Not that I am eager to vote GOP in 2008, except for the pleasure of voting against Hillary, but it appears that the Virginia GOP continues to be even stupider than the national party. Yes, Virginia party elites keep proving that what appears to be impossible in being worse than the national party is not only probable but the way to go in the Commonwealth.
Republican leaders decided Saturday to hold a convention to choose their nominee in next year’s U.S. Senate race, delivering a setback to moderate Rep. Thomas M. Davis III and bolstering the chances of conservative former governor James S. Gilmore III.
The vote by the Republican State Central Committee means about 10,000 party activists will gather in June to decide who will face former governor Mark R. Warner (D) in the general election. Conventions that are limited to party activists generally favor conservative candidates, whereas moderates stand a better chance in open primaries that draw independents. (Washington Post)
I voted for Gilmore when he ran for governor and boy was he a monumental disappointment and a lousy governor. I also voted more than once for Tom Davis when he was my Congressman. For the most part I liked the man as my representative. Now if the Lynchburg-Virginia Beach cabal in our jolly lil’ Commonwealth decides to do a run-around the people and put their man Gilmore up against Mark Warner, I will be forced to vote Democrat for Senate. That is a rather unpleasant and distasteful thought but Warner wasn’t a bad governor and he certainly was better than that tool Gilmore. So go ahead oh out-of-touch morons, make Virginia move from Red to leaning Blue with the DNC controlling the governor’s mansion along with both Senate seats. Be stupid all you wish since that seems to be about all you are capable of.
(h/t The Malcontent)
— John (Average Gay Joe)
I’m a fellow Virginian and I doubt we’ll go what I call “NYC blue” – more like blue dog Dem.
And what’s with this obsession with R’s vs. D’s anyway? This isn’t baseball or football. We’re talking about what’s best for Virginia. I don’t care if the best is a Rep, Dem, Indie or Green. Just help keep the state accounts balanced and protect civil liberties.
And I’m a Dem who voted Republican last year.
Oh I agree, Rachel. Dems frequently mistake Southern Dems for Northern ones. Different critters for the most part with obvious exceptions. No, this isn’t about a Dem vs. Repub thing but poor choices in candidates. Gilmore was terrible for the Commonwealth and I for one will not vote for him. I especially will not vote for him if he is the annointed one thanks to the Lynchburg-Virginia Beach bunch. Warner wasn’t perfect but he was a might sight better than Gilmore. Now Davis is a different story. I’ll vote for him over Warner since he was a good Congressman, but not Gilmore.
I agree, John. Warner was a pretty good governor while Gilmore was a disaster. If that’s the choice we have, my vote is with Warner. He is a moderate who will make a decent senator.
Didn’t Warner campaign heavily against raising taxes and then did so as soon as his ass hit the chair? You know, sorta like Corzine.
It’s not that simple TGC. Transportation is Issue #1 in Northern Virginia where I live and under certain circumstances we are willing to pay more taxes to get it. The problem with Richmond of course has been ensuring any new revenue will actually go towards transportation instead of into the General Fund. I don’t recall Warner promising not to raise taxes, in fact I believe he hinted at it in some cases like transportation. During his time as governor he lowered income taxes for some and raised the ‘sin’ taxes. He also left us a balanced budget. Republicans in this state have absolutely no room to speak as they themselves split with many of the leadership having fought to raise taxes, including income taxes, and even were part of the recent BS with the speeding law. The state GOP is a joke here with cronies from the Lynchburg-Virginia Beach cabal caring more about pet social issues than anything else and of course the old boyz network of elitists. No, I’ll take Warner over Gilmore anyday but Davis will get my vote if he enters the race. I remember Tom quite well and he was a good Congressman. If the GOP wants my vote they have to earn it, not rely upon it simply because an “R” lies after the name of the latest stooge they put up.
I can not honestly disagree with John, but we “rural” Virginians pay a heavy price for Tidewater and Northern Virginia metropolitan problems. I have watched Virginia become a state with a Northern Virginia/Tidewater urban problem for 40+ years. The Tidewater (Virginia Beach, Norfolk, etc. area) problems have been treated with heavy doses of federal money thanks to the Navy and John Warner. Northern Virginia, on the other hand is an out of control bedroom community for the Beltway crowd. It is in great need of adequate transportation infrastructure. But it is no different than so many urban areas in the Boston-Washington corridor where one flat tire can tie up an interstate for hours.
