - November 1, 2006

  37. If you go out looking for trouble, and then you get smacked down, you’ve got no right to whine about it… unless you’re a complete candy-ass.

    Comment by V the K — November 1, 2006 @ 12:25 am - November 1, 2006

  38. Active duty commentors on GP have told us before: If you don’t support the mission, indeed you don’t support the troops… a home front supportive of the mission they are risking their lives for can mean a difference of life and death for them.

    Comment by Calarato — November 1, 2006 @ 12:27 am - November 1, 2006

  39. #35 Calarato: That could be a very polite way of saying he’s usually the least uncivil, or generally (but not always) the least bad of a bad lot.

    Just out of curiosity, what factors determine membership in this bad lot? 🙂

    Comment by kdogg36 — November 1, 2006 @ 12:34 am - November 1, 2006

  40. Active duty commentors on GP have told us before: If you don’t support the mission, indeed you don’t support the troops…

    You cannot imagine the military being ordered into some mission that you deem totally stupid, and voicing your support for the troops by seeking to end that mission? I am not saying that Iraq is such a mission; what I am doing is questioning the logical integrity of your post in the abstract. 🙂

    Comment by kdogg36 — November 1, 2006 @ 12:44 am - November 1, 2006

  41. After reading the assorted comments by friends and foes alike, here are my two cents on the issue:

    1. Per GPW’s header – yes, this is DEFINITELY the 2006 version of Wellstone funeral politics. But instead of burying Paul Wellstone, we’re going to be burying the Dhimmicraps in a week at the polls.

    2. Unlike Reid’s illegal land deal, Pelosi’s staged interview with 60 Minutes and the Webb smut novels, this is not an issue that can be “swept under the rug” as the DNC and their MSM allies will hope. If web traffic and talk radio are any indication, this is a meltdown of Chernobyl proportions.

    3. It gets worse. If what Dick Cheney said is true and that the terrorists are planning “something” in the next week to try and disrupt the elections (remember the 2004 Osama tape?), it will DEFINITELY push the momentum over to the GOP.

    Keep an eye on electionprojection.com’s November 5-6 tally of all weekend polls taken in all 535 House races and 33-odd Senate seats. If my intuition is still good (and I’m batting a good percentage since 1992), you will see a GOP wave that will outfloat the Dhimmi tsunami.

    You read it here first. GOP retains Congress but with ADDITIONAL seats.

    Also, kudos to VdaK, Cal, ND30 and the other gals on this site (many of whom are too numerous to mention). You made your points brilliantly.

    Regards,
    Peter H.

    Comment by Peter Hughes — November 1, 2006 @ 12:47 am - November 1, 2006

  42. With regard to John Kerry’s comments, I do find them stupid and ignorant. I used to be a teacher, and one of my best students, now Lt. John Seitz, attended the U.S. Military Academy and has flown helicopters in Iraq. To suggest that the military is only made up of failures is simply untrue and without any merit whatsoever.

    I think V the K’s comment about John Kerry being on Karl Rove’s payroll may not be that off the mark, actually. 🙂

    Comment by kdogg36 — November 1, 2006 @ 1:01 am - November 1, 2006

  43. -So, basically, a left-wing nutjob was behaving in a disruptive manner and got taken down. –

    So yelling something about divorce records mean you should be put in a chokehold?

    I don’t remember Republicans being this supportive of Al Franken when he tackled a heckler.

    As for Kerry’s remark, it’s not enough to lose an election. If Democrats lose they will lose for other reasons. He’s an idiot and most people don’t pay attention to him. The media pays attention, because all they enjoy doing is creating controversy.

    Republcians said that Webb’s novels were going to cost him the election. Yet, he’s led in every poll taken since that controversy.

    We don’t ever know how voters will react.

    Comment by Carl — November 1, 2006 @ 1:06 am - November 1, 2006

  44. No matter how leftist apologists spin this, John Kerry said what he said. And the President is 100% correct in charging that Kerry insulted our troops and demanding an apology. My prediction is that Kerry will not apologize. When he came home from Vietnam (where he was not a hero) he attempted to undermine Americans’ support for our troops in Southeast Asia. He’s not going to change his colors now.

    Comment by Ashley Hunter — November 1, 2006 @ 1:55 am - November 1, 2006

  45. Kerry won’t apologize because he thinks if he acts tough, he will get support. He still doesn’t realize no one cares about him. No one ever did.

    7 people were shot at the Castro Halloween party tonight in San Francisco. Oh God.

    http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/10/31/BAG7CM2Q454.DTL

    Comment by Carl — November 1, 2006 @ 4:53 am - November 1, 2006

  46. So yelling something about divorce records mean you should be put in a chokehold?

    He was yelling about whether Allen spat on his wife. That’s roughly equivalent to a freeper screaming at Jim Webb “Do you like to put little boys’ genitals in your mouth.”

    Hilarious the way lefties try to obscure the facts to make obnoxious-screaming-moonbat Stark into some kind of innocent.

    2. Unlike Reid’s illegal land deal, Pelosi’s staged interview with 60 Minutes and the Webb smut novels, this is not an issue that can be “swept under the rug” as the DNC and their MSM allies will hope. If web traffic and talk radio are any indication, this is a meltdown of Chernobyl proportions.

    And don’t forget Claire McCaskill’s offshore money laundering and evasion scheme. The media are making sure that stays buried.

    Comment by V the K — November 1, 2006 @ 6:20 am - November 1, 2006

  47. Yes, I agree with most here that Kerry’s remarks were stupid, and he should apologize for his remarks. Since I am not a mind reader, I have no way to know for sure exactly what Kerry intended by his remarks. Even if Kerry’s intent was what he said afterwards, he still should have apologized for his remarks.

    Again, I am not saying I believe Kerry’s response. But I am not totally dismissing it either. I don’t think I am the only one that has ever said something that came out the opposite of what I intended to say.

    As for Kerry’s gaffe being a “Wellstone Funeral Moment.” I’m not sure about that. Time will tell, I suppose. I thought in the 2004 debate when Bush refused to answer whether he thought that homosexuality was a sin. He answered that we were all sinners. I thought it was insulting and demeaning, and thought that was a huge gaffe. But apparently I was the only one who thought so. Maybe Kerry can get out of this mess by having a reporter ask him if he thinks those in the military are intellectually inferior, and responding that we all have are intellectual limits.

    Anyway, it’s hard to say what gaffes by politicians are going to stick. It is usually the ones that the media keeps alive.

    Comment by Pat — November 1, 2006 @ 9:34 am - November 1, 2006

  48. Not even NPR is buying the “it was a joke about Bush” spin. But let me ask this: The same Kerry dembots who are telling us that Kerry just mangled a joke, are these the same people who two years ago were saying Kerry deserved to be president because he was so much more articulate and well-spoken than Bush?

    Comment by V the K — November 1, 2006 @ 9:41 am - November 1, 2006

  49. V the K, how do you and NPR know for certain that Kerry did not mangle a joke, and meant what he said. All I know is that in the past, Kerry has criticized the Bush administration for their Iraq strategy, while never disparaging the soldiers there. Even so, he said it, and whether he meant it or not, he should have apologized for the stupid remark.

    As for Kerry being more articulate than Bush, I don’t think one possibly mangled remark makes him as awful as Bush in the articulation department. And Bush is awful. Personally, it doesn’t make much difference to me that a President is inarticulate. And I don’t necessarily think Kerry deserved to be President. As time goes by, Kerry is looking less deserving to be President. But I am certain that Bush didn’t deserve to be reelected.

    Comment by Pat — November 1, 2006 @ 10:02 am - November 1, 2006

  50. The Real Story of the Kostard George Allen Stalker The guy is no mere “concerned voter” and UVA law student as he presents himself. He’s a Democrat activist and a whackjob who enjoys “Guerilla Theater.” He had been planning this incident for months.

    Comment by V the K — November 1, 2006 @ 10:06 am - November 1, 2006

  51. #46: “He was yelling about whether Allen spat on his wife.”

    It wouldn’t be the only time he spat at a woman apparently. I wonder if he beat her up like he did his sister and other siblings http://tinyurl.com/tajtp . Frankly, I’m not surprised at the support for Allen and his thuggish goons here. One party authoritarian rule seems to be the accepted goal. All the better if the rulers inlude violent racist homohating misogynists.

    Once again, there was no disruption of Allen’s meeting: the incident occurred after Allen had left the ballroom and was in a public area of the hotel. I hope the guy presses charges. BTW, don’t lie about the Franken incident – the heckler became violent after he was asked to leave an actual Dean campaign event. Stark simply asked Allen an embarrassing question while Allen was walking through the hotel. After next Tuesday, the GOP better get used to being asked embarrassing questions: they’ve got plenty to be embarrassed about.

    Comment by Ian — November 1, 2006 @ 10:13 am - November 1, 2006

  52. Good post, Dan.

    Let’s remember that Kerry was making his comments in front of a group of junior college aged students who were likely pro-Kerry, pro-Gore, pro-Dean and anti-war.

