How conservatives and gay activists face defeat
It has kind of taken me by surprise how sad I feel about the results of the presidential election just concluded. I mean, given John McCaIn’s great difficulty in articulating a coherent message on the chief issue in this campaign, the economy, his loss was to be expected.
Yet, media bias also contributed to his defeat, well at least to the margin of that loss.
So, maybe I should take a page from the gay activists storming the Mormon church and head downtown to protest the LA Times (much closer than the headquarters of its more biased counterpart in the Big Apple).
Dejected as we are by our loss, however, at least we conservatives accept the results of the election. We’ll lick our wounds, congratulate the winners, critique our past strategy, take a break from politics, then start rebuilding for the future.
I suggest gay activists take a page from us. The angry anti-Mormon rhetoric of the past two days does little to advance the cause they claim to support. Indeed, it only serves to set them back.
On the whole, conservatives are handling Obama’s victory with grace as we should. I suggest gay activists take a page from us and not their left-wing fellow travelers who had a different reaction to Bush’s reelection four years ago.
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now I am not in LA or even in California, but I would like to know why gay activists are attacking the Mormons?? I had thought that most of the anti-gay marriage votes came from Hispanic and Black people who also voted for Obama… and who I would think may not have been at the voting booth if Obama were not running for President??
Comment by heather — November 7, 2008 @ 1:35 pm - November 7, 2008
Taking the loss of Proposition 8 in stride is a good idea. However many aging queer activists remember the days when Catholic Church services were disrupted by members of Queer Nation. It worked for the most part because it pacified the Church regarding public policy involving gay issues except for one, gay marriage. Even then, the Church played a very subtle roll in Prop 8’s passing.
When news came out of the Mormon President’s letter ordered to be openly read to wards all over California, my reaction “God Help Us!!!†Queer Nation or something like it may rise again making life very difficult for the Mormon Church. Especially in Los Angeles and San Diego locations of the two biggest temples in the world. LA is a very liberal town and the Mayor will most likely heal to the demands of the gay community and you can’t exactly move the largest temple, seating over 100,000 out of California.
If the gay community one again engages in your face strategy is hard to say at this time. Would it work or back fire??? I wouldn’t be surprised many queer activists are willing to take a chance based on their success in the past.
Comment by Dave_62 — November 7, 2008 @ 2:01 pm - November 7, 2008
Heather,
They are attacking the Mormons because the Mormons raised a lot of money for the campaign for prop 8. Lot’s of other organizations did as well. However, I think the GLBT community has always had a bone to pick with the Mormon religion.
I agree with your post, Dan. When the left loses, there are always crazy protests, threats of lawsuits etc etc. However, when the right loses, they accept the results and move on. I fully believe the gay organizations are going to lose more support if they keep up these antics. Instead of looking internally as to why they lost, these organizations are blaming everyone but themselves.
Comment by OutliciousTV — November 7, 2008 @ 2:02 pm - November 7, 2008
Hi Gay…– Waaaait a minute… I googled over to… http://www.usnews.com/ … and…
– There was a link called “California Mourns Gay Marriage Ban”… Now, if I am not mistaken, the MAJORITY of voters voted AGAINST allowing gay marriages… right?
– Therefore, should not the headline read… “California CELEBRATES Gay Marriage Ban” OR
– Or… more accurately… just… “California bans Gay Marriages”
– Let me be clear… Gay stuff is not high on Maysman’s list of priorities… I could care less what gays do or do not do, married or not… not even in the top ten of my priorities one way or the other… As long as you folks stand up to be counted in the defense of America when [not if] the next Muslim terrorist makes his way onto our soil…
– I know not what you dream about, but eveeeery siiiiingle day I am aware of one way or the other of 4 airplanes hijacked and crashing on American soil… Kobar Towers… Embassies in Africa… etc… I wrote a “Dear All” letter in 1994 from Jeddah to my friends warning about Osama Bin Laden… [He had threatened ex-pats like myself living in Saudi Arabia] [I "think?.. opine" he was warned off this tactic by the Royal Family because we never heard from him again] then… like everyone else… promptly paid little or no attention until 9/11… I flew airplanes for a living 38 years… 14+ in Saudi Arabia… I have studied and been in contact with maaaany Muslims for thousands of hours in the cockpit as well as other venues in Jeddah… I can tell you that when cornered argumentatively, and no logic left… their final argument is… “It’s in the Koran.” THAT, my friend, is how Muslims think and they DO act on their beliefs according to the “final prophet.”
Comment by Maysman — November 7, 2008 @ 2:35 pm - November 7, 2008
I agree that the reaction to Prop 8 winning has been over the top. But, your claim that the right handles defeat graciously is negated by some who comment on here. Calling for a war against the enemy, implying that Hitler’s success can be understood by looking at Obama’s being elected. Insulting (without basis) those who voted for him and other such temper tantrum words are NOT accepting defeat graciously. Seems to me that the right is acting just as foolishly as the left did in 2004. Sure, there is no street action but the words flying around the right blogsphere are hostile bordering on violent. I’m more worried now than I was before the election about the division in this country. I have seen no indication that there are voices on the right calling for reconciliation, I find only anger and threats. And not just towards the left. Limbaugh calls for a purge of the party, the so called Christian right is now vowing to go forward without the Republican party if their views are not fully adopted. The various factions on the left are going to be at Obama’s and each other’s throats in a very short time. Not a very rosy future is something doesn’t changes.
Comment by a different Dave — November 7, 2008 @ 2:37 pm - November 7, 2008
#3, I had no idea mormons had so much political pull in the Black and Latino communities.