I carry no brief for Gilmore or (Mark) Warner. Both were fairly invisible in their roles as governor. Gilmore’s actions to lessen the property tax burden on automobiles was very popular in the rural areas. Warner was sage enough to not mess with reinstating the taxes.
Political parties do matter greatly in the US Senate, particularly since the Democrats have extended the 60 vote majority to confirming judicial appointments. Because of the power politics being forced daily in the US Senate, I can not ignore the party affiliation of who I vote to the US Senate. As to whether Gilmore or Davis is the superior candidate, I have no clear preference. The politics of the nominating process, however, is politics as usual. It appears that Gilmore is better organized than Davis.
Am I missing something? Sorry if I’m misreading your post, but as written, I completely disagree.
I always take a macro view when voting for members of Congress, despite or in spite of local issues. A majority means committee chairmanships (especially the Senate Judiciary Committee) and a supportive role for a hopefully Republican President rather than an antagonistic one or, if necessary, an antagonistic one for a Democratic President.
So go ahead oh out-of-touch morons, make Virginia move from Red to leaning Blue with the DNC controlling the governor’s mansion along with both Senate seats.
Voting for a Democrat is, considering what is at stake at the federal level, rather moronic in accomplishing to “…make Virginia move from Red to leaning Blue…” What’s more, I see nothing inherently unfair or ‘stupid’ in holding a convention to choose a nominee when there are two qualified candidates from different positions on the Republican spectrum. More motivated delegates aren’t necessarily less intelligent nor are those organizing the forum to exercise their motivation. Even if the convention is being pursued by those standing to gain after the votes are tallied, complaining about the motivation and potential primary victory of an opponent is rather moronic, imho, particularly when the proposed convention is not, I assume, systemically unfair, i.e. a “…run-around the people…” as you write.
If you feel that strongly about Davis’ candidacy, get motivated.
Most state GOP organizations lose whenever they turn to closed conventions to pick nominees rather than test them out at the ballot box. The ballot box and open primaries are better sorters.
I know, I know; there ARE those pesky times in open primaries when the opposing party -sans a contest- can use their votes to raise havoc on the other side by voting for the less-desirable opposing candidate… but that openness in a ballot primary is well worth it.
I hope the decision by the VA State Party officials will encourage you and others, AGJ, to get off your duff and join with Congressman Davis supporters and fight the likely coronation of Gilmore. Rather than waiting for the opportunity to vote in the ballot booth at the General, you’ll need to roll up your sleeves, get your hands dirty and join those Davis4Senate supporters working to actually make VA better… complaining is always easier for those who don’t have to sacrafice.
Rather than bitch and demean GOP leaders, get to work and join in changing the status quo. It’s YOUR state, no? And since you know what’s happening behind the scenes, you don’t have the luxury now of saying you couldn’t do anything to avoid Gilmore’s selection… get going.
Considering how much money we pour into Richmond’s coffers I’d say we’re entitled to enough money for transportation to keep the good times a-rollin’ for the Commonwealth.
Yes, something he promised to eliminate and failed to do. I ‘fondly’ remember him every year I mail my check in.
It may seem passe in these days of partisan struggles, but so do local politics as well as the person who is put forth as the standard bearer. Gilmore will not get my vote. Davis will.
Then perhaps the Virginia GOP should take all of this into consideration because Gilmore has as much of a chance of getting my vote as Hillary does. They were stupid with North and Kilgore so I feel safe in predicting they’ll stay the course to defeat in 08.
Yes, voting for John Warner certainly ‘helped’ given the GOP’s record on spending and immigration.
It is when a faction puts its own man up that cannot win the general election. Gilmore is toast and will not beat Warner nor will I cast my vote to reward the Lynchburg-Virginia Beach machine.
I fully intended to in the primary, but the ‘wisdom’ of the Virginia GOP seems to be to nix that process and start planning the coronation of Gilmore instead. I obviously lean heavily toward the GOP but am not a member of the Republican Party nor do I have a desire to be so there’s not much I can do without a primary to vote in. They are certainly free to do as they please but so am I when I step into that voting booth.