    He was playing to his audience –who likes to rip on the military as ignorant brutes more than liberal college kids? Evidently, Senator Kerry and Jane Fonda and DickTurbanDurban… it’s a shame he didn’t have the smarts to apologize immediately. The whole Wellstone Funeral-Memorial outrage was also playing to the audience –and it was the lowest of the low moment.

    Kerry played to the audience in front of him –forgetting the ones behind the camera. Now there’s some political smarts. And he was trying to be critical of GWB’s schooling? LOL

    Comment by Michigan-Matt — November 1, 2006 @ 10:24 am - November 1, 2006

  53. -He was yelling about whether Allen spat on his wife. –

    Then he should have been escorted out. Being put in a chokehold and shoved around isn’t the way to go. Maybe this was all some plot by a liberal blogger, but that doesn’t excuse the people responsible.

    -Not even NPR is buying the “it was a joke about Bush” spin.-

    No one takes NPR seriously, I hope.

    Even the past and present GOP flacks like O’Reilly, and Matthew Dowd (Bush’s pollster in ’04) have defended Kerry.

    http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/

    “FNC’s O’Reilly: “I don’t believe John Kerry meant to demean any American military member. I just don’t. I think that fair-minded people know that that would be political suicide for the senator. He wouldn’t do it” (“O’Reilly Factor,” 10/31).”

    “Matt Dowd, the president’s ’04 pollster, told MSNBC’s Chris Matthews that Kerry “just misspoke” and “in no way” did he think Kerry intended to insult U.S. troops.

    And here’s ex-Maj. Leader Dick Armey, also on Hardball:

    “Well, of course, this is a perfect example of politics in America … The President wants the people to perceive [Kerry] of having maligned our troops… I think John Kerry’s right. He’s making a defense of himself. He’s saying, ‘Look, I was not maligning the troops, I was maligning the President of the United States.’”

    Comment by Carl — November 1, 2006 @ 10:24 am - November 1, 2006

  54. VdaK, nice portrait of the “free speech” college student who tried to assault Sen Allen.

    Ian, nice try to shift the debate –the “in-your-face” goon or thug in the event was the professional political guerilla who was baiting and taunting Sen Allen. I wonder if he was channeling Gryph or raj or jimmy or MikeRogers?

    We’ll always have hecklers –the problem now is that many of them have blogs.

    Comment by Michigan-Matt — November 1, 2006 @ 10:28 am - November 1, 2006

  55. Hey Carl, what’s next? Are you going to quote George Will or William F Buckley? LOL. Honest people, outside those plugged into the GayLeftBorg, can have different opinions about Kerry’s intent. It’s what marks a HUGE difference between your side of the political spectrum and mostly everyone else.

    I think the context of the comments and the venue are missing from most considerations –that, and the fact that Kerry has always had a deep seated animus toward the military. He just didn’t “filter” on this occasion and his therapist will help him sort it out later.

    For now: he demeaned the troops serving in Iraq and supporting the mission in Iraq. A true Democrat styled warrior.

    Comment by Michigan-Matt — November 1, 2006 @ 10:33 am - November 1, 2006

  56. Let’s remember that Kerry was making his comments in front of a group of junior college aged students who were likely pro-Kerry, pro-Gore, pro-Dean and anti-war.

    Exactly, And when Democrats think they’re on friendly territory, they say what they really feel. As for where the remark directed, even if it was directed at Bush (I don’t buy it), it’s still a telling Freudian slip. More telling is that Kerry didn’t apologize for it immediately. Human nature is, if you unintentionally say something that hurts someone you care about, you apologize profusely for it and try to clear up the misunderstanding. That Kerry has stuck to his remark and refused to apologize (he may later, but it’s too late now for a sincere apology) shows that either he doesn’t care that he was perceived as denigrating the troops, or that insulting the troops was what he intended to begin with.

    Comment by V the K — November 1, 2006 @ 10:53 am - November 1, 2006

  57. #54: “the “in-your-face” goon or thug in the event ”

    You shouldn’t lie when there’s video to confirm that Stark was nowhere near Allen. Indeed that’s why he had to shout his question. Allen’s thugs moved aggressively towards Stark and physically attacked and wrestled him to the floor. All for asking a simple question about a claim that has been rumored for ages. Alen and his goons could have simply ignored the question; their insane response confirms that the question hits a raw nerve. From now on, the GOP and its minions had better get used to having their raw nerves hit repeatedly. There’s plenty more: http://tinyurl.com/y8m368 , http://tinyurl.com/ud2fk, and http://tinyurl.com/strk8 This violent thuggery seems part and parcel of today’s GOP along with organized corruption on a grand scale. Our soldiers are even being abandoned in Iraq http://tinyurl.com/ya4dvl as the civil war there rages. Hoefully, next Tuesday will signal that Americans everywhere are fed up with one party rule and kick the Repubs out of power in Congress.

    Comment by Ian — November 1, 2006 @ 11:03 am - November 1, 2006

  58. I get the idea that IanRaj, lester, Kevin, and the rest of the left-wing forum apes think that those of us on the right are going to be as emotionally devastated by this loss as they have been, and that their obnoxious gloating is going to grant them some kind of emotional catharsis.

    Not so. I think we on the right are much less emotionally invested in politics than those on the left. Not so. I think there will be real upsides to a Democrat majority in congress in terms of long-term conservative goals, and I have spelled them out here. But anyone who thinks a Donk congress is going to suddenly produce a national gay marriage bill are simply delusional. They’ll be much too busy orchestrating impeachment, tax increases, surrender in Iraq, amnesty for illegals, and a Terrorist Bill of Rights.

    Comment by V the K — November 1, 2006 @ 11:11 am - November 1, 2006

  59. #39 – “what factors determine membership in [the] bad lot of GP critics?”

    kdogg, it’s listed here: http://gaypatriot.net/about-gaypatriot/

    One piece of advice it offers is “Challenge the ideas of those with whom you disagree” as opposed to their character/person. It’s been my experience that many of the “frequent critics” at GP can’t handle such a challenge, and initiate name-calling in response to what, in fact, was merely a very strong and effective challenge to their ideas. See #5 for a couple illustrations already linked.

    kdogg, I only read about 50% of what you write – but from what I have read, you are usually quite civil (if occasionally obtuse 😉 ) and I personally don’t think of you as being among the “bad lot” I mentioned to begin with.

    #40 – “You cannot imagine the military being ordered into some mission that you deem totally stupid, and voicing your support for the troops by seeking to end that mission?”

    kdogg, there are many ways to answer that. First, in #38 again, I was merely reporting what active duty military have told us on GP before. Second, I honestly can’t think of any mission our troops have been sent on that could be classed as “totally” (your word) stupid; there is always some case for the mission, even if it’s not a case I’m persuaded by.

    But let’s suppose we have such an example in hand – say, oh I don’t know, Bosnia. My way of “seeking to end the mission” would be quite different from the anti-war movement’s. I would start out saying ‘This isn’t the best or most important use of our resources and we need to end this’, in a way that is clean and open to debate. If a democratic majority of Senators continued supporting the action anyway, I would then either (a) try to think of ways we can end it by WINNING, or (b) shut up and hope for the best.

    What I would NOT do, by way of contrast, is publicly tell the troops they are “dying for a mistake” (Kerry’s famous Vietnam quote), or publicly crow that they were sent on the mission by a crook, liar and moron (Kerry’s new quote – in its amended “Kerry alternate universe” version).

    Comment by Calarato — November 1, 2006 @ 11:32 am - November 1, 2006

  60. Just a thought: do you think Cindy Sheehan is mad at Sen. John Kerry for calling her son stupid??

    Regards,
    Peter H.

    Comment by Peter Hughes — November 1, 2006 @ 11:43 am - November 1, 2006

  61. #49 – Pat, if you see the video: Kerry very plainly said what he said, then paused with a self-satisfied look for audience reaction. It was only a “botched joke” if the man is a total moron on autopilot, to a degree beyond what you and I can fathom. Which I suppose is possible, if you really want to go there.

    I, too, sometimes say the exact opposite of what I had in mind – but (1) it usually involves a single-word error (say, I was reaching for the word “day” and just somehow pulled “night”), and (2) in any case, I usually monitor words as they come out of my mouth and correct such errors as quickly as possible.

    But, as you point out, Kerry should just apologize, period. What makes his remark a big deal is the fact that, even after having TWO DAYS to think about it, he still won’t. Instead, he lashes out at others.

    Let me turn the microphone over to Captain Ed, who captures it better than me, as usual:

    Had Kerry simply come out yesterday and said, ‘Whoops, my bad — I left out a couple of key words from the punchline and left the wrong impression — my apologies!’, I think the entire story would have died immediately. However, in his typically tone-deaf manner, he decided to brand the entire incident a Republican smear, despite the fact that he had been quoted accurately.

    Now he’s left with the argument that he MISQUOTED HIMSELF while trying to show off his supposed intellectual superiority over George Bush, and that it’s all Bush’s fault despite being Kerry’s intellectual inferior.

    Comment by Calarato — November 1, 2006 @ 11:50 am - November 1, 2006

  62. Just a thought: do you think Cindy Sheehan is mad at Sen. John Kerry for calling her son stupid??

    I think she’s consulting with her publicist to see if she can use this to get on TV somehow.

