Okay, NDT. I’ll call. Bush and Obama are both dead wrong on immigration.

Granted, I don’t read every word that comes out of the man’s mouth so this is just speculation. Is he really talking about enforcing the laws, or how the laws are being enforced. For the vast majority of these people, the only law they have broken is to enter country illegally so the strongarm tactics that are often used are totally unacceptable. A civilized country should be able to enforce it’s immigration laws without violence, in most cases. Sure, there are some who are hardcore criminals but that is not the norm, despite what some try to get us to believe.

NDT, what we eat, drink, smoke, drive is no business of the gov’t, but where do you draw the line – drugs are controlled, marriage is controlled, at what age a person can drink, drive a car, have sex is controlled. All these things are personal decisions yet up to a certain level people have no problem with gov’t controls. If every person in the country had common sense, was concerned with not only their own comfort, health or safety but also for that of those around them then there would be no need for any of these laws, but we both know that is not the case. Obviously it can go to far, and probably will but it’s ridiculous to blame only the Democrats. Who is it that is trying to limit what we can watch on television, not just the public networks but cable too? Who is it that that sets in motion their army of drones who push a button to send an email whenever a “bad” word is said? Both sides want to control us, Dems are just more open about it.

This is in response to Gene in PA and V the K about defending Michelle Obama’s comments. First I responded to Bruce about it referring to his post in #20

Bruce, it will probably be the former. I don’t agree with your premise that Michelle Obama “roundly denounced this country…” It was her way of saying that Bush was an inept president and that his policies, in her opinion, have hurt the country. Granted, it was stupid for her to say it. But let’s take her at her word on this one occasion (and ignore everything else she has said) and assume that she really doesn’t like America. Then the answer to your question is the latter privately, but publicly, it will be the former.

I’ll add the following. If Michelle Obama didn’t mean what she said in that quote, then perhaps she is lying. I usually have a problem more with people when they intend to deceive, whether it’s a flat out lie, or a statement that’s technically true. Clinton was a master of that. For example, when he said, “I have not had sexual relations with that woman , Monica Lewinsky,” that could have been the truth, because “that woman” could have referred to some other woman, and I’m sure there’s at least one woman that Clinton did not have sex with. But whether that statement was technically true or not, he clearly intended to deceive people into thinking that he did not have sex with Ms. Lewinski.

I sometimes say things like, “I thought the rain would never end” when we have several days of rain. That’s a lie, because I honestly thought the rain would end at some point. But that statement was not intended to deceive, but to make the point that it was raining for an extended period of time. That’s kind of the way I took Michelle Obama’s quote. I think it was her way of saying that she was not happy with Bush’s policies and his governing effectiveness. Now, unlike my statement, it’s not as clear if that is what she meant. For that reason, and others, it was a poor choice, and a statement she should have never made.

Her actions and other statements may help clear up what she meant. If she really hates America, maybe a blogger will find a video of her waving an Iranian flag and rooting for them and against American athletes, or something. If that happens, we’ll clearly know what she meant.

I like these arguments and discussions with leftists. But they do seem to give up fairly quickly no?

I gave my answer re: Michelle Obama’s quote, but no one responded to it. I was also away for the weekend. Anyway, here’s my response again.

Bruce, it will probably be the former. I don’t agree with your premise that Michelle Obama “roundly denounced this country…” It was her way of saying that Bush was an inept president and that his policies, in her opinion, have hurt the country. Granted, it was stupid for her to say it. But let’s take her at her word on this one occasion (and ignore everything else she has said) and assume that she really doesn’t like America. Then the answer to your question is the latter privately, but publicly, it will be the former.

I’ll add the following. If Michelle Obama didn’t mean what she said in that quote, then perhaps she is lying. I usually have a problem more with people when they intend to deceive, whether it’s a flat out lie, or a statement that’s technically true. Clinton was a master of that. For example, when he said, “I have not had sexual relations with that woman , Monica Lewinsky,” that could have been the truth, because “that woman” could have referred to some other woman, and I’m sure there’s at least one woman that Clinton did not have sex with. But whether that statement was technically true or not, he clearly intended to deceive people into thinking that he did not have sex with Ms. Lewinski.

I sometimes say things like, “I thought the rain would never end” when we have several days of rain. That’s a lie, because I honestly thought the rain would end at some point. But that statement was not intended to deceive, but to make the point that it was raining for an extended period of time. That’s kind of the way I took Michelle Obama’s quote. I think it was her way of saying that she was not happy with Bush’s policies and his governing effectiveness. Now, unlike my statement, it’s not as clear if that is what she meant. For that reason, and others, it was a poor choice, and a statement she should have never made.

Her actions and other statements may help clear up what she meant. If she really hates America, maybe a blogger will find a video of her waving an Iranian flag and rooting for them and against American athletes, or something. If that happens, we’ll clearly know what she meant.

I like these arguments and discussions with leftists. But they do seem to give up fairly quickly no?

I gave my answer re: Michelle Obama’s quote, but no one responded to it. I was also away for the weekend. Anyway, here’s my response again.

Bruce, it will probably be the former. I don’t agree with your premise that Michelle Obama “roundly denounced this country…” It was her way of saying that Bush was an inept president and that his policies, in her opinion, have hurt the country. Granted, it was stupid for her to say it. But let’s take her at her word on this one occasion (and ignore everything else she has said) and assume that she really doesn’t like America. Then the answer to your question is the latter privately, but publicly, it will be the former.

I’ll add the following. If Michelle Obama didn’t mean what she said in that quote, then perhaps she is lying. I usually have a problem more with people when they intend to deceive, whether it’s a flat out lie, or a statement that’s technically true. Clinton was a master of that. For example, when he said, “I have not had sexual relations with that woman , Monica Lewinsky,” that could have been the truth, because “that woman” could have referred to some other woman, and I’m sure there’s at least one woman that Clinton did not have sex with. But whether that statement was technically true or not, he clearly intended to deceive people into thinking that he did not have sex with Ms. Lewinski.

