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	<title>Comments on: Was Karl Rove Behind State Marriage Referenda in 2004?</title>
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	<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2007/08/17/was-karl-rove-behind-state-marriage-referenda-in-2004/</link>
	<description>The Internet home for American gay conservatives.</description>
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		<title>By: Eva Young</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2007/08/17/was-karl-rove-behind-state-marriage-referenda-in-2004/comment-page-2/#comment-33329</link>
		<dc:creator>Eva Young</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Aug 2007 01:58:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=1068#comment-33329</guid>
		<description>Powerline - yup, the winners of the Best Meltdown Award:

http://www.citypages.com/bestof2005/citygritty/bestof2623.asp</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Powerline &#8211; yup, the winners of the Best Meltdown Award:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.citypages.com/bestof2005/citygritty/bestof2623.asp" rel="nofollow">http://www.citypages.com/bestof2005/citygritty/bestof2623.asp</a></p>
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		<title>By: Eva Young</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2007/08/17/was-karl-rove-behind-state-marriage-referenda-in-2004/comment-page-2/#comment-33314</link>
		<dc:creator>Eva Young</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Aug 2007 01:57:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=1068#comment-33314</guid>
		<description>Bill Clinton suggested that Kerry support several state marriage initiatives.  Kerry did not do so, though he did support a constitutional amendment in Massachusettes.  Kerry&#039;s position on the issue made no sense.

That said, the effort to marginalize gays for political gain in this instance came from Republicans - and Karl Rove was a big part of this.  I&#039;ve emailed you a source who verified to me that Rove would encourage people to push this issue during the 2004 campaign.

There was clearly a split among the Bush people on this - Maria Cino and Andrew Card and Dick Cheney would have been counselling against this - and Cheney publicly stated he differed with the President on this issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill Clinton suggested that Kerry support several state marriage initiatives.  Kerry did not do so, though he did support a constitutional amendment in Massachusettes.  Kerry&#8217;s position on the issue made no sense.</p>
<p>That said, the effort to marginalize gays for political gain in this instance came from Republicans &#8211; and Karl Rove was a big part of this.  I&#8217;ve emailed you a source who verified to me that Rove would encourage people to push this issue during the 2004 campaign.</p>
<p>There was clearly a split among the Bush people on this &#8211; Maria Cino and Andrew Card and Dick Cheney would have been counselling against this &#8211; and Cheney publicly stated he differed with the President on this issue.</p>
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		<title>By: ThatGayConservative</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2007/08/17/was-karl-rove-behind-state-marriage-referenda-in-2004/comment-page-2/#comment-33296</link>
		<dc:creator>ThatGayConservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 14:19:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=1068#comment-33296</guid>
		<description>Also, how do gay libs support said candidates and also love dictators who murder gays?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, how do gay libs support said candidates and also love dictators who murder gays?</p>
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		<title>By: ThatGayConservative</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2007/08/17/was-karl-rove-behind-state-marriage-referenda-in-2004/comment-page-2/#comment-33288</link>
		<dc:creator>ThatGayConservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 12:16:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=1068#comment-33288</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Go back to bashing gay people and see who else links to you!&lt;/i&gt;

They don&#039;t need any help from us. They&#039;re doing just fine on their own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Go back to bashing gay people and see who else links to you!</i></p>
<p>They don&#8217;t need any help from us. They&#8217;re doing just fine on their own.</p>
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		<title>By: Will (American Elephant)</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2007/08/17/was-karl-rove-behind-state-marriage-referenda-in-2004/comment-page-2/#comment-33328</link>
		<dc:creator>Will (American Elephant)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 09:34:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=1068#comment-33328</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Will - I think you are being a tad naive.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Let&#039;s see... you vote for a party that doesnt support gay marriage, signed DOMA into law, instigated dont ask dont tell, and passed anti sodomy laws and tells you they support you.

The two presidential candidates have identical positions on gay marriage and you call one a homophobe and the other pro-gay, because he assures you he is....

You associate yourself with a party that &quot;tolerates&quot; you as long as you agree with them, and visciously attacks you based on your sexuality if you dont

and you think a position that is supported by an overwhelming number of Americans, including nearly a majority of Democrats, and think it takes an evil mastermind to get it on the ballot when people are trying to force gay marriage through the courts....

