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	<title>Comments on: The game&#8217;s afoot!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/06/03/the-games-afoot/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/06/03/the-games-afoot/</link>
	<description>The Internet home for American gay conservatives.</description>
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		<title>By: GayPatriot &#187; On Blogging &#38; Debating the California Marriage Amendment</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/06/03/the-games-afoot/comment-page-1/#comment-208352</link>
		<dc:creator>GayPatriot &#187; On Blogging &#38; Debating the California Marriage Amendment</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 21:45:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=3247#comment-208352</guid>
		<description>[...] and doing research for my dissertation, we received confirmation that California would be voting on amending the state constitution to define marriage as the union of one man and one woman, thus overturning the recent California Supreme Court [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and doing research for my dissertation, we received confirmation that California would be voting on amending the state constitution to define marriage as the union of one man and one woman, thus overturning the recent California Supreme Court [...]</p>
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		<title>By: GayPatriot &#187; Don&#8217;t Forget About Florida</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/06/03/the-games-afoot/comment-page-1/#comment-207632</link>
		<dc:creator>GayPatriot &#187; Don&#8217;t Forget About Florida</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 14:09:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=3247#comment-207632</guid>
		<description>[...] I believe it is extremely foolish to allow amendments with only 50.1% of popular support. As one commentor here put it concerning the fight in California: Just remember, it cuts both ways. If, ten years from [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I believe it is extremely foolish to allow amendments with only 50.1% of popular support. As one commentor here put it concerning the fight in California: Just remember, it cuts both ways. If, ten years from [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Vince P</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/06/03/the-games-afoot/comment-page-1/#comment-207525</link>
		<dc:creator>Vince P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 12:18:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=3247#comment-207525</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Just remember, it cuts both ways. If, ten years from now, support for same-sex marriage breaks the 50.1% mark the other way (as it likely will, in California at least), the constitution can be changed back. Itâ€™s not the kind of locked-in, stuck-with-it kind of thing that a federal amendment is, precisely because the process is so (relatively) easy.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That&#039;s true.. but at least it was decided upon by the people or their represenatives and not an imposition from above.

My main objection is to this is the bypassing of the democratic process and the insecurity and resentment that results because of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Just remember, it cuts both ways. If, ten years from now, support for same-sex marriage breaks the 50.1% mark the other way (as it likely will, in California at least), the constitution can be changed back. Itâ€™s not the kind of locked-in, stuck-with-it kind of thing that a federal amendment is, precisely because the process is so (relatively) easy.</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s true.. but at least it was decided upon by the people or their represenatives and not an imposition from above.</p>
<p>My main objection is to this is the bypassing of the democratic process and the insecurity and resentment that results because of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/06/03/the-games-afoot/comment-page-1/#comment-207307</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 08:51:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=3247#comment-207307</guid>
		<description>&quot;The one thing I envy California about is the ease in which the people can get something on the ballot.&quot;

Unfortunately, we get pretty much any kind of laws on our ballots, from simple and clear legislation to complicated economic or political issues.  

I&#039;d be happier of voters had to pass a little quiz about what each referendum actually said before earning the right to vote one way or the other.  Of course, I&#039;d be happier if _legislators_ also had to pass such a quiz about the text of a law before voting on it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The one thing I envy California about is the ease in which the people can get something on the ballot.&#8221;</p>
<p>Unfortunately, we get pretty much any kind of laws on our ballots, from simple and clear legislation to complicated economic or political issues.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;d be happier of voters had to pass a little quiz about what each referendum actually said before earning the right to vote one way or the other.  Of course, I&#8217;d be happier if _legislators_ also had to pass such a quiz about the text of a law before voting on it.</p>
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		<title>By: Clint</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/06/03/the-games-afoot/comment-page-1/#comment-207210</link>
		<dc:creator>Clint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 06:45:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=3247#comment-207210</guid>
		<description>Vince P.-

