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Palin Connects with Main Street, Biden with Washington

Posted by GayPatriotWest at 12:18 am - October 3, 2008.
Filed under: 2008 Presidential Politics,Sarah Palin

I watched the debate with a blog-reader who has become a friend, almost like an older sister to me.  She’s a mother, with three grown sons.  We were both nervous about how our lady would do tonight.

As a political geek who loves debating policy and ideas, I thought Joe Biden won this on points.  At the same time, as a movie-lover aware of the power of images, I thought she killed on style.  Although she seemed a bit jittery at times, she always came across as friendly and comfortable with herself.  She looked at the camera and us and spoke to us with a wink and a smile.

He often looked down as if he wanted to make sure he was getting the right answer.  He was better versed in the arcane of Washington, she with the concerns of the middle class.  When he talked about the middle class, it seemed he was reading from a script of themes which appeal to people who don’t follow politics for a living.

At times, when Palin was speaking, Biden smiled, smirked or scowled, the evil step-father determined to prevent his wife’s daughter from succeeding in his line of work.

There were some policy issues where she danced circles around him, mostly, ironically, on foreign policy.  She understand the situation in Iraq better than he did.  And the threat from Iran.  He talked about ending the war in Iraq, she talked about winning it.  She spoke of victory.  He spoke of timelines.

He called Iran with nuclear weapons “destabilizing,” she said it would be “dangerous.”  That regime “cannot be allowed to acquire such weapons,” she insisted.

That said, she missed a number of opportunities to call Biden on his misrepresentations of John McCain’s record — and his own.  When Biden claimed McCain always favored deregulation, she failed to point out her running mate’s record on the regulation most at issue in the current “crisis.”  The Arizona Senator had co-sponsored a bill, the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, which would have regulated Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the two institutions at the heart of the current crisis.

Perhaps because of her failed opportunities, I feared she lost the debate.  Even Charles Krauthammer thought she lost it on points.  But, the woman with whom I watched it thought she had won because she did a better job of connecting with Main Street.  Frank Luntz’s focus group agreed; nearly every hand going up when he asked if she had won that debate.

Perhaps, most Americans could care less how well she understands the way Washington works, or whether she answered every question perfectly.  They want to know if she understands how their households work, and whether she’s familiar with their daily concerns.

And on that score, she connected.  She more than connected.  She empathized.  She related.  She spoke their language.  Strike that, she spoke our language.

UPDATE:  Athena says she killed:

UP-UPDATE: Michelle Malkin loves Sarah Palin:

She was warm, fresh, funny, confident, energetic, personable, relentless, and on message. She roasted Obama’s flip-flops on the surge and tea-with-dictators declarations, dinged Biden’s bash-Bush rhetoric, challenged the blame-America defeatism of the Left, and exuded the sunny optimism that energized the base in the first place.

. . . .

Sarah Palin looked presidential.
Joe Biden looked tired.

UP-UP-UPDATE: In the comments, American Elephant writes, “But Palin came across as a serious, knowledgeable, principled and most importantly genuine, likable and trustworthy.

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66 Comments

  1. ya, like irag was a sane move.

    Comment by michael — October 3, 2008 @ 12:25 am - October 3, 2008

  2. oh, let me see if i have this right. this is the same party with the mantra of “our tax cuts are working”. rotf.

    Comment by michael — October 3, 2008 @ 12:29 am - October 3, 2008

  3. I think on policy points it was a draw. I think they both had good moments.

    I think in presentation she won hands down. She smiled, she made eye contact and didn’t seem bored or unapproachable.

    Biden at times looked tired, irritable, and often sounded grumpy to me. At times he didn’t seem to believe what he was saying.

    I think the one thing Palin did was show herself capable of doing well, something that wasn’t going so well with the interviews. I have decided the interviews make her balk because she is afraid of the gotcha moments-something that isn’t quite so risky when in a debate-and the words aren’t being edited.

    Based on that I think she wins.

    Comment by just me — October 3, 2008 @ 12:33 am - October 3, 2008

  4. whiners in the end never win.

    Comment by michael — October 3, 2008 @ 12:36 am - October 3, 2008

  5. Michael, guess that means it’s over for Obama.

    Comment by GayPatriotWest — October 3, 2008 @ 12:37 am - October 3, 2008

  6. blotto, obama wins 56 to 43. wanna bet????

    Comment by michael — October 3, 2008 @ 12:39 am - October 3, 2008

  7. did you listen to her presentation?? reminded me of al gores whiny voice.

    Comment by michael — October 3, 2008 @ 12:44 am - October 3, 2008

  8. Would I be a wimp if I said I thought BOTH did well? (Though I’ve already learned Biden got a lot of his facts wrong). I still think the U.S. (both Biden and Palin and their respective sides) are being childish about the gay marriage thing (do we want to be like Europe or Africa?) but, all things being equal, I think it’s the economy that will decide the election. Whichever side/plan one agrees with on that issue should get ones vote.

    Comment by Michael — October 3, 2008 @ 12:59 am - October 3, 2008

  9. Pity all those aging feminists are caught in the belief that only a woman willing to kill her own children is a real woman. Otherwise they’d realize that 40 years after their movement started – proof of it’s success is standing before them.

