Eliot Spitzer, Larry Craig, Sex and Circumstance
Welcome Instapundit Readers!!Â
During the last sex scandal involving a prominent politician, I contended that the real issue was not so much the scandal’s lurid details or the politician’s hypocrisy, but Idaho Senator Larry Craig’s “absence of judgment.” Here again, the issue seems to be judgment, but there is much more to New York Governor Eliot Spitzer’s woes than that.
If the only issue were the Democratic governor’s use of prostitutes, I might agree with his statement yesterday that this is “a private matter” where he, in his words, merely violated “obligations to my family and violates my, or any, sense of right and wrong.” To be sure, there would be the added issue of whether a man who took his marriage vow so lightly might also show a similar disregard for other vows he had taken, namely his oath of office of governor of New York.
Being pretty libertarian, I oppose the criminalization of prostitution. This is not to say I believe prostitution to be a good thing, just that I think it don’t think it should be illegal. On that score, Governor Spitzer’s actions are, as he said, a private mattter.
That said, however, this is a man who, for eight years, was chief law enforcer for the nation’s third largest state. Â Such an individual should respect the laws–or use his position to push for their repeal. Not only that. A state attorney general chooses the cases he prosecutes. Â And he chose to prosecute “at least two prostitution rings as head of the state’s organized crime task force.“
That’s not all. He appears to have involved in structuring, moving money around to “obscure the true purpose of his payments” to the prostitutes. The issue here was as much financial as it was sexual (Via Instapundit).
If Larry Craig’s foot-tapping had not been in a public place, that would indeed have been a private matter and not merited media scrutiny. And for the Idaho Republican, it wasn’t just that one episode. He had been the subject of rumors regarding similar behavior in another public restroom ten months nearly a year before his scandal broke. That should have served as a reminder to him that what one does in a public space could easily become public knowledge.
As Governor Spitzer, ambitious man that he is, should also have been aware that would he called a “private matter” could easily become public knowledge. I mean, he prosecuted not one, but two, prostitution rings.
Or was it his arrogance? Like another smart and politically savvy Democrat, did he think he could get away with his sexual shenaningans?
That Democrat too showed a terrible absence of judgment. Given that Republicans had been making an issue of his sexual behavior while he was still Governor of Arkansas, Bill Clinton should have exercised some restraint while in the Oval Office, especially given that he was (at the time of his indisccretions) the subject of a lawsuit alleging sexual harassment. And the woman filing that lawsuit first came forward at a conservative political conference.
What links these three scandals is not just the sex, it’s also the circumstance. Each man had had experience knowing that such sexual antics could lead to public exposure, litigation and even prosecution. And yet, he acted as he did.
All three showed a terrible absence of judgment. And we rely on our leaders to exercise judgment on matters of concern not just to themselves and their families, but to all of us as well. Let us hope that in the future, our leaders have better senses of judgment than these men.
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Why shouldn’t prostitution be illegal? Do you want to see that every day on your street corner? Like Hannity said, would you want to have to explain it to your kids?
Comment by ThatGayConservative — March 11, 2008 @ 10:48 pm - March 11, 2008
BTW, I heard on ABC news, the other day, that another man who was arrested the same day as Craig was acquitted. He got off, as it were, because the officer initiated the contact.
Comment by ThatGayConservative — March 11, 2008 @ 10:50 pm - March 11, 2008
No, but that’s not the issue. You’ve raised a bit of a red herring. There are zoning laws, and laws against endangering children. There is a difference between something that should be totally illegal vs. something that should be kept away from kids.
Think of it like adult bookstores. Adult bookstores are legal, and yet, somehow, they aren’t on every street corner. Zoning laws as well as child protection laws.
Here’s one reason that private, "zoned" prostitution should be legal: Illegal businesses - illegal property and profits - drive the demand for illegal protection services, aka criminal gangs. A lesson America learned, or ought to have, from alcohol Prohibition. Let’s take one more thing away from the criminal mob. **For society’s good**, the bar ought to be pretty darn high before we consider taking a mere personal vice - alcohol, smoking, consensual and private prostitution, etc. - and making it illegal.
