Check out these interesting critiques of liberal intolerance towards gay conservatives from two perhaps more liberal-minded blogs:
[M]any intolerant gay liberals really don’t care so much about how gay Republicans feel about “issues utterly unrelated to gay rights,” except to assume unfairly that their motivation is probably selfish (i.e., lower taxes) rather than not (i.e., national security, foreign policy, etc.).
The real source of their trouble is their singular focus on gay civil rights as an issue that ought to trump every other, so much so that they bear real feelings of betrayal and outright hatred for any one of “our own” who support politicians or even political parties on the other side of that issue. (No doubt that singular focus is easier when they just so happen to agree with Democrats on most every other issue.) […]
The problem with the witch hunt at Manhunt, to slightly restate Jamie’s point, is too many on the gay left who believe that because of how the parties stand on gay rights, to be gay and Republican is a betrayal not to be tolerated, especially if you support individual politicians like McCain who have a rotten gay rights record.
– Chris Crain
[C]ampaign rhetoric and partisan posturing aside, Obama is not perfect and McCain is not a homophobe…
Does our community have room for, as example, my gay African-American Democratic friend who is concerned that Barack Obama does not have adequate experience or maturity for this position? Is there a place for my gay Republican friend who thinks that McCain is a move in the right direction by the Republican Party and who wants to vote to support this improvement? What about women who believe that Hillary Clinton was treated grossly unfair by DNC operatives?
Or are gay activist correct in demanding that those who do not give unqualified support for the Democratic Party candidate are traitors and should be reviled and punished?
– Timothy Kincaid, Box Turtle Bulletin
Most of the comments responding to these posts are about what I expect, but both Crain and Kincaid demonstrate a remarkable understanding of gay conservatives and our concerns that I for one find to be refreshing.
— John (Average Gay Joe)
Juvenile narcissism. One crucial part of being an adult is realizing that the world does not revolve around your dick, your parties, or your desires, and that, in fact, all are inconsequential.
I have heard many times, they hate me because I’m gay, so I hate them.
Then they turn around and talk about inclusion, tolerance and acceptance.
I had seen a very interesting comment about the manhunt debacle. Since the gay community is so interested in being mainstreamed – clearly manhunt is defeating that purpose. So of course the head of it is a Republican – evil, conniving and making money off poor gay folks that can’t help but turn to this site.
John, this is a great post, and I’m not even a conservative. It really does reflect what’s unfortunate about so much of our gay and lesbian “commuity” – it’s so focused on the issues related to identity, that we let ourselves be blinded to other issues we might agree on.
“The real source of their trouble is their singular focus on gay civil rights as an issue that ought to trump every other
Juvenile narcissism. One crucial part of being an adult is realizing that the world does not revolve around your dick, your parties, or your desires, and that, in fact, all are inconsequential.”
Ringwingproof, I’m one of those gays who does believe that gay rights in may ways trump other concerns. It is not out of selfish narcissim, although tossing that insult my way doesn’t make you a better person.
The gay rights movement, in my opinion, is about the very issues that both make this country great, and are the founding principles in which we formed this country. Freedom of speech, Freedom of association, being allowed to believe(or not believe) whatever you want, to peacefully live your life as you see fit without government interfearance. If we are the “land of the free, and home of the brave” then we should be brave enough to make sure that our people, all our people, gay and straight are free.
To me, freedom and equality are central to America and not something we can put off dealing with until things are more convenient. No other minority has ever waited for a convenient time to fight for their rights.
We obviously disagree, but oversimplifying your oppositions opinions does not make for a healthy debate on the subject.
I admit there is intolerance in the gay community, and the BTB comments revealed where at least some of that animosity is coming from. The important question is “how do we deal with that?” The answer isn’t, “liberals need to get over themselves” nor is it “conservatives need to grow a soul”. The answer is – understanding and dialogue.
Why is it inherently selfish to favor “lower taxes?” Some of us believe in low taxes as a matter of principle. High taxes limit people’s economic freedom. High taxes are bad for the economy because they siphon off investment. Taxes encourage the government to pay for things many of us don’t feel the government ought to be funding in the first place, like ethanol subsidies, earmarks for gourmet lunch menus in Berkeley, and bridges to nowhere.
Not to mention the injustice (and insanity) of confiscating the wages earned by productive people to subsidize unproductive people, thereby encouraging them to remain unproductive.
