61. NDT: Oddly enough, that wasn’t the case with Germany, Italy, Japan, or any of the other countries we invaded and occupied in World War II.

I don’t think that many students of history would agree with your analogy.

That logic depends on the Democrat and now Ron Paul-co-opted belief that people actually LIKE living under a brutal dictator such as Saddam, and are upset when said dictator is removed.

Speaking only for Ron Paul (if I may) and his Mindless Zombie Minions Who Have Never Read a Book and Don’t Actually Know Anything About the REAL WORLD Because They Disagree With Your Point: That’s a pretty lame attempt at a straw man, don’t you think? So

As has been said here by others, nine-tenths of the problems in Iraq come from the fact that two groups — al-Qaeda and Iran — have been trying, often in conjunction with each other, to sow as much discord as they possibly can.

Again, I don’t think that’s really being argued (and certainly not by me).

Since the U.S. supported Saddam specifically to oppose Iran in the first place , it doesn’t really come as a surprise that, once he was removed, the problem remains.

Oddly enough, that wasn’t the case with Germany, Italy, Japan, or any of the other countries we invaded and occupied in World War II.

That logic depends on the Democrat and now Ron Paul-co-opted belief that people actually LIKE living under a brutal dictator such as Saddam, and are upset when said dictator is removed.

As has been said here by others, nine-tenths of the problems in Iraq come from the fact that two groups — al-Qaeda and Iran — have been trying, often in conjunction with each other, to sow as much discord as they possibly can.

To a certain extent, I agree with you. However, a couple of things: A) What is “a force” in Republican politics these days? B) I think the fluidity of the Republican polls indicate that the majority of “most likely to votes” are grasping for some substance within the party, and not finding it (or, like an eel, they have there hands on it, but the slime, the slime, so slippery).

I really think this is what happened: The protoneocons saw the success that Reagan had in marshalling conservative democrats, and saw that as a way to expand the party’s support base. But instead of drawing those voters in by strength of character and principled stands (even if those principles were somewhat abused at the end), they basically ended up becoming Democrat Lites, with a dose of “Christian morals” and some warhawking thrown in.

I don’t mean to oversimplify things. I think there is a common perception among Ron Paul supporters that the Republican mainstream just isn’t very Rebublican anymore, which is why there are so many formerly apathetic people involved, who in years past would have been inspired by the traditional Republican platform of “more liberty, less government, more prosperity through free markets, more security through a strong-but-not-aggressive military.”

It’s the party’s failure to convince these “floaters” of it’s commitment to its own principles that is to blame, not some explosion of libertarian consciousness among independent voters.

No, you’re confusing me with my twin brother, kowb0y. You yourself are misinformed if you think that “conservative” means “brainwashed.” I thought that was a “big-D liberal” characteristic?

13. ILC: “What I had said, was correct. Even Paul’s defenders can’t deny he’s a porker, or defend him on the facts.”

Well, I’m only speaking for myself, not the rest of the Borg (my tinfoil hat is out for repair, breaking my communication stream). I would wager, though, if you summed up his “pork” over his term in office, it adds up to an awful lot less than anyone else’s.

“‘Every Republican candidate, except Ron Paul, will fight Al Qaeda and the Global War [with] Islamic Jihad…’
[me] [Paul is] a conspiracy-mongering nut on foreign policy”

Would like to give an in-depth response to this, but don’t have time right now (must…work…to feed…the state). See here if you want a dialog on the subject.

Just a couple of thoughts:

A) Security is composed of many components (economic, military (offensive), military (defensive), political, diplomatic, social, technological). You can’t have security by pursuing one of them to the detriment of the others indefinitely.

B) You will never exterminate terrorists when doing so causes many times that number of people to be converted to terrorism. We are not talking about surgical strikes or black ops here, we are talking about invading, subjugating, and occupying entire countries, leaving hundreds of thousands of casualties (regardless of who actually caused them, they will be blamed on us by the families of those harmed, at a multiplier of, say x10).

C) There are vested interests who profit hugely from keeping conflicts and wars going, no matter the cost to Americans or anyone else. In a world where people are killed for $100 sneakers, people find this hard to believe?

“I notice you have no real answer.”

Unlikely.

“Your attempted answer is: what does George Bush have to do with this?… Translation: Time to wave hands… change the subject away from Paul.”

No, actually, it was to equate your concept of “conspiracy theorist” with George Bush. I, honestly, do not feel that he is as simpleminded and boyscout-like as others do, merely working with “the best information he had.” And neither do I think that Ron Paul’s political philosophy is simple-minded, either. You may dismiss his ideas as you wish, but recognize that the same could be said of George Bush (“he’s a lunatic”), and that you haven’t really said anything other than “I disagree.”

But really, credit for the rest should go to the Republicans in the California Legislature, who, despite doing it for exactly the wrong reasons (mostly spite), pretty much blocked any meaningful spending increases.

Meanwhile, what you’re going to see very, very quickly is Californians suddenly demanding enforcement of the laws preventing illegal immigrants from receiving welfare of any sort. Heck, we might even get what we need, which is a stiff tax on anyone trying to transfer money out of the United States who isn’t a citizen.

And as I had said,

CA voters wanted a centrist to solve it without tax increases. And Arnold largely did that. But, he had to compromise with Democrats in the Legislature, so it wasn’t completely solved.

State spending also has increased by more than 40 percent since Schwarzenegger took office after the 2003 recall of then-Gov. Gray Davis.

Schwarzenegger in August signed a $145.5 billion budget that increased spending 11 percent due largely to the increased cost of bond repayments and special funds. General fund spending for day-to-day operations increased less than 1 percent, from $101.7 to $102.3 billion for the budget year that began July 1.

TGC, I think ScreaminHowieDean was much more dangerous than RonPaul ever could be… Dean was taken seriously by some.

I look at the Ron Paul fundraisers and reflect on how adept Dean was. Too bad he’s not so good at raising money for the party.

http://www.hillarythemovie.com/trailer.html

I’ve been very critical of the abusive, corrupting influence of the conservatives in Congress and in nearly 2/3rds of the state GOP agencies…

Said, without added definition or qualification of the word “conservative”, on the blog whose 2 owners proudly bill it as “The Internet Home for the American gay conservative” (note: not Republican) and, as well, “The most reliably conservative [note: not Republican] gay blog on the Internet”. I love it!

Thank God he’s working for the Democrats. Best move he ever made… yeee-haw!

HT, and picking up on that point, I’ll continue to contend something different than that… as a GOPer, I’ve been very critical of the abusive, corrupting influence of the conservatives in Congress and in nearly 2/3rds of the state GOP agencies… they’ve been both a blessing (in terms of voting at the polls when provoked and prodded) and a bane (irritating litmus test issues that drive reasonable people AWAY from the GOP) to Republicans. But I fear now, so deeply entrenched in the GOP body politic, the Party of Lincoln may never purge itself of their good/bad influence.

Oh yeah, Republicans have been blamed for just about everything short of Rosie’s rise to fame on the view… or Jacko’s failing plasitc surgery… but the nite is young. And here in the comment threads, it’s sometimes as much a sport as it is over at the DailyKos.