I say all this as someone who has never been to a prostitute and can say confidently that he never will be.
Further, I agree 100% with the disapprobation that have rained down on both Spitzer and Craig. Spitzer is a power-lusting hypocrite on so many levels, who got what was coming to him. That he prosecuted others for prostitution - ruining their lives - while secretly indulging in the vice himself, is utterly, morally wrong and shows no integrity. Spitzer and Craig alike should absolutely have resigned already.
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — March 11, 2008 @ 11:49 pm - March 11, 2008
You see it on the street today because you’ll eventually be busted if you try to maintain your own "prostitution store" somewhere. Ditto street-corner drug dealers. Make it legal and you can confine it to certain areas with zoning.
Comment by anon — March 11, 2008 @ 11:50 pm - March 11, 2008
I agree with your post including legalizing prostitution. The street corner bit is a red herring.
Presently, a person can have sex with as many others as they can convince to have sex with them. But if money is exchanged, then it’s illegal. It makes no sense.
Comment by DADvocate — March 12, 2008 @ 6:44 am - March 12, 2008
God forbid we ever have to explain anything to our kids, that’s what public schools are for right?
Comment by Jeff — March 12, 2008 @ 6:48 am - March 12, 2008
Spitzer has probably not resigned and will not until he has made some deal with teh Feds. If he resigns before that, he will be giving up any leverage he has to make a deal–resignation and no prosecution.Â
Comment by M. A. George — March 12, 2008 @ 6:59 am - March 12, 2008
Personally, I believe that prostitution is dead wrong. But GayPatriotWest has it right when he says that the main issue here is not prostitution. It’s that a high govt. official (like others in our history), supposedly one of the role-models of America, decided that: a) various oaths (marriage & otherwise) were not worth his time if it meant he had to give up his fun; b) Spitzer quite obviously believes that the rules do not apply to him; & c) His hypocrisy is obvious, given that he made his career busting others for this kind of thing. To sum it up, he blatantly violated all his oaths, broke the law many times, & lied to us repeatedly trying to cover it up. Frankly, I wouldn’t trust him with a trashbag.
Comment by wandering — March 12, 2008 @ 7:36 am - March 12, 2008
Also, just because it’s going to happen anyways does not mean we should legalize it. While it is true that it will always be there, the point of laws is to, at least in part, create morality in people so that they don’t just go off & do whatever they want at the expense of others (I wouldn’t want to have to keep an assault rifle, tear gas grenades, & bullet-proof clothes just because there were no laws to keep everyone & his brother from stealing everything that wasn’t nailed down). However, such nice terms (because it’s the right thing to do) don’t work on everyone, so we have to be a bit meaner about it (if you do this, we will put your *** in jail).
Comment by wandering — March 12, 2008 @ 7:46 am - March 12, 2008
For fiction about politicians & prostitutes, you might enjoy Naked in Haiti: A Sexy Morality Tale About Tourists, Prostitutes & Politicians. http://www.dankingbooks.com will get you there.
Comment by Dan King — March 12, 2008 @ 8:00 am - March 12, 2008
I have to respectfully dissent on the issue of legalizing prostitution. History demonstrates that societies that are unable to uphold moral standards are not strong enough to protect individual freedoms. Cheapening and commoditizing sex is bad for society as a whole. The impact is felt far beyond any ‘red zones’ that could be mapped out for restricting such transactions. Not to mention, once legalized, the pressure to normalize such transactions and push them out of the red zones and into the mainstream is much greater.
Also, cheapening and commoditizing sex has the effect of teaching people to devalue intimate relationships. This has a devatasting impact on the ability to maintain stable families, which are the foundation of a free society. Look no further than Europe to see the result. European civilization is dying before our very eyes.
Also, it is human nature that a significant number of people will seek to gratify themselves by defying society’s taboos. Therefore, it’s important to make only a very narrow range of behaviors socially acceptable. As deviancy is defined downward, people whose sense of gratification requires breaking taboos are pushed to more extreme forms of behavior. Meanwhile, other people who otherwise would never dreamed of engaging in deviant behaviors will do so when those behaviors are socially tolerated.
