Operation Chaos Works in Keystone State
As I am about to retire this evening, Hillary Clinton has won Pennsylvania and is nurturing a 9% lead and about a 150,000 vote margin — which has increased by 50,000 in the past hour.  Being a Pennsylvania native I know a lot about the state, and I observe that MANY of the rural counties (including a couple of the Philly burbs) aren’t reporting all results yet. I suspect Hillary will top 10%, if not more once all the votes are counted.
In any case, the big winner aside from Hillary is America’s Anchorman — Rush Limbaugh. His “Operation Chaos” has kept the Democratic race going and this thing is far from over without serious rifts in the party. As Hillary said today about Obama…
Speaking to reporters in Conshohocken, Pa., today, Clinton rejected that common argument, saying “a win is a win.”
“But maybe I’m old fashioned about that. But you run a very competitive race at a considerable financial disadvantage. I think maybe the question ought to be why can’t he close the deal?”
By the way, Michael Barone’s excellent analysis of the Democratic primary race — Jacksonians vs. Academics — definitely rings more true with Hillary’s Pennsylvania victor this evening.
Now… North Carolina, my new home state, is looking more and more like THE KEY battleground especially if Hillary winds up winning Indiana (which is up next).
Operation Chaos moves to the TarHeel State!
-Bruce (GayPatriot)
60 Comments »
RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI
Awesome!
Although, I’d like to see if folks were more inspired by Operation Chaos or if the “bitter” churls were voting more against Snobama.
BTW, Rush was saying the other day not to vote early in NC because “your vote may not count”. I didn’t catch the reason why. Do you know?
Comment by ThatGayConservative — April 23, 2008 @ 12:17 am - April 23, 2008
I don’t see why Operation Chaos is at all necessary at this point. The Democrats are doing enough fighting amongst themselves to keep the chaos going.
Comment by David — April 23, 2008 @ 1:44 am - April 23, 2008
[...] Operation Chaos Works in Keystone State [...]
Pingback by GayPatriot » Hillary Wins Ugly in Keystone State — April 23, 2008 @ 3:00 am - April 23, 2008
Good for rural Pennsylvanias! They did not take kindly to being called gunslingin, bible totin’ dummies….. The elitist inner person is creeping out and we are seeing Obama for what he is….. I am not a Hillary fan whatsoever but most of the voter registration changes in PA will go back to the Republican side for the November election.
Comment by PatriotMom — April 23, 2008 @ 7:47 am - April 23, 2008
Obama’s losses in Philly’s suburban Bucks and Montgomery counties lend support to the Clintonistas’ claim that he can’t carry “traditional” Democratic counties and states needed to win in a General Election. And he failed to carry Pittsburgh or Erie which are typically Democratic in National or State-wide elections.
Now it’s an all-out cat-fight straight through to the Convention (and maybe afterwards) that’s going to bleed both candidates dry for the General Election in November: good news for McCain. Now if he can just avoid screwing up…..
Comment by Ted B. (Charging Rhino) — April 23, 2008 @ 12:17 pm - April 23, 2008
I’ve heard some of the initial numbers on registration changes and they are pretty alarming if true. If anyone is unlucky enough to hear some Obamoid whining about such shenanigans you may confidently assert that the Left and Dems have also engaged in this chicanery, just without success. While the Chaotisists are certainly a tiny fraction of the electorate, we see that it does have tactical effects at the margins. Sure, Hil would have won PA, but by 10? No way. It is a perfect strike from Rush, just splitting the pins. Of course this project depends upon stealth of a sort. Tactically we DO NOT want this thing publicized as it would taint Hillary with the stink of Rightwing Freaks. Though we would have tainted Barry just as happily. But right now it is as if Rush were invisibly in the ring without gloves lightly swatting whomever is momentarily in the lead and propping up whichever one takes a stinger. Luckily the MSMers are in our camp on this. They could never entertain the notion that Rush can effect elections, especially Dem primaries. Horrors! It does not compute. We’ll have to wait for the Lefty books after the election for the V-8 moment.
Comment by megapotamus — April 23, 2008 @ 1:09 pm - April 23, 2008
I can’t imagine voting in another party’s primary for a candidate I would not vote for in the general election. I’m sure there are Democrats who have done just that, but that would cause ethical problems for me. Limbaugh being devoid of ethics can encourage people to do that though. I’m not outraged. Mostly I’m amused that Republicans are that afraid of running against Obama in November. See you at the inaugural!
Comment by Houndentenor — April 23, 2008 @ 1:27 pm - April 23, 2008
I voted for Hillary in Ohio.
I don’t think he’s making a huge impact in the election, though. The states that his operation was staged in, Ohio, Texas, and Penn, were states that would have naturally supported Hillary without Republican help.
Comment by Mitchell Blatt (Links to Another Obama Bashing Piece) — April 23, 2008 @ 3:37 pm - April 23, 2008
I’ve Republican friends yesterday who proudly sported their Clinton stickers on thier chests. In my district I had state and federal open seats so I didn’t change my registration. It is weird to contemplate election schcanerey…though Dems have done it for generations. A lot of women I talk to just don’t want to see Hillary embarrassed and defeated even if they don’t support her policies. It’s hard to fault them. We should have had a viable female candidate by now.
