Where’s the Introspection on Passage of Proposition 8?
Last night, I attended a forum at UCLA, “Election 2008: A New Administration, the LGBT Vote, & Proposition 8″ sponsored by UCLA’s Williams Institute and the Center for American Progress. The only thing it accomplished was to provide further insight into the mind of gay left activists. If I hadn’t run into a couple friends and acquaintances, it would have been a wasted evening.
Yes, one panelist, Hunter College Political Science Professor Kenneth Sherrill, did offer some an interesting breakdown of the electorate in last night’s presidential contest. And some panelists did offer interesting insights on the incoming Obama Administration. But, they didn’t really consider why Proposition 8 passed. Well, they did demonize the “Yes” campaign. And someone (maybe more than one someone) wondered why all these people currently protesting in the streets hadn’t volunteered for the campaign to defeat the initiative.
Panelists offered much praise for one of their own, Equality California’s Geoff Kors, yet no one thought to question his failed strategy. Most offensive of all was that it was impossible for those not on the panels to ask tough questions. We had to write our queries down on cards and pass them up. The moderator decided which to pose to the panelists.
I sat next to a friend, a practicing psychiatrist, whom I chanced upon at the event. While his politics are different from mine, he shared my frustration about the discussion. He wrote out the question he would have asked. And with his permission, I reprint it:
Where is the soul-searching over our failure?
In medicine, we have a tradition of ruthless examination of how our own practices contributed to treatment failure. Please tell us how you individually and collectively have been ruthless in your examination of our and your own contributions to defeat Prop 8.
No one posed this question or a similar question to Kors, the only panelist who represented the team fighting 8. So, he didn’t let us know if he or any of his fellows on the “No on 8″ campaign–had even engaged in such an examination to figure out what they had done wrong.
I have a theory on why they failed. I believe they did not show respect for those who supported 8 not out of bigotry but because of their understanding of sexual difference as a defining aspect of marriage. Had they worked on a way to reach people holding such views, they might have seen a different result last Tuesday.
I had drawn up a question (again not posed) based upon that theory:
With a leadership which well represents its left-wing donor base, how do gay groups reach out to social moderates and conservatives whom we most need to move?
In short, the gay groups need to reach out to people who are least like themselves. They need to communicate with people who speak a different (cultural) language than they do.
Alas, that the panelists could not consider these questions, the excellent question of my liberal friend and my own modest contribution. Yet, they are questions gay community “leaders” need address to better understand their recent failures and to better prepare a strategy to reach those people they’ll need to persuade in future campaigns.
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Your asking people to question their entire worldview of us verse them. Good luck with that.
Comment by robert verdi — November 14, 2008 @ 6:32 am - November 14, 2008
I have a theory on why they failed. I believe they did not show respect for those who supported 8 not out of bigotry but because of their understanding of sexual difference as a defining aspect of marriage. Had they worked on a way to reach people holding such views, they might have seen a different result last Tuesday.
Great point, but I’m afraid the conclusion is wrong. The bigotry angle has been badly overplayed and those of us who voted for Prop 8 are bound to use the videos of the violence against churches in the next campaign. I was not even marginally surprised by that violence.
Here’s why I voted against Prop 8. All human life comes from heterosexual unions. No human life comes from homosexual unions. Gay and straight are different. Changing a word and saying that they’re the same doesn’t make it so.
I was born with some birth defects. There are some things I will never be able to do. Giving me a certificate and having the whole nation acclaim that I am just like everyone else isn’t going to change a thing. I choose to face reality and not delude myself. If that’s repressive or bigoted in some way, please let me know how. I think it’s just being an adult.
In the meantime, I’m not going to help you be delusional about your sexual orientation. You can’t make babies. Even after your parades and sex fairs and teach-ins, you still can’t make babies. There’s all of humanity resulting from one group and none of humanity from the other. I’d say that’s a non-trivial difference that would be foolish to paper over with the redefinition of a word.