    Comment by Leah — October 3, 2008 @ 1:00 am - October 3, 2008

  10. I can’t in good faith say that she “won.” She was passably good, sometimes stinging but she also avoided direct answers too many times for comfort. Biden was relaxed, modulated his points better, and had more sound-bites. His reference to the election of 1932, while a bit fear-mongering, was unmistakable. (We know the Dems love misery, so hopefully mending economic indicators will push that one into the memory holeby Nov. 4….)

    Indirectly, she shamed every shrewish academic-trained and/or Beltway feminist (as if they’re capable of shame) by landing blows when she could, digging in her heels when she couldn’t (but with a smile), and – something Hillary would have been loathe to do had she represented the Dems in this debate – standing by her man.

    Comment by Jeremayakovka — October 3, 2008 @ 1:07 am - October 3, 2008

  11. Don’t think it was enough to change the outcome of the election. I think what happened tonight was that Sarah cemented her status as the favorite for the 2012 nomination.

    Comment by DaveO — October 3, 2008 @ 1:21 am - October 3, 2008

  12. I was at band practice tonight (no NDT, not band camp) and I only heard a few questions. Ifll asked Palin about the 2005 credit bill that tightened the rules on bankruptcy, and Palin imediately went in some other direction, not hinting that she had heard the question. I didn’t really expect too much from Palin on the question, though she should have at least mentioned the bankruptcy in her answer, since that was what the question was about. It sounded very bad for Palin and figured Biden would use this to mop the flood with her. But then, when he responded to the same question, he also went off on some unrelated tangent, which is doulbe embarrasing since he was in the Senate when the bill went through.

    Like I say, I was busy, didn’t catch the whole debate, and have know idea who won. But this was a pretty wierd moment. And from what I’ve read, the whole night was like that.

    Comment by sonicfrog — October 3, 2008 @ 1:51 am - October 3, 2008

  13. She killed with people that weren’t sure how she would do and with a base that already was pulling for her.

    Biden outright lied on points and should have done better for a man that has been around for 36 years. The ‘we don’t do coal’, not knowing the constitution!, sounding draggy and boring when she sounded entertaining and ‘folksy’ and yes, people like that.

    Was she spot on? No…was Biden….no. could she have done better? Can’t they all? Debates are difficult for the well trained college student let alone candidates that do this only sporadically in their careers and don’t have people feeding them the questions in advance which I KNOW someone did with BIDEN. There is no way he was NOT prompted on some of those…the answers were too quick, prepared, and he even started answering a couple before the end of the question…..

    Comment by Carrie — October 3, 2008 @ 2:00 am - October 3, 2008

  14. Sometimes I think you guys who have really been around this stuff get too caught up in who hit better on points etc….the question is and should have been…who connected better with the people….welll all i can say is MY GOD WHAT A BREATH OF FRESH AIR she was!!!!! I can’t wait to hear more of her zingers…who the hell really cares who got all the questions “right” and therefore passed the test? Answer…nobody except some of you brainiacs….she won hands down …this country cna trust her…”oh Joe say it ain’t so” … “…looking backwards over your shoulder ….” God love her!!! Now this is exciting….every main street folk will have to admit that they loved that “Breath of Fresh Air” …..Change is a comin…Oh yeah… ! And she’s wearin a pair of hip-boots. BTW my brother said he just filled up his 300 gallon of fuel she got them all for the winter…came to $1190 and still had some “change” from that $1200!

    Comment by left leaning lesbian friend — October 3, 2008 @ 2:14 am - October 3, 2008

  15. It’s all a liberal media conspiracy, huh Carrie? 🙂

    Comment by torrentprime — October 3, 2008 @ 2:25 am - October 3, 2008

  16. I think every Republican in the country is wondering what the hell is wrong with McCain, and now Palin, that they refuse to go after Obama, Biden and the Democrats directly on the financial meltdown that their policies caused and the reform that they blocked.

    Ace of Spades says what I have been hoping is true, but worried is not, that McCain is waiting for legislation to pass at which time he will come out with both guns blazing, pinning not only the above on Obama, but also nailing him for lying and being partisan instead of working to solve the problem.

    That said, it was pulling my hair out when Palin, like McCain just let Biden rattle off his lies without rebuttal. And it wasn’t just the economy, Biden was spitting out whoppers like a Burger King during the lunch rush, and almost all of them went unchallenged. That bugs the crap outta me. Every time you let a lie stand without rebuttal, people are left with no choice but to believe it.

    But McCain and Palin have, so far, been playing a different game. They’re trying to show they are the bipartisan reformers by not getting down in the mud with Obama and Biden. I would point out to them, however, that according to the polls, it aint working.

    But Palin came across as a serious, knowledgeable, principled and most importantly genuine, likable and trustworthy.

    I was disappointed that Biden didn’t ask Ifill to stand up and take a bow, but i don’t think he did himself any harm tonight. Theoretically, he should with as many lies as he told, but I don’t know how many Americans are aware how much he lied, and I doubt the media will inform them.

