As persecution — and prosecution — of gay people continues apace in some Islamic nations, the national gay groups remain, by and large, silent. A reader just alerted me to this article, reporting that an “Egyptian court convicted five men Wednesday on charges of homosexual behavior and sentenced them to three years in prison.”
The web-sites for the Human Rights Campaign (HRC) and the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force (NGLTF) offer no commentary on these prosecutions.
Are these groups so hesitant to criticize the persecution of gay people in Islamic lands because they fear this might upset their status as a member of the coalition of oppressed, those who see the oppressors only as conservatives, corporations and the “governing classes” of Western societies?
While these groups may be silent, a number of gay men and lesbians of the left (mostly bloggers) have taken the time to take on Islamofascistic oppression of gay people.
Please feel free to provide me with links to their posts so I may update this post accordingly. Here is an issue where we have common ground with those voices of the gay left not beholden to the reigning ideology of the gay organizations, those who prefer solidarity with the larger left-wing movements to advocacy for our fellows around the world.
Liberals are only opposed to trendy things. It’s fashionable to go ape shit over Tibet, but they couldn’t care less about Cuba, Venezuela etc. Maybe if Egyptian gays started repeating KOShole bumper sticker slogans, the American left would care about them like they do for al-Qaida.
TGC, couldn’t say it better. So, I won’t even try! 🙂
Hmm, too bad it again turns juvenile and of no value. TGC, instead of whining about liberals how about if you post some gay conservative groups that are doing something about it. Would be positive be too difficult?
The one I’ve heard ring the alarm about treatment of gays in Islamic countries is Doug Ireland. I haven’t bothered to check his political views so I don’t know if he’s acceptable to the ones on here who can’t look past labels but here’s the link. Right now he’s talking about Italy but as I said he often speaks of the Middle Eastern countries where we are mistreated so badly. That’s one thing about many of the conservative Christian groups is that they make their readers aware of what happens in the more oppressive countries. Too bad we couldn’t follow their example.
http://direland.typepad.com/
I meant to say, “that’s one thing about the conservaitve Christian groups that I admire” And I appreciate that it is often brought up here.
1: Hmmmm….I’m a liberal and I’m opposed to the oppression and killings of gays in Iran (anywhere for that matter, actually) as well as in Cuba, Venezula, etc. So, that blows your stupid theory out of the water to lump all liberals together.
Another interesting take occurred almost a year ago. The Boston Gay Pride Parade usually gets a front page shot. Last year it was relegated into the “City and Regions” section. Front page coverage went to a procession of ‘Ikwan’ and their women en route to their new Islamic Center.
The Center land parcel was granted to the group below bid by the Boston Redevelopment Authority….upon which a gay man has a safe position.
Hate processing in one direction, their would-be victims going in another.
You guessed it. Nobody spoke up.
Sign of the times.
#5: Yeah, that’s what the debate is about, Kevin. Whether you’re FOR or AGAINST the murder of gays abroad. I’m glad to hear you’re against it because it’s such a thorny issue to wrestle with–reasonable people on both sides of the debate certainly have valid points. While Iran’s practice of strangling gays to death in the town square and in broad daylight is a fascinating cultural tradition to be respected, on the other hand, it seems a bit…I dunno…mean and unfair? (I hope that doesn’t sound too “judgey.”) I’m still not sure how I feel about it–it’s hardly one of those easily-resolved, black/white, moral dilemmas with a clear answer.
Perhaps if I had your empirical judgment and moral clarity I could FINALLY decide where I stand on this issue! If only I had an ounce of the awesome bravery exemplified by liberals–being “AGAINST” the murder of gays simply for being gay. Wow. Breathtaking. I’m sure those dead, gay, Iranian teenagers appreciate it and can’t thank you enough for your principled “opposition.” And if they were here, I’m sure they would also admire the liberals’ (and I’m guessing, your) unequivocal opposition to the Bush Administration and its criminal, imperialistic efforts to stop Iran’s nuclear program. (Bush, is, afterall, just trying to turn Iran into his “next Iraq.”) I mean, I’m sure they didn’t want to die, but they knew as well as anyone–the law’s the law. Even as they were standing in the gallows, I’m sure they found peace knowing that liberals “opposed” their murders, but only because they knew the same liberals wouldn’t dream of allowing the U.S. to dishonor their memories by daring to question their proud nation’s judgment when it comes to proliferating weapons of mass destruction. I’m sure in their final moments, those kids were thinking, “It’s too late for the liberals to save me, but at least they can save Ahmadinejad’s nuclear program.”
But how can this be?
On Tuesday Joe of Joe.My.God covered the NGLTF’s New York Leadership Awards and proclaimed that the NGLTF was “an organization that has fought loudly and fiercely for all our LGBT brothers and sisters.”
Joe stated how proud he was to have Matt Foreman, the NGLTF’s outgoing executive director, as a friend. How could Foreman allow his organization to so badly fail his good buddy Joe?
