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	<title>Comments on: Dear Elaine Donnellyâ€¦</title>
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	<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/10/27/dear-elaine-donnelly%e2%80%a6/</link>
	<description>The Internet home for American gay conservatives.</description>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/10/27/dear-elaine-donnelly%e2%80%a6/comment-page-1/#comment-327261</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 11:49:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6109#comment-327261</guid>
		<description>Well, since I&#039;ve been off for a couple of days and this thread has essentially died I&#039;ll just say that I disagree with the both of youz and leave it at that.  ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, since I&#8217;ve been off for a couple of days and this thread has essentially died I&#8217;ll just say that I disagree with the both of youz and leave it at that.  <img src='http://www.gaypatriot.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: American Elephant</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/10/27/dear-elaine-donnelly%e2%80%a6/comment-page-1/#comment-326670</link>
		<dc:creator>American Elephant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 09:29:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6109#comment-326670</guid>
		<description>Powell is still highly-respected? With all the backstabbing, leaking and sabotage he has engaged in? Even after he let people like Scooter Libby and Vice President Cheney twist in the wind for months knowing full well it was his deputy Armitage that leaked Plame&#039;s identity?

I agree that good people and good conservatives can support repeal of DADT, just not so sure I agree that Powell is good people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Powell is still highly-respected? With all the backstabbing, leaking and sabotage he has engaged in? Even after he let people like Scooter Libby and Vice President Cheney twist in the wind for months knowing full well it was his deputy Armitage that leaked Plame&#8217;s identity?</p>
<p>I agree that good people and good conservatives can support repeal of DADT, just not so sure I agree that Powell is good people.</p>
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		<title>By: ILoveCapitalism</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/10/27/dear-elaine-donnelly%e2%80%a6/comment-page-1/#comment-326590</link>
		<dc:creator>ILoveCapitalism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 02:48:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6109#comment-326590</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Even if Powell supported repeal of DADT, this would in no way make him a discredited military leader as she states.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Sorry, she doesn&#039;t state that.  She even injected a qualifying &quot;If&quot; - two times.  No amount of claiming that present vs. past tense, a significant difference, is unimportant or Clintonian in English interpretation will alter that.

I say, fighting the bitch effectively starts with representing her comments fairly enough that even she would have to agree with what you&#039;ve represented.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Even if Powell supported repeal of DADT, this would in no way make him a discredited military leader as she states.</p></blockquote>
<p>Sorry, she doesn&#8217;t state that.  She even injected a qualifying &#8220;If&#8221; &#8211; two times.  No amount of claiming that present vs. past tense, a significant difference, is unimportant or Clintonian in English interpretation will alter that.</p>
<p>I say, fighting the bitch effectively starts with representing her comments fairly enough that even she would have to agree with what you&#8217;ve represented.</p>
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		<title>By: blakes</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/10/27/dear-elaine-donnelly%e2%80%a6/comment-page-1/#comment-326427</link>
		<dc:creator>blakes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 20:17:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6109#comment-326427</guid>
		<description>Have to agree with John, Powell&#039;s endorsement of Obama says nothing about his military credentials.  

As for Powell being a conservative, Powell was always a liberal to moderate Republican and was on the sh@tlist of the Religious Right for this.  

The problem the GOP faces is that independents and liberal/moderate Republicans don&#039;t see a place for themselves in the party.  That is a demographic doomsday scenario.  

Younger voters are more socially liberal in general.  With the U.S. seeing increased non-white, Latino and Asian, population growth, the standard GOP use of racism to get out the vote, as seen in this and previous campaigns, is becoming a turn off.  Witness the flight of Latino voters from the GOP after the Tancredo wing of the party took off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have to agree with John, Powell&#8217;s endorsement of Obama says nothing about his military credentials.  </p>
<p>As for Powell being a conservative, Powell was always a liberal to moderate Republican and was on the sh@tlist of the Religious Right for this.  </p>
<p>The problem the GOP faces is that independents and liberal/moderate Republicans don&#8217;t see a place for themselves in the party.  That is a demographic doomsday scenario.  </p>
<p>Younger voters are more socially liberal in general.  With the U.S. seeing increased non-white, Latino and Asian, population growth, the standard GOP use of racism to get out the vote, as seen in this and previous campaigns, is becoming a turn off.  Witness the flight of Latino voters from the GOP after the Tancredo wing of the party took off.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/10/27/dear-elaine-donnelly%e2%80%a6/comment-page-1/#comment-326395</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 18:01:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6109#comment-326395</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Again, she uses the present tense - *is*.&lt;/blockquote&gt; 