Just remember, it cuts both ways.  If, ten years from now, support for same-sex marriage breaks the 50.1% mark the other way (as it likely will, in California at least), the constitution can be changed back.  It&#039;s not the kind of locked-in, stuck-with-it kind of thing that a federal amendment is, precisely because the process is so (relatively) easy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vince P.-</p>
<p>Just remember, it cuts both ways.  If, ten years from now, support for same-sex marriage breaks the 50.1% mark the other way (as it likely will, in California at least), the constitution can be changed back.  It&#8217;s not the kind of locked-in, stuck-with-it kind of thing that a federal amendment is, precisely because the process is so (relatively) easy.</p>
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		<title>By: LCRW</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/06/03/the-games-afoot/comment-page-1/#comment-206403</link>
		<dc:creator>LCRW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 17:02:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=3247#comment-206403</guid>
		<description>&quot;The one thing I envy California about is the ease in which the people can get something on the ballot. Here in Democrat-controlled corrupt Illinois, itâ€™s impossible to do anything if the Obamas of the world donâ€™t want you to.&quot;

I think the western state&#039;s constitutions have the referenda option written into their constitutions. Oregon was the first state to come up with the idea I think. Here in Washington, if the legislature is too spineless to act on a certain piece of legislation, it goes onto the ballot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The one thing I envy California about is the ease in which the people can get something on the ballot. Here in Democrat-controlled corrupt Illinois, itâ€™s impossible to do anything if the Obamas of the world donâ€™t want you to.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think the western state&#8217;s constitutions have the referenda option written into their constitutions. Oregon was the first state to come up with the idea I think. Here in Washington, if the legislature is too spineless to act on a certain piece of legislation, it goes onto the ballot.</p>
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		<title>By: John F in Indy</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/06/03/the-games-afoot/comment-page-1/#comment-206178</link>
		<dc:creator>John F in Indy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 13:35:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=3247#comment-206178</guid>
		<description>I blame Karl Rove.

LOL. I do too. My question is when is KR going to stop Obama???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I blame Karl Rove.</p>
<p>LOL. I do too. My question is when is KR going to stop Obama???</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/06/03/the-games-afoot/comment-page-1/#comment-206050</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 12:45:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=3247#comment-206050</guid>
		<description>Vince P:  &lt;blockquote&gt;The one thing I envy California about is the ease in which the people can get something on the ballot.&lt;/blockquote&gt; 
I like this as far as legislation goes but not for amending the state constitution.  I think it&#039;s rather absurd to pass amendments with only 50.1% of the vote.  The Founders had great wisdom in making it more difficult.  Legislation on the other hand is a different matter and to the victor goes the spoils in that case.  Wish we could do that more here in Virginia...
Trace:  &lt;blockquote&gt;Just curious: if the amendment does pass, would a same-sex marriage conducted in California between June 18 and certification of election results in November continue to be recognized in New York?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
No one knows for sure but you can bet this would spark another round of lawsuits - in both states.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.volokh.com/posts/1211241839.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Volokh Conspiracy&lt;/a&gt; had an interesting post about this last month.  Even this amendment, if it passes, will be under attack in the courts.  Sure, someone will try a Federal civil rights angle but that will undoubtedly fail.  The most interesting I&#039;ve seen though is this from &lt;a href=&quot;http://blogcabinca.org/2008/05/21/can-an-initiative-abolish-constitutional-rights/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;LCR California&lt;/a&gt;.  I&#039;m not a lawyer and find the California constitutional law a confusing morass so beats me if this has any merit and/or would go anywhere.  I&#039;m sure somebody will try.
Leah:  &lt;blockquote&gt;If the CA Supreme court really wanted this ruling to stick. They would have waited until after the November election.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
This is one reason why I think this had more to do with a different view of constitutional rights by the majority of CA Justices than simply politics.  Certainly if this was only about politics, the approach you suggest would have been far better for success.  Heck, it would have worthy of that magnificent bastard Karl Rove... ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vince P:<br />
<blockquote>The one thing I envy California about is the ease in which the people can get something on the ballot.</p></blockquote>
<p>I like this as far as legislation goes but not for amending the state constitution.  I think it&#8217;s rather absurd to pass amendments with only 50.1% of the vote.  The Founders had great wisdom in making it more difficult.  Legislation on the other hand is a different matter and to the victor goes the spoils in that case.  Wish we could do that more here in Virginia&#8230;<br />
Trace:<br />
<blockquote>Just curious: if the amendment does pass, would a same-sex marriage conducted in California between June 18 and certification of election results in November continue to be recognized in New York?</p></blockquote>
<p>No one knows for sure but you can bet this would spark another round of lawsuits &#8211; in both states.  <a href="http://www.volokh.com/posts/1211241839.shtml" rel="nofollow">Volokh Conspiracy</a> had an interesting post about this last month.  Even this amendment, if it passes, will be under attack in the courts.  Sure, someone will try a Federal civil rights angle but that will undoubtedly fail.  The most interesting I&#8217;ve seen though is this from <a href="http://blogcabinca.org/2008/05/21/can-an-initiative-abolish-constitutional-rights/" rel="nofollow">LCR California</a>.  I&#8217;m not a lawyer and find the California constitutional law a confusing morass so beats me if this has any merit and/or would go anywhere.  I&#8217;m sure somebody will try.<br />
Leah:<br />
<blockquote>If the CA Supreme court really wanted this ruling to stick. They would have waited until after the November election.
</p></blockquote>
<p>This is one reason why I think this had more to do with a different view of constitutional rights by the majority of CA Justices than simply politics.  Certainly if this was only about politics, the approach you suggest would have been far better for success.  Heck, it would have worthy of that magnificent bastard Karl Rove&#8230; <img src='http://www.gaypatriot.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: American Elephant</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/06/03/the-games-afoot/comment-page-1/#comment-205562</link>
		<dc:creator>American Elephant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 05:13:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=3247#comment-205562</guid>
		<description>I blame Karl Rove.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I blame Karl Rove.</p>
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		<title>By: Leah</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/06/03/the-games-afoot/comment-page-1/#comment-205190</link>
		<dc:creator>Leah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 00:09:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=3247#comment-205190</guid>
		<description>If the CA Supreme court really wanted this ruling to stick. They would have waited until after the November election. 
There were enough signatures for this initiative to go on the ballot and it may have appeared there in November. But it wouldn&#039;t have had  the punch, the power and the backing it has now.

