GayPatriot

The Internet home for American gay conservatives.

The Gay Bar Thing

by

I have to admit. I just don’t get the bar thing.

When I was in San Diego for Breaking Stories, Breaking Waves, the LGBT Media Summit and National Convention, I did not join the better part of the participants (well, at least, the male participants) when they trekked up to Hillcrest, “the residential and commercial hub of San Diego’s gay and lesbian community.” I just didn’t think I would enjoy myself in a crowded and noisy bar.

Those who did go reported that they had had a great time. And were it not my wont to second guess myself, I might just have attributed that to different preferences. Given their experiences, I wondered if I would have had a good time had I joined them in Hillcrest.

I would learn not to second guess myself when, after the conference, a friend and I went to Palm Springs for a day. While there, we met some friends at a local watering hole. The environment didn’t seem conducive to conversation. Everyone was pressed closely together, a few people were dancing, but we practically had to shout to make ourselves understood to one another.

It did seem, however, that most of the people there were enjoying themselves. Myself, I would rather have found a less crowded and more quiet place where I could more easily communicate with my companions.

I used to enjoy going to The Abbey before it became so trendy. It was one of the few places in West Hollywood where you could sit down enjoy a cocktail (or a coffee and yummy pastry) and actually hear your friends speak.

I do wonder sometimes why so many gay guys seem to enjoy the bar scene. Yeah, I do appreciate the chance to check out the cute guys, knowing that at such establishments, it’s okay to look. It seems sometimes that with the music so loud and the difficulty in hearing your neighbor so great, that’s really all you can do.

To be sure, there have been times when I’ve had great times at bars. This seems to have happened when I have gone with friends on nights when the places haven’t been too crowded and the music was not so loud. There was space to move around and enough quiet to be able to listen.

All that said, I still don’t really get the bar thing. The places mostly seem to be crowded and loud. But, then again, people do enjoy such environments. I don’t know. I’m not one of them. If you have any insight on this, well, that’s the reason we have a comments section.

UPDATE: How Could I Forget?Just moments after posting this, I recalled that when I lived in DC, I used to love to go to JR’s for Monday Night Showtunes.

UP-UPDATE: In line with the previous update, when I realized I went to Showtunes night to spend time with guys who enjoyed one of the things I did, perhaps those who enjoy gay bars find something there that they have in common with the other folks there. Perhaps, it is just the occasion to be with other gay men. But, it seems (to me at least) that we have to something more in common than just being gay.

UP-UP-UPDATE: Of all life’s delicious ironies. A friend called me as I was about to prepare dinner and suggested we hang. When he joined me, he suggested we go into central West Hollywood for yogurt and to walk around. Perhaps because of this post, we ended up in the The Abbey. It wasn’t as crowded as it is on the weekends & the music wasn’t too loud, but on a couple of occasions, I did have to ask my friend to repeat himself so I could better understand what he was saying.

I did look around — and the people there, mostly those in groups of friends, seemed to be having a good time. Though I will say I preferred walking alone with my friend, the better to hear what he had to say and to feel more connected to another human being.

Comments

  1. I used to be a barfly at Pacific Street and Heaven (Houston) back about 10 years ago. I don’t dance and usually spent my time at the patio bar where it was quieter.

    I always preferred to have my beer at the end of the bar and watch the people go by and sometimes talk to folks. I don’t much care to go to the bars anymore (it’s been about 3 years). I would prefer drinking at home where I can be comfortable and don’t have to worry about a designated driver.

    Although, if I felt like it, I might go with a group.

  3. The appeal of a bar / club / circuit party to me is:

    1) Talking with friends
    2) Dancing with friends
    3) Guy watching
    4) If it’s a video bar: watching South Park, Project Runway or what have you.

    As you point out, (1) is tough under the circumstances… and my appetite for (2), (3) and (4) is satiable. So I really don’t go much, either.

    But I did go to a circuit party with a friend this past weekend. Had a good time. One thing I noticed, was how the guys seemed to be “mirroring” each other – down to tiny details of how they looked, acted, dressed (or undressed – shirts off), swigged water, etc. Just a theory here, but I’m starting to suspect that a big part of the appeal for others may be:

    5) Getting external validation / approval / mirroring from others, sometimes also known to its practitioners as “unity” or as “experiencing the community”.

  6. When I do go out to the bars, which isnt often, 90% of the time I’d rather be in an environment where I can talk to, and hear the people I’m with. Pool, darts, or karaoke–that sort of thing. But every once in a while its fun to get a buzz and dance with friends. I don’t think its a gay thing though, I think its a club v pub thing. Straight folk also have loud dance clubs where you cant hear a thing anyone says unless theyre shouting. Danceclubs are meatmarkets no matter what your orientation. Circuit parties are another tragic story all to themselves and I avoid them like the plague.