This is why I could never be a pure libertarian. It’s nice to be all high-minded and idealistic, but in the real world, prostitution isn’t just a meaningless financial transaction, it has negative impacts. Not to mention that what it actually leads to is weak, vulnerable women being used and exploited by unscrupulous men.
Comment by V the K — March 12, 2008 @ 8:01 am - March 12, 2008
I think a potentially explosive aspect is being overlooked here, specifically that it’s being reported that Spitzer had been using this "Emperor’s Club" prostitution group for a decade. IOW, he was doing business with a criminal organization at the same time he was prosecuting their competition. One doesn’t even have to prove overt collusion to show that AG Spitzer was protecting them even as he laid seige to their business foes…he demonstrably did.  In this regard, Spitzer became their de facto, if not de jure, consigliere.
Comment by Jeffersonian — March 12, 2008 @ 8:35 am - March 12, 2008
Legalizing prostitution requires a bureaucracy to police it and the amateurs who will surround the industry. The providers have to be licensed, medically checked on a regular basis, zoned, have their advertising monitored, etc. The legal system will be awash with who transmitted what disease cases and the provider will have standing if she gets pregnant.
On the outside, will be the part timers who are picking up drug money or just taking a thrill ride. They will still prowl the halls of the projects or do quickies in the back seat.
We are talking about the oldest conflict of emotions in the world. Few sound marriages exist where the husband sends his wife off to whore or the wife takes in laundry so her husband can go get serviced.
Victimless crimes can only be rationally discussed if the person is a dedicated libertine who assiduously avoids any emotional attachment to anyone. Even then, his loyal hound dog may end up a victim to his master’s case of AIDS.
Comment by heliotrope — March 12, 2008 @ 8:51 am - March 12, 2008
If legalizing prostitution (or drugs) is such a great idea and popular, why hasn’t it spread around the country? Every time there is story like this, you don’t see politicians running to the microphones pusing to legalize prostitution. Why? Because they would lose their next election even if their only opposition was a member of Hezbollah.Â
Society will tolerate a lot of things they won’t legalize, figuring it is better to marginalize some conduct rather than give it their blessing. The next time a governor or president or senator wins an election after vowing to push for the legalization of prostitution or drugs will be the first. It may be better for society but it is never popular enough to be changed.
Comment by MU78 — March 12, 2008 @ 9:16 am - March 12, 2008
Craig was suitably sanctioned for attempting to do something in public that should have remained private. Having done so, he should have left office. Having so publicly and horribly mis-handled the episode he really should have left office.
Spitzer appears to have broken multiple financial laws intended to limit or restrict payment for, or profit from illegal activities. This is not mere personal impropriety it represents a much more subversive assault on our legal system. Like Craig he needs to face the court, and he really needs to leave office.
 Â
Comment by ThomasD — March 12, 2008 @ 9:20 am - March 12, 2008
come on guys….. we ALL pay for sex in one way or another
Comment by Jim — March 12, 2008 @ 9:33 am - March 12, 2008
Funny, the social hell that heliotrope descibes hasn’t descended on other societys that have legalized and controlled prostitution.
Comment by Who Knew? — March 12, 2008 @ 9:42 am - March 12, 2008
The Thunder Run has linked to this post in the - Web Reconnaissance for 03/12/2008 A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the day…so check back often.
Comment by David M — March 12, 2008 @ 10:19 am - March 12, 2008
There a many things I hope never to see on the street corner, a Jiffy Lube, yet another freaking Starbucks or a work of publicly funded modern art. Not that I have anything against long engine life, coffee or sinecures for the liberally educated erstwhile unemployable scions of politically connected families, it’s just that we already have lots of these things in my town. We also have a lot of prostitutes, you do to, you’re may not be aware of it.Â
You can employee people in a professional capacity to do many things for you. Prepare your taxes, answer your phone, and remove your tumor, teach you to speak Latvian. You can also hire a person(s) domestically to wash your clothes, keep your house, care for your children, and keep your aging parents company so you don’t have to. Why do we draw the line at sex? Granted, I compare apples to oranges her, but they’re both still fruit. I believe it is Puritanism, pure and simple. There is a tendency here in America to condemn that which we think our neighbors would disapprove of, but somebody is paying these people for sex. The potential for the spread of disease is a factor, but no more so than a tattoo parlor and just as easily monitored and controlled if legalized.