OMG, are we &lt;em&gt;really&lt;/em&gt; going to cover such Clintonian ground?!?  Her meaning was clear enough and if such was not her intent than I suggest that she chooses her words more carefully in the future.  FYI, the support for DADT that Donnelly incorrectly attributes to Powell has nothing to do with this so the sentence you quoted is irrelevant.  She is free to claim that he has &quot;let down&quot; the men and women of the military, though God knoweth how she can given her complete ignorance of military service.  Even if Powell supported repeal of DADT, this would in no way make him a discredited military leader as she states.  He earned that through his sacrifice and service regardless of his views on DADT.  She has no business making such a statement that maligns the man&#039;s service.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Again, she uses the present tense &#8211; *is*.</p></blockquote>
<p>OMG, are we <em>really</em> going to cover such Clintonian ground?!?  Her meaning was clear enough and if such was not her intent than I suggest that she chooses her words more carefully in the future.  FYI, the support for DADT that Donnelly incorrectly attributes to Powell has nothing to do with this so the sentence you quoted is irrelevant.  She is free to claim that he has &#8220;let down&#8221; the men and women of the military, though God knoweth how she can given her complete ignorance of military service.  Even if Powell supported repeal of DADT, this would in no way make him a discredited military leader as she states.  He earned that through his sacrifice and service regardless of his views on DADT.  She has no business making such a statement that maligns the man&#8217;s service.</p>
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		<title>By: ILoveCapitalism</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/10/27/dear-elaine-donnelly%e2%80%a6/comment-page-1/#comment-326340</link>
		<dc:creator>ILoveCapitalism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:15:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6109#comment-326340</guid>
		<description>(P.S. actually, present progressive tense)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(P.S. actually, present progressive tense)</p>
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		<title>By: ILoveCapitalism</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/10/27/dear-elaine-donnelly%e2%80%a6/comment-page-1/#comment-326338</link>
		<dc:creator>ILoveCapitalism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:12:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6109#comment-326338</guid>
		<description>John, I guess we&#039;re going to have to disagree about plain English.  Donnelly&#039;s remarks against Powell are present-tense.  She carefully allows that yes, his military service to the nation - which, from her point of view, is now safely in the past - was honorable.

This is the second part of her quote, that you might object to:&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;Either way, General Powell is letting down the men and women of our military.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;Again, she uses the present tense - *is*.  There is an implied sense of &quot;now&quot;, and a close tying of everything to DADT repeal / open gays.  After giving great service to the nation, Powell *is now*, in her mistaken opinion, letting people down if he supports DADT repeal / open gays.  That&#039;s not beyond the pale; just horribly stupid.  I don&#039;t see any other way to read her remarks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, I guess we&#8217;re going to have to disagree about plain English.  Donnelly&#8217;s remarks against Powell are present-tense.  She carefully allows that yes, his military service to the nation &#8211; which, from her point of view, is now safely in the past &#8211; was honorable.</p>
<p>This is the second part of her quote, that you might object to:<br />
<blockquote>&#8220;Either way, General Powell is letting down the men and women of our military.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Again, she uses the present tense &#8211; *is*.  There is an implied sense of &#8220;now&#8221;, and a close tying of everything to DADT repeal / open gays.  After giving great service to the nation, Powell *is now*, in her mistaken opinion, letting people down if he supports DADT repeal / open gays.  That&#8217;s not beyond the pale; just horribly stupid.  I don&#8217;t see any other way to read her remarks.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/10/27/dear-elaine-donnelly%e2%80%a6/comment-page-1/#comment-326337</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:06:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6109#comment-326337</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;But, with the quote as youâ€™ve given it, she in no way insults or discredits Powellâ€™s military service (which happens to be past).&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Yes, she does.  It matters not what Powell&#039;s view on DADT or Obama is, neither say anything about his service nor should someone who never even wore the uniform herself have even alluded to it.  The support by Powell for repeal of DADT (I believe she&#039;s incorrect with this claim) in no way discredits him as a military leader past, present or future.  Donnelly clearly states that it does and that is out-of-bounds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>But, with the quote as youâ€™ve given it, she in no way insults or discredits Powellâ€™s military service (which happens to be past).</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, she does.  It matters not what Powell&#8217;s view on DADT or Obama is, neither say anything about his service nor should someone who never even wore the uniform herself have even alluded to it.  The support by Powell for repeal of DADT (I believe she&#8217;s incorrect with this claim) in no way discredits him as a military leader past, present or future.  Donnelly clearly states that it does and that is out-of-bounds.</p>
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		<title>By: ILoveCapitalism</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/10/27/dear-elaine-donnelly%e2%80%a6/comment-page-1/#comment-326334</link>
		<dc:creator>ILoveCapitalism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:00:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6109#comment-326334</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;It was her attempt to discredit the manâ€™s service as a military leader&lt;/blockquote&gt;Where has she done so?  Where has she discredited Powell&#039;s past service to the nation as a military leader?