Comment by Right Turn — November 7, 2008 @ 4:13 pm - November 7, 2008
If you go protest against Blacks or Hispanic in East LA and South Central – you will get your head bashed in – or worse.
If you go West LA and protest the Mormons, no-one will care, since the Mormon aren’t very also a much maligned minority.
I don’t have the numbers, but it seemed to me that a lot more support for 8 came from the Knights of Columbus – who happen to be Catholic. But once again, going to downtown LA and protesting at the Cathedral will bring out angry Latinos.
I watched some footage from last nights protest. The Mormon church is doing very good outreach. A number of burly strong Hispanic men were out there ripping the hateful signs off the fence of the Mormon Temple. Has the activists known that, they probably would have stayed in West Hollywood.
Comment by Leah — November 7, 2008 @ 6:26 pm - November 7, 2008
#1: People who take black homophobes to task, like Dan Savage, who I seldom bother with, are already being called “racist” (the new McCarthyism). Are you now or have you ever been a racist? I have already called the black community to task for not dealing with racism and anti-semitism in their midst, and I will do the same for their gay-hating.
We need a gay militant organization in this country and around the world. I’ll be the first to sign up.
Comment by Attmay — November 7, 2008 @ 9:28 pm - November 7, 2008
Attmay, there are just too many complacent people in the gay communities for a new militant organization to rise. Perhaps if the sado-christians make good on their threat to go state to state forcing confrontations on SSM there might be some who will decide it’s time to resist. But many are happy with the way things are, they are comfortable and happy with the illusion that they are safe. Then of course there’s those who believe that it doesn’t pay to get uppity, if we sit real quiet and try to act just like the “normal” people they’ll like us someday and until then we have to calmly take whatever they throw at us. It’s going to take something pretty ugly to light a fire under our collective asses. And even then there will still be those who though they have benefited from the decades of militancy to get where we are will stand with the other side and fight us every step of the way.
Comment by a different Dave — November 7, 2008 @ 11:08 pm - November 7, 2008
#7: Attmay, what do you mean by “militant”?
Comment by Sean A — November 8, 2008 @ 12:01 am - November 8, 2008
I have this horrible image of ‘Pink Pathers’ standing outside polling places with Billy Clubs, but I don’t quite think Attmay is talking of weathermen or bombing yet.
Comment by The_Livewire — November 8, 2008 @ 2:21 pm - November 8, 2008
Jim Treacher on the psychology of trolls
Comment by V the K — November 8, 2008 @ 7:02 pm - November 8, 2008
#10 That is a great analysis of the right wing as demonstrated on here. The fact that those you oppose are human beings and US citizens means absolutely noting to some of you. It’s all about a cause, it’s all about winning no matter who gets stomped in the process.
Comment by a different Dave — November 8, 2008 @ 9:06 pm - November 8, 2008
The fact that those you oppose are human beings and US citizens means absolutely noting to some of you. It’s all about a cause, it’s all about winning no matter who gets stomped in the process.
Case in point:
Sounds like AE wants to have his own Kristallnacht. And then what AE, shooting squads or gas chambers, or does your hate filled mind have other delights in store for those who “are at the very center of everything that divides this countryâ€. AE, you make Fred Phelps look like a strong supporter of gay rights. There is something really dark behind your hatred of gay folk. It is one thing to disagree with a group’s tactics or attitudes but what you display here is pure evil.
For once, you described your own behavior accurately, Dave, given how you constantly dehumanize gay conservatives as Nazis, traitors, and Fred Phelps clones.
Comment by North Dallas Thirty — November 8, 2008 @ 11:21 pm - November 8, 2008
Nice point out of Dave’s hypocrisy, NDT. Unfortunately, he will find some way to rationalize out why it doesn’t apply to him.
Comment by V the K — November 9, 2008 @ 7:06 am - November 9, 2008
“Dave, given how you constantly dehumanize gay conservatives as Nazis, traitors, and Fred Phelps clones.”
V, there’s no need for me to defend myself against an accusation from NDT. He as made so many ignorant assumptions about me and others who comment here that it’s just meaningless noise at this point.
I don’t dehumanize anyone. Gay conservatives whose every word is practically identical to those who hate us are doing a fine job of it for themselves, as are those who champion sexual excess. You spew blanket condemnation and accuse every one who disagrees with you of being guilty of the things that offend you – which as far as I can tell is everything that other gay folk do except for those who call themselves conservative.
I have said before that the gay communities need a conservative voice to help balance things. But what we DON”T need are mirror images of
of the voices of hate like AFTAH, AFA etc. whose only difference is that they like dick. I have never read anything positive from NDT or AE about the gay folk, not ONE. You who have chosen this path are as morally repugnant as your twins, though you do claim that at least a view LGBT people are acceptable, they would see us all burn – you included. Don’t whine about being called on your baseless attacks, no one is forcing you. If hypocritical means that your words and attitudes disgust me, then so be it. You may be wonderful people, well liked and blah blah blah, that has nothing to do with it. When you set yourself up a judge you opened yourself up to judgment. Deal with it.
Comment by a different Dave — November 9, 2008 @ 12:29 pm - November 9, 2008
Wow, you called it V the K
Comment by The_Livewire — November 9, 2008 @ 5:24 pm - November 9, 2008
A Differently Abled Dave,
Your penchant for self-parody never ceases to amaze.
Comment by American Elephant — November 10, 2008 @ 2:10 am - November 10, 2008