Comment by Gene in Pennsylvania — April 23, 2008 @ 7:39 pm - April 23, 2008
OMG, Houndie. It is called *democracy*. You know, that thing where ordinary people go out and make their voices heard, by that new-fangled “voting”, and whatever means are legal?
I knew many leftists love to confuse issues, are secretly fascists at heart, and love dictators… but Houndie’s comments are a new low!
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — April 23, 2008 @ 8:56 pm - April 23, 2008
“America’s Anchorman — Rush Limbaugh”
If he is America’s anchorman then America is dead
“OMG, Houndie. It is called *democracy*.”
No actually it’s called politics, that’s not the same as democracy. Nothing new for either party but disgusting no matter who does it and it’s one way that makes sure that the people’s voice is never truly heard.
“Houndie’s comments are a new low!”
If low means pointing out the truth then for this site yes it’s a new low.
Comment by Dave — April 23, 2008 @ 9:14 pm - April 23, 2008
Translation (to English, from the original Dave B.S.): I have a point. LOL
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — April 23, 2008 @ 9:25 pm - April 23, 2008
And as regards the practice of the people going out and voting that I referenced, Dave says this:
So, the people going out and voting to make their voice heard, ensures the people’s voice is never heard. Thanks for that 1984 moment, Dave!
Always remember, folks: War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength.
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — April 23, 2008 @ 9:28 pm - April 23, 2008
The MSM is so dense. The excitment about the hundreds of thousands of registration changes is constantly portrayed as defections from the Republican ranks. Let me get this straight…we have the most liberal Republican nominee in years, Sen McCain, the maverick, and Republicans are so dissatisfied that they are switching to the Dems to vote for 1. One of the hated Clintons or 2. the most liberal Senator in Congress. Again the MSM is really dense. People have switched registration to vote against the hated Clintons to finally remove them from the national scene. Or to switch parties to vote Obama as their nominee who we just knew the nation didn’t know anything about. We knew with the internet, the nation would know the truth about this candidate eventually.
Comment by Gene in Pennsylvania — April 23, 2008 @ 9:48 pm - April 23, 2008
Houndentenor speaks of politics in #7 and then inserts the concept of ethics. What a stunning idea.
It seems that cross over voting, in his view, is unethical. OK. How about a political party working to keep military absentee ballots from being counted in the Florida 2000 recount. Ethical or unethical? How about a political party in Florida in 2000 claiming the butterfly ballot its own members constructed and approved being challenged by that same political party as too confusing for its own voters after they were too dumb to make it work? Ethical or unethical? How about a political party in 2000 in Florida fighting to restrict the recount to only those counties they lost by narrow margins? Ethical or unethical? How about a political party creating voter intimidation out of whole cloth in the Florida 2000 election? Ethical or unethical? How about a political party dominated Supreme Court in Florida in 2000 ordering the Secretary of State to ignore the Florida law and to act according to their directions as if they had the power to rewrite law? Ethical or unethical.
I await elucidation on this pronouncement. “Devoid” is such a high standard, that I will accept just three (3) obvious, unescapable examples.
Comment by heliotrope — April 23, 2008 @ 11:08 pm - April 23, 2008
Legal crossover voting is, again, known among normal/sane people as “participatory democracy”.
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — April 23, 2008 @ 11:14 pm - April 23, 2008
Too damn funny:
And then:
C’mon guys! You know that the liberals don’t give a damn about your “voice”. That’s why you have Super Delegates because they don’t want the ignorant masses to determine who the candidate will be. That’s why they can tell Michigan and Florida to shove it sideways. It ain’t up to you. You’re wasting time, gas and money spooging for these ass clown liberals who hold you in the highest contempt.
Talk about “devoid of ethics”. Get over yourself, grab your balls and go on about your business.
Comment by ThatGayConservative — April 24, 2008 @ 4:12 am - April 24, 2008
Actually, if he were America’s anchorman, America would be a great deal more accurately informed than it is by the liberal “mainstream” media anchors.
Comment by American Elephant — April 24, 2008 @ 4:42 am - April 24, 2008
ILC #13, it is you who is using 1984 style doublespeak – switching parties temporarily in order to cast a vote for the sole purpose of attempting to warp the results of that parties primary is not just going out to make your voice heard, it is blatant political manipulation of the process and results in the voices of the “real” Democrats being overriden. To attempt to justify it and in fact celebrate it’s use simply betrays the disdain that Rush, and all those clueless people who lick up his vomit on a daily basis, have for the USA and it’s political process. It places those who proclaim far and wide that they are better than the Democrats and their sleazy actions in the exact same bucket of slime. Y’all deserve each other but in the process you are destroying a great country.
TGC #17
Liberals don’t have superdelegates, Democrats do. Liberals didn’t say a thing to Florida and Michigan, Democrats did. Liberals and Democrats are not one and the same. Because you personally can’t function without a party boss to tell you when to stand up, or sit down, or go to the bathroom, does not mean that all conservatives or liberals are like you. Thankfully that is not true, many of us can think for ourselves.
Maybe if you take your hand off your balls and whatever else you hold while thinking about how evil liberals are you might get a clearer picture.
Comment by Dave — April 24, 2008 @ 8:35 am - April 24, 2008
Let’s see. The process here would be the political process. So! We find that we have “blatant” political manipulation of the political process. Horrors!!!!
