60 Minutes Interview on DADT
This past Sunday, the CBS news program 60 minutes ran an interesting segment about gays openly serving in the military despite the Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell law banning homosexuals. The most prominent servicemember interviewed was US Army Sgt. Darren Manzella, a combat medic currently serving as part of Operation Iraqi Freedom. This interview is probably one of the most controversial in awhile as well, since not only is Sgt. Manzella openly serving with the tacit approval of his command, but he is not currently facing discharge proceedings for being gay. I have to be honest and say that while I strongly support the repeal of DADT and Manzella being able to serve openly, I have mixed feelings about his doing this interview. I think that Sgt. Manzella has a compelling story to tell and his open service even in combat shows just how absurd the DADT policy is. Stories like his may help in efforts to repeal this ridiculous law. However, I’m not so sure that this interview was held at the right time for him to speak up. From what he has said, people in his command put themselves on the line in order to keep him in and going public like this may leave some of them feeling betrayed. These commanders didn’t enact this law and obviously value his service, nor can the military itself change it. Thanks to President Clinton signing DADT into law in 1993, only Congress can make any changes or even repeal it. I don’t know Sgt. Manzella nor the entirety of his situation, but what happens to him and them now will help determine what other commands will do in a similiar situation. Will others be so willing to help known gay servicemembers remain in the military while DADT is in place? Difficult to say. I’m not sure that this interview was the right thing for him to do and even he acknowledges that he’ll probably be discharged over it. I think it might have been better to wait until leaving the military voluntarily, or at least when proceedings for discharge under DADT might have been initiated after the war. I’m cynical enough to believe that they would have been after the end of hostilities, which recent history seems to demonstrate. Yet, it is possible that my own experience from the early days under the policy might be coloring how I view this. I don’t know. I just don’t think him doing this interview now was the right move, even though I enjoyed his story. Nevertheless, he does have an interesting story and I have nothing but respect for those who put themselves in danger to save the lives of their fellow soldiers.
Besides Sgt. Manzella, there were other good interviews with some gay veterans. Inluded among these were Jarrod Chlapowski of Servicemembers United and Brian Fricke of Servicemembers Legal Defense Network. Both of these men in particular did a superb job in responding to reasonable questions from Leslie Stahl. The most amusing line though has to go to Fricke, calling those serving today the “Will & Grace Generation”. The more that people hear from gay vets like these gentlemen the more I believe they will see just how stupid this law really is.
Two final quick notes, Congressman Duncan Hunter in my view came across as a total ass, apparently unaware of what these Brits were decorated for, while Major Daniel Davis’ remarks appeared to be plagiarized almost verbatim in parts from the 1949 testimony defending racial segregation by then-SecArmy Kenneth C. Royall.
You can watch the 60 Minutes interview here or download the audio podcast version here (iTunes link).
UPDATE: Chlapowski did a follow-up interview on CNN about this that is well worth watching.
– John (Average Gay Joe)
21 Comments »
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AGJ, thanks for doing this post. Been busy, so I probably wouldn’t have known.
And Sgt. Manzella, if you’re reading: thanks for your service, and, cute pic!
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — December 18, 2007 @ 8:01 pm - December 18, 2007
I hope Manzella at least gave his superiors a heads-up to find out if they thought it would cause problems for them or not.
Comment by Synova — December 18, 2007 @ 11:50 pm - December 18, 2007
I agree that giving his superiors advance notice would be the decent thing to do, but he certainly didn’t need their approval. Manzella’s story is one that needed to be told to the country. And its message carries its greatest impact when told while he’s actually living it.
Comment by David — December 19, 2007 @ 2:32 am - December 19, 2007
I thought we were supposed to believe that gays in the military are being discharged, wholesale, by the millions.
Comment by ThatGayConservative — December 19, 2007 @ 2:46 am - December 19, 2007
I think the real roadblock to DADT being repealed are the old guys in charge. I really think a good bit of this is a generational thing, and while I am sure there are some young members in the military that wouldn’t be thrilled serving with open gays (and they probably never would be under any circumstance), I figure most of them don’t care as long as every does their jobs and fulfills their missions.
Comment by just me — December 19, 2007 @ 7:05 am - December 19, 2007
ILC: You’re welcome.
Synova: He did notify them beforehand.
David: I agree that he does a very compelling story, he’s a medic which is one of the most respected postions in the military. It’s the timing I have problems with. If he were under investigation or had voluntarily left the military and decided to do the interview at that time, that would have been better IMO. By doing it now, I have to wonder what this does to the people who went to bat for him by ignoring DADT so he could stay in.
TGC: Bit hyperbolic, dontcha think? Discharges usually go down during wartime only to rise when hostilities are ended. Rather makes the whole “unit cohesion” argument rather absurd since it doesn’t seem to apply when it’s tested the most.
Just me: Agreed. Just look at the remarks of former Marine Commandant Jones in the interview. Sure he supports DADT, but even he has softened on it and I doubt would remain steadfast against repealing it if such a move went forward.