    Its funny how much Biden represents the beltway establishment — the way things have always been done — and how quickly and eagerly Obama has assimilated with that crowd, while McCain and Palin both have records of bucking the system, and Palin in particular is utterly devoid of everything Americans hate about Washington politics.

    Funny in that McCain and Palin as a result represent REAL change, while Obama and Biden promise nothing but the same old beltway political crap everyone hates with nothing but cosmetic change.

    They say if Obama loses it will be because of racism — au contraire — if he WINS it will be because of racism. The real change is on the other ticket.

    Comment by American Elephant — October 3, 2008 @ 2:47 am - October 3, 2008

  17. Sonicfrog,

    I agree. That moment was incredibly odd, especially considering how this issue is being handed to McCain Palin on a silver platter and they are not taking it. The fact that she just ignored the opportunity altogether and switched topics is what convinces me that Ace of Spades is correct — McCain and Palin are keeping their powder dry on the issue til the bill passes, then they are going come out strong on it.

    Comment by American Elephant — October 3, 2008 @ 2:52 am - October 3, 2008

  18. I found it insulting and seriously disturbing that Palin refused to answer questions. After 8 years of a president who refuses to answer questions, who conducts business behind closed doors, is this really what we want in a candidate? Yes, I think she was poised, but her inability to answer questions leaves me seriously doubting her abilities. What if she has to answer a question or make a decision in office?

    Not too harp on her similarities with Bush, but as far as her being folksy, I believe we tried that. We elected a president twice because we was a down home guy we’d like to have a beer with. It was a disaster. This time let’s vote for someone who knows the issues, and who understands the details. I believe McCain, Obama, and Biden all reach that level, but Palin just doesn’t. It’s hard to support McCain with her on the ticket.

    Comment by Larry W — October 3, 2008 @ 3:01 am - October 3, 2008

  19. I was at band practice tonight (no NDT, not band camp)

    Whew! My brother played trombone in HS marching and pipes with the Citadel Regimental Band. The tales I’ve heard about band camp….

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — October 3, 2008 @ 3:43 am - October 3, 2008

  20. I agree with American Elephant. McCain failure to stand up to his actual political opponents rather than trying to make nice with them is the main reason he was my very last choice for GOP candidate. If only we could switch the ticket around.

    I’d be willing to bet Palin feels constrained by McCain’s guidelines—I get the feeling she could duke it out just fine if they’d let her take off the gloves. There were so many times she could have gone for the jugular. Biden’s constant harping on equating Bush’s policies with McCain’s should not go unanswered. It would be so easy to turn the story on him—after all, he was there the entire time–what the heck has he been doing all those years! If things are so bad now, how effective has he been? Especially the past 2 years. McCain won’t go on the offense and I’ll bet he’s told her not to as well.

    Ditto with respect to financial crisis. Neither Obama nor Biden should ever be allowed to speak on this subject without someone bringing up the $100K payola Obama received from Fannie or discussing the shake-down functions of ACORN, etc. And why aren’t we hearing about the Community Reinvestment Act? And why no outrage heard over the 450 page bailout bill which passed today through the Senate with enough pork to sink Alaska! This is the sort of stuff we ought to be hearing in a debate. Does McCain still think he’s working a tea party?

    Comment by Vivian — October 3, 2008 @ 3:48 am - October 3, 2008

  21. oh, let me see if i have this right. this is the same party with the mantra of “our tax cuts are working”.

    Well they were until liberals f*cked it all up.

    I found it insulting and seriously disturbing that Palin refused to answer questions.

    Yeah. Who gives a crap if liberals refuse to answer questions. That’s par for the course, afterall. They should just run with the “Call me if you need me” slogan.

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — October 3, 2008 @ 3:50 am - October 3, 2008

  22. […] here’s the short version, technically Biden on points by a little, on atmospherics Palin by a ton. One base is energized by last night’s performance, one not […]

    Pingback by The Meck Deck » Blog Archive » All Veep Round-Up — October 3, 2008 @ 6:37 am - October 3, 2008

  23. American Elephant-I think part of the reason Palin didn’t respond to some of Biden’s ‘whoppers is because they were somewhat specific-at least some of them, and I don’t think she was prepared to rebut them. She doesn’t have the advantage of actually being in the senate to know if the “McCain voted 25 times for blah blah blah” is correct-especially since both compaigns tend to consider votes against amendments and the like as the same thing as a vote. McCain is vulnerable to this especially, because he has been known to vote “no” on legislation he supported because of pork or other issues in the amendments.

    I think she fully expects the MSM to fact check him and do the rebutting for her.

    But there is no excuse to not have a ready answer about the role the democrats played in this mess. My guess is they didn’t want to go the finger pointing route and instead wanted to go the bipartisan route, but at this point in the game and this far back playing nice isn’t going to win them anything.

    Also I do not expect the MSM to fact check Biden at all, but I am sure there is already a four page treatise rebutting everything Palin said.