    Comment by V the K — November 1, 2006 @ 11:58 am - November 1, 2006

  63. Update: Now, after 2 days, Kerry has edged closer to a half-apology (while still trying to blame Bush): http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061101/pl_nm/usa_elections_kerry_dc_1

    #53 – Carl, I have not the slightest doubt that O’Reilly is an idiot (sorry if anyone is a fan, but I have always thought so), and the others were quoted out of context.

    Again, a simple viewing of the Kerry video WON’T support the charitable interpretations being proffered, nor Kerry’s own explanation!

    Another part of what makes Kerry’s smear believable as something intentional, is the fact that Kerry has undertaken extreme smears / insults of our troops before. In reality, it is not only “something he would do”, but something he once worked very hard to do.

    Comment by Calarato — November 1, 2006 @ 12:07 pm - November 1, 2006

  64. #63 – You snatched my point. If Kerry didn’t have a history of slamming the military going back to 1971, this charge wouldn’t stick to him so easily.

    And if it was directed at Bush (I’m not convinced), doesn’t that just make him sound like a bitter sore loser?

    Comment by V the K — November 1, 2006 @ 12:10 pm - November 1, 2006

  65. I’ve put out an Amber Alert for Reid, Pelosi, Murtha, Kennedy, Clinton (both of them) and Dean. It seems that nobody can find them to respond to Ketchup Boy’s remarks. Wonder why??

    Regards,
    Peter H.

    Comment by Peter Hughes — November 1, 2006 @ 12:15 pm - November 1, 2006

  66. #64 – Especially considering that Bush got BETTER grades than Kerry at Yale, plus a Harvard MBA? Yes.

    I characterized Kerry’s new statement as a ‘half-apology’ because here is what it consists of, per the Reuters article: “”I said it was a botched joke. Of course, I’m sorry about a botched joke.”

    Nothing about, “I’m sorry for the pain I caused.”

    Comment by Calarato — November 1, 2006 @ 12:16 pm - November 1, 2006

  67. I’ve put out an Amber Alert for Reid, Pelosi, Murtha, Kennedy, Clinton (both of them) and Dean. It seems that nobody can find them to respond to Ketchup Boy’s remarks. Wonder why??

    It’s a no win for them. First of all, Dean, Pelosi, et. al are in hiding because they don’t want voters to realize that if Democrats win, Democrats will be running the country.

    Also, they don’t want to piss off the Democrats’ Kostard base, which loves the Kerry remark:

    “Talk about speaking the stark truth to students who want more out of life. The education system in California is a mess, especially in L.A. County. Each day I pick my daughter up at school I see the recruiters leaving, smiling because they have snagged another kid who’s trapped by the system and sees no future other than enlisting. It shouldn’t be like this. A 50% drop out rate is unacceptable. What is the bottom line for these kids, a job at McDonald’s or Iraq. Kudos to Kerry for delivering a wake up call to the young voters at the rally.”

    Comment by V the K — November 1, 2006 @ 12:30 pm - November 1, 2006

  68. Dear John Kerry:

    Thank you so much for making my job so much easier this election year.

    Love,
    Karl Rove

    Comment by Peter Hughes — November 1, 2006 @ 12:33 pm - November 1, 2006

  69. Ian writes: “You shouldn’t lie when there’s video to confirm that Stark was nowhere near Allen.”

    Ian, to paraphase your erroneously point: You shouldn’t throw around half-baked accusations when your words are right here to confirm it. LOL

    No lie in my statement, Ian. Knee-jerk, half-baked accusations in your words, though. Mr Stark is the kind of blogger that habits the far, radical Left of the blogosphere… he’s virulent, hot headed, arrogant to the degree that no one else’s opinion matters and he’s just plain old wrong.

    Citizen journalist?? Free Speech Advocate?? Give it a rest, will you?

    Thug and confrontationalist, is better apt.

    Here’s how that self-described citizen journalist identifies his blog

    “Calling All Wingnuts. Kickin’ ass on the lyin’ side: A never-ending battle against stupid, ugly, deceitful and corrupt right-wing water carriers….”

    Right, the poor boy was attacked by bad men. Spin it Ian, spin.

    Comment by Michigan-Matt — November 1, 2006 @ 12:33 pm - November 1, 2006

  70. #65 Exactly Peter…..Where is the calm reaction of Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi etal. Now it seems Harold Ford has asked lurch to apologize. As a vet more and more vets are steppin forward and asking Sen Kerry to resign from the Senate. if this is truly the way he feels about vets and active duty he should quit. When you look at this mans comments going all the way back to when he was an anti war protester, I’m thinking he said what he was in his heart.

    Comment by Gene in Pennsylvania — November 1, 2006 @ 12:38 pm - November 1, 2006

  71. I think that Sen McCain should amend his request for an apology from Kerry for his spiteful comments demeaning the troops in Iraq and the mission of those troops…

    Let’s ask Kerry to spend at least 4 days in a forward patrol position with some marines in Iraq. If Kerry is lucky and he sees action, he could almost make up for the phoney purple heart medal from his VN naval service.

    Nawh, that would be TOO rich.

    Comment by Michigan-Matt — November 1, 2006 @ 12:40 pm - November 1, 2006

  72. #69: My question is, does Ian even know that he’s spinning? If he does, that reflects poorly on his honesty. If he doesn’t, that reflects poorly on his intelligence. That’s a pretty stark choice.

    Comment by V the K — November 1, 2006 @ 12:41 pm - November 1, 2006

  73. Calarato, I saw the video last night. It clearly said what he said. And I can see how anyone looking at it could find it hard to understand that the comment was directed at Bush and not the soldiers. And I understand there were quotes from 1971. And Kerry may, in fact, despise the military. But since he was running for President, he made a point of criticizing the administration’s war strategy and purpose for being there, while praising the troops there. Maybe it was a Freudian slip, maybe he thought he was in a heavy anti-war group, and meant it. I find it hard to believe that he would mean to disparage the military since almost all Americans, even those against the war have been positive about the military. But then again, I find it hard to believe that he couldn’t simply apologize about the comment. Then he still could have criticized Bush for the Iraq policy. Had he done so and did so yesterday, this would have been virtually a nonstory.

    Comment by Pat — November 1, 2006 @ 12:45 pm - November 1, 2006

  74. #65: I have a mental image of Hillary air-guitaring around her office to Queen’s “Another One Bites The Dust.”

    Comment by V the K — November 1, 2006 @ 12:52 pm - November 1, 2006

  75. Of course the GOP are making a few gaffes of its own.

    GOP Pete Roscam tells Democratic candidate Tammy Duckworth that she will “Cut and Run” from Iraq if elected. Duckworth is an OIF veteran who lost both of her legs in Iraq so she doesn’t do a lot of “running”.

    At least he did apologize.

    Comment by Patrick (Gryph) — November 1, 2006 @ 12:58 pm - November 1, 2006

  76. VdaK, that’s true… Hillary is the big winner if Kerry can shoot himself hard enough in the foot –again. I wonder if Cheney can help him “sight-in”?

    Comment by Michigan-Matt — November 1, 2006 @ 12:58 pm - November 1, 2006

  77. Yeah Gryph, but Roscam isn’t the titulary leader of the Democrats… now, is he?

    And was that a “Look! Look over here. Now!” kind of moment to divert the focus away from Kerry’s stupid, demeaning comments? Keep that up and someone will contend you’re carrying water for the Democrats.

    Comment by Michigan-Matt — November 1, 2006 @ 1:01 pm - November 1, 2006

  78. And, Gryph says, “…[Roscam] did apologize.”

    What was the point of the remark, then? LOL 🙂

    Comment by Calarato — November 1, 2006 @ 1:11 pm - November 1, 2006

  79. (i.e., what was the point of comment #75… sigh)

    Comment by Calarato — November 1, 2006 @ 1:16 pm - November 1, 2006

  80. #73: “And I can see how anyone looking at it could find it hard to understand that the comment was directed at Bush and not the soldiers.”

    Even Derbyshire at NRO think it was Bush and not the troops Kerry was joking about http://tinyurl.com/yy44mg

    As for #72, the only spin is coming from you supporters of the racist Allen and his thuggery. The video shows clearly that Stark was nowhere near Allen and that Allen’s thugs attacked Stark. Stark plans to press charges and the police are already seeking the names of the goons responsible for the assault.

    Comment by Ian — November 1, 2006 @ 1:21 pm - November 1, 2006

  81. I guess it is his “wellstone funeral moment”. that was another right wing hoax. there was no incident or politicizing at the funeral. al franken writes about it in his book. it was emotional but hardly political. so, again, perfect analogy.

    Comment by lester — November 1, 2006 @ 1:24 pm - November 1, 2006

  82. I’ve heard the soundbite from Kerry many times. When you consider exactly how it sounds, and put it into the context of talking to college students, I think it’s pretty clear what he meant. “…you(students) study hard, you(students) do your homework and you(students) make an effort to be smart, you(students) can do well. If you don’t, you(students) get stuck in Iraq.”

    So, after four repetitions in which the word “you” refers to his audience, it suddenly refers to Bush? Kerry should fire his speechwriter. Also, the donks want us to believe that by sticking the word “us” between the final “you” and “get,” this statement becomes a hilarious joke. This must be that weird brand of humor that only left-wingers find funny. Like Richard Belzer and Margaret Cho.