Comment by John — December 19, 2007 @ 7:49 am - December 19, 2007
So when you come out and say that X is happening because of Y and we need to change Y immediately, then you come along and say, “Well, X isn’t really happening because Z is going on, but we should change Y now anyway”, I shouldn’t be skeptical?
It just seems to me that the ones who are really concerned the most about their jobs is the professional bitchers. In this example here, the “victim” doesn’t seem much like a victim. Seems more like a tool to me.
But that’s just me.
Comment by ThatGayConservative — December 19, 2007 @ 8:24 am - December 19, 2007
In any job, even civilian, you have to notify your superiors before talking to the press. Otherwise you will find yourself in deep doo-doo.
The wing-nut comments are disgusting but typical. This guy is doing a good job under fire. He should be commended.
Comment by Houndentenor — December 19, 2007 @ 9:24 am - December 19, 2007
Thanks for the heads up on the interview, John. I never watch 60 Minutes or anything from CBS News… just like I never listen to NPR -for the same reasons. Thanks for the link to the interview…
HT has it right: “This guy is doing a good job under fire. He should be commended.” And in a time of war, that’s all that should matter.
Comment by Michigan-Matt — December 19, 2007 @ 11:22 am - December 19, 2007
AGJ: I concur that Duncan Hunter is an ass. Little wonder he’s in the single digits in the Presidential race.
Comment by Jimbo — December 19, 2007 @ 11:51 am - December 19, 2007
Okay not that it matters to the discussion, but this guy is cute. Is he single? Maybe it’s just the uniform? No, he’s cute.
Sgt Manzella, if you are reading this email me at houndentenornyc AT aol DOT com.
Comment by Houndentenor — December 19, 2007 @ 2:49 pm - December 19, 2007
Anybody else notice that the clip showing the British gay soldiers marching in the gay parade also showed (in the background) a crowd of gays in sex slave outfits, complete with leather face masks? At that moment I said to myself, “Well, we just lost the support of about a half million housewives.”
Comment by MikeInSedona — December 19, 2007 @ 7:10 pm - December 19, 2007
Unless you’re on the George Soros dole. Then you’re a “whistleblower” who “stood up to the evil Bush empire”.
Comment by ThatGayConservative — December 19, 2007 @ 9:11 pm - December 19, 2007
Who said he isn’t and shouldn’t be? You, sir, are disgusting but typical.
Comment by ThatGayConservative — December 19, 2007 @ 9:13 pm - December 19, 2007
Only if you wish to be absurd. It’s not exactly a secret that the number of discharges during hostilities decreases only to go back up after peace is declared. In fact, SLDN and others have been highlighting this fact as it shows the hypocrisy of the policy, i.e. when “unit cohesion” is tested the most suddenly gay servicemembers in the ranks do not matter.
Yes, these folks can equally do harm and good to efforts to repeal DADT. Yet failings among “professional bitchers” doesn’t mean that we should ignore everyone who this policy effects. Don’t forget that every group has this bunch, including conservatives.
Comment by John — December 20, 2007 @ 5:40 am - December 20, 2007
You’re welcome. To be honest, I’m the same way and if I hadn’t found out beforehand that it was on I never would have known. NPR does have one podcast at least that I enjoy: Story of the Day. Besides that, I rarely pay attention to them.
Comment by John — December 20, 2007 @ 5:42 am - December 20, 2007
Not really relevant to the interview, but yeah he is. However, he’s not single as his boyfriend who was highlighted in the interview can attest.
Comment by John — December 20, 2007 @ 5:44 am - December 20, 2007
I forgot about that part. You’re right and it made me uncomfortable watching that as well since I personally do not care for that sort of thing. Even when DADT is repealed someday, I hope they keep the ban against marching in racy pride parades for awhile longer.
Comment by John — December 20, 2007 @ 5:46 am - December 20, 2007
Enquiring minds want to know!
And damn, i just knew the story wouldnt have a happy ending.
Comment by American Elephant — December 20, 2007 @ 7:18 am - December 20, 2007
hehe.. that reminds of this from the Onion:
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28491
Gay-Pride Parade Sets Mainstream Acceptance Of Gays Back 50 Years
WEST HOLLYWOOD, CA–The mainstream acceptance of gays and lesbians, a hard-won civil-rights victory gained through decades of struggle against prejudice and discrimination, was set back at least 50 years Saturday in the wake of the annual Los Angeles Gay Pride Parade.
“I’d always thought gays were regular people, just like you and me, and that the stereotype of homosexuals as hedonistic, sex-crazed deviants was just a destructive myth,” said mother of four Hannah Jarrett, 41, mortified at the sight of 17 tanned and oiled boys cavorting in jock straps to a throbbing techno beat on a float shaped like an enormous phallus. “Boy, oh, boy, was I wrong.”