    Comment by just me — October 3, 2008 @ 7:06 am - October 3, 2008

  24. It served Gov. Palin well to push the fact that she is of Main St., USA. Ultimately, voters choose candidates who they are comfortable with and not candidates who are aloof fountains of intellect. Even as far back as the early 1800s, the French sociologist Alexis deTocqueville cited three distinctive qualities Americans possess that were not prevalent on other peoples:

    1. Americans prefer issues framed in basic, black & white terms. We are reluctant to embrace nuance and gradations.

    2. Americans are the most optimistic people on Earth. To us, it has always been about becoming and being. About hope for the future and not legacies of the past.

    3. Perhaps most importantly during an election cycle, Americans strongly relate to and admire people who come off as genuine and regular folk. We possess a strong belief in the wisdom and virtues of a common people. There has always been an elagitarian strain in our nation. And knowing the attraction of populism in our culture, aspiring politicians go through extreme lengths to show that they are one with the people.

    Point 3 presented the biggest perceptual challenge to Sen. Biden that most of the media chose to ignore: there exists among Americans a pervasive view that those who spend extensive time in Washington DC risk being debased by Potomac fever, an ailment whose symptoms are arrogance, aloofness and a sudden acquisition of expertise. Problem is, Americans don’t like experts, who are seen to be people who know more and more about less and less until they eventually know everything about nothing. This is where Gov. Palin had a decisive advantage. All she had to do was reinforce who she was while Sen. Biden had to go to great pains trying to convince us that he wasn’t who we perceive him to be. As far back as the Democratic Convention, Biden speaks of his grassroots ties with the same reverence we speak of McCain’s experience in Hanoi. His Home Depot anecdote seemed a futile attempt at playing Main St. catchup with Palin after she made her effective reference to her own family’s experiences and challenges.

    Comment by Right Turn — October 3, 2008 @ 7:26 am - October 3, 2008

  25. She did want she needed to do, considering the storyline going into this debate was that Palin was going to go down in flames before the experienced might of Biden. I think a win for Palin is not whether people think she won the debate but that people view her more favorable and more presidential than when she went into it. She was suffering from lagging poll numbers and many saw her as a drain on the ticket, she needed to turn that around. I believe she did that and that people will see her as capable and comptent.

    I have great hope in Sarah Palin, whether win or lose in this election. She will definitely be apart of the Republican restoration movement, whether as governor, senator or president. I hope she continues to be herself and follow her ideals and that we get to see her again if McCain loses.

    On the electoral front, I think this stops the slide and gives McCain a place to launch from. Palin will be out there and continue to inspire people, but McCain has to win the election and break through on these last debates.

    Comment by Darkeyedresolve — October 3, 2008 @ 7:32 am - October 3, 2008

  26. Palin let many of Biden’s whoppers go by because to try to unravel them would have hurt the tempo of the debate and gotten into a quibbling contest.

    Very few people will remember the points of discussion as well as they recall the enthusiasm, authenticity and personality of the debater.

    Palin left Biden mumbling. He was so-o-o-o full of elite charm and dusty references to things gone by that he looked like the next lodge brother thinks it is his turn to wear the raccoon robe.

    I thought Palin took the lead when she forced Biden to say where he and Obama stand on gay marriage. She kept track of the useful questions and called Biden when he wandered. She abandoned the questions she didn’t like for things she wanted to talk about. Neither Biden nor Ifill hectored her for it. It was a good move.

    Comment by heliotrope — October 3, 2008 @ 7:32 am - October 3, 2008

  27. She missed a few opportunities, but she hit them a lot more often than not.

    Comment by Mitchell Blatt — October 3, 2008 @ 8:32 am - October 3, 2008

  28. I’m new to this blog, but have enjoyed reading. Last night’s debate gave me a better opinion of Sarah Palin, I found Biden to repetative. If he said “fundamental difference” one more time, I was going to scream. It’s hard to be a gay patriot, but if I can protect my individual freedoms and keep government size and social programs reasonably constrained, then that’s how I choose my candidates.

    Comment by Vanessa — October 3, 2008 @ 8:39 am - October 3, 2008

  29. […] GayPatriot » Palin Connects with Main Street, Biden with Washington […]

    Pingback by Another liberal double-standard. Surprise! « The Right Daily — October 3, 2008 @ 8:44 am - October 3, 2008

  30. It was ROCKY, with Rocky vs. Apollo Creed. Biden was the winner-by-an edge, but Governor Palin score a victory with the people.

    The Cranky Old Guy/Palin 2008!

    P.S. And she looked hot!

    Comment by Julie the Jarhead — October 3, 2008 @ 9:17 am - October 3, 2008

  31. I thought that it served Gov. Palin well to push the fact that she is of Main St., USA. That doesn’t fly here in NYC but ultimately voters choose candidates who they are comfortable with and not candidates who are aloof fountains of intellect. Even as far back as the early 1800s, the French sociologist Alexis deTocqueville cited three distinctive qualities Americans possess that were not prevalent on other peoples:

    1. Americans prefer issues framed in basic, black & white terms. We are reluctant to embrace nuance and gradations.

    2. Americans are the most optimistic people on Earth. To us, it has always been about becoming and being. About hope for the future and not legacies of the past.