    And frankly, why didn’t Kerry tell them the secret of his own success? Find a rich widow and marry her on the rebound?

    Comment by V the K — November 1, 2006 @ 1:34 pm - November 1, 2006

  83. If you don’t like what John Kerry said…..then don’t vote for John Kerry.

    monty

    Comment by monty — November 1, 2006 @ 2:11 pm - November 1, 2006

  84. Indeed.

    Comment by Calarato — November 1, 2006 @ 2:33 pm - November 1, 2006

  85. Calarato: Thanks for the clarification with regard to the “bad lot.” 🙂

    What I would NOT do, by way of contrast, is publicly tell the troops they are “dying for a mistake” (Kerry’s famous Vietnam quote), or publicly crow that they were sent on the mission by a crook, liar and moron (Kerry’s new quote – in its amended “Kerry alternate universe” version).

    Well, there’s a middle ground here. Still assuming that the military has been sent on a mission that one thinks is meritless and a waste of resources and probably lives, I don’t think it’s anti-troop or unpatriotic to continue to seek a change in that policy — quite the contrary.

    Once again, I should make it clear that my discussion is not about Iraq, it’s in the abstract. I hope I will be forgiven for admitting to being a bit agnostic on the War on Terror. I think some serious thinking has to be done about future plans (we have discussed that on another thread, and I was thankful to hear your thoughts), but I do not voice any opinion about withdrawing from Iraq.

    Comment by kdogg36 — November 1, 2006 @ 2:38 pm - November 1, 2006

  86. One piece of advice it offers is “Challenge the ideas of those with whom you disagree” as opposed to their character/person.

    Also, I must point out that some of my posts, which were civil as far as I can tell, were met with responses that are not totally civil. I could name names if you want, but I’d rather just get along with people as best I can. 🙂 My point is only that both defenders of the POV of this blog and critics of it sometimes snap when they read opposing views.

    Comment by kdogg36 — November 1, 2006 @ 2:42 pm - November 1, 2006

  87. #85 – kdogg, you are free to do and think what you want – But, for my part, I do not see any honest way to be agnostic about this… Or about this… Or about this.

    Comment by Calarato — November 1, 2006 @ 3:07 pm - November 1, 2006

  88. (with apologies for side-tracking into the GWOT, off Kerry)

    Comment by Calarato — November 1, 2006 @ 3:09 pm - November 1, 2006

  89. #86 – Indeed. I don’t claim everyone here is civil enough, including myself.

    The only behavior I can control is my own. Most of the time, I manage to either (1) avoid name-calling until the other guy has initiated and gotten egregious; or (2) avoid it altogether.

    #5, again, gives examples of both. (One where the person starts name-calling as a substitute for cogent argument, and I don’t do it back, though I gladly highlight their argument’s failure; another where I gave it right back to the person, I say deservedly.)

    Comment by Calarato — November 1, 2006 @ 3:25 pm - November 1, 2006

  90. John Kerrycrats Deface American Legion Building with Obscenities.

    A 20′ by 40′ flag had the words F@#% BUSH and a phallus spray painted on one of the white stripes. The grafitti was visible for at least 2 exits from the north side of the building. The flag and display around it served as a memorial to veterans and has been there since 1998. The American Legion was vandalized as well. Vandals spray painted penises and vile language on a fence outside the building.

    But, of course, the left supports the troops.

    Comment by V the K — November 1, 2006 @ 3:26 pm - November 1, 2006

  91. the original wellstone reference is a fabrication by the right.

    Comment by God of Biscuits — November 1, 2006 @ 3:31 pm - November 1, 2006

  92. #90 – V da K, you nailed it spot on. It brings to mind Peter’s Principle of Politics #501:

    Liberals love America the way OJ loved Nicole.

    Regards,
    Peter H.

    Comment by Peter Hughes — November 1, 2006 @ 3:34 pm - November 1, 2006

  93. Calarato: #85 – kdogg, you are free to do and think what you want – But, for my part, I do not see any honest way to be agnostic about this… Or about this… Or about this.

    Make no mistake, I am not agnostic about the gravity of those things, or that some action needs to be taken to make it as unlikely as possible that it will ever happen again. What I am agnostic about is the most rational and effective method of dealing with it. I am skeptical that the War in Iraq (or any future full-scale military invasions) is the best way to go, but on the other hand I must admit that I don’t have any good alternatives to offer. Thus, while hardly a fervent supporter of the War in Iraq, I don’t actively criticize it.

    Comment by kdogg36 — November 1, 2006 @ 3:58 pm - November 1, 2006

  94. You gotta feel sort of sorry for John Kerry if you have a soul. To paraphase Ann Richards, Kerry may not have been born with a silver foot, but he sure keeps putting one in his mouth.

    All he was doing was giving voice to what most Democrats really think: that our military is made up of stupid brutes and rejects that couldn’t get into college… and that serving in the military is a fourth or fifth rate choice –on a par with flipping hamburgers at McDs. That military service is below anyone.

    Maybe that disdain for the military comes across more often than not. Maybe that’s why the Armed Forces usually vote 85% GOP in presidential elections?

    Kerry spoke his heart without the normal “filtering” his therapist has been training him to use these last 2 years. He was talking to a group of college kids who he wanted to pump-up with flattery ’cause those supporters have to be the biggest group of losers in California to be STILL supporting Angelides. How hopeless and clueless can that be?

    Nope, you have to feel sorry for John Kerry. He takes himself so importantly and up to yesterday, no one else cared. Except Hillary.

    Comment by Michigan-Matt — November 1, 2006 @ 4:05 pm - November 1, 2006

  95. well, the republicans got one last “outrage” in before they left. good for them. they can savor it while they are trying to find real jobs.

    Comment by lester — November 1, 2006 @ 4:23 pm - November 1, 2006

  96. #81: Lester, you hit the nail on the head. Both episodes are perfect examples of the GOP noise machine in action. Kerry was right to go on the offensive after the Bushco attack. Now he has apologized and the GOP is pretending he didn’t. Kerry has just eliminated whatever miniscule chance he had to get the nomination in 2008.

    Comment by Ian — November 1, 2006 @ 4:52 pm - November 1, 2006

  97. Caralato – (i.e., what was the point of comment #75… sigh)

    Errr…..because it was a funny gaffe that a politician did? Are you really so lacking in a sense of humor?

    Fortunatly some people still retain a sense of humor.

    Below:

    The troops thanking Jon Kerry for his efforts on their behalf.

    http://www.blackfive.net/photos/uncategorized/heyjohnkerryasshat_1.jpg

    Comment by Patrick (Gryph) — November 1, 2006 @ 4:59 pm - November 1, 2006

  98. #95-96: Well, the resident lower-case-losers have given us the DailyKaka talking points, but guest what – we don’t buy them.

    The libtard left once again demonstrates their double-standard regarding jokes made by politicians: if you’re a Democrat, the press gets it; if you’re a Republican, you are toast.

    Whether you buy into Kerry’s explanation that this was all a botched joke is irrelevant. The reality is the Drive-By Media buys it, and they’re out in force pushing this line of thinking to extinguish this Chernobyl-like meltdown as quickly as possible.

    The much larger issue is how this compares to previous events when the press was not as forgiving of a joke that went awry on the GOP side.

    For example, remember what occurred in December 2002 when Sen Trent Lott (R-MS) made an innocent comment at the 100th birthday party of Sen. Strom Thurmond (R-NC)?

    If you recall, the MSM’s coverage forced him to resign his position as de facto Senate Majority Leader. These were Lott’s comments on that fateful day:

    “I want to say this about my state: When Strom Thurmond ran for president, we voted for him. We’re proud of it. And if the rest of the country had followed our lead, we wouldn’t have had all these problems over all these years, either.”

    Fifteen days later, as a result of unbelievable media attention on this issue, along with calls for his resignation, Lott resigned as Senate Republican Leader, and gave up his opportunity to return as Majority Leader in 2003 when the new Congress was sworn in.

    But, the media’s response to Kerry’s comments, especially coming just a week before a major midterm election, is, to say the least, much more forgiving, if not downright dismissive. And the moonbats are helping as much as they can to get it off the front page.

    Trouble is – it ain’t working. And the Dhimmicraps will pay for it at the polls, no matter how much they think it won’t.

    Regards,
    Peter H.

    Comment by Peter Hughes — November 1, 2006 @ 5:10 pm - November 1, 2006

  99. #97 – But the whole point of Duckworth demanding an apology – and receiving one – is that no, it wasn’t funny.

    Sounds like you want it both ways. You want to mention something very un-funny because it was done by a Republican… then accuse people of humorlessness (i.e., that it was funny), when they can’t see the relevance to a discussion about Kerry.

    Anyway, this is all a big distraction… as I said earlier, Gryph, when you get into your little game-playing mode, Gryph, I find your actions boring.

    Comment by Calarato — November 1, 2006 @ 5:20 pm - November 1, 2006

  100. #98 – What I don’t get is why Kerry and the Democrats think “it was a botched joke” is a defense.