By remove the criminality from prostitution you release the people who are caught between the rock of the criminal elements exploiting them and the hard place of the law that would prosecute them.Â
Comment by El Duderino — March 12, 2008 @ 10:28 am - March 12, 2008
I read an interesting argument. A guy was saying there really isn’t a convincing distinction between paying someone to have sex with you (prostitution), and paying two people to have sex with each other, videotaping it, and selling it to the public (pornography)
Comment by ken — March 12, 2008 @ 11:27 am - March 12, 2008
I would expect that the REALLY interesting issues are: the 10 years (at least) of Spitzer’s involvement with a very expensive prostitution business (and who owns that thing, it sounds very ‘organized’ to me); and the question of money: where did Spitzer get all that cash that he spent at that expensive hooker place?Â
He seems to have been very louche about his campaign funds…Â and then there are all the other sources available to a smart on-the-go legal eagle/politician.
As to prostitution, I agree with Jonah Goldberg: this should be a local issue, solved at the municipal level. As per Nevada.
Comment by heather — March 12, 2008 @ 11:59 am - March 12, 2008
All somewhat interesting, but off point. Spitzer was in charge of law enforcement for the State of New York, both as Governor and AG - judicial appointments, prosecutors, marshals, pardons and paroles, etc. For him to put himself in a position of being subject to blackmail by people in a business where mostly everyone is mobbed up to some degree is inexcusable. A legislator, even a Senator, is one of many. It’s much less serious, however tacky.
Comment by Mahon — March 12, 2008 @ 12:24 pm - March 12, 2008
V the K:
Then, since no society has ever been able to uphold moral standards, no society has ever been strong enough to protect individual freedoms. (Reductio ad absurdum)
Agree 100%. And you know what’s even worse for society as a whole? Criminalizing mere personal vices, thus furthering the "need" for illegal and illegitimate businesses and finally, illegitimate property protection services, also known as criminal gangs.
Not because they have (wisely) ceased to criminalize prostitution, but for other causes. E.g., their socialism, which leaves people with zero personal responsibility or role in their own lives.
No one is proposing to "define deviancy downward" - only to improve the situation for society by (a) making one less driver for the existence of criminal gangs, and (b) giving the police better things to do. Furthermore, earlier you wanted to bring in Europe as an example of what allegedly happens when you legalize prostitution. Have people in Europe been driven to, say, rape or murder, because prostitution is too safe/legal? Not at all.
It has undeniable negative impacts to the people doing it, BUT, limited in scope - and, limited to those people. Same with alcohol, smoking, and playing Wham! records to your friends. How can you morally and logically justify banning one, and not the other? Where would it end?
heliotrope:
Please tolerate me in correcting that for you:
There. Please count me as one of those who believes it would be better for society as a whole, if the police could concentrate more on real crimes.
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — March 12, 2008 @ 12:41 pm - March 12, 2008
A further point about this:
History demonstrates that societies which attempt to *legislate* moral standards, end up merely destroying a culture in which people would otherwise enforce such standards spontaneously on themselves and each other. It is a principle known to economists as, "Bad regulation drives out good regulation." The more rules you have - the more you criminalize things - the more people’s concern becomes "What do the rules say now? What can I get away with now?" - rather than with doing (and being) the Right Thing.
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — March 12, 2008 @ 12:47 pm - March 12, 2008
Jeffersonian, I have half-wondered for years if Spitzer was, in fact, merely acting against criminal enterprise B on behalf of criminal enterprise A. That’s what government does, when it makes law after law. It "picks and chooses" who it’s going to enforce them on.