I must have missed those four years when Mark Warner was a great governor. We got a billion dollar tax increase after he strong-armed our weak-on-taxes Republicans in the state legislature by claiming that the budget was going to be short a billion and our bond rating was going to tank. Instead of cutting any spending, we got a billion-dollar tax hike and within six weeks an “accounting error” was discovered which showed that the state was actually going to run a multimillion-dollar surplus. This after Warner had run on a platform of not raising taxes! Here we are just a few more years down the road and Gov. Kaine played the same game.
So what do we have to show after four years with Mark Warner at the helm — a huge tax hike and no end of spending increases but oddly no help for our traffic problems here in Northern Virginia. I thank Jim Gilmore every tax season when my car tax arrives and 70% of it has been lopped off because of his efforts to repeal it. I would prefer Davis in the Senate race but I would vote for almost anyone other than Mark Warner.
One must also wonder which Mark Warner will show up for the Senate race. Will it be the garden variety liberal who ran against John Warner or the born-again Blue Dog, gun-loving, no-new taxes, NASCAR fan who ran for governor.
“I obviously lean heavily toward the GOP…”
Yeah, you’ve convinced me.
John: There is no single Virginia GOP. Like many states, Virginia has a vital struggle between its rural areas and its urban areas. The GOP in the state must be attentive to both. I spend much time inside the Beltway and I understand and feel the problems of Northern Virginia acutely. They are real, nasty and growing exponentially. I am a regular fixture in the Washington “scene” and getting to points in and around Washington is no picnic.
On the other hand, just today, we had a young woman flown into our hospital from Grundy, Virginia who had chewed seven of her fingers to the bone. She is suffering from a condition that results from a combination of in-breeding and self polluted drinking water. We can not “fix” her, but we can help shield her from the conditions that stimulate her self-mutilation.
I will not paint Virginia as a backward hill-billy state, but many of the problems in the Old Dominion are centered around the rural “poor” and the urban sophisticates who are pushing out into areas with low tax rates where they build large homes and demand urban services. Soon enough, the rural “poor” are taxed out of their small homes and trailers and sent packing to more remote corners.
If Northern Virginia had been confined to a limited space and forced to build up toward the sky rather than out into the hinterlands, perhaps its citizens would be more connected with the rest of the state.
I live well and shop at the boutique markets. But my neighbors are mighty glad that Wal-Mart and FoodLion are there to fill their needs. I make it a point to go to the Dollar Store on a weekly basis. I find many of our hospital patients there stretching their “disposable income” as far as possible.
Northern Virginia has a critical transportation problem. I am stuck in it often. But so does Paris, where I spent the last three weeks. So does every other major urban area I know. I can report on traffic problems from coast to coast and country to country. In England, they call the M-1 a moving parking lot.
You pay taxes in Northern Virginia to help keep our urban poor out of prison in Buckingham County. We in Albemarle County pay taxes to help straighten out the Mixing Bowl mess in Springfield and to keep the D.C. gangs from killing enemies in the Lorton lock-ups. Personally, I would love a by-pass around all of D.C. so I could get to Baltimore and Philly with less frustration. But to do that, little people and big people would have to lose their homes.
Your man Davis is conditioned to speak to you and your particular problems. If he were a Senator, could he really absorb the problems of Southwest Virginia or the joblessness in Goochland County or the black poverty in southern counties which were worn out by tobacco production?
People are people in the medical business. Our rural poor are no different from the rural poor across the nation. If the land is productive, the poor survive at a sustainable level. If there is agricultural failure, the poor suffer mightily.
When government is forced to choose between traffic jams and the conditions of survival, the equation is not that difficult.
My mentor was an old “doc” who had attended the John Kennedy family in Middleburg. I asked what dealing the rich and famous was like. He told me that “one anus looked pretty much like another.”
Urban areas have big problems. But the weight of population and the number of cars on an inadequate road do not necessarily outweigh the needs of individuals stuck in the grinding inequities of rural poverty.
What, did my effusive ‘love’ for Hillary just boil over and make it obvious? 😉 Just cause the Stupid Party can’t seem to find it’s way back to Reagan conservatism doesn’t make the bad guy.
John writes: “I obviously lean heavily toward the GOP but am not a member of the Republican Party nor do I have a desire to be so there’s not much I can do without a primary to vote in.”