    Kerry’s proposed alternate text, though ostensibly targeted at Bush, is just as insulting to the troops’ intelligence (for following Bush, re-enlisting, etc.). Kerry should apologize TO THE TROOPS now for that, as well as for the thing he actually said.

    Comment by Calarato — November 1, 2006 @ 5:29 pm - November 1, 2006

  101. #100: It’s interesting to me that (per my #82), I actually listened to the comment, put it in context, and subjected it to analysis before reaching my conclusion. But the lefties on this forum just seem to take Kerry’s explanation as-is with no questioning or thought.

    So, who is being thoughtful, here, and who is just being a mindless robot?

    Comment by V the K — November 1, 2006 @ 5:38 pm - November 1, 2006

  102. I wonder if any of those Sorry Losers who still have Kerry/Edwards bumperstickers on their cars will be taking them off now.

    Comment by V the K — November 1, 2006 @ 5:55 pm - November 1, 2006

  103. VdaK… and replacing them with what?

    Help the terrorists. Vote Democrat.

    Comment by Michigan-Matt — November 1, 2006 @ 6:03 pm - November 1, 2006

  104. #103: Pelosi/Reid… Allahu Akhbar!

    Comment by V the K — November 1, 2006 @ 6:10 pm - November 1, 2006

  105. I wonder if any of those Sorry Losers who still have Kerry/Edwards bumperstickers on their cars will be taking them off now.

    Given the cars on which I’ve seen them, I doubt it; in a lot of cases, they’re holding on the bumper or rear window. 🙂

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — November 1, 2006 @ 6:13 pm - November 1, 2006

  106. Another one of my personal observations is that with respect to bumper stickers, it makes no difference if you are left or right. The number of statements plastered all over your car is inversely proportionate to the level of your IQ, but definitely proportionate to your “shrill” factor.

    Regards,
    Peter H.

    Comment by Peter Hughes — November 1, 2006 @ 6:16 pm - November 1, 2006

  107. The number of statements plastered all over your car is inversely proportionate to the level of your IQ, but definitely proportionate to your “shrill” factor.

    I recall that during the 2004 election, someone spotted a car with bumper stickers reading “Humanity is a virus” “Voluntary Human Extinction Movement” “More trees less people” and of course, “Kerry/Edwards.”

    Comment by V the K — November 1, 2006 @ 6:20 pm - November 1, 2006

  108. Oh, and Botox Boy just apologized today to all service personnel via a note on his website. Drudge is carrying it above the fold.

    But rest assured, even though we may forgive, we will NOT forget. Words are like bullets fired out of a gun – you can’t take them back no matter how hard you try. Especially if they wound someone.

    The point is that Kerry made a comment that he could not back up. And being a “decorated Vietnam war veteran” (insert joke here), he should know better than to make any comments that could be construed out of context.

    If Robert Byrd began a joke by saying, “There’s a white man, a kike, a gook and a negro in a bar,” chances are his most loyal supporters would tear him away from the microphone and tell the crowd that it’s time for the Senator’s afternoon nap. The one-time Kleagle just can’t joke about such things.

    It would also be like Hillary talking about being a single woman on her own, or addressing a crowd of women at a support group for cheating spouses. You just don’t put yourself in that situation. The repercussions would be bigger than an H-bomb going off. Not to mention late-night fodder for Leno and Letterman.

    Speaking of which – wonder if either one of them has or will address this turn of events?

    Regards,
    Peter H.

    Comment by Peter Hughes — November 1, 2006 @ 6:24 pm - November 1, 2006

  109. #81 lester, ok now I know you dont know what you are talking about. the Wellstone Memorial went on for over 6 hours. And you said there was nothing political about it??? I watched it. It was unbelievably political. Educate yourself sir or you may end up in……. ooops.

    Comment by Gene in Pennsylvania — November 1, 2006 @ 6:58 pm - November 1, 2006

  110. peter H- neither the MSM or the democrats forced trent lott to resign. he and daschle were good friends, sure there was some PC loonies who called for him to resign, but hey this was the 90’s. it was HIS OWN party. check out mona charen and david horowitz’s columns from that time. they wanted him out because they wanted their neo con bretheren in.

    Comment by lester — November 1, 2006 @ 6:59 pm - November 1, 2006

  111. So Mr Kerry has now “apologized”. If anyone misunderstood or didn’t get his joke, he apologizes. I’m an ex serviceman…so if I was dumb and stupid enough to not be able to read his mind. And know what he really meant….he’s sorry. That’s an apology? No thanks. Resign Mr Kerry. The list of Democrats who didn’t get the joke continues to grow. It seems interesting though that the Dems also asking for an apology are the ones in close election races. I want to know what Pelosi, Rangle, Dean and other hard left Dems think of the comments.
    My next serious question…which Democrats felt comfortable enough with this man to make him their nominee just 2 years ago? How could their judgement be so horribly bad? These are the Democrats we are now suppose to trust with running the country.These people aren’t serious enough to be in charge of the government. In Pennsylvania…Bob Casey Jr said Mr Kerry was just poking fun, making a joke. Service people fighting and dieing to keep us safe, liberals too, are the butt of jokes. This is how most liberals feel about the military, the mask is off. Resign Mr Kerry.

    Comment by Gene in Pennsylvania — November 1, 2006 @ 7:10 pm - November 1, 2006

  112. #97 http://www.blackfive.net/photos/uncategorized/heyjohnkerryasshat_1.jpg

    These service people who’ve been kicked in the groin continue to have a sense of humor. Talk about character. I LOVE EM!

    Comment by Gene in Pennsylvania — November 1, 2006 @ 7:12 pm - November 1, 2006

  113. I’m willing to forgive someone I support for a one-time gaffe….unlike a certian president who has to have his mis-statements expained by his staff over and over and over and over and over and over and over agin…

    Comment by Kevin — November 1, 2006 @ 7:23 pm - November 1, 2006

  114. But rest assured, even though we may forgive, we will NOT forget. Words are like bullets fired out of a gun – you can’t take them back no matter how hard you try. Especially if they wound someone.

    I do agree with that. But I also won’t forget the many politicians of both parties who have made the disgusting and demeaning claim that marriage needs to be defended from me and my boyfriend, or that children will be harmed if society recognizes our relationship as a marriage. And I have yet to hear an apology from anyone who’s said that.

    Comment by kdogg36 — November 1, 2006 @ 7:29 pm - November 1, 2006

  115. #110 lester, you’re right. Republican pressure forced Sen Lott to resign his leadership post. Republicans have higher standards and expect more from our representatives. Delay is under a cloud, Foleys dirty IM’s, Livingstones infedelity, them and others gone. We don’t like creepy bastards holding our party banner. Contrast that please with Klansmen, Pimps, guys stashing cash in their freezers, million dollar real estate flips, and drunk drivers killing girl friends, guys raping pages, on and on. These people didn’t resign and some still serve their districts. It’s simple, some voters have higher standards than others and demand more of their representatives. Kerry won’t be asked to resign by the MSM or his Mass. voters.

    Comment by Gene in Pennsylvania — November 1, 2006 @ 8:08 pm - November 1, 2006

  116. My next serious question…which Democrats felt comfortable enough with this man to make him their nominee just 2 years ago? How could their judgement be so horribly bad?

    In order to understand the Democrats’ mentality, you have to look at the groups that make up their most staunch voters — and realize that their reaction is the standard on which Democrats base their strategy.

    Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, despite both being hopelessly inept and corrupt, pull in their voters because they’re black.

    Barney Frank and Gerry Studds, despite being walking sex scandals, pull in gays because they’re homosexuals.

    With that in mind, Kerry’s choice makes perfect sense; because he was a veteran, people who were veterans and supported the military would vote for him.

    They didn’t expect voters to look past the superficial.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — November 1, 2006 @ 8:13 pm - November 1, 2006

  117. I think the sentiment was insulting, even as a joke, even if he’d used some other example entirely as a motivation to study hard in college.

    It’s elitist. Classist.

    My grandmother was the same way. College graduates were better than other people. Physicians and lawyers were practically diety.

    I love my grandmother but I’ll admit that the result is that I’ve got an attitude. My father is likely the smartest person I know (next to my mom) but he worked in maintenance all his life, never finished college, and so none of his good qualities really mattered, honesty and faithfulness, hard work… the college grad sons-in-law, the ones with masters in education or the PhD university professor, impossible to live with, divorced from my mother’s sisters in short order… they were still better than my Dad.

    College shouldn’t be about avoiding the disgrace of working for a living (as any sergeant will explain he or she does) it should be about having the career that you want to have, that pleases you… not that one that pleases others.

    I don’t care what Kerry says about the military, he’s done far more than he can ever take back. (Well, he *could* say “I was wrong” about his actions after Vietnam but he won’t.)

    This new statement just can’t be fixed, even if it’s changed not to mention the military at all.

    Comment by Synova — November 1, 2006 @ 8:24 pm - November 1, 2006

  118. I’m willing to forgive someone I support for a one-time gaffe…

    One time gaffe? Um, so what about accusing the troops of War Crimes in 1971? What about accusing troops earlier this year of terrorizing Iraqi children?