  10. By way of clarification… that movie about Bacon is not a biopic. Rather, it’s about a brutal sexual (can’t really call it “intimate”) relationship between a fast-aging, fast-fading Bacon and a young (but miserable) brick house of man-child/boy-toy. It’s an awful story – no redemption, no transcendence. Misanthropic and, you might argue, anti-gay. Unrelenting critics of the homosexual lifestyle will say, “Aha! That’s exactly what we’ve been warning our children about!!” To me, it’s an example of the worst, the (literal) dead-end that for some is the result of “the bar scene.”

  11. Fortunately, there are a couple of groups in the Boston area who hold regular events. Those, plus a monthly ‘tea dance’ in Ogunquit and a couple of regular haunts, and I go out more now than I did twenty years ago.

    I usually gravitate towards familiar faces and friends, but then they introduce me to other friends, and my circle grows.

    I even meet a conservative or two. 😉

  12. It seems that political parties aren’t our only difference… When I worked at JR’s in DC, I had to work showtunes night and I f***-ing hated it.

    I would’ve worn ear plugs if I didn’t have to communicate with people.

  13. When I was in college in NY, I painted the city red every weekend and frequently a lot of weeknights. Now, I only go out occasionally. Because of my location growing up, choice of schools, I did it all at such a young age (dance clubs, bars, raves, circuit parties) that it’s just not as exciting anymore.

    Alas, everything is more exciting when you’re a teenager.

    It is a bit sad.

  14. Most gay bars I’ve been in are caricatures of their own reputations and thus self-perpetuating. We all know the common complaints re. bars because we all have them, yet few alternatives exist because they don’t live up to what is expected of a (gay) bar and most don’t succeed. One of my biggest complaints re. gay bars is that they often attract the considerable number of addicted members of the gay community, whether sex, alcohol, drugs.

    I’ve found mixed bars (straight/gay) more fun with better (and usually slightly softer) music, better-adjusted folks and cuter guys.

  15. If I might be permitted to say so, Dan, this post is another example of those things many of us have in common despite our political differences. I absolutely “get” this post. I’ve never been a huge fan of bars, gay, straight, or otherwise. Maybe because I’ve never been much of a drinker? *shrugs* Both my partner and I much prefer a dinner at home (or out) with friends, and the conversation that comes with it, over screaming at one another in some smoky bar. Those personal connections are much more rewarding, IMHO.

  16. I second your emotion, Mike. I think this is one topic that red/purple/blue gays and lesbians can relate to.

    When I was single, I did Pacific Street in Houston. JR’s, Montrose Mining Company, the Ripcord and Heaven (now called South Beach after being destroyed by fire in the late 1990s – and no, it was not from arson by the Fred Phelps crowd but because of faulty wiring).

    I knew three things would happen when I went out to the clubs:

    1. I would come home reeking of tobacco from second-hand smoke.
    2. My ears would be ringing from the boom-boom-boom of awful gay dance music and people screaming at each other.
    3. I would have had to have parked at least a half-mile away or pay outrageous amounts for valet parking.

    Luckily, I met Hubby at our local gay gym five years ago and put those nights behind me. And frankly, I don’t miss them one bit. Sometimes we do go to Ripcord for video games and people-watching, but always before 10 pm and for just an hour or two.

    Regards,
    Peter H.

  17. One of the (numerous) nice things about NY and DC is that smoking is illegal in bars and nightclubs. Now one doesn’t have to smell like they took a roll in the tobacco fields after a night out. DC’s ban went into effect on January 1, 2007.

  18. I confess that I am the friend with whom Dan went last night to The Abbey in W. Hollywood. I’m definitely not the bar/club hopping person either, so it would shock my other friends to know that I suggested going to The Abbey. I wanted to go (although we stayed for a brief 5 minutes!) because it was out of the ordinary of what I normally like to do and also because I knew it would be relatively quiet there. Every now and then, it’s nice to do something to “shake it up a bit.” It makes life a little more interesting. Luckily, I made it out of the Abbey intact and unharmed! Of course, whether that was a good or bad thing remains up for debate. 🙂

  19. While gay bars (and gay gyms) are easy to deride or dismiss as irrelavent when there’s a gay-friendly bar on every-other corner; try living like I do were there are none within almost an hour’s drive-radius. If you’re single like I am, you wind up with no gay friends and your options to meet other guys is almost nil. (While I may live in the land of McGreevey, I refuse to follow his example for tryst-mates….ick!) Even though I’ve never been a dancer, and I’m not much of a drinker; I miss the subtle comfort of a nice, friendly gay bar where you don’t have to have your defences-up all the time. Sitting (and drinking) alone in a straight bar in Red America is amazingly isolating from everyone else there…like viewing the crowd through a plate glass window from the sidewalk.