    3. Perhaps most importantly during an election cycle, Americans strongly relate to and admire people who come off as genuine and regular folk. We possess a strong belief in the wisdom and virtues of a common people. There has always been an elagitarian strain in our nation. And knowing the attraction of populism in our culture, aspiring politicians go through extreme lengths to show that they are one with the people.

    Point 3 presented the biggest perceptual challenge to Sen. Biden that most of the media chose to ignore: there exists among Americans a pervasive view that those who spend extensive time in Washington DC risk being debased by Potomac fever, an ailment whose symptoms are arrogance, aloofness and a sudden acquisition of expertise. Problem is, Americans don’t like experts, who are seen to be people who know more and more about less and less until they eventually know everything about nothing. This is where Gov. Palin had a decisive advantage. All she had to do was reinforce who she was while Sen. Biden had to go to great pains trying to convince us that he wasn’t who we perceive him to be. As far back as the Democratic Convention, Biden speaks of his grassroots ties with the same reverence we speak of McCain’s experience in Hanoi. His Home Depot anecdote seemed a futile attempt at playing Main St. catchup with Palin after she made her effective reference to her own family’s experiences and challenges.

    Comment by Right Turn — October 3, 2008 @ 9:22 am - October 3, 2008

  32. heliotrope, I like your take. Palin let some crap go by and wandered on some of her own answers, but a TV debater wins by telling her own story, not by crushing the other guy obsessively. Good point.

    I loved it when she did nail Biden on how he used to say Obama is dangerously unqualified, and on how backward-looking he and the Left are. Even Biden was embarrassed and could do nothing but grin like a five-year-old who was just caught.

    My one serious criticism of Palin: her “gay answer” grated, the way she kept emphasizing “tolerance” and “toleration” and how “tolerant” she is, as if we’re a disease. Sorry ma’am, but we’re not. I understand you disagree with us on gay marriage, but that’s another question.

    Biden’s “gay answer” was equally grating: He kept talking about **giving gays things that we already have**, like hospital visitation. How very generous. Until finally Ifill pushed him into admitting that he and Palin have the same positions on gay issues (or at least he would like Middle America to think so).

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — October 3, 2008 @ 9:27 am - October 3, 2008

  33. I just want to know who the Bosniaks are? “Mr. Worf, there’s a Bosniak star cruiser decloaking off the port bow.”

    Comment by V the K — October 3, 2008 @ 9:49 am - October 3, 2008

  34. During the debate, Biden claimed to have recently met with patrons at Katie’s Diner in Wilmington. Problem: That diner closed eighteen years ago.

    Comment by V the K — October 3, 2008 @ 9:57 am - October 3, 2008

  35. the term Bosniak’s killed me too! Thank you for correcting my spelling…..I thought it was spelled with a “C”

    jeb

    Comment by Jeb — October 3, 2008 @ 9:59 am - October 3, 2008

  36. AE, Palin didn’t answer the credit question because she clearly had absolutely no idea what the bill was that Ifill was talking about. She went to a programed response. So did Biden. It’s one of the techniques you use for those kind of moments, when you have no recall of details concerning a question.

    American Elephant-I think part of the reason Palin didn’t’t respond to some of Biden’s ‘whoppers is because they were somewhat specific-at least some of them, and I don’t think she was prepared to rebut them.

    I agree, and this is true of both candidates. Palin has had a month to get up to speed, and is no where close to being up on all the minute details of Biden and Obama’s histories. Biden has less of an excuse, but the press has let “Biden be Biden” for so long, that, well, why should he care about getting details right. He’s used to getting a free pass.

    I could go on, but why. I just want to remind everyone that It’s easy for us to Monday morning quarterback. Much harder when you’re in the game.

    Comment by sonicfrog — October 3, 2008 @ 10:06 am - October 3, 2008

  37. In light of the debate, I found this video interesting:

    http://hotair.com/archives/2008/09/30/palin-talks-gays-feminism-abortion-and-evolution-with-couric/

    Another couple things I will say against Palin, after seeing it:

    – If she doesn’t want to answer a question, man, she will not answer it. Standard political tactics, but I thought Palin was supposed to be better than that.

    – She talks about homosexuality being a choice. Bzzzzzzt, again wrong answer, honey. Behavior / lifestyle is always a choice, but the disposition to be attracted to one gender rather than another is not.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — October 3, 2008 @ 10:06 am - October 3, 2008

  38. On the gay issue….recall that it has to be filtered down to “them regular” Americans. I take it all in stride. I remember the days of yore.

    We have to show tolerance to those that are forced to walk a VERY thin line.

    Notice Biden did the same thing…it is a fact of life for now. He make a direct comment about visitation of “loved” ones in the hospital.

    I am in healthcare and I know from experience NO ONE is prevented from visiting a loved one because they are NOT the spouse. They even let little kids in these days.

    Medical decisions should be put into a durable power of attorney and its just lack of personal responsibility to neglect the very important legal documents.

    Jeb

    Comment by Jeb — October 3, 2008 @ 10:10 am - October 3, 2008

  39. Jeb, agree.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — October 3, 2008 @ 10:18 am - October 3, 2008

  40. 27, Speaking of Star Trek: TNG, doesn’t Senator Biden remind you of the Enterprise’s interim Captain Jellico (the guy who stepped in for Picard to negotiate with the Cardassians?)