    Some people apparently are completely incapable of basic pattern recognition.

    It’s said goldfish only remember things for four seconds. I propose Kevin be referred to as Kevin the Goldfish from now on.

    Comment by V the K — November 1, 2006 @ 9:15 pm - November 1, 2006

  119. Question I’m going to paraphrase from HughHewitt.com today:

    Given that Kerry really said what he said (see #1), “botched joke” or no… Why did so many Democrats and media make it their top priority to defend Kerry? rather than the troops?

    Comment by Calarato — November 1, 2006 @ 9:21 pm - November 1, 2006

  120. #118 – Good point, V. Only someone with no memory (or little knowledge, perhaps) of Kerry’s career could speak of it as a “one time gaffe”.

    Comment by Calarato — November 1, 2006 @ 9:24 pm - November 1, 2006

  121. Hillary Clinton said Sen Kerry s comment was “inappropriate”. Less than 2 years ago this woman and her husband campaigned to put Sen Kerry, who hates the military and thinks they re all dummies in the White House. Her ability to shrug off character flaws of the men in her house and her party is amazing. Early on in the Clinton Presidencey Hill and Bill tried to excuse uniformed guards from the White House. They didn’t want them around. Until aides convinced them that that would play poorly out in fly over country. It’s said Ms Clinton always bristled at having ceremonial military around the mansion. These people despise those that man the walls and keep them free.

    Comment by Gene in Pennsylvania — November 1, 2006 @ 9:29 pm - November 1, 2006

  122. I’ve never seen 121 responses to any thread before. Guess where the New York Times put the Kerry disgrace today? Page 18. And then it took them til paragraph 15 to quote the Kerry slam of the troops. All the NEWS that’s fit to print.

    Comment by Gene in Pennsylvania — November 1, 2006 @ 9:42 pm - November 1, 2006

  123. #122: But “macaca” was page A-1.

    Comment by V the K — November 1, 2006 @ 10:03 pm - November 1, 2006

  124. Google Search for ‘Macacawitz site:nytimes’:

    0 results.

    Comment by Frank IBC — November 1, 2006 @ 11:00 pm - November 1, 2006

  125. Is anyone going to attempt an answer to my comment #114? When can I expect my apology from politicians of both parties who have, repeatedly and without retraction, hurled insults at me that are just as stupid and ridiculous as the one Kerry hurled at the military? I think those who support specific politicians who have hurled those stupid, ridiculous insults should tell me when I can expect that apology.

    Comment by kdogg36 — November 2, 2006 @ 12:01 am - November 2, 2006

  126. kdogg, the only person’s behavior I control is my own, so I can’t tell you when unnamed politician X (whom I may support on Y, while also disagreeing with or condemning them on Z) will apologize for ABC, any more than I can tell you when Kerry will ever apologize for his outrageous anti-military slanders of 1971.

    If you feel strongly about the necessity of your receiving apologies from certain politicians, then why don’t you lead the charge? Consider starting a blog.

    Comment by Calarato — November 2, 2006 @ 12:25 am - November 2, 2006

  127. P.S. I have answered your question as a courtesy at my own option; be sure not to over-play the “I demand answers” card.

    Comment by Calarato — November 2, 2006 @ 12:28 am - November 2, 2006

  128. #125 In the arena of ideas we all get hurled insults at us occasionally. I for one think it’s different when someone tries to humiliate the troops who are simply manning the barricades and succeeding in protecting our freedoms. Those men and women who can lose their lives in an instant aren’t attacking you kdogg.

    Comment by Gene in Pennsylvania — November 2, 2006 @ 12:40 am - November 2, 2006

  129. Calarato: “I demand answers” is a rather strong paraphrasing of my request (“I think those who… should…”) If people here are expecting — rightfully — an apology/explanation from John Kerry, I think it’s equally valid for me to expect an apology from politicians who have said stupid, utterly meritless, insulting things about us and our relationships. I am in no way criticizing people here for holding Kerry responsible for his stupidity; I just want them to hold other politicians equally responsible for theirs.

    By the way, I don’t expect anyone here to answer my questions for anything other than their own purposes, and in their own self-interest. I suspect that you and I start from pretty much identical premises, but in some areas we’ve reached very different conclusions. That doesn’t mean I don’t consider us to be basically political allies.

    Comment by kdogg36 — November 2, 2006 @ 12:41 am - November 2, 2006

  130. Those men and women who can lose their lives in an instant aren’t attacking you kdogg.

    I don’t claim otherwise. What I do claim is that many politicians of both establishment parties are insulting gay people, and I don’t find that qualitatively any less pernicious than what Kerry said about troops in Iraq.

    Comment by kdogg36 — November 2, 2006 @ 12:44 am - November 2, 2006

  131. Calarato: Just out of curiosity, do you consider yourself to be an Objectivist, or at least basically in that ballpark? Many of the things you say lead me to think that you may be. I am a longtime student of Objectivism, and I agree with the basic premises while, obviously, disagreeing with many conclusions of the current Objectivist movement. Especially considering that Ayn Rand wrote precious little about foreign intervention in her lifetime, I am not at all sure that the ARI has done a better job applying rational principles to the current world situation than I have.

    Comment by kdogg36 — November 2, 2006 @ 12:51 am - November 2, 2006

  132. -Honest people, outside those plugged into the GayLeftBorg, can have different opinions about Kerry’s intent-

    Really? It seems like some were very upset if everyone did not angrily condemn his comment and claim that this would lose Congress for the Democrats.

    Comment by Carl — November 2, 2006 @ 1:32 am - November 2, 2006

  133. So I see that Kerry finally “apologized.” I would have preferred him saying “I am sorry for offending…” instead of “I am sorry if I may have offended…” But that is usually good enough for an apology these days. (See homophobic sports players/coaches apologies when they make stupid homophobic remarks). Although it is a day late, it looks like it has diffused the situation for Democrats. But it also looks like John Kerry has virtually 0 chance of being the 2008 Democratic nominee. So that’s a good thing.

    kdogg, I agree with your point about apologies. Most everybody feels that any remark insulting the military should be condemned, and should be followed by an apology, which is fine by me. But when it is against homosexuals, it’s no big deal. Yes, in my view (and I may be the only one who feels this way) Bush insulted all homosexuals when he couldn’t state that homosexuality was not a sin. No apology forthcoming. (Although maybe if he had implied homosexuals were stupid, an apology would have been demanded and received.) And when Kerry supported the Missouri amendment that would have also banned civil unions, no apology was forthcoming from him either. And unfortunately, even most gay people didn’t seem to demand an apology.

    Comment by Pat — November 2, 2006 @ 8:04 am - November 2, 2006

  134. “I am in no way criticizing people here for holding Kerry responsible for his stupidity; I just want them to hold other politicians equally responsible for theirs.”

    How do you know they don’t? This is a thread about Kerry. There have been other threads about other politicians (some anti-gay, some not). And if you don’t think there are enough: You can (1) write Dan and Bruce suggesting topics (I have); and/or (2) visit many other fine gay blogs.

    And kdogg – Peikoff Sucks 😉 Some of the others at ARI are OK. TOC is OK (http://theobjectivistcenter.org). I could say tons more about Objectivism, but that gives you my News Headline version.

    One thing Ayn Rand did write about foreign policy is that it should boldly serve actual U.S. national interests. She objected to the Vietnam War because it didn’t, and also because it was being fought by conscription (the draft), which I agree is basically slavery.

    That raises interestings question about similarities / differences to the Iraq War. In its favor:

    – Iraq isn’t being fought by mass conscription (slavery).
    – Iraq is being fought smarter than Vietnam (much lower U.S. death toll).
    – Iraq kills real terrorists and advances democracy and U.S. power in a critical region. The liberals even say Iraq is a “war for oil” (hah hah). Contra them, serving U.S. interests is a very good thing, remember.

    On the other hand:

    – Our leaders still won’t advance a coherent MORAL theory as to why we are fighting in Afghanistan and in Iraq. Bush rightly calls the terrorists evil. But he refuses to name (and thus to effectively fight) what they really are: Islamic jihadists. He also refuses to say we are fighting for Western individual freedoms and Western civilization. Instead he fudges it by saying we are fighting for “democracy” – fudgy because any Islamic democracy can vote to oppress its people, and/or support the jihadists.

    – Also, why are we willing to let the war drag on? Iran and Syria are the mischief-makers making it drag – why have we not invaded / punished them? Come to think of it: After 9-11, why didn’t we just figure out the country that really backed it (because there had to be one – it was too lengthy and complex for Osama to do alone) and just nuke that country?

    Without taking a position here, I find those interesting questions.

    Robert Tracinski writes from an Objectivist perspective, and has posted a lot of good stuff this year, over at RealClearPolitics: http://realclearpolitics.com/search/?query=tracinski

    Comment by Calarato — November 2, 2006 @ 11:29 am - November 2, 2006

  135. (“Islamic jihadists” meaning traditional Muslims Islamic jihadists, i.e., the jihadism we’re seeing is actually something traditional / ingrained in Islam)

    Comment by Calarato — November 2, 2006 @ 12:00 pm - November 2, 2006

  136. Back to Kerry: as posted by another GP commentor, and on Drudge and elsewhere: Kerry’s ’72 Army Comments Mirror Latest.