Should I believe that liberals stew over whether to vote for the Republican candidate?
There you go, again! Perchance you might briefly outline the sacred political process you so reverently honor. (I’m sorry you liberals are stuck with Bill Moyers. It would be wonderful if you had a dynamic promoter of ideas to help raise you from your torpor and morbid state of mind.)
Comment by heliotrope — April 24, 2008 @ 10:16 am - April 24, 2008
For years, I’ve been hearing Democrats talking about how they vote in the Republican primary in order to influence things.. Suddenly all of a sudden, this year, it’s “disgusting” to this. Yeah sure.
Leftists are the biggest hypocrites in the nation, and the biggest cry-babies.
Comment by Vince P — April 24, 2008 @ 10:54 am - April 24, 2008
In Pennsylvania just 6 years ago liberals rejoiced at the crossover when Arlen Spector defeated Toomey in the Republican primary. Funny I didn’t hear too much complaining at the time. Most of the media crowed about the creative use of democracy. Today on Hardball, Matthews and his panel were giggling about Hillarys use of tactics to bring down Obama. “She’s the best pol around, Barack could learn from her onhow to be tough”, Matthews said. When Democrats do it, it shows how smart and tactical they are. When Republicans do the same, it’s dirty politics and un democratic. waaaaaaaw
Comment by Gene in Pennsylvania — April 24, 2008 @ 10:32 pm - April 24, 2008
That may have been true 20 years ago, but it’s not today. The DNC is run by liberals and so are Snobama and Hillary (both liberals). If you didn’t have balls bouncing in your eyes, you’d see that.
Comment by ThatGayConservative — April 25, 2008 @ 4:00 am - April 25, 2008
#15
If I may add:
Paying voter registrars with crack cocaine. Ethical or unethical?
Slashing tires of rented vehicles to bring voters to the polls. Ethical or unethical?
Vandalizing and shooting Bush campaign offices. Ethical or unethical?
Registering the dead and fictional as voters. Ethical or unethical?
Campaigning for the convicted felon vote. Ethical or unethical?
Driver’s licenses for illegal immigrants so they can vote democrat. Ethical or unethical?
Shall I go on?
Comment by ThatGayConservative — April 25, 2008 @ 7:56 am - April 25, 2008
TGC, I know you’re not stupid and are certainly able to comprehend that all liberals are not democrats so why do you play stupid?
As far as your list of right wing myths about sleazy tactics by Democrats, do you have one shred of proof that comes from a non-Swift Boat style source? And are you really naive enough to think that the party you worship has not done the same kind of things?
What’s disgusting Vince is that it was an organized effort instigated by a shining example of the rot that has infected the USA and is slowly influencing good people and destroying any sense of integrity and civility in this country. But since he and the rest of the media whores who populate right wing radio and press are among those whose words many of you live and breath by you are simply unable to see it. Certainly they have their counterparts on the left who are equally as dangerous but they have not managed to attract the awestruck, braindead followers who will do as they are ordered without questioning. Limbaugh, Malkin, Coulter and Savage to name a few – these are the folks who represent as great a threat to democracy and a free United States as the rabid forces of radical Islam.
Conservatism may have once been a voice of reason and discipline, now, as practised by many and sadly many on here, it is nothing more than one more voice of hate in a world that has enough already.
Comment by Dave — April 25, 2008 @ 9:53 am - April 25, 2008
This just shows your derangement and how extensive your hate of conservatives is.
Yes.. your derangement.
Comment by Vince P — April 25, 2008 @ 1:26 pm - April 25, 2008
As far as your list of right wing myths about sleazy tactics by Democrats, do you have one shred of proof that comes from a non-Swift Boat style source?
Absolutely.
And furthermore, what I find amusing is that Dave considers people exercising a) their right to choose party affiliation, b) their right to participate in primary elections, and c) vote is now “disgusting”.
Comment by North Dallas Thirty — April 25, 2008 @ 2:03 pm - April 25, 2008
Vince, the evil idol of the right, Rush Limbaugh, dreams of a riot at the Dem convention. Point proven, hate rules the man’s mind and those who follow him share the guilt.
ND30, I find it ridiculous that you think it’s cute and witty to act totally ignorant and misrepresent my statements. A worn out tactic of the right, try something new you might show that you can say something of value. I will check out your link though. Glad at least someone on here can back up their rants.
Comment by Dave — April 25, 2008 @ 3:16 pm - April 25, 2008
I dream of a riot too.
It’s only the Leftist Democrat freaks who can make it happen. Blame them.
Comment by Vince P — April 25, 2008 @ 3:54 pm - April 25, 2008
Well, I had a long post that I made out earlier and it disapered. Dan says it’s not in the filter. Now about your point:
I don’t believe and have never said that all democrats are liberals. However, it’s clear that liberals are in charge of the DNC. There are few, if any real Democrats left that I can think of. There was Joe Lieberman, but you guys ran him off because he’s Jewish and supports the Iraq Campaign.
And that’s why I use a lower case D. There’s a slew of people who call themselves democrats, but they’re nowhere near being real Democrats.
As I said, I had a long post with links to each story. I won’t go back and find the links. If you want to call the NYT, CNN, Local 6 in Orlando, USA Today etc. Swift Boat style sources, that’s up to you. Suffice it to say, those stories were common knowledge. Perhaps liberals want to pretend they didn’t happen and suffer from selective amnesia, but they did happen.
