“I am done here.” Fine, there was little point to the discussion anyway. I fool myself anytime I think that someone on the right might be interested in real evidence of what I see. Until now though I did not include you in that catagory because you seem different.
Whatever, life goes on. Be well.

My issue with them is that 1) they call themselves Christian and 2) that they exagerate and fabricate “news” in their quest to demonize us.

and

The groups listed by their initials all have .org websites. I’m not sure of the names of the sites for the two America groups but they have them and they are pretty brutal in their attacks on us.

does not add up to

I see it in SOME segments of right wing Chistianity, those who view “the world” as evil and envision an “army of the Lord” marching forth to cleanse the nation and the world…

nor does it support

McCain’s pals Hagee and Parsley, Pat Robertson and other mega-church or parachurch groups freely pour out anti-gay hysteria and blame us for any number of disastors.

Dave, you paint with a mighty broad brush and you tend to lace your charges with descriptions that leave no room for compromise or discussion, such as:

blind, toxic fanaticism

I do not question the existence of idiots on the fringe who thump bibles and rail about gays. Nor would I quibble with the concept that they are probably driven by “blind, toxic facnaticism.”

But you clearly add Dobson, Hagee, Robertson and “other mega-church” people to the equation. This swells the ranks of people you fear enormously. You have tacitly tied Robertson and his congregation to the fringe groups you can barely identify.

This is because many fundamentalist and evangelical Christians love the sinner, but hate the sin. The sin here is homosexuality. Apparently, you want these people to change their belief system. To make your point, you imagine them as being stirred up and led numb minded on a holy crusade with swords flaming with righteousness as they rid the world of homosexuals.

If you have mistaken fundamental Christianity with radical Islam, then the point is moot.

The ministers you cite are in the marketplace the same way Rush Limbaugh is measured by his listener base.

I gave you the opening to say that Rush’s listeners are not restricted to drooling knuckle draggers. I even challenged you with the idea that there is a “mobocracy” that has to be guided against themselves by an elite government. You seem comfortable in accepting the characterizations. I then made it clear that I am one of those folks. I made it personal so that your could address your claims directly to me.

I am done here. It is clear how angry you feel about many things, but it is also clear that you do not really know why you feel so strongly. The evidence you offer is very weak tea.

Thank God for Hagee.

People like Dave only know how to tear people down based on his inability to accept that the Bible is pretty clear when it comes to the morality of man on man action.

Some examples of what I consider frothing at the mouth anti-gay organizations are AFTAH, FOTF, FRC, AFA, Repent America, Renew America to name a few. Most of them refer to the work Paul Cameron in their rants about health issues that they believe are exclusive to gay men. McCain’s pals Hagee and Parsley, Pat Robertson and other mega-church or parachurch groups freely pour out anti-gay hysteria and blame us for any number of disastors. Many, but not all, of the ex-gay groups have long ago forgotten that they are supposed to exist to help those struggling with same sex attractions because it conflicts with their faith. They now exist as political organizations with the intention of stopping any further advances by the gay communities towards legal equality (marriage is only one aspect) and in fact would gladly help to reverse whatever progress has been made. The groups listed by their initials all have .org websites. I’m not sure of the names of the sites for the two America groups but they have them and they are pretty brutal in their attacks on us.

I certainly believe that they have the right to their opinions and the right to voice them. My issue with them is that 1) they call themselves Christian and 2) that they exagerate and fabricate “news” in their quest to demonize us. They report false information If a Christian organization cannot support their crusade with honesty and integrity then they are either practicing some bizarre hate fill religion which they claim is Christianity

You can consider me the enemy and continue throw around a word that by using it as insult shows a callous disregard for those who truly are mentally retarded, if it makes you feel better, but the simple fact is that I have never singled out anyone on here for attack on a personal level.

FYI, the self-loathing statement was in a response to helio and it was a general statement. Clearly it cannot be read as a personal attack towards helio because the gay conservative label is no applicable.

I won’t address this subject any further, I know what I have said and you are free to interpret it as you wish.