And you call &lt;i&gt;me&lt;/i&gt; naive? perhaps you ought to look the word up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Will &#8211; I think you are being a tad naive.</p></blockquote>
<p>Let&#8217;s see&#8230; you vote for a party that doesnt support gay marriage, signed DOMA into law, instigated dont ask dont tell, and passed anti sodomy laws and tells you they support you.</p>
<p>The two presidential candidates have identical positions on gay marriage and you call one a homophobe and the other pro-gay, because he assures you he is&#8230;.</p>
<p>You associate yourself with a party that &#8220;tolerates&#8221; you as long as you agree with them, and visciously attacks you based on your sexuality if you dont</p>
<p>and you think a position that is supported by an overwhelming number of Americans, including nearly a majority of Democrats, and think it takes an evil mastermind to get it on the ballot when people are trying to force gay marriage through the courts&#8230;.</p>
<p>And you call <i>me</i> naive? perhaps you ought to look the word up.</p>
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		<title>By: Will (American Elephant)</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2007/08/17/was-karl-rove-behind-state-marriage-referenda-in-2004/comment-page-2/#comment-33351</link>
		<dc:creator>Will (American Elephant)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 08:49:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=1068#comment-33351</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;YAY!! POWERLINE recognized you!! You. Are. Fabulous!! Go back to bashing gay people and see who else links to you!&lt;/blockquote&gt;we&#039;re not bashing gay people, we&#039;re bashing idiocy. That so much idiocy comes from people who also happen to be gay is unfortunate, but surely you wouldnt have us discriminate based on sexual orientation, would you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>YAY!! POWERLINE recognized you!! You. Are. Fabulous!! Go back to bashing gay people and see who else links to you!</p></blockquote>
<p>we&#8217;re not bashing gay people, we&#8217;re bashing idiocy. That so much idiocy comes from people who also happen to be gay is unfortunate, but surely you wouldnt have us discriminate based on sexual orientation, would you?</p>
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		<title>By: sean</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2007/08/17/was-karl-rove-behind-state-marriage-referenda-in-2004/comment-page-2/#comment-33303</link>
		<dc:creator>sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 03:46:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=1068#comment-33303</guid>
		<description>YAY!!  POWERLINE recognized you!!  You.  Are.  Fabulous!!  Go back to bashing gay people and see who else links to you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>YAY!!  POWERLINE recognized you!!  You.  Are.  Fabulous!!  Go back to bashing gay people and see who else links to you!</p>
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		<title>By: ThatGayConservative</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2007/08/17/was-karl-rove-behind-state-marriage-referenda-in-2004/comment-page-2/#comment-33295</link>
		<dc:creator>ThatGayConservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 03:07:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=1068#comment-33295</guid>
		<description>#56

So that means, using Gilda&#039;s illogic, that Rove was working for John F.You Kerry?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#56</p>
<p>So that means, using Gilda&#8217;s illogic, that Rove was working for John F.You Kerry?</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2007/08/17/was-karl-rove-behind-state-marriage-referenda-in-2004/comment-page-2/#comment-33327</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 02:17:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=1068#comment-33327</guid>
		<description>Thank You GPW for providing a good forum for this topic. I cannot answer your challenge...despite trying. It&#039;s scary sometimes seeing how out of 51 responses only number 21 was paying attention...and struggling to meet GPW&#039;s challenge at the same time.  Perhaps we should create &quot;Response&quot; and &quot;Rhetoric&quot; and &quot;Smart but Distracted&quot; categories for these debates?  It would save me some editing-on-the-fly effort...lol...This example would have one entry in the former column...number 21. The latter two would be packed with the remaining 51.