JasonD your comments are interesting and bring to light what I see as the difference between the liberals and conservatives, the meaning of “we”. I am a conservative and “we” really means “me”. To my liberal friends “we” means the government. Passing a law to grant equality to gay folks isn’t going to change many minds. I own/run a company with over 300 employees. They know I’m gay and even though they are mostly conservative folks, I’m totally accepted by them as is my life partner. No “we” did that, I did that by being a great boss. As you alluded to in your post, the equality I do want is to have the government stop picking favorites and treat me as an individual based solely on my merits. Currently, as a white male, I don’t get any special consideration for government contracts. Does equality mean that just because I suck dick that I now get preferential treatment? I’d argue that both the liberals and the so-called conservative “get over themselves” and truly treats us equally.
The gay rights movement, in my opinion, is about the very issues that both make this country great, and are the founding principles in which we formed this country. Freedom of speech, Freedom of association, being allowed to believe(or not believe) whatever you want, to peacefully live your life as you see fit without government interfearance.
So, which conservatives are trying to take those rights away from gay people? Can you name any?
It seems many on the left *are* eager to take away those freedoms. Freedom of Speech? We see the Fairness Doctrine coming back, we see the Democrats having reporters arrested for reporting on meetings with Democrat fundraisers, we see the Obama campaign suing and intimidating those who criticize him.
Freedom of Association? Not when the left tries to force private groups like the Boy Scouts to conform to their notions of inclusion, or tell employers and landlords whom they can and cannot employ and rent to.
Freedom to Believe whatever you want? Not if you’re a Christian conservative. Your values will be under assault by the ACLU, Planned Parenthood, the NEA and any number of left-wing groups… all with generous government funding. Don’t believe in Global Warming? You’ll be labeled a “denier,” and may even have your views censored. And you can forget about working in academia.
Peacefully free to live your life as you see fit? Nope, leftist busy-bodies are already trying to mandate what you can eat (no trans-fats allowed, ban the hot dog! go vegan), what you can drive (from fuel efficiency mandates to the outright outlawing of SUV’s), where you can live and what you are allowed to do with property you own (which, under Kelo, can be confiscated and given to someone else if someone else will pay higher taxes).
But many on the gay left don’t mind losing those freedoms… provided they can swap them for a marriage license.
#5 – Well done, Hunter. I wish I could have a boss like you!
Regards,
Peter H.
High taxes destroy the economy, hurting the working class and the poor among others. Low taxes help the economy, helping the working class and the poor. If you truly care for the poor: you favor laissez-faire capitalism. To the extent a country implements it, it raises the living standards of everyone, including the poorest. Part of why I love it.
America has the richest poor people in the entire world. America’s poor often own homes and cars, almost invariably own televisions and refrigerators, almost invariably have medical care (the myth of “40 million uninsured” notwithstanding), plenty of food, etc. A living standard better than that of an 18th-century king or queen.
People who support so-called “hate speech” legislation have no respect for freedom of speech. Likewise, people who support anti-discrimination laws have no respect for freedom of association. What Jason meant to say was that as long as he approves of what you say or whom you associate with, he believes in freedom of speech and freedom of association.
There is no such thing as a “women’s issue,” or a “gay issue,” or a “black issue.” There are only American issues, and those are what is best for the nation — and that may not be best for your or my personal life.
Please note that the two conflict beyond a certain point; you can’t make people equal in life’s results without basically enslaving the productive people for the sake of the non-productive.
The American Revolution was much more about freedom than equality. Using government to achieve equality before the law enhances freedom; using government for anything beyond that inevitably reduces freedom, or destroys it if taken far enough, e.g., socialism. Equality as something important (beyond equality before the law) is a French Revolution idea, not an American one.
Jefferson’s conception of equality, for example, was focused on equality before the law: the abolition of aristocratic and monarchic privileges, and the endowment of individuals with *rights* (i.e., legal freedoms) such as freedom of association, conscience, etc. Yay!
Great post! I consider myself a recovering liberal, because I thought I had to be a liberal because I was gay.
But you know what? I felt so uneasy in the liberal movement. I never understood why…
I am more afraid of what my liberal feminist gay friends will think of me as a conservative more than what any Republican conservative will think of me as a gay woman…
Liberal Intolerance toward ” Gay ” Conservatives ? What about ” Gay ” Conservative Intolerance toward True Conservatives ? Ever though of that ? I’m traditional and so called ” homosexual conservatives ” despise me … there is basically no difference between a ” liberal ” , so called ” moderate ” or ” conservative ” gay … they are all out for gays in whichever way … when I finally see a ” Gay ” conservative whom is against gay marriage , gay adoption and anything pertaining to his community then maybe I will believe that person since him or her is truly for traditionalism and not transforming conservatism to suit his or her sexual preference … instead traditionalism is changing him or her