Comments on: Stop the Protests. Begin the Introspection. http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/11/12/stop-the-protests-begin-the-introspection/ The Internet home for American gay conservatives. Mon, 15 Mar 2010 08:21:09 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Prop 8 Protests Still Ineffective When Set to Music : Jenn Q. Public http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/11/12/stop-the-protests-begin-the-introspection/comment-page-2/#comment-336586 Prop 8 Protests Still Ineffective When Set to Music : Jenn Q. Public Thu, 04 Dec 2008 21:22:17 +0000 http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6757#comment-336586 [...] would be better served by shelving the impulsive lashing out so that energies can be focused on analyzing why the “No on 8″ campaign failed. Clearly it’s time for a new strategy, and here’s a hint: attacking Mormons? Not so [...] [...] would be better served by shelving the impulsive lashing out so that energies can be focused on analyzing why the “No on 8″ campaign failed. Clearly it’s time for a new strategy, and here’s a hint: attacking Mormons? Not so [...]

]]> By: GayPatriot » Bad Gay Fiction & the Absence of Introspection http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/11/12/stop-the-protests-begin-the-introspection/comment-page-2/#comment-335142 GayPatriot » Bad Gay Fiction & the Absence of Introspection Sun, 30 Nov 2008 21:23:36 +0000 http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6757#comment-335142 [...] So, after paging through these books, taking the boxes upstairs either to the garbage or to be set aside for a thrift store (depending on their condition), I wondered if absence of introspection were a characteristic of gay men in general of just our literary “representatives.”  And the heads of our political organizations. [...] [...] So, after paging through these books, taking the boxes upstairs either to the garbage or to be set aside for a thrift store (depending on their condition), I wondered if absence of introspection were a characteristic of gay men in general of just our literary “representatives.”  And the heads of our political organizations. [...]

]]> By: Links, 11/19/08 http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/11/12/stop-the-protests-begin-the-introspection/comment-page-2/#comment-332289 Links, 11/19/08 Wed, 19 Nov 2008 14:41:50 +0000 http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6757#comment-332289 [...] Spreading this link can result in severe harassment - I’ve already been insulted in a threatening manner by a person on a site for sharing it. In case you’re curious about this issue, which I think is entirely independent of one’s views on Proposition 8 at this point, there’s an even more right-wing article - if you can stomach it - documenting the anti-8 crowd’s behavior incident-by-incident. Obviously, I am interested in balance, the issue for me is the climate of violence: if you find anything that smacks of discrimination against gays (besides 8 itself), let me know. [...] [...] Spreading this link can result in severe harassment – I’ve already been insulted in a threatening manner by a person on a site for sharing it. In case you’re curious about this issue, which I think is entirely independent of one’s views on Proposition 8 at this point, there’s an even more right-wing article – if you can stomach it – documenting the anti-8 crowd’s behavior incident-by-incident. Obviously, I am interested in balance, the issue for me is the climate of violence: if you find anything that smacks of discrimination against gays (besides 8 itself), let me know. [...]

]]> By: The Ugly American http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/11/12/stop-the-protests-begin-the-introspection/comment-page-2/#comment-331796 The Ugly American Mon, 17 Nov 2008 20:12:07 +0000 http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6757#comment-331796 <i>We might then be better served if the gay movement stop styling itself a civil rights movement and redefine itself as a social movement. </i> Hello....I've been saying this for years. Excellent post. We might then be better served if the gay movement stop styling itself a civil rights movement and redefine itself as a social movement.

Hello….I’ve been saying this for years.

Excellent post.

]]> By: Fran http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/11/12/stop-the-protests-begin-the-introspection/comment-page-2/#comment-331751 Fran Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:21:13 +0000 http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6757#comment-331751 As has been mentioned upthread, I think the SSM supporters would have a lot more support if they could convince people that the push for it is more than an attack on religion. Two of the big reasons I voted for Prop 8 was anti-judicial activism and the very possible notion that this could lead to a lawsuit landslide against priests, pastors ect. if they would then refuse to perform same sex marriages. The fact that there are now assaults and other harassment happening to Mormons and other churches does little to ease those fears. I would welcome a dialogue on how we could appease both sides. I have no issues with a gay couple having the same rights afforded by the state or nation. Benefits, property law, taxes, whatever. Or let's get the government out of the marriage business entirely and only have them issue civil union certs to any couple, gay or straight. It's just that many of the people who I know voted yes did so because of the perception that this more about an attack on religion than the real desire for marriage unions (especially considering that some churches will perform same sex ceremonies already). As has been mentioned upthread, I think the SSM supporters would have a lot more support if they could convince people that the push for it is more than an attack on religion. Two of the big reasons I voted for Prop 8 was anti-judicial activism and the very possible notion that this could lead to a lawsuit landslide against priests, pastors ect. if they would then refuse to perform same sex marriages. The fact that there are now assaults and other harassment happening to Mormons and other churches does little to ease those fears.
I would welcome a dialogue on how we could appease both sides. I have no issues with a gay couple having the same rights afforded by the state or nation. Benefits, property law, taxes, whatever. Or let’s get the government out of the marriage business entirely and only have them issue civil union certs to any couple, gay or straight.
It’s just that many of the people who I know voted yes did so because of the perception that this more about an attack on religion than the real desire for marriage unions (especially considering that some churches will perform same sex ceremonies already).