The voter registrar paid in crack was tied to the NAACP. He was registering dead and fictional people. One of the Bush campaign offices that was vandalized was in Orlando. The liberal fucktards responsible for that rushed in, while it was still open, and trashed the place injuring two. There was another vandalism in Tennessee, I think, and the vandal shot up the place. Fortunately, it was closed. The four kids who slashed the tires of rented vehicles to carry voters to the polls was in Michigan, I think, and two of the kids were sons of a democrat judge or local councilman or something.
I’m willing to bet that they haven’t because they’re not as debased as liberals are. If they did, I’d condemn it. However, it’s pretty damn stupid of you to try to excuse it because, supposedly, Republicans have done the same thing. What kind of irresponsible idiot plays that game?
Let’s pretend that Republicans have done that. Guess we shouldn’t expect any better from democrats then? Surely your momma taught you better. I suppose you’re not stupid, so why do you play stupid?
BTW, I have never WORSHIPED the Republican party.
Comment by ThatGayConservative — April 25, 2008 @ 4:38 pm - April 25, 2008
You said right after you totally misrepresented Rush Limbaugh’s statement. Tell me, did you hear him say that or did Media Morons tell you that’s what he said?
From VtheK:
I’ll raise a pint to that!
Comment by ThatGayConservative — April 25, 2008 @ 4:43 pm - April 25, 2008
Dave, please take a quiet moment to ruminate on these points.
Rush Limbaugh is a free agent in an open market. He sells what he says. People buy it. The many, many, many radio stations that would love to go head to head with Rush during his three hours of domination would dearly love for his liberal counterpart to enter the ring. There is gold to be mined in a match-up.
Hollywood is awash with liberals who make huge money making movies with all manner of liberal themes. Newspapers are overrun with liberal reporters, columnists and editors. The networks are overpopulated with trained and preened liberal talkers and pundits.
Why, then, is there no liberal competition to Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, Savage, Ingraham, Levin, Reagan, Boortz, et al?
I suspect that with all the talent available from Hollywood, The New York Times, NBC and the rest, that the problem lies with the fact that the liberal “message” simply does not resinate. Is that because we conservatives are all knuckle-dragging droolers who need to be cared for by the elite?
Now, of what specific lies, deceits, hate speech, bigotry, and powerful sins are you accusing Limbaugh?
Here is something to consider carefully. Rush Limbaugh openly provides transcripts and audio copies of his broadcasts. He carefully documents his sources. He is a freshman fact checker’s dream. (I might also note that Anne Coulter footnotes her books for sources.) So your job of being specific in your charges should be as easy as it gets.
Bring them on. (Please don’t unleash the sounds of crickets.)
Comment by heliotrope — April 25, 2008 @ 6:15 pm - April 25, 2008
Here are the rankings for Talk Radio
Place / Audience in Millions / Show
1 – 14 Rush
2 – 13 Hannity
3 – 8.25 Savage , Dr Laura
5 – 6.5 Beck
6 – 5.25 Ingraham, Mark Levin
8 – 4 Mike Gallagher, Michael Medved
10 – 3.25 Jim Bohannon, Clark Howard, Bill OReilly, Doug Stephan
14 – 3 Bill Bennett, Jerry Doyle, George Noory, Ed Schultz
18 – 2.25 Rusty Humphries, Kim Komando, Lars Larson, Jim Rome
22 – 1.75 Bob Brinker, Tom Leykis, Mancow
25 – 1.5 Dr Joy Browne, Alan Columes, Thom Hartmann, Hugh Hewitt, Lionel, G Gordon Liddy, Dennis Miller, Stephanie Miller, Randi Rhodes
34 – 1 Dr Dean Edell, Bill Handel , Michael Reagan
8
On this list I recognize the following Leftists:
Ed Schultz, Alan Colmes, Lionel, Randi Rhodes (goodbye!)
That’s it just four (that I recongnized)
Comment by Vince P — April 25, 2008 @ 8:26 pm - April 25, 2008
So, Vince P, just how do you suppose the vast right wing conspiracy let all those liberals get on talk radio?
Comment by heliotrope — April 25, 2008 @ 9:25 pm - April 25, 2008
OMG! Comb Over Boy (Leykis) has that many listeners? Lionel is a knuckle-dragger. He used to be on a radio station here until he compared Florida voters to inbred hicks and then when people called him on it, he spun and spun, deflected, and pointed fingers at Republicans. Standard liberal kook fare.
I would have thought Noory/Bell had more listeners. Noory’s pretty cool. I had an e-mail back and forth with him one night when I was bored at work. I was surprised that he answered and that he could e-mail and do the show at the same time.
JimBo is pretty cool too.
One show I can’t stand is Joey Reynolds. That’s the radio version of Seinfeld. It’s supposed to be funny, but isn’t. A group of New Yorkers talking about absolutely nothing, bitching about NY and then talk about how much they love it. I could listen to cement dry and be more entertained. Guess it’s 3 hours worth of filler so the stations don’t have dead air at night.