  20. I agree with Mike and Peter, this is definitely an across the board topic.

    I will admit that I loved the bar/club scene in NY and DC (couldn’t get enough of the Roxy and Velvet) when I was in college – and for a few years after. I actually enjoyed the shouting, drinking, dancing and loud music. Usually, the music was not of my own personal taste, but you take the good with the bad. Overall, the experience seemed to be a great way to spend time with friends. We managed to enjoy each others company without having pithy conversation – though in most clubs I’ve been to, you can find relatively quiet spots for recovery and talking.

    Now that I’m older and living in Chicago, my club days are for the most part in the past. Surprisingly, the Chi has a dearth of quality gay bars (most are small, dirty, and twinky). I visit the few decent ones from time to time, but I just don’t get as excited about the experience as I used to. Plus, the unauthorized touching of the booty gets a little old after a while 🙂

  21. #21 – “[And] the unauthorized touching of the booty gets a little old after a while.”

    Well, HMess, look at it this way – at least they’re interested. I know several old trolls who are longing to have those days back again.

    You know you’re in trouble when instead of guys copping a feel, they turn away in disgust.

    Hey, it’s not as if a president or someone couldn’t grope someone while they were in office, right? 😉

    (Sorry, couldn’t resist.)

    Regards,
    Peter H.

  23. #22 – Peter, I guess it is nice to be noticed. But to paraphrase Monty Python, “What’s wrong with a kiss, boy, before you go stampeding towards the [booty]?”

    #23 – HH, I think that’s the shortest post I’ve ever seen from you. Were you confused, or just having a flashback? 😉

  25. Bars? No.

    Lounges? Absolutely.

    The Café Carlyle, Downstairs at the Upstairs, The Duplex and The Cotillion Room all served alcohol – along with cabaret, standup comedy, fledgling talent, has beens, high society, low brow lounge lizards, cozy conversation and enough sexual tension to power lower Manhattan for months.

    We’re social creatures: gossiping over cocktails is something that will never go out of fashion – thankfully.

    Vera insists on buying a round for the board…

    Cheers, darlings….

    Bruce, darling; I’ve replied to you email.

  26. This is definitely something that transcends the straight vs gay bar line. In the end there are tavern/pub people and there are club people and most people in the world are club people who have know understanding of why anyone would not be a club person. They figure that if you don’t come to a club than you are missing out on a great experience and will whine and plead with their non club friends to get them to come to the club and can not fathom that it is the last thing they would want to do. Club people think that pub people are unable to cut loose and pub people… I should stop before I reveal my bias by saying that pub people are just better conversationalists. Damn, I should have stopped one sentence before that.

  28. #17
    Ripcord? You are sadistic, aren’t you? 😉
    I remember one time the patio bartender at PS asked me to buy a leather rose with a barbed wire stem there at their leather shop. I’ve heard about the “entertainment” on the Ripcord patio after closing.

    I also remember the parking. Eight times out of 10, I would pay for the valet lot by Mining Company. Not much scares me, but walking down those dark streets south of Pacific gave me the creeps. Too many hedges, alleys and dark yards for somebody to hide in. Javi mostly refused to pay the price though. Many times we argued about it.

  31. #29 – TGC, things have actually improved on Pacific Street since you last saw it mumble years ago…the streets are better lit, there are more restaurants and bistros dotting the area so it is not just about bars/clubs, and increased police presence for our safety.

    Ripcord used to be a really dark S&M/leather-type establishment but it’s now gotten more preppy and younger. But you can still find the leather and Levi daddies there, and from what I’ve heard, the back patio is still smokin’ after 2 am closing…

    Regards,
    Peter H.

  32. #16:

    Both my partner and I much prefer a dinner at home (or out) with friends, and the conversation that comes with it, over screaming at one another in some smoky bar. Those personal connections are much more rewarding, IMHO.

    My sentiments exactly.

  35. But you can still find the leather and Levi daddies there,
    No thanks.

    Yeah TGCpartner told me there was a bistro or something behind South Beach or something? What I was referring to was the neighborhood south of Pacific or east of the bars. It was always pretty dark back in there even with the street lights.

  37. I’m a former Houstonian. I frequented JR’s, Heaven (Fridays), Rich’s (Thursdays, Saturdays and Sundays) and a few other places. It was fun if you were out with friends. I almost never go out now. Occasionally I will meet a friend for a drink at Therapy after work (I live in NYC now). I will say that it’s much mroe pleasant to be out when there’s no cigarette smoke but even with that bonus, by about 6:30 the music is so loud that conversation is impossible. I get that in a dance club, but in a bar it’s just annoying. Straight bars don’t do this. Why do gay club managers assume none of us want to talk to people that we either came with or met there?

  38. I hate gin. I drank a bottle of gin in a suicide attempt at age 17 after a family member sent me an e-mail revealing they’d discovered I was gay.