Let&#039;s look again at the Donnelly quote you kindly provided:&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;If General Powell is not concerned about the consequences of repealing the law, he cannot be described as... the credible leader of the military that he used to be.&quot;. &lt;/blockquote&gt;Clearly, in her opinion, Powell &quot;used to be&quot; a credible and valid leader of the military.  Thus, she acknowledges his service. Please note that Powell is, in fact, not *currently* serving the military in any post.  She asserts wrongly that he is also not serving the military if he now supports DADT repeal / open gays.  That is her wrong, wrong, wrong opinion.  But, with the quote as you&#039;ve given it, she in no way insults or discredits Powell&#039;s military service (which happens to be past).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It was her attempt to discredit the manâ€™s service as a military leader</p></blockquote>
<p>Where has she done so?  Where has she discredited Powell&#8217;s past service to the nation as a military leader?</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s look again at the Donnelly quote you kindly provided:<br />
<blockquote>&#8220;If General Powell is not concerned about the consequences of repealing the law, he cannot be described as&#8230; the credible leader of the military that he used to be.&#8221;. </p></blockquote>
<p>Clearly, in her opinion, Powell &#8220;used to be&#8221; a credible and valid leader of the military.  Thus, she acknowledges his service. Please note that Powell is, in fact, not *currently* serving the military in any post.  She asserts wrongly that he is also not serving the military if he now supports DADT repeal / open gays.  That is her wrong, wrong, wrong opinion.  But, with the quote as you&#8217;ve given it, she in no way insults or discredits Powell&#8217;s military service (which happens to be past).</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/10/27/dear-elaine-donnelly%e2%80%a6/comment-page-1/#comment-326314</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:19:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6109#comment-326314</guid>
		<description>ILC:  I agree with Donnelly that Gen. Powell&#039;s endorsement of Obama is disappointing, I myself cannot fathom how could do so, but that&#039;s not all she said.  I obviously strongly disagree with her continual championing of DADT, but that too was not what made her screed beyond the pale.  It was her attempt to discredit the man&#039;s service as a military leader because she thinks he may not share the same view as her.  I don&#039;t give a damn what his view on DADT is (which happens to be in favor of it last time I checked), there is no call for comments like that.  He has served honorably and not even endorsing Obama takes a damn thing away from that.  I am particularly unhappy that all of this is coming from a paid extremist shill who never wore the uniform herself and doesn&#039;t have a damn clue what she is talking about.  I don&#039;t have to agree with the man to retain my respect for him since he has shown his mettle and contrary to Donnelly&#039;s remarks, Powell remains a &quot;credible leader of the military&quot;.  