    Comment by Right Turn — October 3, 2008 @ 10:26 am - October 3, 2008

  41. ” She talks about homosexuality being a choice. Bzzzzzzt, again wrong answer, honey. Behavior / lifestyle is always a choice, but the disposition to be attracted to one gender rather than another is not.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — October 3, 2008 @ 10:06 am – October 3, 2008 ”

    How do you explain folks like Tammy Bruce who say they made the choice?

    Comment by Vince P — October 3, 2008 @ 10:33 am - October 3, 2008

  42. ILC, your reaction to “tolerance” is understandable and justified. However, “tolerance” is a level that a vocal number on the Christian right still haven’t accepted. Palin has been smeared for being a knuckledragging fundamentalist. Her message of “tolerance” was a clear signal the fundamentalists, not gays.

    Hopefully, a gay would not come away from her remarks feeling that she meant “barely tolerate” or was signaling disdain.

    Comment by heliotrope — October 3, 2008 @ 10:38 am - October 3, 2008

  43. You know, Washington DC is filled with experience politicians and experts… and where has it gotten us?

    We’d be a hell of a lot better off if Congress were filled with Sarah Palins instead of Joe Bidenses.

    Comment by V the K — October 3, 2008 @ 11:15 am - October 3, 2008

  44. Bill O’Reilly is Class-A dickhead, BUT, Watch him rip Barney Frank to blood little pieces.

    Comment by V the K — October 3, 2008 @ 11:19 am - October 3, 2008

  45. V. that was a perfect demonstration of why O’Reiley is so lame. There are plenty of other quotes to nail Frank on, as he has a LONG history of resisting regulation of the GSE’s..

    And further, anyone who listens to Barney Frank on investing DESERVES to lose their money!!! 🙂

    Comment by sonicfrog — October 3, 2008 @ 12:14 pm - October 3, 2008

  46. I found it insulting and seriously disturbing that Palin refused to answer questions.

    But I’m sure you consider it perfectly normal that Obama refuses to answer questions about his association with domestic terrorist Bill Ayers, his relationship with convicted felon and briber Tony Rezko, his support and endorsement of noted racist and anti-American bigot Jeremiah Wright, his illegal payments to voter-fraud organization ACORN, his endorsement of convicted perjurer and racist Kwame Kilpatrick, his endorsement of tax cheat Charlie Rangel, his support of lawsuits forcing banks to lend to those with terrible credit because they have a certain skin color…..

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — October 3, 2008 @ 12:15 pm - October 3, 2008

  47. I felt like I was watching the combination of a female Ronald Reagan and an American version of Maggie Thatcher. Both were treated as light weights when they first ran for President in 1980 and when Thatcher ran for PM in 1979 and we know how that went.

    I wished that Palin had slammed home the point on Fannie and Freddie but my guess is that McCain/Palin are going to do that after the House votes on the bailout package (if it passes) and we will see them run a very populist campaign (we will cut your taxes, give you Energy Independence, provide freedom of choice that you decide in health care) reign in government spending and win the the war on terror.)

    That is the campaign they need to run and keep doing it and do so in the states Bush won in 2000 and 2004 (and that also means try to win Wisconsin and MN where Bush barely lost, hold onto Iowa
    and add NH and the plan was to try and peel away 2 electoral votes in Maine since it bases its Electoral vote on winning Congressional districts.)

    As has been said, its ironic that the real candidates for change are McCain and Palin considering the MSM keeps saying its old Joe and Nobama….which we all know otherwise.

    I am hoping that its give ’em hell Harry Truman style non stop campaigning and rip apart Nobama and bring out all the negatives for its now or never….and we are too close to never and the start of 4 to 8 years of Marxist hell.

    I believe that Palin hit a grand slam and connected to real Americans. Peggy Noonan got it right….Palin did an amazing job and it will be how she is perceived as someone that connects to us as real Americans since she is one….the inside the beltway snickered all the time, along with the MSM, about Reagan and we know they were wrong then and still are and I watched the likes of Matthews and Olberman (after watching Fox and CNN) and they really disgusted me and CNN wasn’t much better…..these elites just don’t get it….and I am still counting on real Americans who do get it and will put Country First instead of putting our hands in extreme liberals/Marxists, who will make Jimmy Carter look and the Carter hellish years look wonderful in comparison.

    Comment by Rocket — October 3, 2008 @ 12:23 pm - October 3, 2008

  48. How do you explain folks like Tammy Bruce who say they made the choice?

    Choice of behavior? Or choice of orientation? As I said, lifestyle & behavior are always a choice. The only way the point is interesting, then, is if you or Tammy were trying to make a claim about orientation. I’ll assume that.

    Orientation *is* (i.e., may be defined as) the part that’s innate and not a choice. To talk about it being chosen is nonsensical by definition. Kinsey found that each person’s orientation falls somewhere on a scale or continuum. On a scale of 1 (totally attracted to opposite sex) to 6 (totally attracted to same sex), you might be a 4.12 if we analyzed you closely and truthfully enough… while I might be a 5.53… whatever. Now, some people’s orientation does fall in the 2-4 range. In other words, there are some bisexuals or near-bisexuals among the population. Other studies have found that women are a little more likely to be such people than men are.