    Just the smell of gin makes me sick to my stomach.

  39. #24 You nailed it — flashback! You reminded me of a night I had at the lamentably shuttered Kid Mohair in Seattle’s Pike corridor.

    #25 Uh, oh… Did you happen to be at Seattle’s Kid Mohair on Feb. 14, 1992? You wouldn’t happen to be small and …

    #39 Chase, we’re glad you’re here. Ask Dan for my e-mail if you ever want to chat.

  40. #37 – We allow each other to go where the other chooses because we trust each other. However, I have no desire to go to the Pacific Street bars for the reasons I stated above, and Hubby doesn’t drink at all.

    If we do go out to a bar together, it is just for meeting people there ahead of time or playing video games – both of which we haven’t done in months.

    Regards,
    Peter H.

  41. #36 – “Yeah TGCpartner told me there was a bistro or something behind South Beach or something?”

    That would be Hollywood Restaurant, with some of the best Chinese/Vietnamese food in the Montrose district. Also, Baba Yega on Grant Street is still alive and well.

    Walk a few blocks south of Pacific and you’ll hit Katz’s Deli on Westheimer. Open 24 hours and (this is for you, Vera) prior to 2am serves the biggest “fishbowl” martinis you’ve ever seen.

    If anyone wants a tour of Houston’s hotspots some weekend, Dan has my e-mail address.

    Regards,
    Peter H.

  42. That would be Hollywood Restaurant, with some of the best Chinese/Vietnamese food in the Montrose district. Also, Baba Yega on Grant Street is still alive and well.

    I remember there was a c-store at Montrose and Hyde Park Blvd.(?) called Hollywood. There was always a Moses looking homeless guy there. There was a Tex-Mex & paneria joint down the street from there. Can’t remember the name, but Javi and I used to go there from time to time.

    Also, I used to frequent Charley’s on Westheimer for a burger after the bars closed. I either went there or Chapultapec on Richmond.

  43. #43 – TGC, the convenience store “Hollywood” is still there and just down the street from its sister properties, Hollywood Restaurant and Hollywood Videos. The people that own the c-store also own the other places and are making money hand-over-fist.

    Charlie’s is still there, and so is Chapultepec. Both, however, have kind of gone to pot. Hollywood Restaurant is open until 4 am weekend nights so people usually go there for a bite after the clubs close. Katz’s “never Kloses,” as their slogan goes.

    The Mexican place you remember is La Mexicana (Fairview @ Montrose). It’s good but frankly I’ve had better at Cafe Adobe. Plus, Tex-Mex restaurants in Houston are a dime a dozen. The good ones last – the bad ones close.

    Regards,
    Peter H.

  44. Due to my stunted gay growth in my 20s, I didn’t frequent many gay bars then. It wasn’t until my mid 30s that my desire to go to gay bars kicked in, and I would go by myself most of the time. Sometimes, I would converse with the bartenders or others, or not. And there were certainly people with delusions of godhood and plenty of examples of overdone drama personified. My most interesting encounter was when a guy approached me and we chatted, and found out that he was on a sabbatical, and there is one other profession besides professor that has sabbaticals.

    But many of the things I found at gay bars happen at straight bars, just different dynamics and approaches. Most people seem to like the bars and clubs that are overcrowded so that taking five steps is a journey comparable to Homer’s Odyssey. And loud, obnoxious music that you cannot have a normal conversation with your friend, or try to pick up that special for one-night person. Bathroom conversations at straight bars can be interesting too. Just no toe tapping, and you probably wouldn’t want to pick up any pieces of paper that fall on the disgusting floors.

    Now that I got the gay bar thing mostly out of my system, I don’t frequent them as much as I used to. But my partner and I go once or twice a month for a couple of hours. We go early when it’s not crowded, and we can request 80s music and shoot a couple of games of pool. Also like to watch the Yankees or other sports, but that doesn’t happen too often. And sometimes we meet some decent people, and able to meet up outside the bar.

    New Jersey, unfortunately, has about as many gay bars in the whole state as one block in the Village. But we did find one that’s pretty nice when not crowded. Sometimes we head to the Village, but we also have a favorite straight bar in New York that we frequent.

  45. Yeah La Mexicana. We went there a few times before decending on the bars. I don’t remember it being great, but it was adequate. Same with Chapultapec.

    There was a great place up on Holzworth in Spring called Cinco De Mayo. They had good food, but it burned down a few years ago. Javi and I went there probably a dozen times because it was good and right around the corner from where I lived.

    I don’t know about you, but I judge a Tex-Mex joint by it’s fajitas. Javi judges it by their tortillas and chicken.

    On a side note, I asked Dan to put you in touch with me via email, but I suspect he’s not reading his email this weekend.