Comment by ThatGayConservative — April 26, 2008 @ 2:54 am - April 26, 2008
I listen to NPR, Savage, Beck, Ingraham, Mark Levin,
Michael Medved. Hugh Hewitt, Dennis Miller and Dennis Prager (not listed)
Comment by Vince P — April 26, 2008 @ 3:08 am - April 26, 2008
“Is that because we conservatives are all knuckle-dragging droolers”
One look at the top three rankings list lends much validity to your statement. The fact that the message of these people “resonates” with that many millions is exactly why they are so dangerous to civilization. And it is exactly the idea that folks on here listen to them that convinces me that the “gay conservative” as represented on this blog is ultimatly a self-hating individual with suicidal tendencies. Which you are indeed free to be but to do so while declaring yourselves patriots and conservatives and superior to the left is laughable. You are drinking poison from the most toxic of sources and will eventually pay the price. Should your allies be successful in their evil attempts at world domination it will be your bodies that they throw on top of ours to pave the way.
Comment by Dave — April 26, 2008 @ 3:16 pm - April 26, 2008
Wow Dave.. for someone , like yourself, to purportedly be against bigotry and stereotyping, you sure do resort to it when the mood hits you.. and you do so in such a stereotypical way!
You didn’t even have to think to write that comment did you ? All you had to do is was pull the level on the Cliched Leftist Tirade phrase generator.
Wow.. what a valuable contribution you have made! If it wasn’t for your assemblage of those words, then I would have only heard them about 9793684697896 other times. Thank you for giving me that 9793684697897th experience.
I laugh at your small mind and your inablity to even attempt to substantiate one word of your drivel.
Retard.
Comment by Vince P — April 26, 2008 @ 3:32 pm - April 26, 2008
Holy Buckets!!!! Dave, you are a regular liberal hemorrhoid with no pretensions. You really do loathe and fear the unwashed mobocracy of unenlightened conservatives.
Just to be clear, I am the object of your worst fear and loathing. I am your prototype of the drooling, knuckle dragging idiot conservative. Wouldn’t you just love to sterilize the lot of us?
Please visit often. We need your enlightened view of things to keep our thinking focused.
It is your calling to cast your pearls before swine.
Comment by heliotrope — April 26, 2008 @ 4:38 pm - April 26, 2008
Dave, my request in #32 still stands. Hand me Rush Limbaugh’s head on the platter of of your brilliant deduction and clear logic. I earnestly beg to be humiliated.
Comment by heliotrope — April 26, 2008 @ 6:36 pm - April 26, 2008
Obama is a liar:
Obama is criticizing McCain’s proposal for a summertime federal gas tax holiday.
Quote:
“This is one of John McCain’s latest schemes,†Obama said, saying it would save drivers only $25. “That’s the federal highway fund that we use to build our roads and our bridges, you remember that bridge in Minneapolis? We’re already short on money in terms of investing – and for what – for 25 bucks?â€
However back in 2000 , when Gas prices were high for their time, the State of Illinois Legislature had before it a bill which proposed the same sort of state tax holiday.
Obama was asked if he supported the Illinois tax holiday
Quote:
Obama replied, “Well, actually there was a vote in the state senate that I opposed. I voted against a moratorium on the gas tax for the same reason that I don’t think it’s the best approach for us to take right now.â€
However, if you look at the Senate roll call vote , Obama clearly voted for the tax break.
Here is the press release describing the bill Senate Bill 1310
http://www.illinois.gov/PressReleases/ShowPressRelease.cfm?RecNum=871&SubjectID=50
Here is the recorded vote for the bill in the IL Senate:
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/votehistory/srollcalls91/pdf/910SB1310_03082000_001000T.PDF
This guy is such a liar and a fruad.
There was an amendment to that bill that would require gas stations to put a sign on the pumps telling customers that the state tax was repealed.
According to the State of Illinois General Assembly Senate Transcript, Obama asks the author of the amendment:
“I was wondering, can I – in my district, can I have “Senator Obama reduced your gasoline prices”? Is that possible?”
http://www.ilga.gov/senate/transcripts/strans91/ST041500.pdf
Page 81
Comment by Vince P — April 26, 2008 @ 7:15 pm - April 26, 2008
Thank you Vince, your final word in #38 shows that I have not even slightly misjudged you. You show clearly the heart and soul of conservatism as represented on here. There is no need for me to stereotype you, you do it just fine on your own. And it’s very sad.
“You really do loathe and fear the unwashed mobocracy of unenlightened conservatives.”
Yes Heliotrope, I loathe any attitude and action that I consider threatening to the freedom and justice that this country is supposed to represent. It doesn’t take a whole lot of knowledge of world history to see the destruction caused by people who are influenced by “leaders” who are so set on their crusade that anyone or any idea that does not totally conform to their beliefs is an enemy to be eliminated. I see that kind of fanaticism growing in SOME segments of those who call themselves conservative. I see it in those who listen to these radio maniacs without questioning a word they say. I see it in SOME segments of right wing Chistianity, those who view “the world” as evil and envision an “army of the Lord” marching forth to cleanse the nation and the world, I see it when SOME Republican candidates rub elbows with self-styled neo-nazis and white power groups. And I see it in the frothing at the mouth anti-gay organizations, who despite denials by some who post here, have power and influence and have one vision – a world without queers. Do I fear that, what sane person wouldn’t?