    Putting it all together: take a female near-bisexual with an ego, who for whatever political or ideological reasons needs to believe/announce that her orientation was a “choice” – which her lifestyle certainly was/is – and you have Tammy Bruce.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — October 3, 2008 @ 12:28 pm - October 3, 2008

  49. Long story short: Some part of homosexuality is behavior, some part is orientation. Behavior is chosen, because behavior is by definition “the part that’s chosen”. Orientation is innate or not chosen, because orientation is by definition “the part that’s innate or not chosen”. I explain Tammy Bruce by her simply not understanding / agreeing what the words mean.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — October 3, 2008 @ 12:31 pm - October 3, 2008

  50. And the winner for the day; Biden states that Obama supports arbitrarily reducing the amount that you owe on mortgages when you demand it.

    Or, in other words, go ahead and take out a mortgage you can’t pay; Obama will force the bank to pay it for you.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — October 3, 2008 @ 12:32 pm - October 3, 2008

  51. P.S. And yes, I oversimplified Kinsey… sorry for that.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — October 3, 2008 @ 12:33 pm - October 3, 2008

  52. LW: I found it insulting and seriously disturbing that Palin refused to answer questions.

    NDT: But I’m sure you consider it perfectly normal that Obama refuses to answer questions…

    Exactly. Selective outrage. Very, very selective.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — October 3, 2008 @ 12:44 pm - October 3, 2008

  53. oops..I left out a sentence on my comment#44…I just saw Sarah Palin say she and Todd Palin would go to Michigan and speak to workers at the plants and say we know you are hurting and a McCain/Palin Administration won’t let you down and fight for you to keep your jobs and help you get new jobs. I hope that McCain utilizes Palin’s superior campaign skills to good use.

    I will also make this prediction (this race so reminds me of 1976 and McCain being the decent guy that he is) and that Palin reminds me of Ronald Reagan in that I truly believe she will be elected President (if she is VP, she will be elected President in 2012 since I am betting McCain would only serve one term) and in the event that Nobama is elected, Sarah to the rescue in 2012 and she will be elected President.

    We will need Palin more then ever then!!

    Comment by Rocket — October 3, 2008 @ 1:30 pm - October 3, 2008

  54. Larry,

    This time let’s vote for someone who knows the issues, and who understands the details.

    You mean like Joe Biden who has been in the senate for 36 years and still doesnt know which article of the contitution establishes the legislative body?

    You mean like Joe Biden who thinks that the first article of the constitution establishes the executive branch?

    You mean like Joe Biden who thinks that the constitution doesn’t establish the Vice President as the leader of the Senate? (I’ll give you a hint, theres a reason the Speaker of the House and the Vice President sit behind the President during the State of the Union and not the Speaker and Senate Majority Leader or the Speaker and the President Pro Tempore. For that matter, there is a reason for the term President Pro Tempore — “pro tem” meaning “for the time being”)

    You mean like Joe Biden who thinks that the constitution mandates gay marriage?

    You mean like Joe Biden who thinks that FDR was president and spoke to the nation on TV in 1929?

    You mean like Joe Biden who thinks that we are spending more in Iraq in one month than we do in Afghanistan in 6 years? A figure that is off by 2000 percent?

    You mean like Joe Biden who thinks that we kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon?

    You mean like Joe Biden who says every Republican but McCain supported the nuclear test ban treaty? when in fact McCain was one of 50 Republican senators who voted against it?

    You mean Joe Biden who supported the Mullahs rise to power in Iran?

    You mean Joe Biden who opposed Reagans policies toward the Soviet Union?

    You mean Joe Biden who opposed the Gulf War? and the surge?

    Or perhaps you mean like Barack Obama who thinks there are 60 states, 57 of which he believes he has visited?

    You mean like Barack Obama who thinks that an asthma attack is not an emergent situation and only requires a breathylizer?

    You mean like Barack Obama who thinks his uncle liberated Auchwitz?

    You mean like Barack Obama who thinks 10,000 people died in a tornado in Kansas?

    You mean like Barack Obama who thinks his own conception was inspired by the march in Sema Alabama which happened 4 years after his birth?

    You mean like Barack Obama who thinks a nuclear armed Iran is not a serious threat?

    You mean like Barack Obama who thinks Kennedy averted the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962 by talking to Kruschev in 1961?

    You mean like Barack Obama who thinks we should send our arabic translators to Afghanistan?

    You mean like Obama who thinks Chavez came to power while Bush was president?

    Yes, Larry, let’s vote for someone who knows the issues, lets vote for someone who understands the details… lets vote for John McCain!

    Comment by American Elephant — October 3, 2008 @ 2:30 pm - October 3, 2008

  55. American Elephant, stop holding back. Say what you really mean.

    Comment by Right Turn — October 3, 2008 @ 2:39 pm - October 3, 2008

  56. One of the most inane comments by Biden was “hey we’re not going to just demand banks forgo the interest on mortgages but work to adjust the principle if your family is struggling.” Holy crap do these people understand capitalism? Who would loan money if they can’t count on interest and no principle? Dumb very dumb. This one comment should cause the Dems to lose the election.

