Further, with respect, you’ve made excuses for Wright and the racism he holds. Maybe he isn’t that bad of a guy. From his own mouth, however, he asked God to DAMN America. There’s NO excuse for that. He rants on with anti-Semitic comments. There’s NO excuse for that. He rants on with condemnation, not only of whites in America but elsewhere. There’s NO excuse for that. There is ZERO excuse I can think of for any Christian to incite such hatred amongst his flock.

You can spin it, excuse it and contextualize it into whatever the hell makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside. But make no mistake, Wright is a hate monger. If he wasn’t, he wouldn’t make the comments he has made. He didn’t “misspeak”. He said what was on his mind and in his heart. There’s not a damn thing you could tell me to convince me that he doesn’t hate whites and Jews. What’s more, there are a lot of veterans out there who have a strong hatred for this country. John F.You Kerry is a prime example. Yeah, it’s great that he served. Still doesn’t change the fact that he’s an asshole.

End of story.

Regarding Rev. Wright’s retirement home, that is actually a parsonage owned by the church. It will be sold, with the money returned to the congregation, when Rev. Wright dies.

Translation: Rev. Wright SAID YES to living in a rich, white-ish, gated community.

Jeffrey Lord, a fellow UCC member, has written a number of critical articles on Obama in the American Spectator magazine. Mr. Lord used to be a policy adviser to Ronald Reagan.

I would love to see people from his church call him out for being the very thing he falsely claims … a lying divisive politician

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WynLgJFBxSs

I don’t want to argue with anyone.

*Anyone*? Not even terrorists, or people who would destroy America or kill your family? (BTW, if you meant me: I’m not arguing with you, just putting quotes and facts on the record.)

I thank God we have ministers who make us squirm and feel uncomfortable.

Unfortunately, Wright fails to do that. His claims are too grotesque or obviously false. Rhetoric is like any other means of power; when you go overboard, you render it powerless.

I again encourage you to further explore the UCC and Rev. Wright. As a church, the UCC has done enormous good for the LGBT community. It was the UCC which created PFLAG and fought bravely for marriage equality in Massachusetts. It was the UCC that wrote the famous “Serenity Prayer” and it was the UCC which paid the bail for MLK in Birmingham. Our ministers are a exasperating group, but they certainly make us think.

Peace and Blessings!

“The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a 3 Strikes law, and then wants us to sing ‘God Bless America’? No, no, no! Not ‘God Bless America’! God Damn America! That’s in the Bible for killing innocent people. God Damn America, for treating her citizens as less than human… [ed: and on]

Two things stand out:
1) The absurd falseness of half of Wright’s claims.
2) The use of “God damn America” as an invocation, explicitly and intentionally following the model of what people normally say, “God bless America”.

May God bless the United States of America!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rev. Wright most certainly did not call upon God to damn anyone

“God bless America” is a frequently used invocation. It is the short form of “I sure hope God will bless America”, or “I hereby call upon God to bless America”.

*In context*, Wright offered a contrasting “God damn America” as a direct analogy. “In context*, therefore, Wright was offering an invocation, the short form of “I sure hope God will damn America”, or “I hereby call upon God to damn America”.

Not “its government”. And shouted, three times, for emphasis. Kindly wake up to that.

I think you should read the full sermon from which that sound byte was derived. Rev. Wright most certainly did not call upon God to damn anyone — he called for God to condemn a government which stands for injustice.

And yes, I agree that America has made enormous contributions towards the advancement of democracy. However, it is still true that in the 300 years African-Americans have been in this country, only in the last 60 have there not been laws which deprive them of equal protection under the law.

I encourage you to read Rev. Wright’s sermons in their entirety. It may very well change how you view the man.

Peace and Blessings!!

I watch Rev. Wright and I don’t see the racism you decry.

Yes, I agree that we have established that.

He most certainly criticizes those in power (many of them Caucasian) but that is clearly within the Christian tradition.

I agree 100%. But, are absurdly-false accusations and “God Damn America” also within the Christian tradition? I dare say they aren’t. Anyway, it’s a different question.

Remember, Wright lives in a State that has spent tens of thousands of lives in the last 160 years, and a Nation that has spent hundreds of thousands of lives, to end slavery and to free people throughout the world. Not to enslave Wright or anybody.

[Wright's military record] does speak to his commitment to our country and his patriotism.

Yes, his past commitment. His earlier patriotism, which later he renounced when he publicly screamed for God to condemn America.

I think two people can watch a sermon and get two very different things from it. I watch Rev. Wright and I don’t see the racism you decry. Rev. Wright answers to a conference minister who is a white woman. Much of the mission work he does outside his congregation is directed towards the largely Caucasian UCC denomination. He most certainly criticizes those in power (many of them Caucasian) but that is clearly within the Christian tradition.

Rev. Wright, remember, volunteered for Vietnam not once but twice. His first tour of duty was with the Marines, his second with the Navy. He gave up a student deferment to join the military and received three commendations for his work there (including one from LBJ). Of course, this does not immunize him from criticism but it does speak to his commitment to our country and his patriotism.