I think Joe’s post gives us the needed clue. Foreman felt the need to defend his legacy:
I can’t believe it. Kevin finally learned something, after 2-3 long years.
What I came to say: It’s not just that gay groups are silent on the prosecution/persecution of gays in other lands. It’s that so many gays are downright oblivious to it. Today’s exhibit: An article by Dale Carpenter in the B.A.R., The Democrats’ Choice: A Hope for Audacity. It begins:
Never mind that Carpenter dismisses Obama’s documented association with anti-gay ministers, such as the Rev. James T. Meeks. or ignores Obama’s documented refusal to have his photo taken with “controversial” SF Mayor Gavin Newsom. My point lies elsewhere. My point is that it never crosses Carpenter’s mind, at least in this article, that McCain could be best for gay equality because equality starts with gays not being killed or imprisoned, and McCain would stand up the most against the countries who do that, and for America. That possibility doesn’t even get a passing mention.
The column appears is labelled “Out Right”. I am not sure why, because the views Carpenter expresses have nothing to doing with a conservative approach, nor for that matter with actual, day-to-day gay equality in this world. I don’t know much of Carpenter’s other work. Could he be one of those writers who, like Andrew Sullivan, claims a conservative identity but always panders to liberals?
“like Andrew Sullivan, claims a conservative identity but always panders to liberals”
2nd time I’ve seen Sullivan critisized on here. So, it’s not only liberals that are your enemy, but anyone who doesn’t think exactly like you, and no one can be conservative on some things and liberal on others?
Dang, there’s that vision of goose-stepping again.
#10: “…no one can be conservative on some things and liberal on others?”
Sure they can. It just means they’re right on “some things” and wrong on “others.”
Dave (#10) – Obviously you haven’t been reading us very long if this is only the SECOND time you’ve seen us take down Sully. C’mon, we are here mainly due to being REAL gay conservatives, unlike Hizzoner The Andy.
By the way, what is your hangup? “Enemy”.. “Goose-stepping”?
Methinks you are projecting.
I don’t think Sully is an enemy… he is just wrong on a lot of things.
What is YOUR problem?
Dave,
I’m going to second the above comments. I’m a prime example of what Sean A calls “wrong on some things”. I’m actually not a conservative at all. I refuse the label. I’m practically a liberal, on social issues. I was a Democrat for the better part of 2 decades, before wising up and going Independent. On economic issues, I am no conservative either: I am a radical for laissez-faire capitalism. I think our economy and society should be drastically different than they are. There are issues where I agree with people on this blog and issues where I don’t.
And on foreign policy issues, because some of the people who visit here think we should be out of Iraq, or should never have gone in. I don’t think that. But if they speak with civility and can put a sentence together, I will express my disagreements with them in like fashion.
You, by contrast, come to this blog with an attitude based on insults and condescension, and at times, try to talk out of both sides of your mouth. So, I give you more of a “takedown” attitude – while still keeping it clean. But, long story short, this is an open blog and (once again) you would do well to cut the crap.
As for Sullivan: He, like me (but in very different ways), is no conservative. I know he likes to think he’s one. I know he likes to say he’s one. But if it “thinks” like a liberal, quacks like a liberal, never says a thing that isn’t designed to tell liberals what they already believe they “know” and would want to hear (aka pandering)… it’s a liberal.
“You, by contrast, come to this blog with an attitude based on insults and condescension”
No, ILC, I came to this blog looking for informed discussion of issues from a conservative viewpoint. What I saw out of many of those who regularly comment here is “insults and condescension” and a view that all liberals are the enemy. The “crap” was here, I did not bring it, though I admit I do often respond in kind. So, ILC, if you want the crap cut, address your concerns to those who crap the most.
“By the way, what is your hangup?”
Bruce, the words used by some on here to describe liberals and liberal views show clearly who the ones are with hangups. “Enemy” is a polite word compared to others that have been used here.
No Dave, you come to this blog with an attitude based on insults and condescension.
You obviously haven’t got the guts to admit the obvious. But, that’s not my problem.
P.S. And if others also come to this blog with an attitude of insults and condescension, that is equally not my problem. You may address them, Dave, if you care to. It will help your case if (1) you aren’t just like them, and if (2) you aren’t actually worse than them, because they at least tell it straight and never deploy cheap double-talk tactics.
OT-but-related – and, hat tip Ace: A Muslim cleric on Saudi TV explains that yes, they really do hate freedom.
Ummm I care a great deal about the oppression of gays in the Muslim world and so do many other gay people. Gay City News in New York regularly has articles about this issue (available online) and Towleroad and others regularly blog. It’s hard getting information out of countries that do not have a free press and persecute not only gays but people who report on the treatment of gays. But there is some information coming out.
So instead of bashing liberals, perhaps gay conservatives should coalesce around this issue in and help gays in the Muslim world including those in the west fighting deportation back to countries where they will likely be executed.
Join with Liberals to help gays overseas?
Ok.
Who?