There is no better description on why the Republican Revolution HAD TO FAIL, it was there was philosophy that was not consistent.
If that will not change you end up running for limited government but spending and spending again and achieve nothing

and eight years from now we’ll still be arguing about ending DADT and DOMA.

On DOMA I believe you are right, but hope you aren’t when it comes to DADT. If we are still discussing DADT 8 years from now, well… let’s just say tha the Dems have no excuses after holding both the executive and legislative branches.

The social cons will have to drop opposition to evolution, the moderates will have to accept some restrictions on abortion.

Agreed. I’d add though that the social cons are going to have to stop torpedoing candidates like Giuliani who might be more personally liberal socially but was willing to work with them on judges. I’d also add that they are going to have to do better when it comes to gays. Their current position when it comes to the law (I leave their religious beliefs for them to sort out or not) is completely unacceptable.

I also disagree, abortion was not Rudy’s only problem. He had a history of supporting severe restrictions on gun ownership, a train wreck of a family life, he endorsed Mario Cuomo over George Pataki for governor, sanctuary cities for illegal aliens, and a flawed strategy that wrote off the small early states. (In other words, he wrote off small state voters as dumb hicks.)

And Gingrich didn’t have a wreck of a family life? There are many cons who are on their second or third marriages, including the current GOP nominee. What about the Gang of 14, “comprehensive immigration reform”, etc.? No, the social cons torpedoed a good candidate because they didn’t a sycophant like the Huckster.

And, anyway, when did 25,000 people show up and stand out in the hot sun for hours and hours to hear Giuliani speak? Outside of maybe some post-911 fundraising thing.

When did Palin draw 25,000 people prior to being picked for Veep? Yes, the fact that she’s a woman, and a conservative woman at that, as well as her own interpersonal skills have much to do with this, but so does her being the Veep nominee. Remember Giuliani’s speech at the convention? I have little doubt that the could draw such crowds if he had the nomination.

The GOP brand wasn’t tarnished by the Foley “scandal” or moderate leadership –that distinction belongs to social conservatives like Tom Delay and others who took the unique opportunity to strike for real reform in our federal govt and instead debased that time chasing self-interest, self aggrandizement and wantonly gluttoness spending that would make a drunken sailor jealous.

I agree that Delay et al deserve a heap of blame for what has transpired, and Lord knows I’m tired of the social cons and their pet peeves, but VtheK is correct as well when he says that Repulican liberals have some fault in this. Foley was indeed a factor in 2006 but it would have only been a minor blip if the GOP hadn’t of alienated so much of the electorate prior to then through very poor governance.

But if we’re going to blame the party for tarnishing conservatism, that blame must start at the top. It was President Bush who submitted and signed off on the massive increases in Federal Spending. Bush has governed more like a blue-dog Democrat than a conservative Republican, with a very expansive view of the role of the Federal government.

Absolutely. The Left certainly went waaaaaay overboard with their loathing of the man, but Bush definitely does deserve the lion’s share of the blame. I like the man personally and he has done some good things as president, but this all does make me wonder sometimes if it might have been better that McCain had won the nomination in 2000 instead of him.

But I don’t think finger-pointing and recriminations are going to help rebuild the party. Moderates are going to show they have to stand for something other than disdain for conservatives if the party is going to be rebuilt.

That’s a two-way street, V. Social cons haven’t shown such consideration for Republican moderates. They are excoriated by social cons at every chance.

As far as Obama getting eight years, you people have more faith in socialism than I do, frankly.

Believe me, I would love it if Obama were defeated in 2012 but I question whether that will be the case. This is all speculative anyways at the moment since none of us know what will happen over the next 4 years. Besides, we could get the surprise of our lives if McCain somehow pulls it out in the end and eeks into office this year. I seriously doubt that will happen, but who knows?

John – I agree with your assessment. The Virginia Republican Party will need to remake itself in the image of New England Republicans – fiscally conservative, but socially liberal. The urbanization of Northern Virginia just will not allow anything else.

Social conservatism isn’t the problem per se, it’s the inflexibility and inability to compromise. Add to this that many social cons want to use the power of government to enforce their views on social matters and frankly I see no difference between them and the Dems on that regard. A social con can easily win in Virginia, but they’d have to be more like Palin, i.e. one who may hold strong personal beliefs but doesn’t seek to use the law to impose them onto the rest of us – especially at the expense of good overall governance. This is the problem the Virginia GOP has had.

If Romney and Palin both spend the next four years making a high-profile case against Obamunism, they will become the leaders of the Resistance, and the party. You can bet your ass no GOP moderate is going to be out there making that case.

Not even Giuliani? I think he will.

I am worried that as has been said we have 8 yrs of Marxist Nobama and Motor Mouth Joe…..

The one person that could do bring back America is Palin in 2012….and like you V the K I will all I can to help Sarah Palin get elected President in 2012.

But if we’re going to blame the party for tarnishing conservatism, that blame must start at the top. It was President Bush who submitted and signed off on the massive increases in Federal Spending. Bush has governed more like a blue-dog Democrat than a conservative Republican, with a very expansive view of the role of the Federal government.

But I don’t think finger-pointing and recriminations are going to help rebuild the party. Moderates are going to show they have to stand for something other than disdain for conservatives if the party is going to be rebuilt.

As far as Obama getting eight years, you people have more faith in socialism than I do, frankly.

Couldn’t agree more; bravo. But it’s more than just putting aside differences –it’s where we want to head, the Party’s vision, how we return to political power in the wake of last 8 yrs.

One of the biggest differences we (real GOPers) all need to put aside is the notion that canablizing GOP office holders because they aren’t “conservative” enough for today’s definition isn’t a winning, pragmatic political strategy. Cutting party strength and letting the opposing team grab the playing field may have set up a Reagan win in 1980, but it spells disaster in 2008. Obama may do for the Democrats and liberal ideology what Reagan did for the GOP and conservatives… and a 25+ yr legacy is a cruel hoax to have played out in order to prove who’s more conservative, more true to core within the GOP.

The GOP brand wasn’t tarnished by the Foley “scandal” or moderate leadership –that distinction belongs to social conservatives like Tom Delay and others who took the unique opportunity to strike for real reform in our federal govt and instead debased that time chasing self-interest, self aggrandizement and wantonly gluttoness spending that would make a drunken sailor jealous.

I know this much, though, if McCain-Palin lose, it’ll be the Party faithful inside the GOP who determine where the Party heads in the next 4 yrs and how we get there… not people who have folded their hands and sit out on the sidelines during the single greatest test of democratic leadership in our lifetime. Canablizing office holders and purging the Party of supposed RINOs is a great strategy for selling conservative talk radio time… but it sucks when the result is to capitulate the field to Obama, Biden, Pelosi and Reid.

Frankly, after 4 or 8 yrs of Obama, the country will be ready for any kind of moderation –not more extreme. And the plurality of voters will have to decide if the GOP of yesteryear is good enough anymore.

There’s plenty of blame to go around. But both sides… conservative and moderate… are going to have to put aside differences. The social cons will have to drop opposition to evolution, the moderates will have to accept some restrictions on abortion. It will help if the moderates stop treating socially conservative people as just dumb hicks. Maybe the horrors of Obamunism will be enough to help them work things out.

I also disagree, abortion was not Rudy’s only problem. He had a history of supporting severe restrictions on gun ownership, a train wreck of a family life, he endorsed Mario Cuomo over George Pataki for governor, sanctuary cities for illegal aliens, and a flawed strategy that wrote off the small early states. (In other words, he wrote off small state voters as dumb hicks.)