Ok.

Who?

So instead of bashing liberals, perhaps gay conservatives should coalesce around this issue in and help gays in the Muslim world including those in the west fighting deportation back to countries where they will likely be executed.

…It begins with freedom of thought, it continues with freedom of speech, and it ends up with freedom of belief… freedom of belief is… freedom of everything. What they want is very dangerous.

You obviously haven’t got the guts to admit the obvious. But, that’s not my problem.

No, ILC, I came to this blog looking for informed discussion of issues from a conservative viewpoint. What I saw out of many of those who regularly comment here is “insults and condescension” and a view that all liberals are the enemy. The “crap” was here, I did not bring it, though I admit I do often respond in kind. So, ILC, if you want the crap cut, address your concerns to those who crap the most.

“By the way, what is your hangup?”

Bruce, the words used by some on here to describe liberals and liberal views show clearly who the ones are with hangups. “Enemy” is a polite word compared to others that have been used here.

I’m going to second the above comments. I’m a prime example of what Sean A calls “wrong on some things”. I’m actually not a conservative at all. I refuse the label. I’m practically a liberal, on social issues. I was a Democrat for the better part of 2 decades, before wising up and going Independent. On economic issues, I am no conservative either: I am a radical for laissez-faire capitalism. I think our economy and society should be drastically different than they are. There are issues where I agree with people on this blog and issues where I don’t.

And on foreign policy issues, because some of the people who visit here think we should be out of Iraq, or should never have gone in. I don’t think that. But if they speak with civility and can put a sentence together, I will express my disagreements with them in like fashion.

You, by contrast, come to this blog with an attitude based on insults and condescension, and at times, try to talk out of both sides of your mouth. So, I give you more of a “takedown” attitude – while still keeping it clean. But, long story short, this is an open blog and (once again) you would do well to cut the crap.

As for Sullivan: He, like me (but in very different ways), is no conservative. I know he likes to think he’s one. I know he likes to say he’s one. But if it “thinks” like a liberal, quacks like a liberal, never says a thing that isn’t designed to tell liberals what they already believe they “know” and would want to hear (aka pandering)… it’s a liberal.

By the way, what is your hangup? “Enemy”.. “Goose-stepping”?

Methinks you are projecting.

I don’t think Sully is an enemy… he is just wrong on a lot of things.

What is YOUR problem?

Sure they can. It just means they’re right on “some things” and wrong on “others.”

2nd time I’ve seen Sullivan critisized on here. So, it’s not only liberals that are your enemy, but anyone who doesn’t think exactly like you, and no one can be conservative on some things and liberal on others?

Dang, there’s that vision of goose-stepping again.

I’m a liberal and I’m opposed to the oppression and killings of gays in Iran (anywhere for that matter, actually) as well as in Cuba

I can’t believe it. Kevin finally learned something, after 2-3 long years.

What I came to say: It’s not just that gay groups are silent on the prosecution/persecution of gays in other lands. It’s that so many gays are downright oblivious to it. Today’s exhibit: An article by Dale Carpenter in the B.A.R., The Democrats’ Choice: A Hope for Audacity. It begins:

Who’s better for gay equality, Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama?

Never mind that Carpenter dismisses Obama’s documented association with anti-gay ministers, such as the Rev. James T. Meeks. or ignores Obama’s documented refusal to have his photo taken with “controversial” SF Mayor Gavin Newsom. My point lies elsewhere. My point is that it never crosses Carpenter’s mind, at least in this article, that McCain could be best for gay equality because equality starts with gays not being killed or imprisoned, and McCain would stand up the most against the countries who do that, and for America. That possibility doesn’t even get a passing mention.

The column appears is labelled “Out Right”. I am not sure why, because the views Carpenter expresses have nothing to doing with a conservative approach, nor for that matter with actual, day-to-day gay equality in this world. I don’t know much of Carpenter’s other work. Could he be one of those writers who, like Andrew Sullivan, claims a conservative identity but always panders to liberals?

The web-sites for the Human Rights Campaign (HRC) and the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force (NGLTF) offer no commentary on these prosecutions.

But how can this be?

On Tuesday Joe of Joe.My.God covered the NGLTF’s New York Leadership Awards and proclaimed that the NGLTF was “an organization that has fought loudly and fiercely for all our LGBT brothers and sisters.”

Joe stated how proud he was to have Matt Foreman, the NGLTF’s outgoing executive director, as a friend. How could Foreman allow his organization to so badly fail his good buddy Joe?

I think Joe’s post gives us the needed clue. Foreman felt the need to defend his legacy:

Speaking to critics who complain of “mission creep” in LGBT orgs, Foreman avowed that abortion rights are a gay issue and that racism is a gay issue and he pledged that after his departure the Task Force will continue to work with a broad coalition of progressive groups towards fairness and equality.

Perhaps if I had your empirical judgment and moral clarity I could FINALLY decide where I stand on this issue! If only I had an ounce of the awesome bravery exemplified by liberals–being “AGAINST” the murder of gays simply for being gay. Wow. Breathtaking. I’m sure those dead, gay, Iranian teenagers appreciate it and can’t thank you enough for your principled “opposition.” And if they were here, I’m sure they would also admire the liberals’ (and I’m guessing, your) unequivocal opposition to the Bush Administration and its criminal, imperialistic efforts to stop Iran’s nuclear program. (Bush, is, afterall, just trying to turn Iran into his “next Iraq.”) I mean, I’m sure they didn’t want to die, but they knew as well as anyone–the law’s the law. Even as they were standing in the gallows, I’m sure they found peace knowing that liberals “opposed” their murders, but only because they knew the same liberals wouldn’t dream of allowing the U.S. to dishonor their memories by daring to question their proud nation’s judgment when it comes to proliferating weapons of mass destruction. I’m sure in their final moments, those kids were thinking, “It’s too late for the liberals to save me, but at least they can save Ahmadinejad’s nuclear program.”

The one I’ve heard ring the alarm about treatment of gays in Islamic countries is Doug Ireland. I haven’t bothered to check his political views so I don’t know if he’s acceptable to the ones on here who can’t look past labels but here’s the link. Right now he’s talking about Italy but as I said he often speaks of the Middle Eastern countries where we are mistreated so badly. That’s one thing about many of the conservative Christian groups is that they make their readers aware of what happens in the more oppressive countries. Too bad we couldn’t follow their example.

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