Likewise, the sudden revelations about Spitzer could have been planted by some criminal enterprise, as a form of protection or as revenge. We’ll probably never know.
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — March 12, 2008 @ 12:53 pm - March 12, 2008
The real problem here is that Spitzer was NY AG while this was going on. This means that while he did prosecute some prostitution rings, he was obviously ignoring one right in front of his face.
Moreover, the fake name at the hotel in DC, calling the bank to have his name removed from the wire transfers, etc. point to the fact the he obviously knew what he as doing was wrong.
Still missing from all of this is what was happening around him while all of this was going on. I mean, don’t governors have a security detail ? Just like Clinton who had security guards joking about Lewinsky waiting for him in the Oval Office, didn’t anybody on the Governor’s staff notice anything odd about his hotel booking in DC, etc. ?
Comment by Neo — March 12, 2008 @ 1:57 pm - March 12, 2008
Is it possible he was working for one mob while taking down the business of another?
Comment by M. Simon — March 12, 2008 @ 5:03 pm - March 12, 2008
If he were, he wouldn’t be the first.
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — March 12, 2008 @ 5:07 pm - March 12, 2008
Actually drugs are being legalized (slowly) around the country.
Pot laws are being dismantled or go unenforced. Needle exchange programs are another such step. And both moves are popular. Why? Well when it comes to robbers vs pot smokers , people know who the real dangers to their community are.
Comment by M. Simon — March 12, 2008 @ 5:16 pm - March 12, 2008
Who Knew in #17 states: "Funny, the social hell that heliotrope descibes hasn’t descended on other societys that have legalized and controlled prostitution." Â
You can not compare Thailand with the United States. The Netherlands is the country with legalized prostitution that is most nearly like the United States. The one element in my doomsday scenario that is missing in The Netherlands is a robust system of victim’s right litigation. Legalized prostitution in Scandinavia has the same "risk" involvement for the customer.Â
In the United States we are very serious about consumer protection. It is folly to assume that we would legally permit the free exchange of body fluids as commerce and not regulate it in terms of protecting the provider and the consumer.
The legalized prostitution in Nevada is monitored by the health department and the consumers have legal rights. Las Vegas has had policing problems with prostitutes who are not registered and inspected. The professional hookers have an ongoing beef with the "scab" hookers who are selling it cheaper and not obeying the rules.
My comments stand. They are exactly what our city council would wrestle with if they decided to legalize prostitution. Don’t take it from me. Head down to your local city attorney and ask him what would be involved from the perspective of your city in legalizing prostitution.
I talked with our chief of police this afternoon and he said that the hookers in our community are treated with benign neglect based on their staying out of public notice. Those are not his words, but that is a clear understanding of the discussion.
The hookers were chased out of Times Square in NYC. Like all community pests they simply moved out of the bright lights. The police generally get involved in dealing with prostitution when it becomes too obvious.
Legalizing drugs, prostitution, porn, gambling, euthanasia, etc. in a society with a vigorous system of tort litigation is more than just declaring the practice legal.Â
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Comment by heliotrope — March 12, 2008 @ 5:59 pm - March 12, 2008
Look I want 535 Congress people who will live their lives within the law. I’d also like 50 Governors of states, the Prez and VP to live their lives within the law. If there are some laws that they are uncomfortable with, they should campaign to change the laws before they get elected. Simple. If any public official breaks laws they should resign and skank away and get out of our sight. My favorite lately is the MSM and leftists comparing Spitzer to Larry Craig. All law breakers should resign but when the liberals draw an eqivilency between someone playing footsie and spending 10 years and 80K breaking the law it ain’t the same thing people.
Comment by Gene in Pennsylvania — March 12, 2008 @ 8:30 pm - March 12, 2008
You’ve raised a bit of a red herring. There are zoning laws, and laws against endangering children.
Well I sure as hell didn’t know that there were parts of town zoned for prostitutes. In my town, however, there doesn’t seem to be any compliance with zoned areas. Prostitutes can be found in largely residential areas along main streets. They’re not just relegated to Wabash Ave. or Bartow Rd.