Certainly they have their counterparts on the left who are equally as dangerous but they have not managed to attract the awestruck, braindead followers who will do as they are ordered without questioning. Limbaugh, Malkin, Coulter and Savage to name a few - these are the folks who represent as great a threat to democracy and a free United States as the rabid forces of radical Islam.

Conservatism may have once been a voice of reason and discipline, now, as practised by many and sadly many on here, it is nothing more than one more voice of hate in a world that has enough already.

I guess I misspoke when I said you called me self-loathing on this page.. must be anotehr page.

On this page you compared me negatively against a Islamic Jihadi.

Fucking dumb ass retard.

You were the one who called me very specific things.

Thus , having earned my eminity, I call you a retard.

You’re still retarded. Can’t seperate abstract condemdation from direct personal attack.

And more evidence of your mental impairment is the fact that your personal attacks dont actually require the use of your brain, being so typical of the army of Leftist clones you are a soldier of.

The only thing I “fear” about conservative society is the absolute refusal of the more center/moderate folks to acknowledge the existance of and the danger posed by those on the far right. When their beliefs are minimized or even at times justified it looks suspiciously like acceptance/support. The far right is not at all “conservative” and if those who call themselves such would take a closer look at their allies they would understand that. When radio “personalities” can influence millions of people, when self-appointed “religious” leaders like Dobson, Robertson, Hagee and Parsley have that same power and folks on here justify and or ignore it while shreeking incessantly about Wright and Obama’s other “unsavory” influences it show either a blindess or an active acceptance of the “crusade” of the extreme. I can confidently say that I have never condemned all Christian fundamentalists, those against SSM or conservative talk radio hosts. Your continued inability to understand the word “some” is baffling.

I’m not “stuck on gay” and I live in an almost completely heterosexual environment with no problem, though I honestly believe a more balanced mix would be healthier. Any “inner demons” I have are not at all connected with my beliefs on social and political issues. As a human being I reject the beliefs/actions of those who seek to harm others, who seek to dominate others or who seek to wipe out others. And it matters not at all to me if they do so because of right wing beliefs or left.

I will happily attempt to answer your questions from #43, since they actually are in line with the topic of the article, rather than participate in further analysis of my motives/personality/mental stability. At the moment though, I have a garbage disposal that leaks and stuff to do at my mom’s house that I should have been at before now.

Here’s a hint.. if you dont want people to view you with nothing but contempt, it helps if you dont personally attack people because of their political views.

His entire identity is vested in the identity group that he has associated himself with.

It appears that Dave is a very fearful homosexual man who has, in my opinion, unreasonable fears of a conservative society. If I am correct, he is fighting inner demons with which I have no experience. To be direct, I wonder if Dave’s demons have so infected his psyche that his fears have taken on pathological dimensions.

I have associated with gays who were so consumed by their sexual orientation and their place in a generally heterosexual setting that they were unable or unwilling to “blend” with the job at hand.

Dave writes of ” blind, toxic fanaticism.” I am inclined to believe that he has accurately labeled his attitude toward Christian fundamentalists, those who oppose gay marriage, conservative talk radio, etc.

I have never been comfortable around liberal gays who are stuck on gay. Therefore, I may not have the temperament to spar with Dave. I may not appreciate the effects of being gay may have on some individuals.

I simply am bored with the same lame attacks folks like Dave come up with , year after year after year.

They’re so braindead yet act like their omniscient. No wonder they’re so angry.. if I knew everything and nothing I’d be angry too.

Do you really fear “segments of right wing Chistianity, those who view ‘the world’ as evil and envision an ‘army of the Lord’ marching forth to cleanse the nation and the world”? Where do you run into these people?

Do you know people “who listen to these radio maniacs without questioning a word they say”? This would imply that you carefully listen to the “radio maniacs” and catch them at their lies and then debrief their droids.

You mention “the frothing at the mouth anti-gay organizations, who despite denials by some who post here, have power and influence and have one vision - a world without queers.” Who are these organizations and where could one go observe them?