Ummm, seems to me there’s a whole LOT you can do, AGJ… aside from NOT voting in the primary. How about contacting the Davis4Senate folks and working to advance a candidate more electable from your vantage point? How about seeing if the Davis folks are trying to counteract the VA State GOP people? How about taking the role of advocate beyond the narrow confines of this blog’s readership and pressing the issue of No Primary/Gilmore Coronation amongst VA blogs? How about 10,000 other things you can do rather than just bitch about the VA State GOP officials going the route of a convention?
You don’t have to be a GOPer do to any of those things and lots and lots of other things to advocate in favor of Davis4Senate.
http://virginiavirtucon.wordpress.com/2007/09/26/tom-davis-launches-senate-exploratory-cmte/
Or maybe check out TomDavis.org to work out some connections, eh?
The key is, quit the bitching and get off your duff and do something useful and constructive. It’s the same advice I give repeatedly to those Looney-tarians who, like poor RossPerot wannabes, would rather bitch about the ills of the GOP rather than take up arms and work for change.
Report back on your efforts –or you should self-revoke your right to complain about who the Va GOPers pick as their nominee.
Davis has formed an “exploratory committee” but is delaying announcement until November (could WaPo find a more horrible pic of him?). He has indeed taken quite a low profile since I didn’t even know he was interested in the job until yesterday when I saw this WaPo article linked in my post above. He has no website for a Senate campaign, his Congressional campaign site hasn’t been really updated since last year’s race and the state GOP has made their decision even before the first candidate has officially announced: a convention will be held, not a primary. That’s their choice and if they pick Gilmore they will once again go down in defeat at the polls.
Well they did finish the mixing bowl and the new Woodrow Wilson Bridge. But there is a desperate need for more public transportation. Unfortunately, subway lines are very expensive and the WMATA is too stubborn to follow the lead of NYC and institute a flat rate fare that would increase ridership and profits.
As for the GOP convention, what a dumb idea. Tom Davis would be a stronger opponent for Warner because he has a reputation of being an advocate for federal workers. However, the convention will almost assuredly pick Gilmore and he will almost assuredly lose in the general.
Chase, I have no illusions about the power of the Northern Virginia voting bloc. But I detect a bit of incomprehension concerning how many people and how much political clout lies outside of Northern Virginia.
Doubtlessly, Mark Warner will pick up a lot of votes focused on the urban problems of Northern Virginia from across party lines. But he will have to run state-wide. His familiarity with the state is no greater than is Gilmore’s. His ability to massage the rest of the state is probably no real contest for Gilmore’s long, successful record with statewide politics.
I doubt that the Senate election will come down to Northern Virginia v. The Remaining State, but if it does, it will be a squeeker.
Helio, Warner won election as did his annointed successor by winning more than just Northern Virginia. He was a popular governor while Gilmore was not. If the GOP is so stupid to pick Gilmore, which they unfortunately are, he will lost handily to Warner.
John, you are right about Warner and Kaine winning election outside of garnering the Northern Virginia vote. The GOP managed to choose weak candidates and run lack-luster campaigns.
Gilmore is nowhere near as exciting as watching paint dry. But Warner failed to make much of a mark on “the rest of the state.” In fact, Warner and Kaine are closer to “blue-dog democrats” than they are to being moderately liberal.
I doubt that Warner will win handily. In most of the state, a match-up between Warner and Gilmore will be a battle of the “weak” and the race will be decided by the turnout of the party faithful.
The one edge Warner has is that his name will confuse some voters who think they are voting for John Warner.
Wanna lay odds on Gilmore doing the same? 😉
Agreed which is becoming quite appealing in the Commonwealth given the incompetence of the Repubs. Southern Dems are not exactly like Yankee ones.
Well InTrade doesn’t have the scores yet on this race but I’ll bet Warner does. The GOP is forgetting that their own base is ticked off at them, let alone that the Indies and Reagan Dems aren’t on speaking terms with them anymore.
Yeah I’ve wondered about that myself.