Hang in there GPW...at least one person was paying attention!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank You GPW for providing a good forum for this topic. I cannot answer your challenge&#8230;despite trying. It&#8217;s scary sometimes seeing how out of 51 responses only number 21 was paying attention&#8230;and struggling to meet GPW&#8217;s challenge at the same time.  Perhaps we should create &#8220;Response&#8221; and &#8220;Rhetoric&#8221; and &#8220;Smart but Distracted&#8221; categories for these debates?  It would save me some editing-on-the-fly effort&#8230;lol&#8230;This example would have one entry in the former column&#8230;number 21. The latter two would be packed with the remaining 51.</p>
<p>Hang in there GPW&#8230;at least one person was paying attention!!!</p>
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		<title>By: James Lindgren</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2007/08/17/was-karl-rove-behind-state-marriage-referenda-in-2004/comment-page-2/#comment-33350</link>
		<dc:creator>James Lindgren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 23:12:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=1068#comment-33350</guid>
		<description>You might also nail down that, at Bill Clinton&#039;s urging, John Kerry endorsed at least one, and perhap two, state anti-gay marriage amendments.  It might be in Newsweek&#039;s long Nov. 2004 election post mortem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You might also nail down that, at Bill Clinton&#8217;s urging, John Kerry endorsed at least one, and perhap two, state anti-gay marriage amendments.  It might be in Newsweek&#8217;s long Nov. 2004 election post mortem.</p>
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		<title>By: ThatGayConservative</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2007/08/17/was-karl-rove-behind-state-marriage-referenda-in-2004/comment-page-2/#comment-33307</link>
		<dc:creator>ThatGayConservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 21:19:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=1068#comment-33307</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know what&#039;s more surprising: Gil getting all wet by John Goodman or that there&#039;s an &quot;other&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know what&#8217;s more surprising: Gil getting all wet by John Goodman or that there&#8217;s an &#8220;other&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: gil</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2007/08/17/was-karl-rove-behind-state-marriage-referenda-in-2004/comment-page-2/#comment-33349</link>
		<dc:creator>gil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 17:56:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=1068#comment-33349</guid>
		<description>You might be right...
I asked my other about this and I have never seen eyebrows raised so high in my life...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You might be right&#8230;<br />
I asked my other about this and I have never seen eyebrows raised so high in my life&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: sonicfrog</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2007/08/17/was-karl-rove-behind-state-marriage-referenda-in-2004/comment-page-2/#comment-33302</link>
		<dc:creator>sonicfrog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 16:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=1068#comment-33302</guid>
		<description>Gil, you&#039;ve probably never been more alone in your life!!! :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gil, you&#8217;ve probably never been more alone in your life!!! <img src='http://www.gaypatriot.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: gil</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2007/08/17/was-karl-rove-behind-state-marriage-referenda-in-2004/comment-page-2/#comment-33352</link>
		<dc:creator>gil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 16:07:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=1068#comment-33352</guid>
		<description>On a side bar, does anyone else have that John Goodman problem?

Or am I alone on this one...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On a side bar, does anyone else have that John Goodman problem?</p>
<p>Or am I alone on this one&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: gil</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2007/08/17/was-karl-rove-behind-state-marriage-referenda-in-2004/comment-page-2/#comment-33348</link>
		<dc:creator>gil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 16:05:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=1068#comment-33348</guid>
		<description>Will - I think you are being a tad naive.
What do you think they talked about in those REGULAR conference calls?  (not a meet and greet)
Bible study? Maybe
John Goodman&#039;s magical ability to turn me on despite being a fat slob? Probably not
Strategies to keep Bush in the white house?  Undoubtedly yes.
Implementation of those strategies?  Certainly yes.

In my football playing days, if we had a strategy that worked, we yuked about it afterwards.
Just like Dobson and the rest of those dingbats bragging about how important gay marriage was to putting Bush back in the white house.
It was a strategy discussed and formulated in those conference calls, that did not have to work everywhere; it just had to bring out the fear of Sodom and Gomorrah</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will &#8211; I think you are being a tad naive.<br />
What do you think they talked about in those REGULAR conference calls?  (not a meet and greet)<br />
Bible study? Maybe<br />
John Goodman&#8217;s magical ability to turn me on despite being a fat slob? Probably not<br />
Strategies to keep Bush in the white house?  Undoubtedly yes.<br />
Implementation of those strategies?  Certainly yes.</p>
<p>In my football playing days, if we had a strategy that worked, we yuked about it afterwards.<br />
Just like Dobson and the rest of those dingbats bragging about how important gay marriage was to putting Bush back in the white house.<br />
It was a strategy discussed and formulated in those conference calls, that did not have to work everywhere; it just had to bring out the fear of Sodom and Gomorrah</p>
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		<title>By: Heliotrope</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2007/08/17/was-karl-rove-behind-state-marriage-referenda-in-2004/comment-page-1/#comment-33347</link>
		<dc:creator>Heliotrope</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 14:19:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=1068#comment-33347</guid>
		<description>#27 Chase writes: &quot;Look, the media statements are not untrue. Rove aimed to win an election by exploiting people’s prejudice. It’s not like it’s the first time Republicans have done that.&quot;

Do I understand that if there is an honest disagreement among citizens, gay or straight, as to what constitutes marriage that one side is &quot;right&quot; and the other side is &quot;prejudiced&quot;?