The parade, organized by the Los Angeles Gay And Lesbian And Bisexual And Transvestite And Transgender Alliance (LAGALABATATA), was intended to “promote acceptance, tolerance, and equality for the city’s gay community.” Just the opposite, however, was accomplished, as the event confirmed the worst fears of thousands of non-gay spectators, cementing in their minds a debauched and distorted image of gay life straight out of the most virulent right-wing hate literature.
Among the parade sights and sounds that did inestimable harm to the gay-rights cause: a group of obese women in leather biker outfits passing out clitoris-shaped lollipops to horrified onlookers; a man in military uniform leading a submissive masochist, clad in diapers and a baby bonnet, around on a dog leash; several Hispanic dancers in rainbow wigs and miniskirts performing “humping” motions on a mannequin dressed as the Pope; and a dozen gyrating drag queens in see-through dresses holding penis-shaped beer bottles that appeared to spurt ejaculation-like foam when shaken and poured onto passersby.
Timothy Orosco, 51, a local Walgreens manager whose store is on the parade route, changed his attitude toward gays as a result of the event.
“They kept chanting things like, ‘We’re here, we’re queer, get used to it!’ and ‘Hey, hey, we’re gay, we’re not going to go away!’” Orosco said. “All I can say is, I was used to it, but now, although I’d never felt this way before, I wish they would go away.”
Allison Weber, 43, an El Segundo marketing consultant, also had her perceptions and assumptions about gays challenged by the parade.
“My understanding was that gay people are just like everybody else–decent, hard-working people who care about their communities and have loving, committed relationships,” Weber said. “But, after this terrifying spectacle, I don’t want them teaching my kids or living in my neighborhood.”
The parade’s influence extended beyond L.A.’s borders, altering the attitudes of straight people across America. Footage of the event was featured on telecasts of The 700 Club as “proof of the sin-steeped world of homosexuality.” A photo spread in Monday’s USA Today chronicled many of the event’s vulgar displays–understood by gays to be tongue-in-cheek “high camp”–which horrified previously tolerant people from coast to coast.
Dr. Henry Thorne, a New York University history professor who has written several books about the gay-rights movement, explained the misunderstanding.
“After centuries of oppression as an ‘invisible’ segment of society, gays, emboldened by the 1969 Stonewall uprising, took to the streets in the early ’70s with an ‘in-your-face’ attitude. Confronting the worst prejudices of a world that didn’t accept them, they fought back against these prejudices with exaggeration and parody, reclaiming their enemies’ worst stereotypes about them and turning them into symbols of gay pride,” Thorne said. “Thirty years later, gays have won far greater acceptance in the world at large, but they keep doing this stuff anyway.”
“Mostly, I think, because it’s really fun,” Thorne added.
The Los Angeles Gay Pride Parade, Thorne noted, is part of a decades-old gay-rights tradition. But, for mainstream heterosexuals unfamiliar with irony and the reclamation of stereotypes for the purpose of exploding them, the parade resembled an invasion of grotesque outer-space mutants, bent on the destruction of the human race.
“I have a cousin who’s a gay, and he seemed like a decent enough guy to me,” said Iowa City, IA, resident Russ Linder, in Los Angeles for a weekend sales seminar. “Now, thanks to this parade, I realize what a freak he’s been all along. Gays are all sick, immoral perverts.”
Parade organizers vowed to make changes in the wake of the negative reaction among heterosexuals.
“I knew it. I said we needed 100 dancers on the ‘Show Us Your Ass’ float, but everybody insisted that 50 would be enough,” said Lady Labia, spokesperson for LAGALABATATA. “Next year, we’re really going to give those breeders something to look at.”
—-
The story has to photos, the captions are:
Members of the Laguna Beach Leatherdaddy Association make their final pre-march preparations.
Participants in Saturday’s Los Angeles Gay Pride Parade, which helped change straight people’s tolerant attitudes toward gays.
Comment by Vince P — December 20, 2007 @ 8:13 am - December 20, 2007
It took me a while to get around to watching the 60 minutes, and now I’m sorry I did. They do a hatchet job, everyone comes off looking bad. Duncan Hunter (he is the only one deservedly so). The Gay men, since it was absolutely ‘necessary’ to include that clip of the bondage people at the parade. Oh and of course this was all Congresses fault, they were trying to derail Bill Clinton, he bears no responsibility for the outcome. And Leslie Stahl looks beyond awful – I’m so sick and tired of old women trying to look like teenagers!
The only purpose I can think of for 60 minutes existence is to be sensationalist. I’m under the impression that they are hoping that Manzella gets kicked out – Leslie states that he spoke to them without the knowledge of his superiors, and ends by saying that by the time this airs – he may be kicked out.
It did nothing to further the cause, though I am sure that is what the Service Members United are hoping for.
This is an important issue, I’m sorry to see 60 minutes trivializing it for ratings.
Comment by Leah — December 20, 2007 @ 6:27 pm - December 20, 2007