Comment by ThatGayConservative — March 12, 2008 @ 9:13 pm - March 12, 2008
Obviously, cities don’t zone for illegal activities and even if they did, operators only honor zones if doing so means the police hassle them less.
If prostitution were legalized, it could and would be zoned. So you’d see less of it on ordinary streets. Wow - things would actually get better than they are now, in your community. (It sounds like.)
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — March 13, 2008 @ 6:38 am - March 13, 2008
I dispute with ILC the notion that Eurotopia’s decline is strictly socialistic. That only accounts for the economic decline. The social and cultural decline are the result of hedonistic culture, that values personal gratification above all things. If you remove Muslim immigrants from the equation, Europeans aren’t producing children at even replacement levels. The reason Europeans don’t give a damn about preserving their culture for the next generation is because, for the most part, there *isn’t* a next generation.
Here’s how Bruce Thornton, Professor of Classics at the University of California at Fresno and author of <i>Decline and Fall: Europe’s Slow-Motion Suicide</i>, puts it:
<blockquote>“Children are expensive. They require you to sacrifice your time and your interests and your own comfort. If your highest good is pleasure, if your highest good is a sophisticated life, then children get in the way. Why would you spend so much money and so much energy on children if your highest good is simply material well-being? That’s sort of the spiritual dimension of the problem."</blockquote>
Families and children require personal sacrifice and denial of self-gratification. A culture that elevates hedonism devalues those values.
Comment by V the K — March 13, 2008 @ 8:13 am - March 13, 2008
V the K, I have had a rough time with grad students when we attempt to chase down the parameters of hedonism. Anything seductive has soft shoulders. But when we speak in definite terms, we tend to be lulled by the concept of a firm divide.
Legalizing a "hedonistic" activity is abolishing society’s firm divide. From there on, the society is free to "slip, slide away."
Ergo, I agree with your post. But I caution you that many gays are openly hedonistic and therefore reinforce the determination on the part of "society" that gay marriage in a non-starter. This whole discussion about prostitution has lacked the open honesty of how radical gay behavior has confused the concept.Â
Comment by heliotrope — March 13, 2008 @ 10:02 am - March 13, 2008
Me too! I had said, "*For example*, their socialism…"
Note, however, that socialism has giant moral and spiritual dimensions. It is not strictly economic. Show me a socialist country and I’ll show you a country where people have little responsibility, power or freedom in any matters; where "all are slaves to all", or to the elite bureaucracy. That gives people deep inner despair.
Now, as for what else is causing Europe to disappear? Another factor I’d cite is their self-hatred, i.e., their post-colonial commitment to Left multi-culturalism. It leaves them morally and ideologically defenseless against the Islamists.
Finally, even if Europe’s decline is partly a result of pure hedonism (apart from socialism or self-hate / multi-culturalism), that has little bearing on the question of whether prostitution is best "kept in a box" through criminalization or de-criminalization. Please see TGC at #32; criminalization has apparently kept prostitutes *out* of the box, i.e., on ordinary streetcorners, in his community.
In short, V, you make excellent points about sex, culture and European decline - points I agree with - just not points that address my arguments for why criminalization is a dumb way to deal with prostitution.
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — March 13, 2008 @ 12:24 pm - March 13, 2008
Why is Senator Vitter still in office, and Gov Spitzer on his way out?  The madam of Vitter’s  escort serviceis  on trial in Washington, D.C. Under the doctrine of "selective prosecution" where are the names of the other  "clients" of the Emperors VIP  service? Why  was only Spitzer "outed"?
Comment by Pete — March 13, 2008 @ 1:33 pm - March 13, 2008
#37
Not that familiar with the Vitter story. Is there a federal investigation of money laundering?
Comment by ThatGayConservative — March 14, 2008 @ 1:30 am - March 14, 2008
Prostitution is legal and "boxed in" in Amsterdam, correct? <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/03/13/wgay113.xml">The cultural/moral slippage is evident</a>.
Comment by V the K — March 14, 2008 @ 4:28 am - March 14, 2008
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