“… all that I read on many sites including this one is how evil liberals are, how everything they believe is wrong, how they have no morals, ethics or concern for human life….” Are you sure that everything on this site concerns how evil liberals are ? Everything here is about how everything liberals believe is wrong? This site proclaims that liberals have no morals? This site proclaims that liberals have no ethics? This site states that liberals have no concern for human life?

Just askin’.

“You really do loathe and fear the unwashed mobocracy of unenlightened conservatives.”

Yes Heliotrope, I loathe any attitude and action that I consider threatening to the freedom and justice that this country is supposed to represent. It doesn’t take a whole lot of knowledge of world history to see the destruction caused by people who are influenced by “leaders” who are so set on their crusade that anyone or any idea that does not totally conform to their beliefs is an enemy to be eliminated. I see that kind of fanaticism growing in SOME segments of those who call themselves conservative. I see it in those who listen to these radio maniacs without questioning a word they say. I see it in SOME segments of right wing Chistianity, those who view “the world” as evil and envision an “army of the Lord” marching forth to cleanse the nation and the world, I see it when SOME Republican candidates rub elbows with self-styled neo-nazis and white power groups. And I see it in the frothing at the mouth anti-gay organizations, who despite denials by some who post here, have power and influence and have one vision - a world without queers. Do I fear that, what sane person wouldn’t?

I have not and never will say that these represent all conservatives. But when all that I read on many sites including this one is how evil liberals are, how everything they believe is wrong, how they have no morals, ethics or concern for human life, while never once voicing concern about actions of fanatics on the right, I have to wonder are you blind or do you actually support them.

But no, I don’t want anyone sterilized though I have heard that idea presented by some on the right. I don’t advocate anyone being quarantined or marked as diseased, but I’ve heard that from the right. I don’t claim that what I believe is completly correct and everyone else is wrong, but I’ve read that on here. I don’t claim liberals are perfect or superior and I certainly don’t accept or justify everything that is done by those on the left though it has been claimed I do.

I read an intelligent and rational column by Hugh Hewitt over at Townhall, not compromising his conservative beliefs but also not painting all liberals with the same tar gathering up the feathers. It was quite refreshing. Within in minutes the comments section was filling up with rants and raves ripping him apart for not being a rabid dog towards liberals. That is exactly what I am talking about, blind, toxic fanaticism.

As far as giving you evidence about Limbaugh, volumes have been written about his lies, I need not recreate it here. And it would be futile would it not, it’s not like you would believe it. And some of Coulter’s footnotes have been proven to be false references, what a surprise.

Obama is criticizing McCain’s proposal for a summertime federal gas tax holiday.

Quote:
“This is one of John McCain’s latest schemes,” Obama said, saying it would save drivers only $25. “That’s the federal highway fund that we use to build our roads and our bridges, you remember that bridge in Minneapolis? We’re already short on money in terms of investing – and for what – for 25 bucks?”

However back in 2000 , when Gas prices were high for their time, the State of Illinois Legislature had before it a bill which proposed the same sort of state tax holiday.

Obama was asked if he supported the Illinois tax holiday

Quote:
Obama replied, “Well, actually there was a vote in the state senate that I opposed. I voted against a moratorium on the gas tax for the same reason that I don’t think it’s the best approach for us to take right now.”

However, if you look at the Senate roll call vote , Obama clearly voted for the tax break.

Here is the press release describing the bill Senate Bill 1310

http://www.illinois.gov/PressReleases/ShowPressRelease.cfm?RecNum=871&SubjectID=50

Here is the recorded vote for the bill in the IL Senate:

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/votehistory/srollcalls91/pdf/910SB1310_03082000_001000T.PDF

This guy is such a liar and a fruad.

There was an amendment to that bill that would require gas stations to put a sign on the pumps telling customers that the state tax was repealed.

According to the State of Illinois General Assembly Senate Transcript, Obama asks the author of the amendment:

“I was wondering, can I - in my district, can I have “Senator Obama reduced your gasoline prices”? Is that possible?”

http://www.ilga.gov/senate/transcripts/strans91/ST041500.pdf

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