Your side had very little respect for this point of view. Many on your side behaved like spoiled children in the aftermath. Why did you expect any different?
Comment by K T Cat — November 14, 2008 @ 8:27 am - November 14, 2008
Yes, GPW, it is going to take a lot of work to build relationships with folk who are not comfortable and even unfamiliar with Gay folk. It is going to take some time along with energy and committment for Gay folk to ‘make their case’. The young folk who voted NO on 8 are the future. These folk know gay friends, see ‘gay folk’ in the media and in their daily life.
This is not a call for Gay folk to ‘come out’, but rather to live their lives in an honest way, to participate in the communities they live in and to share their lives with those around them.
The number of those against giving recognition to Gay Folk seeking recognition and the privileges afforded to other ‘married’ folk continues to drop. It will not be long when that number drops even further. Whether or not ‘marriage’ will be given up to Gay Folk is yet to be determined. But with the increasing numbers of Gay Folk seeking marriage licenses across this nation, more and more people will become accustomed to seeing gay folk living lives just like the rest of married folk.
As gay families grow and children from these families become part of the national fabric of this country, grandparents will become the ever increasing advocates of gay marriage. Children of gay families will have not only grandparents, but also other extended family members including aunts, uncles, cousins, and even religious leaders/clergy that will see these family units as members of the community that deserve the same liberties that are currently afforded to straight folk in marriage.
The national rallies and protests scheduled for Saturday may or may not be productive. But it is a response. Some of the ‘not-so-nice’ actions of a few may cast a shadow of doubt, but for many of the protesters, these protests serve as a way to process the ‘loss’. here is the website: http://www.jointheimpact.com.
My partner and I do not sport a rainbow flag, do not attend gay pride events and do not send monies to the national GLBT organizations. We do host dinner parties with all of our friends and families, attend family functions (even weddings and funerals), participate together in professional gatherings and company sponsored events, volunteer to help our neighbors and community programs and go out in public to have dinner, see a movie, and grocery shop.
We live a very diverse community and are the only ‘white’ folk and have a ‘neighbor’ relationship with those around us. We intentionally chose not to live in gay ghetto or enclave.
Thank you GPW for your continued introspection over 8. It has provoked much introspection for me.
Comment by rusty — November 14, 2008 @ 9:31 am - November 14, 2008
Both sides would do well to read what Orson Scott Card says.
Comment by rightwingprof — November 14, 2008 @ 12:10 pm - November 14, 2008
A young couple moves into a new neighborhood. The next morning while they are eating breakfast, the young
woman sees her neighbor hanging the wash outside.
“That laundry is not very clean”, she said.
“She doesn’t know how to wash correctly.
Perhaps she needs better laundry soap”
Her husband looked on, but remained silent.
Every time her neighbor would hang her wash to dry, the young woman would make the same comments.
About one month later, the woman was surprised to see a
nice clean wash on the line and said to her husband:
“Look, she has learned how to wash correctly. I wonder who taught her this?”
The husband said, “I got up early this morning and cleaned our windows.”
And so it is with life. What we see when watching others depends on the purity of the window through which we look.
Comment by rusty — November 14, 2008 @ 1:11 pm - November 14, 2008
Do we really want to live in a country where whoever puts the biggest mob on the street, whoever bullies and intimidates those who don’t agree with them get to decide what the law is?
I know Erik and some of the other lefties do because they are convinced the mods will always be on their side. But there are plenty of groups hostile to the gay agenda who are capable of equal or greater violence.
Is this where we want to live? Is this where we want to be? Where elections can be overturned by mob violence? If so, then the anti-8 activists are starting a fire that may rapidly grow out of control.
Comment by V the K — November 14, 2008 @ 3:54 pm - November 14, 2008
“I believe they did not show respect for those who supported 8 not out of bigotry but because of their understanding of sexual difference as a defining aspect of marriage.”