I have not and never will say that these represent all conservatives. But when all that I read on many sites including this one is how evil liberals are, how everything they believe is wrong, how they have no morals, ethics or concern for human life, while never once voicing concern about actions of fanatics on the right, I have to wonder are you blind or do you actually support them.
But no, I don’t want anyone sterilized though I have heard that idea presented by some on the right. I don’t advocate anyone being quarantined or marked as diseased, but I’ve heard that from the right. I don’t claim that what I believe is completly correct and everyone else is wrong, but I’ve read that on here. I don’t claim liberals are perfect or superior and I certainly don’t accept or justify everything that is done by those on the left though it has been claimed I do.
I read an intelligent and rational column by Hugh Hewitt over at Townhall, not compromising his conservative beliefs but also not painting all liberals with the same tar gathering up the feathers. It was quite refreshing. Within in minutes the comments section was filling up with rants and raves ripping him apart for not being a rabid dog towards liberals. That is exactly what I am talking about, blind, toxic fanaticism.
As far as giving you evidence about Limbaugh, volumes have been written about his lies, I need not recreate it here. And it would be futile would it not, it’s not like you would believe it. And some of Coulter’s footnotes have been proven to be false references, what a surprise.
Comment by Dave — April 26, 2008 @ 10:07 pm - April 26, 2008
Dave, could you cite just two of the volumes “that have been written about his lies”? (Meaning Rush Limbaugh.) What Coulter “footnotes have been proven to be false references”? I do not doubt you, I am merely curious.
Do you really fear “segments of right wing Chistianity, those who view ‘the world’ as evil and envision an ‘army of the Lord’ marching forth to cleanse the nation and the world”? Where do you run into these people?
Do you know people “who listen to these radio maniacs without questioning a word they say”? This would imply that you carefully listen to the “radio maniacs” and catch them at their lies and then debrief their droids.
You mention “the frothing at the mouth anti-gay organizations, who despite denials by some who post here, have power and influence and have one vision – a world without queers.” Who are these organizations and where could one go observe them?
“… all that I read on many sites including this one is how evil liberals are, how everything they believe is wrong, how they have no morals, ethics or concern for human life….” Are you sure that everything on this site concerns how evil liberals are ? Everything here is about how everything liberals believe is wrong? This site proclaims that liberals have no morals? This site proclaims that liberals have no ethics? This site states that liberals have no concern for human life?
Just askin’.
Comment by heliotrope — April 27, 2008 @ 12:01 am - April 27, 2008
helio: you’re a better man than me.
I simply am bored with the same lame attacks folks like Dave come up with , year after year after year.
They’re so braindead yet act like their omniscient. No wonder they’re so angry.. if I knew everything and nothing I’d be angry too.
Comment by Vince P — April 27, 2008 @ 12:15 am - April 27, 2008
#44, Vince P. Help me out here. In #39 I said Dave is a “a regular liberal hemorrhoid with no pretensions.” I said this out of frustration. I admit that the “anonymity” of the internet allows one to say things he would never say in polite society. I do not know Dave and so I am guilty of projecting.
It appears that Dave is a very fearful homosexual man who has, in my opinion, unreasonable fears of a conservative society. If I am correct, he is fighting inner demons with which I have no experience. To be direct, I wonder if Dave’s demons have so infected his psyche that his fears have taken on pathological dimensions.
I have associated with gays who were so consumed by their sexual orientation and their place in a generally heterosexual setting that they were unable or unwilling to “blend” with the job at hand.
Dave writes of ” blind, toxic fanaticism.” I am inclined to believe that he has accurately labeled his attitude toward Christian fundamentalists, those who oppose gay marriage, conservative talk radio, etc.
I have never been comfortable around liberal gays who are stuck on gay. Therefore, I may not have the temperament to spar with Dave. I may not appreciate the effects of being gay may have on some individuals.
Comment by heliotrope — April 27, 2008 @ 10:17 am - April 27, 2008
Helio: I attribute Dave’s cluelessness and hatred to be a function of the Groupthink that he has mired himself in.
His entire identity is vested in the identity group that he has associated himself with.
Comment by Vince P — April 27, 2008 @ 11:18 am - April 27, 2008
Working backwards – #46 – Vince, that is an excellent self-evaluation but is a ridiculous way to describe me. If I had mired myself in Groupthink then I wouldn’t be bothering at all to read opinions from “the other side”. My identity has little to do with my political/social beliefs and currently the ONLY group I am associating with is the 99.9% heterosexual group of coworkers. I work 10 – 12 hours a day and 1/2 days on weekends so there’s little time to get “mired” in anything else. You say I am clueless because I don’t swallow every word you say. Actually I am totally clued in to what you believe and stand for because I can read, try it sometime. You are correct though in #44, helio is a better man than you, at least on here. What you are off the board could be totally different but one who uses the word “retard” as an insult doesn’t show much class. Do you use faggot, or nigger, or wetback, or paki or any of the other the ignorant labels also?
Comment by Dave — April 27, 2008 @ 11:39 am - April 27, 2008
Dave: Obviously you’re retarded if you think you know me enough to state that I’m self-loathing as you have many times.
Here’s a hint.. if you dont want people to view you with nothing but contempt, it helps if you dont personally attack people because of their political views.