By all means, defend DADT and lay into Obama all you like but leave the man&#039;s service alone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ILC:  I agree with Donnelly that Gen. Powell&#8217;s endorsement of Obama is disappointing, I myself cannot fathom how could do so, but that&#8217;s not all she said.  I obviously strongly disagree with her continual championing of DADT, but that too was not what made her screed beyond the pale.  It was her attempt to discredit the man&#8217;s service as a military leader because she thinks he may not share the same view as her.  I don&#8217;t give a damn what his view on DADT is (which happens to be in favor of it last time I checked), there is no call for comments like that.  He has served honorably and not even endorsing Obama takes a damn thing away from that.  I am particularly unhappy that all of this is coming from a paid extremist shill who never wore the uniform herself and doesn&#8217;t have a damn clue what she is talking about.  I don&#8217;t have to agree with the man to retain my respect for him since he has shown his mettle and contrary to Donnelly&#8217;s remarks, Powell remains a &#8220;credible leader of the military&#8221;.  </p>
<p>By all means, defend DADT and lay into Obama all you like but leave the man&#8217;s service alone.</p>
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		<title>By: Swampfox</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/10/27/dear-elaine-donnelly%e2%80%a6/comment-page-1/#comment-326313</link>
		<dc:creator>Swampfox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:18:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6109#comment-326313</guid>
		<description>Excuse me.  I meant to say the Powell was still for DADT.  I would have to wonder if his opinion on this has in fact changed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excuse me.  I meant to say the Powell was still for DADT.  I would have to wonder if his opinion on this has in fact changed.</p>
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		<title>By: ILoveCapitalism</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/10/27/dear-elaine-donnelly%e2%80%a6/comment-page-1/#comment-326309</link>
		<dc:creator>ILoveCapitalism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6109#comment-326309</guid>
		<description>P.S. &quot;Repeal DADT&quot; in the sense of allowing gays to serve openly in the military.  Like Average Gay Joe, I favor &quot;repeal&quot; in that sense.  (Not in the sense of going back to the pre-DADT policy of fully banning gays.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S. &#8220;Repeal DADT&#8221; in the sense of allowing gays to serve openly in the military.  Like Average Gay Joe, I favor &#8220;repeal&#8221; in that sense.  (Not in the sense of going back to the pre-DADT policy of fully banning gays.)</p>
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		<title>By: ILoveCapitalism</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/10/27/dear-elaine-donnelly%e2%80%a6/comment-page-1/#comment-326307</link>
		<dc:creator>ILoveCapitalism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:04:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6109#comment-326307</guid>
		<description>To be clear: Powell helped architect DADT.  Donnelly badly wants to keep DADT.  Now that Powell has endorsed Obama, Donnelly wonders if Powell would support the current efforts to repeal DADT.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be clear: Powell helped architect DADT.  Donnelly badly wants to keep DADT.  Now that Powell has endorsed Obama, Donnelly wonders if Powell would support the current efforts to repeal DADT.</p>
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		<title>By: Swampfox</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/10/27/dear-elaine-donnelly%e2%80%a6/comment-page-1/#comment-326305</link>
		<dc:creator>Swampfox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 15:52:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6109#comment-326305</guid>
		<description>Someone please correct me on this, but I believe Powell is still against the DADT policy.  And, Obama is on record that he would consult the military about the policy...........that&#039;s all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someone please correct me on this, but I believe Powell is still against the DADT policy.  And, Obama is on record that he would consult the military about the policy&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..that&#8217;s all.</p>
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		<title>By: ILoveCapitalism</title>
		<link>http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/10/27/dear-elaine-donnelly%e2%80%a6/comment-page-1/#comment-326299</link>
		<dc:creator>ILoveCapitalism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 15:34:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6109#comment-326299</guid>
		<description>I read the Elaine Donnelly remarks you quoted.  Sorry, they aren&#039;t &quot;beyond the pale&quot;.  If she said &quot;God hates fags&quot; or &quot;Let&#039;s kill gays&quot;, that would be beyond the pale.  She didn&#039;t.  She stated her opinion: that it is irresponsible to repeal DADT, and Powell is irresponsible if he supports it, and Powell is not much of a conservative.  She is wrong on the first two counts.  (Right on the third: indeed, Colin Powell is not strongly conservative.)  Although she is wrong on two important counts, let&#039;s not be drama queens about it.  Kindly save phrases like &quot;beyond the pale&quot; for remarks that are actually beyond the pale.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read the Elaine Donnelly remarks you quoted.  Sorry, they aren&#8217;t &#8220;beyond the pale&#8221;.  If she said &#8220;God hates fags&#8221; or &#8220;Let&#8217;s kill gays&#8221;, that would be beyond the pale.  She didn&#8217;t.  She stated her opinion: that it is irresponsible to repeal DADT, and Powell is irresponsible if he supports it, and Powell is not much of a conservative.  She is wrong on the first two counts.  (Right on the third: indeed, Colin Powell is not strongly conservative.)  Although she is wrong on two important counts, let&#8217;s not be drama queens about it.  Kindly save phrases like &#8220;beyond the pale&#8221; for remarks that are actually beyond the pale.</p>
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