    During a Vietnam-era run for Congress three decades ago, John Kerry said he opposed a volunteer Army because it would be dominated by the underprivileged, be less accountable and be more prone to “the perpetuation of war crimes”…he opposed the draft but considered a volunteer army “a greater anathema” [ed: ???????? it’s a binary choice there, and he managed to oppose both?????]…”a volunteer army would be an army of the poor and the black and the brown,” Kerry wrote.

    Comment by Calarato — November 2, 2006 @ 12:21 pm - November 2, 2006

  137. #133 Pat: Thanks for the response. I agree with you completely, on every point.

    Comment by kdogg36 — November 2, 2006 @ 12:36 pm - November 2, 2006

  138. Calarato: I will look at Tracinski’s blog; I have read some things by him before. Thanks for taking time to clarify your thoughts.

    Incidentally, here’s what I think Bush should have done after 9/11. Call me crazy, but I think this would have worked well, with minimal loss of life — perhaps on both sides, almost definitely in terms of US casualties.

    He should have picked some Muslim holy site — maybe not Mecca or Medina, but some significant holy place. He should have given one day’s notice, telling people to evacuate that area within 24 hours. At the end of that time, he should have used some really big bombs to utterly destroy that holy site. Maybe tactical nuclear bombs would have been a good choice for this, as a show of real force. In any event, he should have made it clear that the nuclear option was on the table, and that, if Islamic fascists ever attacked people in the United States again, he would pretty much obliterate Islam from the face of the earth.

    Again, you may think I’m insane, but I think that would have been more sensible and more effective than invading and occupying a country that has been either a dictatorship or an unstable mess for many decades and trying to tame it.

    Comment by kdogg36 — November 2, 2006 @ 12:46 pm - November 2, 2006

  139. That’s interesting. I don’t agree but I can undestand why you would say it.

    Again, I think the source of continued “instability” is actually Iran and Syria, and it would clean itself up in about 10 minutes if we played hardball with them. (Though I’m not 100% sure what that would look like.)

    Even restricting our actions to Iraq, I think it would get appreciably better if we just made Mookie al Sadr dead – period – and took out his militia. Iraq is now BECOMING more like Vietnam in that, due to the endless vicious and self-indulgent (in the bad sense) attacks on our troops and leaders from the Left, creeping timidity is setting in.

    Political timidity ultimately did Johnson in: given that we were in Vietnam, he should have just invaded North Vietnam in 1966, getting it over with. Instead, he was hunkered in the White House Situation Room in 1968 personally vetting bomb targets. At least Bush ISN’T doing that.

    BTW, here would be the example you asked about – where I don’t agree with the mission (Johnson’s approach to Vietnam), but my criticism takes the form of (retroactively) thinking how we can WIN and get it over with.

    Comment by Calarato — November 2, 2006 @ 1:24 pm - November 2, 2006

  140. I expect an equally-damning post on Boehner’s comments.

    Of course that won’t happen because you’re hypocrites.

    Comment by God of Biscuits — November 2, 2006 @ 1:43 pm - November 2, 2006

  141. O Defenders of Difficult Truths, I wonder how the median IQ of enlisted folks compares to the general population.

    I’m not saying it matters, but it is germane to the topic.

    Comment by God of Biscuits — November 2, 2006 @ 1:47 pm - November 2, 2006

  142. #140-41: Interesting you should bring up hypocrisy.

    Do you recall the Pope’s speech on Islam? Amazingly the media refused to give him the same benefit of the doubt back in September.

    All the Pope did was use some ancient text regarding Islam during a speech and Muslims went off on another version of the Cartoon Jihad. Then the Vatican released a statement on behalf of Pope Benedict in response to the Muslim reaction. Here is a snip from the statement…

    “The Holy Father thus sincerely regrets that certain passages of his address could have sounded offensive to the sensitivities of the Muslim faithful, and should have been interpreted in a manner that in no way corresponds to his intentions.”

    The media’s coverage left no doubt that the Pope’s statement was not an apology. Yet we’re supposed to believe the same EXACT thing that Botox Boy said in response to his remarks?

    Get real.

    Regards,
    Peter H.

    Comment by Peter Hughes — November 2, 2006 @ 1:56 pm - November 2, 2006

  143. GoB, I don’t know if that information is available since IQ tests haven’t been regularly done for quite some time, having fallen out of favor when I was a kid. Also, I don’t think it’s entirely relevant to compare only enlisted to the general population… why not include officers? All officers have at least one college degree, many enlisted do as well, but if comparisons are made they should be made for everyone in the same age group in the military.

    Comment by Synova — November 2, 2006 @ 2:08 pm - November 2, 2006

  144. Synova, GoB is just looking for something that he can use to back up Kerry’s demeaning but sincere comments about the soldiers serving in Iraq. God Bless Him, GoB is actually THAT dumb.

    It’s almost as if GoB agrees with LurchKerry’s stupid slam against the soldiers. But then GoB is a screamin’ GayLeftBorg minion so, go figure. It makes sense given his other nonsense here and on his blog.

    This is the point where LurchKerry will have snatched “defeat” out of the jaws of election victory for the Democrats. That’s why candidates are begging him to get his silver-footed elitist snob ass back to DC.

    Meanwhile, George, George Sr, Barbara, Laura, and dozens of other Bushes have joined the Cheneys –including Mary Cheney– to stump for GOP candidates across the US.

    Where’s NancyP? Where’s ScreaminHowieDean? Where’s HarryR? Where’s LyinJoeBiden? Where’s TeddieTheLeacher? All hiding in hopes the voters will be fooled by their absence.

    Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory… it’s yet ANOTHER pattern of the Kerry Kampaign Kamp. At least Gore knows it’s wise to lay low. And CindySheehan. And MikeyMoore. And BabsStreisand. And AlecBaldwin. et cetera ’til you puke.

    Comment by Michigan-Matt — November 2, 2006 @ 2:32 pm - November 2, 2006

  145. Dan (GPW) – if you are still reading this thread – Follow-up to my earlier sidebar comments – More of the behavior that I really don’t think merits praise from you (as “civil”), on display here: http://gaypatriot.net/2006/11/01/a-photo-that-says-it-all#comment-179218

    Comment by Calarato — November 2, 2006 @ 3:57 pm - November 2, 2006

  146. Utter bullshit, Matt, but thanks for trying to read my mind.

    You people spend so much time backing up the adminsitration and every republican out there, then you accuse the dems of bending over backwards to back up Kerry?

    Where’s your vitriol for what Boehner said?

    You don’t care about anything other than the dems NOT getting into power. You’ll back up your guys until you’re dead before you accept Dems in power.

    Comment by God of Biscuits — November 2, 2006 @ 4:26 pm - November 2, 2006

  147. Where’s your vitriol for what Boehner said?

    Well, first, let’s look at what Boehner said:

    In an interview Wednesday on CNN, Boehner said, “Let’s not blame what’s happening in Iraq on Rumsfeld.”

    CNN’s Wolf Blitzer replied, “But he’s in charge of the military.”

    “The fact is, the generals on the ground are in charge, and he works closely with them and the president,” Boehner, an Ohio Republican, said.

    You are correct that Rumsfeld is technically “in charge of the military”. But the fact of the matter is that that is in the same context as a CEO being in charge of a company; s/he determines long-term strategy and looks over the enterprise as a whole. It is the generals on the ground in Iraq who are determining the actual tactical and strategic deployments and activities in that region.

    Pointing out that the generals are in charge of what is going on in Iraq is hardly hateful; even if you think that Boehner is criticizing the generals, that’s a handful of people.

    Kerry, on the other hand, is saying that our military men and women are stupid — quite in line with his previous accusations that they’re baby-killers.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — November 2, 2006 @ 6:41 pm - November 2, 2006

  148. “Where’s your vitriol for what Boehner said?”

    What exactly DID he say, GoB-stopper? It must not have been anything of consequence, because the usual DNC house organs (NYT and WaPo) didn’t have it screaming in their headlines.

    Not that what they say counts as “news.” Interestingly enough, out of approximately 500 major daily newspapers in the USA, only TWO of them ran the same photo that Gay Patriot has shown of our brave men in Iraq dropping their own “smart bomb” on Botox Boy. Read here for more:

    http://aarons.cc/jon-carry.htm

    And yes, those two papers were sure as hell NOT the NYT or WaPo. Media bias, anyone?

    Regards,
    Peter H.

    Comment by Peter Hughes — November 2, 2006 @ 6:41 pm - November 2, 2006

  149. Dan, GPW, if it’s not too late I’d like to respond to your basic question.

    First, Idon’t think what happened at Paul Wellstone’s funeral had much impact outside of Minnesota. There it likely played a role in Walter Mondale’s loss.

    Secondly, I doubt if John Kerry’s statement will have much impact on what happens next Tuesday. It might knock a point or two off Bob Casey’s margin in Pennsylvania because his reaction might be construed as defending Kerry.