Comment by Vince P — April 27, 2008 @ 11:53 am - April 27, 2008
Helio #45, actually I found your “a regular liberal hemorrhoid with no pretensions” statement quite humorous.
The only thing I “fear” about conservative society is the absolute refusal of the more center/moderate folks to acknowledge the existance of and the danger posed by those on the far right. When their beliefs are minimized or even at times justified it looks suspiciously like acceptance/support. The far right is not at all “conservative” and if those who call themselves such would take a closer look at their allies they would understand that. When radio “personalities” can influence millions of people, when self-appointed “religious” leaders like Dobson, Robertson, Hagee and Parsley have that same power and folks on here justify and or ignore it while shreeking incessantly about Wright and Obama’s other “unsavory” influences it show either a blindess or an active acceptance of the “crusade” of the extreme. I can confidently say that I have never condemned all Christian fundamentalists, those against SSM or conservative talk radio hosts. Your continued inability to understand the word “some” is baffling.
I’m not “stuck on gay” and I live in an almost completely heterosexual environment with no problem, though I honestly believe a more balanced mix would be healthier. Any “inner demons” I have are not at all connected with my beliefs on social and political issues. As a human being I reject the beliefs/actions of those who seek to harm others, who seek to dominate others or who seek to wipe out others. And it matters not at all to me if they do so because of right wing beliefs or left.
I will happily attempt to answer your questions from #43, since they actually are in line with the topic of the article, rather than participate in further analysis of my motives/personality/mental stability. At the moment though, I have a garbage disposal that leaks and stuff to do at my mom’s house that I should have been at before now.
Comment by Dave — April 27, 2008 @ 12:16 pm - April 27, 2008
#48 Vince, you are correct, the basis of political discussion cannot be personal attacks. So, write down what you said, find a mirror and read it to yourself. If need be come back and find all your comments towards “liberal” who post here and really look at them. If you still cannot admit that they are very often simply insults flung at specific people or at liberals in general, then there’s little that can be accomplished. Certainly I don’t know you by anything than what you say on here and I’ve never claimed different. I believe that passive or active support of those who consider you sick, or disordered, or possessed and a threat to civilized society. as a symptom of self-hatred. If you think that doesn’t apply to you then what does it matter what I think? Do you think that they seek to know you as an individual?
Comment by Dave — April 27, 2008 @ 12:56 pm - April 27, 2008
I attack ideas and groups in the abstract.
You were the one who called me very specific things.
Thus , having earned my eminity, I call you a retard.
You’re still retarded. Can’t seperate abstract condemdation from direct personal attack.
And more evidence of your mental impairment is the fact that your personal attacks dont actually require the use of your brain, being so typical of the army of Leftist clones you are a soldier of.
Comment by Vince P — April 27, 2008 @ 1:21 pm - April 27, 2008
You’ll have to point out to me where I singled you out for insult, I’ve looked back and don’t see it, period. I’ll not waste time or space responding to your other nonsense.
Comment by Dave — April 27, 2008 @ 8:51 pm - April 27, 2008
Dave: Your retardation is really effecting you.
I guess I misspoke when I said you called me self-loathing on this page.. must be anotehr page.
On this page you compared me negatively against a Islamic Jihadi.
Fucking dumb ass retard.
Comment by Vince P — April 27, 2008 @ 10:40 pm - April 27, 2008
Vince, nowhere did I specifically point to you. Your name is at the beginning of the paragraph because you said this ” Suddenly all of a sudden, this year, it’s “disgusting†to this. Yeah sure.” You also recently said this: “Can’t seperate abstract condemdation from direct personal attack.” Think about it.
You can consider me the enemy and continue throw around a word that by using it as insult shows a callous disregard for those who truly are mentally retarded, if it makes you feel better, but the simple fact is that I have never singled out anyone on here for attack on a personal level.
FYI, the self-loathing statement was in a response to helio and it was a general statement. Clearly it cannot be read as a personal attack towards helio because the gay conservative label is no applicable.
I won’t address this subject any further, I know what I have said and you are free to interpret it as you wish.
Comment by Dave — April 28, 2008 @ 12:27 am - April 28, 2008
Helio #43 “Who are these organizations and where could one go observe them?”
Some examples of what I consider frothing at the mouth anti-gay organizations are AFTAH, FOTF, FRC, AFA, Repent America, Renew America to name a few. Most of them refer to the work Paul Cameron in their rants about health issues that they believe are exclusive to gay men. McCain’s pals Hagee and Parsley, Pat Robertson and other mega-church or parachurch groups freely pour out anti-gay hysteria and blame us for any number of disastors. Many, but not all, of the ex-gay groups have long ago forgotten that they are supposed to exist to help those struggling with same sex attractions because it conflicts with their faith. They now exist as political organizations with the intention of stopping any further advances by the gay communities towards legal equality (marriage is only one aspect) and in fact would gladly help to reverse whatever progress has been made. The groups listed by their initials all have .org websites. I’m not sure of the names of the sites for the two America groups but they have them and they are pretty brutal in their attacks on us.