Except for Joe Lieberman, I can´t justify voting for any Democrat. I agree with HardHobbit, you have to consider what is at stake on the federal level, especially if we get to keep the White House. During the contest for the senate between Bruce Herschensohn and Barbara Boxer, I held my nose when I voted for Bruce. Despite being a conservative I knew on gay issues he was a zero. But then I thought of the alternative. Barbara was the ¨Queen of the Overdrafts¨ in the congressional bank. The only thing I liked about Lincoln Chafee was the R after his name and the power it gave the President. I hated to see Senator Jeffords change his affiliation, it drove home to me the importance of the R. Years ago I had thought that Jacob Javitz had no business being a Republican. In the nascent days of the Log Cabin Club in Los Angeles, one of my political mentors, the late Al Vaber, said Ï prefer to have a Republican who votes with us 30 percent of the time than a Democrat who votes with us zero percent of the time.¨¨
The irony here is that centrist though he is, Mark Warner is actually more conservative than Lieberman. Now if he becomes soft on defense that changes things rapidly for me given that this is my #1 issue, but such doesn’t appear to be the case at the moment.
John, you appear inclined to vote for Mark Warner over Jim Gilmore. If you did vote for Mark Warner, political party balance in the Senate would not be a deciding factor for you. I can not see how adding another (D) to the Majority/Minority census in the Senate could further strengthened the defense needs of the nation.
#23 Roberto understands the issue perfectly.
Although I tend to agree that Chafee is/was too liberal, I would gladly vote for him for his ‘R’ and for his considerable personal charm and civility. Chafee’s Senate presence as part of a majority would virtually guarantee much more right-leaning Senate and committee leadership elected from other states.
Lieberman is much, much too liberal. (Check his entire record.) I would’ve voted for Schlesinger — for his ‘R’, his votes in the Senate, for his corruption, warts, and all. I don’t buy this garbage of ‘punishing’ a state GOP in an effort to field better candidates, resulting in national suffering. I’d vote for Joe McCarthy before I would vote for a Democrat. The Supreme Court is simply too important.
As more Republicans announce their retilrement in both houses, the Dems are licking their chops at the possibility of complete control, the White House and both chambers. Remember the last time they had complete control, 1993 & 94. That´s when Bill Clinton pushed through his tax increase, a broken campaign promise. A similar promise cost George Bush I his job. If the first two Clinton years doesn´t scare you, how about 1977 to 80, the Carter years. At that time I was looking at houses in L.A. The agent wanted me to commit to a contract saying, ¨interest rates are down to 12%. You´ll never see it this low again!¨
Is there a Newt Gingrich on the horizon?
HH writes: “Although I tend to agree that Chafee is/was too liberal, I would gladly vote for him for his ‘R’ and for his considerable personal charm and civility. Chafee’s Senate presence as part of a majority would virtually guarantee much more right-leaning Senate and committee leadership elected from other states. ”
Ding, ding, ding; give HH a prize in sensing why the ultraRight’s effort to throw Chafee and others under the bus to purge the Senate of “progressives” and “teach” the GOP a lesson –while probably sitting out the elections– is stupid, stupid politics with a capital (or is it Capitol when speaking of federal politics) “S”.
What’s the cliche? Cutting off the nose to spite the face? Well, we can all thank those conservatives who gave us Denny Hastert, Tom Delay and the spend-like-drunken-sailors CONSERVATIVE 109th, 108th, 107th et al Congress.
I know, I know. It isn’t the conservatives who did this to the GOP… it was the GOP who did it; LOL.
I’d take Chafee and lots of “pinko” GOPers to eliminate the new leaders like Pelosi, Conyers, Reid, Leahy, Levin and Kennedy.
Vote for a Democrat for the US Senate? That’s crazy! It would be better not to vote at all.
The millions the incompetent Liz Dole spent to prop up the RINO Obama-endorser Chaffee could have been put to much better use defending Jim Talent and what’s-his-name-in-Montana, who lost their races far more narrowly than Chaffee lost his.
“I’d take Chafee and lots of “pinko” GOPers to eliminate the new leaders like Pelosi, Conyers, Reid, Leahy, Levin and Kennedy.”
Exactly.
“Vote for a Democrat for the US Senate? That’s crazy! It would be better not to vote at all.”
Exactly.
It’s been theorized that most gay men have higher testosterone levels than their straight counterparts due to both gender and birth order. Perhaps the evidence is in comments such as these. Gentlemen, I’m proud of your balls.
Eggs-actly.
Fair enough. Yet I cannot see how voting for a lousy governor like Gilmore and a tool of the extreme Right is any better. Nope, if Davis is the nominee he’ll have my vote over Warner — but not Gilmore.