You are right that those supporting Prop. 8, in large part, do hold this view. But it is not the only aspect of their reasoning that caused them to vote yes. This is an issue deeply rooted in faith, and those who respect biblical authority cannot be persuaded to disrespect it, no matter how fair-minded and compassionate they may be to same-sex couples. It’s a no-compromise issue. This reminds me of the way Mel White tried repeatedly to persuade Jerry Falwell to accept gays as part of God’s plan. It was never going to happen. Part of the soul-searching among the gay illuminati has to center around why blacks voted so heavily in favor of Prop. 8. Their faith is simply more deeply rooted than that of white Christians. It was once all they had to hold onto.
Comment by Jay T — November 14, 2008 @ 4:27 pm - November 14, 2008
my comments never end up getting posted (?), but i’ll try again.
this is the first time that i have essentially agreed with you, gay patriot. (and by the way, i’m a gay patriot too. i love america at least as much as you do. i hope your blog title is not meant to imply that gays are only patriotic if they’re republican, because that would be the height of immaturity). i, for one, am feeling really mature right now, because i’m putting aside my extreme disagreement with everything else i’ve read on this blog to recognize some common ground – we both agree that this is a time for the gays to look inward and figure out how we can more effectively change the hearts and minds of those who still don’t get us. the failure of us to do so at this moment could prove really detrimental to the cause. and it is possible – my very christian, life-long republican, 96-year-old grandma voted no on 8, because she loves and respects me. it’s that simple.
Attacking the Mormons and harboring resentment toward communities of color will get us nowhere fast.
And KT Cat – You say you were born with disabilities that you have had to acknowledge set you apart from other people. Now, obviously there’s debate about whether or not we’re born gay or straight or whatever, and i don’t pretend to know the answer there, but i have certainly chosen to live the proud life that i live, just as you have chosen to live yours. in some ways it’s different from other peoples’ lives, gay or straight, differently abled or not, and in some ways it’s exactly the same. Fine. But are you arguing that you and I should be doled out different rights based on these differences? Doesn’t that sound strangely, oh, I don’t know, un-Constitutional?
Comment by Matthew — November 16, 2008 @ 1:56 pm - November 16, 2008
Matthew,
What are you talking about?
” But are you arguing that you and I should be doled out different rights based on these differences? Doesn’t that sound strangely, oh, I don’t know, un-Constitutional?”
We can both marry women. That sounds pretty much like the same rights to me. That you don’t use it doesn’t make it not the same, no different than my disabilities prevent me from using some other rights we both have.
Life’s not fair. Grow up.
Comment by K T Cat — November 16, 2008 @ 11:55 pm - November 16, 2008
Unfortunately K T Cat, I can’t marry women…but I like women…I, in fact, am in love with a woman. But I can’t marry her. Why?
You would answer:
” All human life comes from heterosexual unions. No human life comes from homosexual unions. Gay and straight are different. Changing a word and saying that they’re the same doesn’t make it so.
I was born with some birth defects. There are some things I will never be able to do. Giving me a certificate and having the whole nation acclaim that I am just like everyone else isn’t going to change a thing. I choose to face reality and not delude myself. If that’s repressive or bigoted in some way, please let me know how. I think it’s just being an adult.”
First, creating a life is not a requisite for getting married, otherwise all people who are sterile would be banned from getting married. Period.
And your next statement is repressive and bigoted…I’m just letting you know…
I know I’m gay, I know I’m different, that does not affect the ABILITY to be married, it affects the legality and rights bestowed on such a marriage. You may not be like everyone else if you have birth defects, but you are protected under the law…there are numerous acts to protect you against inequitable treatment, and you are allowed to marry the consenting adult you are attracted to….well as long as they’re of the opposite sex.
At one point in our history, you may have been put into an institution with no say from you, because of your defects. You wouldn’t have had the right to say no. This is no different. This is not about being the same…this is about having the same legal treatment.
Comment by Jess — November 25, 2008 @ 3:18 pm - November 25, 2008
[...] of gay men in general of just our literary “representatives.” And the heads of our political [...]
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