The CA Supreme court just lit a fire under this issue, and the money will be out there pushing this through. Sure, there are a lot of young people who couldn&#039;t vote 8 years ago. Many, but not all of them don&#039;t have a problem with gay marriage. But they do have a problem coming out and voting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the CA Supreme court really wanted this ruling to stick. They would have waited until after the November election.<br />
There were enough signatures for this initiative to go on the ballot and it may have appeared there in November. But it wouldn&#8217;t have had  the punch, the power and the backing it has now.</p>
<p>The CA Supreme court just lit a fire under this issue, and the money will be out there pushing this through. Sure, there are a lot of young people who couldn&#8217;t vote 8 years ago. Many, but not all of them don&#8217;t have a problem with gay marriage. But they do have a problem coming out and voting.</p>
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		<title>By: Trace Phelps</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/06/03/the-games-afoot/comment-page-1/#comment-205156</link>
		<dc:creator>Trace Phelps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 23:49:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=3247#comment-205156</guid>
		<description>Just curious:  if the amendment does pass, would a same-sex marriage conducted in California between June 18 and certification of election results in November continue to be recognized in New York?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just curious:  if the amendment does pass, would a same-sex marriage conducted in California between June 18 and certification of election results in November continue to be recognized in New York?</p>
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		<title>By: Vince P</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/06/03/the-games-afoot/comment-page-1/#comment-205092</link>
		<dc:creator>Vince P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 22:58:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=3247#comment-205092</guid>
		<description>The one thing I envy California about is the ease in which the people can get something on the ballot.   Here in Democrat-controlled corrupt Illinois, it&#039;s impossible to do anything if the Obamas of the world don&#039;t want you to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The one thing I envy California about is the ease in which the people can get something on the ballot.   Here in Democrat-controlled corrupt Illinois, it&#8217;s impossible to do anything if the Obamas of the world don&#8217;t want you to.</p>
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