Remembering 7/7/2005

24 Comments

1. [...] Original post by GayPatriot [...]

   Pingback by Politics: 2008 HQ » Blog Archive » Remembering 7/7/2005 — July 7, 2007 @ 9:08 am - July 7, 2007

2. You’re right gay patriot. This day is so sad. And it’s sad on so many levels. First, there’s the remembrance of what happened in London in 2005. Then, there’s the news of more American deaths in Iraq. Plus, all the Iraqis who are dying. Then, there’s the news that Lebanon is falling into chaos. And they’re trying to kill the Pakistani President, our friend. I’m sorry to have to say this, but we have so messed up the Middle East, or maybe just further messed up an already very messy region. Will somebody explain to me why we can’t just get the heck out of the region and leave them to evolve or devolve as they wish? I suppose I’m just tired, like many others, of watching us pour lives (3,600 American lives and gosh how many severely wounded/lives ruined?) and resources (it’s up to $610 billion this year) down what appears to be a hopeless, bottomless pit. Let’s stop this madness. But how?

   Comment by Samantha — July 7, 2007 @ 9:50 am - July 7, 2007

3. Because, Samantha, they have all the trappings of modern civilization that they need to kill an enormous quantity of us.

   They have the chemical know-how to make ricin and sarin, either of which could be used to kill thousands of people if one agent were to drop one vial in the correct ventilation shaft or subway system.

   They have the conventional know-how to build things like the London bombs, which, when fired in the right spot, could kill hundreds and maim thousands.

   And they have the knowledge, ability, will, and funding sources to build nuclear bombs and missiles — which are more than capable of reaching, at the least, Europe.

   Worse, there are a considerable number of them that have the will to use all three.

   Comment by North Dallas Thirty — July 7, 2007 @ 4:57 pm - July 7, 2007

4. You’re so right about what they’re capable of North Dallas Thirty. But shouldn’t we then be right in the middle of (or in the northeast of) Pakistan instead of leaving our loved ones parked in the middle of a civil war in Iraq? Where is bin Laden anyway? Is he still in Pakistan?

   I don’t know as much as you, it seems, but my gut feeling tells me that we have let ourselves become mired in an unwinnable, hopeless situation when we could at least be bombing al Queda where it exists and trains, in Pakistan.

   Comment by Samantha — July 7, 2007 @ 6:01 pm - July 7, 2007

5. And thank you for your reply North Dallas Thirty. Not many people around on this lovely weekend, and it’s good to have someone thinking about these things with you.

   Comment by Samantha — July 7, 2007 @ 6:04 pm - July 7, 2007

6. Not necessarily, Samantha.

   al-Qaeda’s primary goal, at least in my opinion, is to find another failed state that they and their allies can basically take over. They found that in the collapse of autocratic Afghanistan, which they were able to make their own with little or no effort.

   al-Qaeda’s entire strategy is similar to Hitler’s; no one ever went bankrupt betting on the ability of the Western powers to talk themselves out of fighting. So, like Hitler, they simply do as they wish and say as they wish, and leave the West to rationalize why it could “never happen”.

   They see a similar opportunity in Iraq; however, this time, they are being met with opposition — fierce opposition — both from the United States and also from other Muslims, who have finally realized that al-Qaeda is more than willing to kill them for deviation from doctrine.

   And that opposition needs to continue. Our concern for our loved ones is laudable, but we’re fighting an enemy who has no concept of that; these are people who teach their own children to kill themselves for the glory of the cause. They are willing to exploit our unwillingness to take casualties ourselves.

   Comment by North Dallas Thirty — July 7, 2007 @ 7:29 pm - July 7, 2007

7. So what do we need to do North Dallas Thirty? Just stay there until al Queda gives up? Gosh, how long will that take?

   Comment by Samantha — July 7, 2007 @ 8:13 pm - July 7, 2007

8. I suppose I’m just tired, like many others, of watching us pour lives (3,600 American lives and gosh how many severely wounded/lives ruined?) and resources (it’s up to $610 billion this year) down what appears to be a hopeless, bottomless pit.