For the sake of common sense let us debate the core issue: What is the compelling reason for the state to regulate marriage? Methinks, most libs don&#039;t want to have that discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#27 Chase writes: &#8220;Look, the media statements are not untrue. Rove aimed to win an election by exploiting people’s prejudice. It’s not like it’s the first time Republicans have done that.&#8221;</p>
<p>Do I understand that if there is an honest disagreement among citizens, gay or straight, as to what constitutes marriage that one side is &#8220;right&#8221; and the other side is &#8220;prejudiced&#8221;?</p>
<p>For the sake of common sense let us debate the core issue: What is the compelling reason for the state to regulate marriage? Methinks, most libs don&#8217;t want to have that discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: V the K</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2007/08/17/was-karl-rove-behind-state-marriage-referenda-in-2004/comment-page-1/#comment-33294</link>
		<dc:creator>V the K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 13:54:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=1068#comment-33294</guid>
		<description>In case anyone wants to whack a dead equine, &lt;a href=&quot;http://pajamasmedia.com/2007/08/how_the_new_republic_got_sucke.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; How The New Republic (and gil) Got Suckered&lt;/a&gt;. The fullest rundown of the Scott &quot;Mindthoughts and Soulpatterns&quot; Beauchamp saga to date, including how the left wing turned (once again) to gay-baiting when their hoax was discovered.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In case anyone wants to whack a dead equine, <a href="http://pajamasmedia.com/2007/08/how_the_new_republic_got_sucke.php" rel="nofollow"> How The New Republic (and gil) Got Suckered</a>. The fullest rundown of the Scott &#8220;Mindthoughts and Soulpatterns&#8221; Beauchamp saga to date, including how the left wing turned (once again) to gay-baiting when their hoax was discovered.</p>
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		<title>By: Will (American Elephant)</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2007/08/17/was-karl-rove-behind-state-marriage-referenda-in-2004/comment-page-1/#comment-33301</link>
		<dc:creator>Will (American Elephant)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 07:06:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=1068#comment-33301</guid>
		<description>Gil, allow me to educate you... It is entirely possible for a politician to meet with a constituent or even a public leader with whom they share a common goal, without that politician being &lt;b&gt;responsible&lt;/b&gt; for said person having the goal or doing something about it.

For example, there have been many &lt;i&gt;pro&lt;/i&gt; gay marriage/domestic partnership laws on the ballots in recent elections,  there have been many anti-smoking initiatives on the ballots...and many Democrat politicians believe in these causes and probably met with people in the states who were also supportive of them, but that doesnt mean it was the Democrat politicians who got the initiatives on the ballots.

Do try to use your brain, God gave it to you for a reason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gil, allow me to educate you&#8230; It is entirely possible for a politician to meet with a constituent or even a public leader with whom they share a common goal, without that politician being <b>responsible</b> for said person having the goal or doing something about it.</p>
<p>For example, there have been many <i>pro</i> gay marriage/domestic partnership laws on the ballots in recent elections,  there have been many anti-smoking initiatives on the ballots&#8230;and many Democrat politicians believe in these causes and probably met with people in the states who were also supportive of them, but that doesnt mean it was the Democrat politicians who got the initiatives on the ballots.</p>
<p>Do try to use your brain, God gave it to you for a reason.</p>
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		<title>By: ThatGayConservative</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2007/08/17/was-karl-rove-behind-state-marriage-referenda-in-2004/comment-page-1/#comment-33306</link>
		<dc:creator>ThatGayConservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 03:00:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=1068#comment-33306</guid>
		<description>#45

Hmmmm.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#45</p>
<p>Hmmmm&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: gil</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2007/08/17/was-karl-rove-behind-state-marriage-referenda-in-2004/comment-page-1/#comment-33346</link>
		<dc:creator>gil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 01:51:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=1068#comment-33346</guid>
		<description>******Zinger alert**********
#42:
&quot;That from a clown suffering from chronic rectal-cranial inversion&quot;

Good one.  You really nailed it</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>******Zinger alert**********<br />
#42:<br />
&#8220;That from a clown suffering from chronic rectal-cranial inversion&#8221;</p>
<p>Good one.  You really nailed it</p>
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