The fact remains I was quoting your own examples, that I only used two as examples instead of citing all four doesnt make it a straw man. it makes it a partial quote. Believe me, your argument isnt any stronger if I quote you in your intirety, engraved in 24k gold plate.

You know whats unattractive? Is a full grown man lying and acting like a complete child because he made bad arguments and got slammed. I’m done with you.

Number one and number three

And now dashes carry numeric meaning? Wow. I guess you get to assign any meaning you want to people’s words. What a great tactic. How attractive it makes you.

Funny how you forgot to mention the money quote

You seriously wish I had re-quoted even more of my words? Fine, I’ll oblige you. First your words as the setup:

[AE:] Before the economic meltdown, the major sources of discontent in America were not No Child Left Behind and the prescription drug benefit.

OK, here is the re-quote for you, AE, with emphasis added: *****Of course I never said they were.*****.

Get it? I’ll do it again, if it pleases you: *****Of course I never said they were.*****. *****Of course I never said they were.*****. *****Of course I never said they were.*****. *****Of course I never said they were.*****. *****Of course I never said they were.*****. *****Of course I never said they were.*****.

Saying that my major point was that NCLB and presciption drugs were the major source of discontent in America, AE, is your sad invention.

Before the economic meltdown, the major sources of discontent in America were not No Child Left Behind and the prescription drug benefit

And of course I never said they were. Now you’re using “straw man” tactics. You should know AE, from past encounters with me, how little patience I have for people who pull that stuff.

But as you noted above, you most certainly did say they were among them. In fact, according to you they were the number one and number three reasons:

#53 – Bush is unpopular for *many* reasons, and among them are indeed his non-conservative positions, such as:
- Massive increases in entitlements [what other massive increases in entitlements are there other than the prescription drug benefit?]
- Reckless non-entitlement spending
- Absurd and harmful compromises with top liberals, like No Child Left Behind or his signature of *McCain-Feingold*

Number one and number three according to you! Number two is too vague to specify.

And yet “you never said any such thing” and *I’m raising a “straw man” by quoting your own reasons back to you.

Sorry, you’re full of it. That’s not a straw man, ILC, that’s a quote. Its not a misrepresentation, its a refutation. Learn the difference, get over yourself, and learn how to admit when you’re wrong. But of course, that would take integrity.

[AE:] I’ve quoted ILC above, saying exactly what he claims he never said.

Not at all. You framed and misinterpreted my words to make them fit your inventions.

As you suggest, anyone can read the thread for themselves. Why don’t we do that now? Here is what I said:

#53 – Bush is unpopular for *many* reasons, and among them are indeed his non-conservative positions, such as:
- Massive increases in entitlements
- Reckless non-entitlement spending
- Absurd and harmful compromises with top liberals, like No Child Left Behind or his signature of *McCain-Feingold*.
[...]
- Failure to reform Social Security, while the Republicans still had majority control of Congress.
- Ditto on his failure to reform Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac… thereby causing our current economic and financial crisis.
- Proposing hideously wrong, neo-socialist bailouts to solve the current crisis.

Emphasis added. I described *seven* distinct items, and left an implication that one could add to the list. (Which V the K later did in effect, citing immigration policy.) I noted a lengthy series of Bush leadership failures on domestic issues, with the obvious and intentional implication that the accumulation of *many* such failures over eight years have led to the bad results that he, and we, are now experiencing.

I quickly made my point more explicit:

#57 – If Bush hadn’t pissed off so many liberty-loving conservatives and Independents / centrists with his unique combination of (a) failed attempts at good domestic policies and (b) downright bad domestic policies, his ratings would be in the 40s/50s…. not the low 30s / high 20s.

In keeping with the intellectually and morally correct tradition of *citing examples* for one’s points, and of continuing to try to make one’s point clear to people who just don’t seem able or willing to get it, I made yet another attempt, saying:

#59 – Joe [the Plumber] rightly said that *Social Security* is “a joke” and he deeply resents having to pay into it…
*Presidents are supposed to exhibit this quality called… leadership. Bush spent his on the wrong issues – again, NCLB, insane new entitlements, *etc.*

#61 – Taking a more *general* view – There’s no getting around it: On domestic policy and on protecting his own reputation (as I noted), Bush has been a gigantic failure, as a communicator and as a leader.

Emphasis added. My point is or should be obvious. I spelled it out several times. It was, again, that Bush’s *cumulative lack* of leadership on *many* domestic issues – BOTH his making only lame efforts at good and necessary policies, AND his making powerful efforts at many different bad and unnecessary policies – has led to the bad results we are now seeing, that has pissed off Bush’s natural supporters. After after providing MANY examples – not just two – and after carefully acknowledging one of Bush’s domestic successes, i.e., tax policy, I made my point explicit yet again:

#89 – again it comes down to Bush’s lack of leadership on most domestic issues. On every one of the symptoms [V the K] cites, Bush has either (1) made pathetically lame attempts at good policies, or (2) had downright *wrong* policies. Accumulate numerous examples of that over 8 years, and you’ll have a bunch of ordinary Americans deeply pissed at the symptoms / results. That’s what I’ve been talking about.

But by the time I said that, AE had already long since warped and twisted my words into his own convenient invention, namely, that somehow my point had been merely that “the major sources of discontent in America were… No Child Left Behind and the prescription drug benefit.”

*Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt. Wrong answer.*

Let those with eyes to see, see now. And, this is my last reply here.

You’re simply a liar.

Anyone who cares to can scroll up and see for themselves.

“etc” for your information, does not mean, “I didnt just say what i just said”

All the integrity of Bill Clinton. Seriously, get bent. I have less than zero respect for you now.

Sorry, but the proof is all there. I’ve quoted ILC above, saying exactly what he claims he never said. And caught red handed, he pulls some Clintonian BS and pretends that the word “etc” somehow negated the rest of his statement.

That’s not integrity. That’s not honest. That’s blatant lying. That’s not being able to admit when you’re wrong — the opposite of integrity.

Unfortunately, with only economic conservates and national security conservatives on board, you get 1964. The difference between Goldwater ’64 & Reagan ’80 was the third leg of the triad. Defining “social conservative” narrowly defined as the religious right (because broadly defined it would additionally include immigration, RKBA, toughness on crime, opposition to race-based preferences, etc…), then I agree that their issues are a distraction from things that I personally find much more important. I will also agree that they scare away a certain number of libertarians and right/libertarian-leaning moderates. Unfortunately, they bring more votes (and energy as campaign volunteers, and money, and organization) to the table than they scare away. So, I don’t see a viable path to electoral success without them on the team.

Both of you are great people and add an enormous amount to the conversation on here. It bugs me to see you at each other’s throats.

We have had a major terror attack and a GOP president who spent like a drunken Democrat. I renounced my Dem party membership after 9/11; I will not register Republican until they return to the fiscal and federal conservatism that the Founders enumerated. I listen to Rush and read Hayek. And I’m waiting.

P.S. Thank you V for answering like a good guy – not calling me names, pulling straw-man bullsh*t, etc.