   You’re so right. We need to tell the Iraqi people to go screw themselves and hand them over to al Qaeda. We should bring our troops home so they can be slaughtered by the thousands along with their families.

   And just think with all that money we’d save, we can subsidize muslim clothing for whomever is left so they can join the United Caliphate of America. I’m sure you would look absolutely stunning in your new black niqab, that is if you survive the attacks.

   Sounds good?

   Comment by ThatGayConservative — July 8, 2007 @ 12:40 am - July 8, 2007

9. BTW,

   I don’t know as much as you, it seems, but my gut feeling tells me that we have let ourselves become mired in an unwinnable, hopeless situation when we could at least be bombing al Queda where it exists and trains, in Pakistan.

   Why do you think we’re mired in an “unwinnable, hopeless situation”? Is that your gut telling you that or the gutless, team-killing fcuktards on the liberal left? Further, al Qaeda exists in Iraq. Should we ignore them and let them have their way?

   Comment by ThatGayConservative — July 8, 2007 @ 12:43 am - July 8, 2007

10. Please don’t yell at me, ThatGayConservative. I’m just trying to figure all this out, and not yell at everybody I come into contact with. To be frank with you, I just love America and want the best for my country and my fellow countrymen and women, and I want Americans to come together to figure out the way out of this mess. And it is a mess, ThatGayConservative. There’s no denying that anymore.

    Comment by Samantha — July 8, 2007 @ 7:51 am - July 8, 2007

11. Please don’t yell at me, ThatGayConservative.

    Oh believe me. I’m not yelling. I may emphasize a point, but I don’t yell. I’m just sayin’.

    There’s no denying that anymore.

    And I’m not denying it. However, I reject the notion (you and I are supposed to believe) that we suck so bad that we’re incapable of figuring it out. I reject any notion that it’s “unwinnable”. The question isn’t “what can we do to win”, the question is “do we have the balls to do what it takes”.

    What’s more, we’re quite aware that surrender, like the liberals demand, is the absolute worst option.

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — July 8, 2007 @ 4:38 pm - July 8, 2007

12. Since we’re in Iraq for the oil, why don’t we just kill everbody who lives there, (Muslims) and be done with it. We get the oil and they get paradise.

    Comment by george leroy — July 8, 2007 @ 8:35 pm - July 8, 2007

13. So what do we need to do North Dallas Thirty? Just stay there until al Queda gives up? Gosh, how long will that take?

    Oh, I don’t think al-Qaeda’s hardcore folks will ever give up.

    Which is why we need to do our best to make sure that the worst of their efforts are futile.

    al-Qaeda is at its root like every bully; they pick on and attack people based on what they think their weakness is. In our case, they think it’s our unwillingness to take casualties and our unwillingness to do things that might “damage our reputation” abroad.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — July 8, 2007 @ 8:53 pm - July 8, 2007

14. Indeed, al Qaeda will not give up in any of our lifetimes. Because they’ve been at it for 1400 years. Read your Muslim history. The only reason there are large numbers of Muslims in the world today, is because of past (bloody and vicious) Islamic expansionism and supremacism.

    What we need to do is, keep patiently nation-building and doing a classic counter-insurgency, in both Iraq and Afghanistan. For one thing, it engages al Qaeda’s resources or keeps them tied down. For another thing, eventually the locals will be sufficiently competent – and sufficiently threatened by al Qaeda – that they will take on al Qaeda for us. It’s already started, in fact.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — July 8, 2007 @ 9:04 pm - July 8, 2007

15. TGC: you make good points but there is a limit to what we can do.

    It’s not PC to say this but not all cultures are compatible with “western values”. Look at the UK terror-docs: trained in western medicine and placed in well-paying (I assume) jobs in the UK yet they conspire to murder hundreds.

    I don’t know what the answer is. But it seems like we (the west) lack the will to win this – to do whatever it takes. Hell’s bells – we won’t even name the enemy (Gordon Brown’s policy banning comments relating Islam and terrorism; Bush kissing CAIR’s butt at the Saudi-funded Islamic Center).