]]> By: Peter Hughes http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/11/12/stop-the-protests-begin-the-introspection/comment-page-2/#comment-331742 Peter Hughes Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:18:25 +0000 http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6757#comment-331742 Just FYI - congrats to Dan for having Michelle Malkin link your wonderful piece to her blog. Well done! Regards, Peter H. Just FYI – congrats to Dan for having Michelle Malkin link your wonderful piece to her blog. Well done!

Regards,
Peter H.

]]> By: Michelle Malkin » Restaurant bullied by anti-Prop. 8 mob offers up payment http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/11/12/stop-the-protests-begin-the-introspection/comment-page-2/#comment-331739 Michelle Malkin » Restaurant bullied by anti-Prop. 8 mob offers up payment Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:08:09 +0000 http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6757#comment-331739 [...] Stop the protests. Begin the introspection. Posted in: Proposition 8 Send to a Friend Printer Friendly comments [...] [...] Stop the protests. Begin the introspection. Posted in: Proposition 8 Send to a Friend Printer Friendly comments [...]

]]> By: Michelle Malkin » Restaurant bullied by anti-Prop. 8 mob offers up payment http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/11/12/stop-the-protests-begin-the-introspection/comment-page-2/#comment-331740 Michelle Malkin » Restaurant bullied by anti-Prop. 8 mob offers up payment Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:08:09 +0000 http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6757#comment-331740 [...] Stop the protests. Begin the introspection. Posted in: Proposition 8 Send to a Friend Printer Friendly comments [...] [...] Stop the protests. Begin the introspection. Posted in: Proposition 8 Send to a Friend Printer Friendly comments [...]

]]> By: Meg http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/11/12/stop-the-protests-begin-the-introspection/comment-page-2/#comment-331409 Meg Sat, 15 Nov 2008 18:16:12 +0000 http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6757#comment-331409 One particular aspect that I think the leaders of the Gay Community need to grasp is that the Black community voted almost unanimously in support of Prop 8. What does that say about that way in which the Gay Community have classified their struggle in the likeness of the Civil Rights movement of the 1960s? Do you think that might send the message that the Black Community doesn't like the Gay Community co-opting part of their heritage? Like you said, they need to transform this into a social movement, not a civil rights movement. Then they might actually be able to make some headway with the Black Community, rather than just offending them. One particular aspect that I think the leaders of the Gay Community need to grasp is that the Black community voted almost unanimously in support of Prop 8. What does that say about that way in which the Gay Community have classified their struggle in the likeness of the Civil Rights movement of the 1960s? Do you think that might send the message that the Black Community doesn’t like the Gay Community co-opting part of their heritage? Like you said, they need to transform this into a social movement, not a civil rights movement. Then they might actually be able to make some headway with the Black Community, rather than just offending them.

]]> By: Hope4Equality http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/11/12/stop-the-protests-begin-the-introspection/comment-page-2/#comment-331167 Hope4Equality Fri, 14 Nov 2008 03:38:29 +0000 http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6757#comment-331167 The g/l anger regarding Prop 8 is certainly understandable and reasonable. What is not reasonable is their focus on the Mormon Church. The frustration should be focused on the State. This is a constitutional issue not a voting issue. The Church has the same rights as everyone else in this country. Note - I am not Mormon. I simply ask that individual rights be respected. I don't concur with their beliefs but they are entitled to their beliefs just as the g/l communities are entitled to theirs. Please read my blog concerning this issue: http://hope4equality.blogspot.com/2008/11/californias-prop-8.html Warmest Regards, Hope4Equality The g/l anger regarding Prop 8 is certainly understandable and reasonable. What is not reasonable is their focus on the Mormon Church. The frustration should be focused on the State. This is a constitutional issue not a voting issue. The Church has the same rights as everyone else in this country. Note – I am not Mormon. I simply ask that individual rights be respected. I don’t concur with their beliefs but they are entitled to their beliefs just as the g/l communities are entitled to theirs. Please read my blog concerning this issue:

http://hope4equality.blogspot.com/2008/11/californias-prop-8.html

Warmest Regards, Hope4Equality

]]> By: a different Dave http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/11/12/stop-the-protests-begin-the-introspection/comment-page-2/#comment-331162 a different Dave Fri, 14 Nov 2008 03:13:04 +0000 http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6757#comment-331162 #40 "yeah, well rightbloggers should be doing everything possible to undermine and damage Obama. Demonize him. Disrespect him. Misquote him. Attribute slips of the lip or gaffes to stupidity and let’s get a “given” established that he’s dishonest, a cretin, traitorous, criminal and evil. Distort and invent quotes and urban legends to ridicule and discredit him." When did they stop? #40 “yeah, well rightbloggers should be doing everything possible to undermine and damage Obama. Demonize him. Disrespect him. Misquote him. Attribute slips of the lip or gaffes to stupidity and let’s get a “given” established that he’s dishonest, a cretin, traitorous, criminal and evil. Distort and invent quotes and urban legends to ridicule and discredit him.”

When did they stop?

]]> By: JMW http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/11/12/stop-the-protests-begin-the-introspection/comment-page-2/#comment-331144 JMW Fri, 14 Nov 2008 01:40:45 +0000 http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6757#comment-331144 RM is having trouble reading. I'll perhaps reiterate my statement that the court is considered to be conservative. In fact, let me provide a source for that. Libertarian reason.org's study on Prop 8: http://www.reason.org/pb76_marriage.pdf "The Court’s decision came as a surprise since it has a reputation for being conservative and six of the seven judges are Republican appointees." But it's OK, RM, if you'd like, we can certainly continue this discussion without letting the facts get in our way. RM is having trouble reading. I’ll perhaps reiterate my statement that the court is considered to be conservative.

In fact, let me provide a source for that. Libertarian reason.org’s study on Prop 8:

http://www.reason.org/pb76_marriage.pdf

“The Court’s decision came as a surprise since it has a
reputation for being conservative and six of the seven judges are Republican appointees.”

But it’s OK, RM, if you’d like, we can certainly continue this discussion without letting the facts get in our way.

]]> By: RM http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/11/12/stop-the-protests-begin-the-introspection/comment-page-2/#comment-331131 RM Fri, 14 Nov 2008 00:46:49 +0000 http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6757#comment-331131 <i>The California Supreme Court isn’t some rat pack of liberal activist judges; it’s generally considered to be conservative as most of the judges were Republican appointees (all but one in fact).</i> I guess that's why Stevens and Souter are considered the most conservative of the Justices, right? Unfortunately, unlimited power and zero accountability tend to turn judges into liberals. In any case, I would assume that the CA supreme court would be similiar in ideology to the 9th Circuit. Maybe they will suprise me and not overturn Prop 8. I won't hold my breath. The California Supreme Court isn’t some rat pack of liberal activist judges; it’s generally considered to be conservative as most of the judges were Republican appointees (all but one in fact).

I guess that’s why Stevens and Souter are considered the most conservative of the Justices, right? Unfortunately, unlimited power and zero accountability tend to turn judges into liberals.

In any case, I would assume that the CA supreme court would be similiar in ideology to the 9th Circuit. Maybe they will suprise me and not overturn Prop 8. I won’t hold my breath.

]]> By: Jamie http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/11/12/stop-the-protests-begin-the-introspection/comment-page-2/#comment-331070 Jamie Thu, 13 Nov 2008 20:03:57 +0000 http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6757#comment-331070 @Jeb My partner and I have made a deliberate decision to forego civil unions and wait for marriage, rather than dignify the mockery of our relationship that a civil union would be. I highly doubt we would effect the divorce rate. @Jeb

My partner and I have made a deliberate decision to forego civil unions and wait for marriage, rather than dignify the mockery of our relationship that a civil union would be. I highly doubt we would effect the divorce rate.

]]> By: JMW http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/11/12/stop-the-protests-begin-the-introspection/comment-page-2/#comment-331048 JMW Thu, 13 Nov 2008 19:21:17 +0000 http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6757#comment-331048 "Or based on what they think is the right thing to do?" The California Supreme Court isn't some rat pack of liberal activist judges; it's generally considered to be conservative as most of the judges were Republican appointees (all but one in fact). So I'll let you answer that question for yourself. "So if you’re going to use the hammer of witch hunts," I never said anything about "witch hunts." Don't put words in my mouth. “Or based on what they think is the right thing to do?”

The California Supreme Court isn’t some rat pack of liberal activist judges; it’s generally considered to be conservative as most of the judges were Republican appointees (all but one in fact).

So I’ll let you answer that question for yourself.

“So if you’re going to use the hammer of witch hunts,”

I never said anything about “witch hunts.” Don’t put words in my mouth.