    Comment by Gene in Pennsylvania — October 3, 2008 @ 3:00 pm - October 3, 2008

  57. What’s worse is that the bill just passed allows the government to do exactly that on the mortgages they buy. Corruptocrat Maxine Waters, she of the kickbacks to family members, was all excited about how now the government could just write down the principal of these loans in the name of making them “affordable”.

    Differently put: Maxine’s pet voter buys a house that there’s no way they can afford on a stupid mortgage for $400k and goes into default; Maxine buys the loan for $400k, waves her magic want and reduces the principal to an “affordable” $200k; buyer walks away with a $200k profit for their stupid decision, and taxpayers end up soaked for $200k.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — October 3, 2008 @ 3:07 pm - October 3, 2008

  58. I have trouble remembering that many, if not most, Americans dont watch a debate the way I do. I watch a debate to see a debate. I watch to see point and counterpoint and score performances in that regard. Most people seem to be interested in who they connect with, who they trust. In that regard, Palin won.

    And with that in mind, the best, the most effective line of the whole night? Sarah Palin giving a “shout-out” to the 3rd grade in Wasilla and telling them they get extra credit for watching the debate.

    Many politicians have promised in one way or another to take government away from the beltway elites and give it back to the people. No politician has ever made the federal government so accessable to citizens as Sarah Palin did with that statement — so completely unthinkable to the poseurs in Washington — and so very genuine.

    And on a different note, I wouldnt count on McCain going after Dems on Fannie and Freddy — I recommend people email his campaign and demand it.

    Comment by American Elephant — October 3, 2008 @ 3:09 pm - October 3, 2008

  59. I try right turn 🙂

    And GPW, I got filtered again!

    Comment by American Elephant — October 3, 2008 @ 3:14 pm - October 3, 2008

  60. Worse than that NDT.

    How are banks supposed to write mortgages knowing some judge can arbitrarily re-write them? The response of bankers would be to raise credit eligibility requirements so they only make loans to people they are sure will pay them back. That would freeze out people with weak credit, who are disproportionately poorer and darker. So the banks get accused of “redlining,” and we’re right back where we started.

    Comment by V the K — October 3, 2008 @ 3:29 pm - October 3, 2008

  61. Even worse than that, V the K; banks now know that they can write whatever fool thing they want and dump it off directly onto the government. They no longer have to worry about credit standards, because the government will absorb anything they write.

    In short, Obama and his cohorts have just recreated what screwed up the system in the first place — only this time, they’re skipping the middleman and just setting it up so that banks can bill the taxpayer directly for their bad loans.

    This is why I was so adamant over at Ace that the government LOAN the money to the banks and the banks be forced to keep the bad assets. Until they have to deal with the consequences, they won’t.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — October 3, 2008 @ 3:45 pm - October 3, 2008

  62. […] Palin Connects with Main Street, Biden with Washington […]

    Pingback by GayPatriot » Sarah Palin–Reaganesque — October 3, 2008 @ 4:00 pm - October 3, 2008

  63. OK, boys and girls, name the member of either house of Congress you feel could be the CEO or CFO of a major bank, fund group, investment house, insurance company, or 16 unit “rent-a-dent” car rental agency.

    The concept that these professional political pimps can direct any part of the economy is a tragic farce. Not one of them is qualified to be dirt under the fingernail of the invisible hand of capitalism.

    The difference between Biden and Palin is that Palin knows she is a mere mortal. Biden, on the other hand, has discovered the source of global warming and can predict the outcome of a hurricane for months after it occurs. He is a the master of all he purveys. And, he has a safe seat. Since age 29 he has worn the purple banded toga and walked past giants of stone in Statuary Hall with an air of accomplishment, that is totally unearned and undiscovered.

    A Congress of Palins would be delightful. They might even “put America first.” They would certainly be leagues better than the ship of fools currently bobbing the waves of Lake Sinecure.

    Comment by heliotrope — October 3, 2008 @ 4:21 pm - October 3, 2008

  64. Even the PDS-addled, Trig-Truther, Andrew Sillyman admits, Governor Palin steam-rolled Lyin’ Joe Biden.

    Comment by V the K — October 3, 2008 @ 6:54 pm - October 3, 2008

  65. like irag was

    What is that, mikey? Are you telling us it’s that time of the month for you?

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — October 4, 2008 @ 1:10 am - October 4, 2008

  66. […] Indeed, as even one of Obama’s most fervent supporters has acknowledged, his convention speech was “more unabashedly, unashamedly liberal than any Democratic acceptance speech since the great era of American liberalism.”  Echoing that supporter, one of readers observed “how quickly and eagerly Obama has assimilated with . . . the beltway establishment.” […]

    Pingback by GayPatriot » McCain Must Contrast his Record on Fiscal Reform with Obama’s Empty Rhetoric — October 7, 2008 @ 6:18 pm - October 7, 2008

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