    I’ve had second thoughts about the whole thing. After seeing the clip of Kerry’s remarks on TV I initially condemned him. But I wondered why just a week before a critical election he’d attack our troops. He’s an elitist snob out of touch with real America, but he’s not a fool. Then I had a chance to read the full text of his remarks, including his criticism of President Bush in the moments before he made an attempt at “humor”. While it came out sounding like an attack on our troops — and for that he did owe the troops and their families an apology — I don’t really think he was attacking them. In its full context I now believe that he really was trying to make a joke about Bush failing to “study” all the ramifications of going to war in Iraq and he botched the joke. (He ought to leave stand up political comedy to fellow leftists Jay Leno and David Letterman.)

    Comment by Ashley Hunter — November 2, 2006 @ 6:48 pm - November 2, 2006

  150. 11,000 casualties on D Day as we began to liberate Europe. The final out come was indoubt. 11,000 casualties, who was to “blame” FDR or Eisenhower? CNN today asked their e mail question: mess in Iraq, who’s to blame Rumsfeld or the Generals? They are consistent.

    Comment by Gene in Pennsylvania — November 2, 2006 @ 7:59 pm - November 2, 2006

  151. Boehner blamed the Generals for the failures in Iraq, ironically while int he process of bending over backwards to defend the bush administration (Rummy in particular).

    He BLAMED THE GENERALS FOR THE FAILURES. Do you agree? if so, the terrorists have already won.

    Peter H. let me get this right: you falsely accuse the media of being liberal, so if the media isn’t reporting an anti-republican thing, it must not be a big deal?

    Get your head out of your ass.

    Gene: who’s to pay for the 100,000+ human beings dead in Iraq who had nothing to do with Saddam/WMDs/[insert 15 other reasons we’re in Iraq here] ?

    Or don’t Iraqi lives mean as much as American lives?

    Comment by God of Biscuits — November 2, 2006 @ 8:15 pm - November 2, 2006

  152. GoB-stopper, my head is nowhere near my anal cavity. In fact, I went to my colorectal surgeon the other day and he assured me that my head was nowhere near it.

    Oh, bad joke…we seem to be having a lot of them around here lately.

    In case you hadn’t heard, the MSM is vitriolic in its leftist slant. And who do you think admitted as much? No less than Mark Halperin, political director of ABC News himself! Read the whole thing if you’ve got the intestinal fortitude:

    http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/Transcript_Page.aspx?ContentGuid=45b91780-4b5d-48ff-85a3-5c03f3f6119f

    Straight from the donkey’s mouth. The closest comparison I can find is Goebbels admitting that he is anti-Semitic.

    Checkmate.

    Comment by Peter Hughes — November 2, 2006 @ 8:41 pm - November 2, 2006

  153. Oh, my… another one is repeating the Boehner talking point.

    Comment by Frank IBC — November 2, 2006 @ 9:09 pm - November 2, 2006

  154. So, the Democrats are somehow trying to twist what Boehner said to justify what Kerry said.

    Pathetic.

    Lame.

    Typical.

    Comment by V the K — November 2, 2006 @ 9:11 pm - November 2, 2006

  155. GoB, sorry to note you have it wrong again –just being a bear doesn’t mean when you growl, all the conservative gays go running. We usually just stand put and laugh at those antics of yours GoB.

    Boehner didn’t do anything of the sort you’re claiming –well, not really you as in “it was your original thought” ’cause that one has been spinning on the DailyKos and MyDD as a talking point to deflect from LurchKerry for about 36 hours. Sorry, wrong again, GoB.

    And while we’re on it: why do you equate a terrorist life or someone killed by a terrorist or collateral damage in a war with an American GI’s life? When did you skip “patriotism” in Civics class at the local jr college?

    I do hold American GI lives and other soldiers’ lives in higher regard than I do Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, Udai und Kusai Hussein, Rafa Abdul Salam Hamud al-Ithawi, Qaed Salim Sinan al-Harethi, Omar al-Farouq, Muhsin Musa Matwalli Atwah or Hamadi ‘Abd al-Tahki al-Nissani lives. Frankly, while I mourn the loss of innocent life during the liberation of Iraq, I don’t think putting our soldiers in peril while you and others sort out your feelings is a good military move. The loss of innocent Iraqi life could have been avoided if your pals in the Human Shields for Saddam brigade had helped convince the terrorist-arming dictator to allow inspections to proceed unfettered.

    The question for most patriots —except from the BlameAmericaFirst crowd you habit— is why wouldn’t you? Why do you hate America so much? Why do you resent the use of force to defend America’s interests and shut down al Qaeda? Why do you hate the military and its leaders, your Pres George Bush, twice elected and serving with distinction and honor?

    Why do you, GoB, find shelter and succor with our enemies and their complicit “friends” like France, Russia and Syria?

    Those are the more penetrating questions for you. Keep you eye on the ball, GoB. And the bear act aint’ cutting it. Fashion tip: less growl, do hair implants.

    Comment by Michigan-Matt — November 2, 2006 @ 9:20 pm - November 2, 2006

  156. #150, and OT: 11,000 casualties, who was to “blame” FDR or Eisenhower?

    I don’t blame FDR for that (I credit Eisenhower). But I do blame FDR for many other things. As I’ve probably made clear to regulars here, he is by far my least favorite president — it isn’t even close. 🙂

    Comment by kdogg36 — November 2, 2006 @ 10:34 pm - November 2, 2006

  157. #155: just being a bear doesn’t mean when you growl, all the conservative gays go running.

    No, but all the twinks do!

    Comment by kdogg36 — November 2, 2006 @ 10:37 pm - November 2, 2006

  158. Thanks M Matt. Bisquick…..I don’t accept that 100,000 Iraquis have died but if they have, how many were attacking Americans and innocent Iraqis? It’s sad that you give no weight to the freed Women and children in Iraq. To you they are worth nothing. The last 5 years Sadaam would have killed far more. But to you they are only Muslims and Kurds, who cares.The troops in Iraq want to save that country and their people. We’ve killed over 4,000 terrorists in Iraq by their own count. Do you count them in the 100,000? You exhibt why liberals can’t be given the levers of power in this country because there’s never a war they’d fight. They don’t have the stones for it. ie: John F’n Kerry. It’s all talk.

    Comment by Gene in Pennsylvania — November 2, 2006 @ 10:41 pm - November 2, 2006

  159. And actually, I find it ironic that GoB is complaining about Iraqi lives lost, given that he and his fellow Democrats didn’t seem to give a tinker’s cusp about the hundreds of thousands of lives Saddam erased while under UN sanction.

    But then again, Saddam was paying them and their leftist allies to keep their mouths shut and the UN off his back.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — November 3, 2006 @ 2:42 am - November 3, 2006

  160. NDXXX, now come on. You know the liberals can’t criticize the UN because the GayLeftBorg will self-destruct by implosion. The UN was helpless in the slaughter of innocent Iraqis under Saddam… they wanted to help. Like in East Africa where the UN soldiers rape native tribes before stealing their food. They were helpless in Iraq… otherwise rapes would have been up.

    Comment by Michigan-Matt — November 3, 2006 @ 1:50 pm - November 3, 2006

  161. M-Matt, like I always say:

    “Raise your hand if you like the UN. Raise both your hands if you ARE the UN.”

    Regards,
    Peter H.

    Comment by Peter Hughes — November 3, 2006 @ 6:11 pm - November 3, 2006

  162. Bush Says (11/04/06) in Greeley, CO “The Only Way We Can Win Is To Leave Before The Job Is Done”… Well, well, well. We can’t have this now , can we boys? Rally ’round the flag boys. Time for this one to go home……..(now who are the hypocties???)

    Comment by Clarence — November 4, 2006 @ 6:02 pm - November 4, 2006

  163. Heya Clarence, you really do need to read the whole talking point at DailyKos before posting… and what is a hypocties? And why are you against flag boys? Do you know the effort those guys go through to perform the banner swishing at all those tea parties? The handstands may be fab but they come at a painful price. Major metacarpal tunnel, dude. Layoff the flag boys… they’re a vital part of our gay community.

    Comment by Michigan-Matt — November 6, 2006 @ 2:26 pm - November 6, 2006

  164. Actually, I care a lot about anyone being killed. Doesn’t that make me a bleeding-heart liberal? Look at you, so twisted around your own sad arguments that you’re coming at me from the left.

    What about all the crimes against women by the Taliban, whom we supported until we didn’t? All the conservatives who turned a deaf ear to protests by the “free world” about our support of a regime which murdered and maimed women were surpasseed only by those loud-mouthed republicans who called the protestor extremist liberals who didn’t get that we needed the taliban for strategic reasons.

    You point fingers at “talking points”, when all you do is focus on talking points (kerry makes a gaffe and that’s all the mainstream media AND the right blogosphere can talk about for DAYS)?

    Boehner blamed the generals on the ground for the war not going well. You can’t spin that simple fact. Not like you can name-call (how many different names have I been called now, whereas I have not twisted any of your names?) and focus on ridiculous distractions.

    Face it, you’re not going into the voting booths to pull the giant R lever, you’re going in to NOT pull the giant D lever.

    that’s how sad you are. No momentum other than to shrink back from the Outside.

    Comment by God of Biscuits — November 6, 2006 @ 5:35 pm - November 6, 2006

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