I sometimes say things like, “I thought the rain would never end” when we have several days of rain. That’s a lie, because I honestly thought the rain would end at some point. But that statement was not intended to deceive, but to make the point that it was raining for an extended period of time. That’s kind of the way I took Michelle Obama’s quote. I think it was her way of saying that she was not happy with Bush’s policies and his governing effectiveness. Now, unlike my statement, it’s not as clear if that is what she meant. For that reason, and others, it was a poor choice, and a statement she should have never made.

Her actions and other statements may help clear up what she meant. If she really hates America, maybe a blogger will find a video of her waving an Iranian flag and rooting for them and against American athletes, or something. If that happens, we’ll clearly know what she meant.

In the meantime,

Ah, but it is overlooked; indeed, Barack Obama even calls it racist and hateful to enforce immigration laws and argues that they should be given special treatment.

NDT, what does Bush call nonenforcement of immigration? Patriotic and American?

I’ll state that Bush and Obama are wrong on illegal immigration. Now it’s your turn.

I gave my answer re: Michelle Obama’s quote, but no one responded to it. I was also away for the weekend. Anyway, here’s my response again.

Bruce, it will probably be the former. I don’t agree with your premise that Michelle Obama “roundly denounced this country…” It was her way of saying that Bush was an inept president and that his policies, in her opinion, have hurt the country. Granted, it was stupid for her to say it. But let’s take her at her word on this one occasion (and ignore everything else she has said) and assume that she really doesn’t like America. Then the answer to your question is the latter privately, but publicly, it will be the former.

I’ll add the following. If Michelle Obama didn’t mean what she said in that quote, then perhaps she is lying. I usually have a problem more with people when they intend to deceive, whether it’s a flat out lie, or a statement that’s technically true. Clinton was a master of that. For example, when he said, “I have not had sexual relations with that woman , Monica Lewinsky,” that could have been the truth, because “that woman” could have referred to some other woman, and I’m sure there’s at least one woman that Clinton did not have sex with. But whether that statement was technically true or not, he clearly intended to deceive people into thinking that he did not have sex with Ms. Lewinski.

I sometimes say things like, “I thought the rain would never end” when we have several days of rain. That’s a lie, because I honestly thought the rain would end at some point. But that statement was not intended to deceive, but to make the point that it was raining for an extended period of time. That’s kind of the way I took Michelle Obama’s quote. I think it was her way of saying that she was not happy with Bush’s policies and his governing effectiveness. Now, unlike my statement, it’s not as clear if that is what she meant. For that reason, and others, it was a poor choice, and a statement she should have never made.

Her actions and other statements may help clear up what she meant. If she really hates America, maybe a blogger will find a video of her waving an Iranian flag and rooting for them and against American athletes, or something. If that happens, we’ll clearly know what she meant.

Ah, but it is overlooked; indeed, Barack Obama even calls it racist and hateful to enforce immigration laws and argues that they should be given special treatment.

Now, Dave, instead of sidestepping, state that the Democrats and Obama supporters on the LA City Council that are banning fast-food restaurants and demanding that private businesses create sanctuaries for illegal immigrants are wrong. Indeed, since Obama himself supports such policies, state that HE is wrong.

Dang, just deleted my response to you Gene. In a nutshell, you cannot make statements like “leftists believe” because we are all individuals who have many beliefs some which even agree with yours at times. “the left” is not some giant blob that is driven by a uniform set of defined opinions, rules etc. and the same with “the right”. I hate the degree of interference in our daily lives by gov’t entities that is happening right now. What we eat, drink, smoke or drive is our choice. But, how far does that go – how do you then justify drinking age limits, drug laws and other controls that are imposed by the gov’t on our lives? If y’all could express your opinions in away that shows what you believe not by attacking all liberals for what you THINK they believe it would make a lot more sense, and have a greater impact on the reader if that is what you want.

V the K, in my opinion what MO said in the afternoon speech is what she meant in the morning “really proud”, not just “proud”. The response to her statement from “the right” is totally based on the lie that “liberals hate America”. To be critical is not hate, it’s actually more patriotic than yeah rah rah. Also, there is much in the USA that YOU are not proud of so why is it you can express that and work for what you consider better but “the left” can’t. No doubt there are some at both extremes of the political spectrum who “hate America” but the Obamas are not among them and the majority of liberals/Democrats/leftists are no among them. Oh, and your statement about how MO can say whatever she wants because she is a black woman it one of the stupidest things I have read on here. My standards of whose words to accept or not is certainly not based on the color of their skin or their reproductive parts. Sorry that I can’t affirm your ignorance.

To those who claim liberals give up, I can only speak for myself but I work 10-12 hour days and I have neither the time or desire to sit and respond on message boards during those hours. And on many days I log in and start working as soon as I get home so again, it’s not a priority to check every comment here. Lots of times days have gone by and any post that I had commented on is no longer getting comments so I don’t bother.

So why not take the opportunity provided by the Olympics to concentrate on something other than smearing those you imagine to be your enemy.

NDT, you are deranged.

Comment filter seems to be working fine.

That would be a legitimate gripe if you had ever demonstrated independent thought, Dave; however, what you have demonstrated is that, regardless of how inane something happens to be, if Democrats support it, you support it.

But, there can always be a first time. After you answer V the K’s question, go ahead and demonstrate to us that you are capable of such by stating that the Democrats and Obama supporters on the LA City Council that are banning fast-food restaurants and demanding that private businesses create sanctuaries for illegal immigrants are wrong.