Regarding Rev. Wright’s retirement home, that is actually a parsonage owned by the church. It will be sold, with the money returned to the congregation, when Rev. Wright dies. I can’t defend the personal decisions made by members at Trinity, but apparently an affluent member decided to donate to this purpose. I could think of much better uses for my money, but then again I don’t blame Trinity members for wanting to take care of the minister who gave much of his life to this church.

I also appreciate your thoughtful responses. Thank you for joining this debate!

Thirdly, I would suggest that Wright’s criticism of our government is well within our democratic tradition.

How fascinating that “God Damn America!”, shouted not once but three times to incite a congregation, could seriously pass for “criticism of our government” with some people.

He has a very tenuous grasp on science. And yet, I don’t believe there is malice in these statements.

Kindly explain how accusing our country falsely, emotionally and stupidly – i.e., without evidence – but nonetheless vehemently, could *not* be coming from a state/place of malice. It’s so far beyond the “distrust” you attempt to cite. Can’t you see that? David, what have you been smoking all these years?

Regarding Trinity’s racism towards Caucasians you’ll have to provide me some more evidence of that.

Its top pastor for 20 years would rant on and on about the evil of the “white church”, what “rich white people” are up to, etc. What would you think of a Church, David, where the top (white) pastor ranted on and on for 20 years about the evil of the “black church”, what the world’s “rich black people” are up to, etc.? Think there might be some racism there?

Add hypocrisy to the list of Wright’s sins, of course, because now he lives in a multi-million dollar home in a rich, gated white neighborhood.

Thanks for your kind answers.

You’re jumping from one issue to another so fast I can’t keep up.

Hopefully, the information you read about the UCC’s proposed plan on Israeli divestment was up to date. The UCC never went through divestment due to internal opposition. It was debated upon at a general synod and was later defeated. It came about during the same time the Presbyterian and United Methodist churches were also considering divestment. The UCC, does however, engage in “targeted investment” in the middle east in an effort to further the peace process. We are, though, talking about a VERY small amount of the UCC’s budget. Member congregations take in about $1B a year from their members. From that amount, about $30M is passed on to the national church. From that $30M, perhaps $3M is used for these purposes. It is the literal drop in the bucket.

Regarding Trinity’s racism towards Caucasians you’ll have to provide me some more evidence of that. I’ve known a number of white people from my congregation here in California that have visited Trinity UCC and they all uniformly report that it was a positive experience. The conference minister for Illinois, a middle-aged white woman, is a member of Trinity UCC. Additionally, the larger denomination that Trinity is within is overwhelmingly white (with its largest concentration in New England). And yet, Trinity has generously given millions of dollars to support the mission activities of this denomination.

Well that seals it for me. Christians are bound by morals and the Bible to support the Jewish people, especially in their struggle to remain secure in their homeland.

I have contempt for all forms of Anti-Zionism.

Genesis 12:1 Now the Lord said to Abram, “Go out from your country, your relatives, and your father’s household to the land that I will show you. Then I will make you into a great nation, and I will bless you, and I will make your name great, so that you will exemplify divine blessing. I will bless those who bless you,
but the one who treats you lightly I must curse”

God Bless Israel and the US.

I dont recall a tradition of preaching blantant lies of the most vile kind about the nation .

He calls nothing into account for many many things never have happened. The United States did not invent HIV and then go around infecting with it. Nor did they sell drugs in teh cities. Nor is the Govt a faction of a white conspiracy to oppress whites.

Does any of this do anyone any good? How’d you like to be a white person in that church and hear the vile anti-white bigotry coming from the preacher man?

No wonder Michelle Obama is a bitter , broken person. listen to what she feeds her soul with.

I know you’re not responsible Dave but cmon. If we demand the Muslims to restrain thier extremists then as Christians we need to do the same and reject it when preachers tell LIES (not criticisms.. LIES) about the country.

Do you think God looks appovingly on as lies lies lies are being screamed at the top of the lungs of a maniac preacher?

I’m sure that is appropriate in other churches. In the UCC, there is no mechanism for this. The national church, based in Cleveland, is entirely powerless over its member congregations. All authority is vested in the local congregation. The association (a local group of congregations) may remove the ministerial standing of a pastor, but only with the approval of the larger conference. Even with this, however, a pastor can remain at the congregation which has chosen him. He simply loses his church pension and health insurance.

Regarding the Cathedral of Hope — first, the accusations of financial impropriety have largely been dismissed with a further audit. Secondly, this happened before the Cathedral of Hope joined the UCC. The audit was requested by the UCC before the congregation joined the denomination.

Like I mentioned in a previous post, the UCC spans all political affiliations. Our members include Barrack Obama and Jeffrey Lord (Ronald Reagan’s policy adviser). We have 10 members in the US House — 5 Democrats and 5 Republicans.