I certainly believe that they have the right to their opinions and the right to voice them. My issue with them is that 1) they call themselves Christian and 2) that they exagerate and fabricate “news” in their quest to demonize us. They report false information If a Christian organization cannot support their crusade with honesty and integrity then they are either practicing some bizarre hate fill religion which they claim is Christianity
Comment by Dave — April 28, 2008 @ 12:57 am - April 28, 2008
I have a lot of respect for Hagee. he’s done great work trying to reconcile Christians and Jews, getting Christians to recognize the abuses done against Jews by Christians in the past , and to rally Christians to support Israel in her time of crisis.
Thank God for Hagee.
People like Dave only know how to tear people down based on his inability to accept that the Bible is pretty clear when it comes to the morality of man on man action.
Comment by Vince P — April 28, 2008 @ 1:12 am - April 28, 2008
Actually no Vince, I believe anyone can falsly teach that the Bible is clear on homosexuality – but I am also free to reject it, just like I reject all the other nonsense that has been claimed to be supported by the Bible, including anti-semitism. What I object to is insane claims that God allows natural disasters to happen in response to great “sin’, in this case New Orleans and a gay parade. I wonder if Hagee would use the same logic to explain the tornadoes, record rain/snow falls and extreme drought that have occured in “red states” in the past year? Statements like “homosexuality will be the death of society”, or his enlightened comments on don’t ask don’t tell and SSM are direct attacks on the LGBT communities that are unwarranted and dispicable. Objecting to such bile is not “tearing him down” it is recognizing that this is a person who because of his teaching is a potential danger to our health and well being. If he has truly worked to address anti-semitism as you say, then yes that is commendable, but that does not mean I have to ignore the rest of his “works” and for you do so at your own peril. The inflammatory words used by him and the others I mentione can,do and will continue to lead to hatred for us and violence against us. That I don’t have to accept or sit quiet in the face of. If you choose to do so that is indeed your right.
Comment by Dave — April 28, 2008 @ 10:32 am - April 28, 2008
and
does not add up to
nor does it support
Dave, you paint with a mighty broad brush and you tend to lace your charges with descriptions that leave no room for compromise or discussion, such as:
I do not question the existence of idiots on the fringe who thump bibles and rail about gays. Nor would I quibble with the concept that they are probably driven by “blind, toxic facnaticism.”
But you clearly add Dobson, Hagee, Robertson and “other mega-church” people to the equation. This swells the ranks of people you fear enormously. You have tacitly tied Robertson and his congregation to the fringe groups you can barely identify.
This is because many fundamentalist and evangelical Christians love the sinner, but hate the sin. The sin here is homosexuality. Apparently, you want these people to change their belief system. To make your point, you imagine them as being stirred up and led numb minded on a holy crusade with swords flaming with righteousness as they rid the world of homosexuals.
If you have mistaken fundamental Christianity with radical Islam, then the point is moot.
The ministers you cite are in the marketplace the same way Rush Limbaugh is measured by his listener base.
I gave you the opening to say that Rush’s listeners are not restricted to drooling knuckle draggers. I even challenged you with the idea that there is a “mobocracy” that has to be guided against themselves by an elite government. You seem comfortable in accepting the characterizations. I then made it clear that I am one of those folks. I made it personal so that your could address your claims directly to me.
I am done here. It is clear how angry you feel about many things, but it is also clear that you do not really know why you feel so strongly. The evidence you offer is very weak tea.
Comment by heliotrope — April 28, 2008 @ 10:41 am - April 28, 2008
I guess I was supposed to grab your hand and guide your fingers to the correct letters on the keyboard so you could find the sites and read their words? I am very sorry that I was unable to provide anything more than “weak tea”. If you were even slightly interested “in why I feel so strongly” you might have made the effort to type a few simple addresses. Those are specific groups (not vaguely identified) that I point out in response to ONE of your questions. I did not put .org after each one because that seemed a waste of space and time. I have not answered the one about those who believe in an “army of God.” If loving the sinner includes blaming natural disasters that results in the deaths of many, or blaming terrorist attacks on said sinners then yeah, Hagee and Robertson are tied in to what you naively call the fringe. I don’t give a crap that they are “in the marketplace” what’s wrong is wrong and inflamatory, insane accusations towards a group of people who are innocent of the vast majority of charges leveled against them is hate, nothing less and cannot be justified by a very few verses in a very large book – The Bible. I’m not challenging anyone’s religious beliefs and if they/you can make yourselves feel better with the “hate the sin, love the sinner” mantra, fine. It does not at all change the fact that the words and actions of many who say that are hostile and at times lead to violence. ” To make your point, you imagine them as being stirred up and led numb minded on a holy crusade with swords flaming with righteousness as they rid the world of homosexuals.” Wouldn’t be the first time, many have been targeted by such fanaticism over the history of mankind. And as in the past, that fact that is what was happening was ignored, or worse, denied by those who should have spoken out against it.
“I am done here.” Fine, there was little point to the discussion anyway. I fool myself anytime I think that someone on the right might be interested in real evidence of what I see. Until now though I did not include you in that catagory because you seem different.
Whatever, life goes on. Be well.
Comment by Dave — April 28, 2008 @ 11:42 am - April 28, 2008
[...] Academics, the latter to what he termed Jacksonians. (Back in April, Bruce called the piece “excellent” and recommended it. I concur on both counts; I strongly encourage you to read [...]
Pingback by GayPatriot » Why Do (Supposedly) Thinking People Prefer Obama? — June 12, 2008 @ 6:42 pm - June 12, 2008