    Russia, China, the EU… are keen on screwing the US and our hands are tied (are we really going to do anything about Darfur and piss off China? risk war with Russia over Iran?).

    The Saudis pretend to be allies yet fund hostile “clerics”; the Iranians are at war with us and we do nothing (we won’t secure our own border so how can we secure the Iraqi border?). And on and on.

    Comment by Robert — July 8, 2007 @ 9:08 pm - July 8, 2007

16. Indeed, al Qaeda will not give up in any of our lifetimes. Because they’ve been at it for 1400 years. Read your Muslim history. The only reason there are large numbers of Muslims in the world today, is because of past (bloody and vicious) Islamic expansionism and supremacism.

    Exactly. Is it realistic to think we can change this? Or is mustering the will to protect ourselves the best we can hope for?

    Comment by Robert — July 8, 2007 @ 9:13 pm - July 8, 2007

17. It’s not PC to say this but not all cultures are compatible with “western values”.

    It’s NOT about “western values”. It’s about freedom. You have to get over this elitist notion that “not everybody wants freedom”.

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — July 9, 2007 @ 6:48 am - July 9, 2007

18. Thank you North Dallas Thirty for your thoughtful reply. You seem very brave and I like that. And I think you’re right that the al Queda types do depend on our being weak and not outlastting them. As my mom used to say, “they’re certainly some mean mothers out there!” So we need to be strong and stay as long as we need to, right? Wonder how long that will be? Are we talking another few years or another few decades? Does anyone have any idea of how long?

    And TGC, I’m sorry I said you were yelling. It certainly seemed like it. But, I accept that you were not. Though you do seem to use a lot of scatologicals in talking to people. You could do without those, you know. You also seem like a brave boy, and don’t need to use all that wicked language.

    Comment by Samantha — July 9, 2007 @ 4:33 pm - July 9, 2007

19. It’s NOT about “western values”. It’s about freedom. You have to get over this elitist notion that “not everybody wants freedom”.

    A superstitious people nursing 1400 year-old grudges who think the pinnacle of achivement is to send sons and daughters to kill Jews will not coexist in or with a free society.

    Freedom is tough; it’s a rarity in human history. For people to be free, they must first recognize limits. If I am free to be a Sunni or Shiite, Christian or Jew then I must first recognize that someone else is free to be aetheist.

    A free person must recognize and embrace the right of others to be free.

    The point I’m trying (poorly) to make is that certain cultural infrastructure has to be in place for freedom to work.

    I still have some hope for Iraq but I can’t explain why. Faith, I guess.

    Comment by Robert — July 9, 2007 @ 9:36 pm - July 9, 2007

20. Though you do seem to use a lot of scatologicals in talking to people. You could do without those, you know. You also seem like a brave boy, and don’t need to use all that wicked language.

    As my great uncle used to say “I’ll tell you one d*mn thing” (he used that a lot), I am what I am and have no interest in changing what I am to make other people happy.

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — July 10, 2007 @ 1:07 am - July 10, 2007

21. Further, Sam, I would add that I’ve been there, done that (trying to make other people happy), didn’t get a T-shirt and I’m a lot happier and sure of myself now that I don’t. If folks don’t like it, it’s not my problem.

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — July 10, 2007 @ 1:13 am - July 10, 2007

22. TGC, are you ex-Army? Or maybe still Army??? WHile you have a mouth like a sailor (grinning), I’m guessing Army.

    Comment by Samantha — July 10, 2007 @ 2:19 pm - July 10, 2007

23. I am what I am and have no interest in changing what I am to make other people happy.

    TGC: I don’t like the scat lang either… but, I DO like that (what you just said) about you. A lot.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — July 10, 2007 @ 3:28 pm - July 10, 2007

24. I’ve always said you can’t please everybody…but if you please yourself, then you are at least making one person happy!

    Regards,
    Peter H.

    Comment by Peter Hughes — July 10, 2007 @ 3:35 pm - July 10, 2007

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