]]> By: Jeb http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/11/12/stop-the-protests-begin-the-introspection/comment-page-2/#comment-331035 Jeb Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:54:34 +0000 http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6757#comment-331035 The video history of these protests will RESURFACE if and when the referendum comes up in the future. In the future it won't look good for the proponents of same sex marriage. This behavior is inexcusable now and always. As I see it most gay couples have not even taken advantage of civil unions. What will they do with marriage. Increase the divorce rate!! jeb The video history of these protests will RESURFACE if and when the referendum comes up in the future. In the future it won’t look good for the proponents of same sex marriage.

This behavior is inexcusable now and always.

As I see it most gay couples have not even taken advantage of civil unions. What will they do with marriage. Increase the divorce rate!!

jeb

]]> By: RM http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/11/12/stop-the-protests-begin-the-introspection/comment-page-2/#comment-331028 RM Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:33:08 +0000 http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6757#comment-331028 <i>Look for the CA Supreme Court to strike down Prop 8, as it should.</i> Why? Based on the law? Or based on what they think is the <b>right</b> thing to do? You people disgust me. Look for the CA Supreme Court to strike down Prop 8, as it should.

Why? Based on the law? Or based on what they think is the right thing to do? You people disgust me.

]]> By: Attmay http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/11/12/stop-the-protests-begin-the-introspection/comment-page-1/#comment-331002 Attmay Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:20:42 +0000 http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6757#comment-331002 <i>And now all those bigots will be called as such.</i> I intend to call them a lot worse. Obama was already six when Loving v. Virginia was ruled upon. Hawaii, which was only granted statehood in 1959, never enacted anti-miscegenation laws to begin with. #45: I agree that homosexuality never should have gotten conflated with gender identity. That is a separate issue. And now all those bigots will be called as such.

I intend to call them a lot worse.

Obama was already six when Loving v. Virginia was ruled upon. Hawaii, which was only granted statehood in 1959, never enacted anti-miscegenation laws to begin with.

#45: I agree that homosexuality never should have gotten conflated with gender identity. That is a separate issue.

]]> By: Attmay http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/11/12/stop-the-protests-begin-the-introspection/comment-page-1/#comment-330999 Attmay Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:16:07 +0000 http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6757#comment-330999 What the gay community needs to start doing: —Abandon reflexive leftism. Alliances with those who are anti-gun, pro-illegal immigration (I was already against it and seeing majority Latino support for Prop 8 has strengthened it), and anti-war have not helped us one bit. —Oppose the very existence of anti-gay regimes anywhere in the world, especially in the Muslim world, and support political refuge for gays who would otherwise be doomed to live in these places. I knew Obama was willing to step on gays to get elected as early as his South Carolina bus tour with homophobic "ex-gay" preacher Donnie McClurkin. Try this on for size, Obamunists: http://www.sacbee.com/walters/story/1387029.html What the gay community needs to start doing:

—Abandon reflexive leftism. Alliances with those who are anti-gun, pro-illegal immigration (I was already against it and seeing majority Latino support for Prop 8 has strengthened it), and anti-war have not helped us one bit.
—Oppose the very existence of anti-gay regimes anywhere in the world, especially in the Muslim world, and support political refuge for gays who would otherwise be doomed to live in these places.

I knew Obama was willing to step on gays to get elected as early as his South Carolina bus tour with homophobic “ex-gay” preacher Donnie McClurkin. Try this on for size, Obamunists:

http://www.sacbee.com/walters/story/1387029.html

]]> By: buckeyenutlover http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/11/12/stop-the-protests-begin-the-introspection/comment-page-1/#comment-330977 buckeyenutlover Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:16:35 +0000 http://www.gaypatriot.net/?p=6757#comment-330977 yawn. i'll bet you think Rosa Parks and MLK Jr. were also throwing temper tantrums, eh? Pathetic. Discrimination is wrong period. Thankfully we have courts in this country willing to take on discrimination. Had the courts not intervened with Loving -vs- VA, who knows if people like Barak Obama would have been born. If you're against gay marriage, don't marry someone from the same sex. If you're against gay marriage, you're a bigot, plain and simple. And now all those bigots will be called as such. CA had a chance to show its open-mindedness; unfortunately bigotry won out. Look for the CA Supreme Court to strike down Prop 8, as it should. yawn. i’ll bet you think Rosa Parks and MLK Jr. were also throwing temper tantrums, eh? Pathetic.

Discrimination is wrong period. Thankfully we have courts in this country willing to take on discrimination. Had the courts not intervened with Loving -vs- VA, who knows if people like Barak Obama would have been born.

If you’re against gay marriage, don’t marry someone from the same sex. If you’re against gay marriage, you’re a bigot, plain and simple. And now all those bigots will be called as such.

CA had a chance to show its open-mindedness; unfortunately bigotry won out.

Look for the CA Supreme Court to strike down Prop 8, as it should.

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