I just *had* to comment on this enraging story about how stupid those who voted for Obama are about current events and their own candidate.
The whole story is at How Obama Got Elected.Â
The 12 “Zogby” questions were duplicated, one on the Keating scandal was added for extra balance. The results from Obama voters were virtually IDENTICAL in both polls.Â
35 % of McCain voters got 10 or more of 13 questions correct.  18% of Obama voters got 10 or more of 13 questions correct.
McCain voters knew which party controls congress by a 63-27 margin.
Obama voters got the “congressional control†question wrong by 43-41.
Those that got “congressional control” correct voted 56-43 for McCain.
Those that got “congressional control” wrong voted 65-35 for Obama.
The result of two polls and John Ziegler’s documentary are ghastly reminders of not only how terribly biased and devoid of information our public media outlets have become, but also how horrendous the public school system is when it comes to educating about current events, American history and civics. Â
I’m just beside myself with anger about this story and how ignorance has elected an unprepared man to the White House.
-Bruce (GayPatriot)
???????
Come on! Don’t be duped by this guy…
This was a push poll with selected candidates and questionable questions.
Nate Silver at http://www.fivethirtyeight.com has been all over this and exposed this guy as the nutjob he is.
Along a similar line, Howard Stern sent a “reporter” to interview some black Obama supporters about his policy positions but the reporter inserted all of John McCain’s policy positions into the questioning (“Do you agree with Obama on his pro-life abortion views?,” “Are you comfortable with Obama’s position that we may have to keep troops in Iraq for up to 100 years if necessary?”, “Do you support Obama’s choice of Sarah Palin as his running mate?”)
Not one disagreed with Obama’s “views”
Is it the media’s obligation to educate and if so, where is this written and how is it to be enforced? Why would we blame one of the most leftist group of people in society for doing exactly what they intend according to their politics? Does the blame come from the expectation that they would be fair and objective? Does the resultant ignorance come as a shock?
I said it before I saw the guy’s video, and I’ll say it again: Obama was/is the candidate of stupid people. What cracks me up, though, is how liberals preen themselves on their alleged education and intelligence, having no idea what a bunch of poseurs most of them are.
No… but it is their *job*.
Zogby himself has disavowed his participation in this poll. Additionally, it’s not like Zogby has a steller record when it comes to polling.
Perhaps you have forgotten this zinger from earlier in the year?
Or this classic from 2004?
Seriously, Zogby SUCKS. He’s one of the worst pollsters in the business.
Actually, I should have written it as “poll.” Even by Zogby’s low standards, in this instance, the word “poll” should definitely be in quotations.
Is it the media’s obligation to educate and if so, where is this written and how is it to be enforced
The protections that the media enjoy in this country are based on the idea that their access is required in order for us to have an informed democracy.
As this poll and these examples make clear, the media is failing at their job and in fact is doing the exact opposite; they are acting as paid public shills who misrepresent the truth in favor of their own partisan affiliations.
Since that is the case, they should be held accountable to the same standards as public relations groups. Since PR groups are not allowed to publish smears based on “anonymous sources”, and in fact have no protection against libel, neither should the media.
What is more ignorant is gay people supporting a party that hates us, that is trying to do everything they could to take away our rights. Talk about being ignorant.
Just watch your fellow citizens on Jay Leno’s “Jaywalking”-segment and you’ll be throwing things at the set in outrage…in between the belly laughs at their ignorance. And worse…they’re not embarrassed or shamed by their ignorance. And we let them vote and raise children.
I’m convinced that Jay does this segment on-purpose to shame the teaching “profession”. It’s a sad indictment that the “average-man-on-the-street” can’t answer correctly questions on the US Citizenship questionnaire…nor obvious questions on current events or recent history.
As usual, Ed Morrissey’s commentary is the best:
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/03/ziegler-duplicates-obama-voter-poll-results/
The polling included questions about which media sources voters use. With regard to voters knowing very basic information like which party controls Congress, Ed summarizes the results:
A majority of McCain’s voters answered the question correctly. A majority of Obama’s did not! The above indicates that any kind of media exposure increases the voter’s chance of answering it correctly. But it also shows that voters exposed to Fox News and talk radio are more likely to get it correct. Either Fox and talk radio do a better job… or, if they don’t do a better job, then their audience is more informed, or motivated, or intelligent, or something. Take your pick.
Yes, Miriam, you are.
Wrong. A push poll is when you ask leading questions attributing opinion, policy or action to a specific candidate in an attempt to sway opinion. For example, “did you know that Barack Obama admitted that he snorts cocaine like a pig searching for truffles, yes or no?” would be a push poll question. “Which candidate admitted to snorting cocaine. Obama, Biden, McCain, or Palin” is not.
The poll questions were entirely valid measures of civic and political knowledge, and they show that Democrats and Obama supporters are stupid, ignorant and uninformed.
But we already knew that.
//What is more ignorant is gay people supporting a party that hates us, that is trying to do everything they could to take away our rights. Talk about being ignorant.//
Yes it is ignorant of gays to support Obama when he has stated again and again that he opposes gay marriage, and the Democrats when they fail, again and again, to deliver on promises to the gay community. I totally agree with you!
Dark Eden, gays did exactly the same thing in ’04: they supported Kerry by the bucketload, even after he stated that his poosition on the Defense of Marriage Act was the same as President Bush’s.
In other words, they supported Kerry over Bush… because they thought that Kerry was the bigger liar.
Hmm, gotta disagree with you there. The protections they enjoy are based on the same God given right to speak their minds that the rest of us enjoy. The idea of an objective or even responsible press is relatively recent. For most of our history, including the time of our founding, the press has been partisan, often visciously and irresponsibly so. There was never any requirement for the press to accurately inform the public, nor did the constitution proscribe what level of access the press must be provided — theres all sorts of things the government is allowed to keep secret. The only basis for freedom of the press is that people and the press must be free to say what they want about government, and let the buyer beware.
And the press can be held accountable for libel, cant it? Its congress that has exempted itself from libel and slander laws — something that should be changed.
So… The other part of the Ziegler story is the extent to which Obama voters “knew” things that just ain’t so.
Among his questions were things like “Which candidate said they could see Russia from their house?”, which spent 150K on their wardrobe, etc. Obama supporters “knew”, of course, that Sarah Pailn had done those things. Because it was all over the media. Except… she hadn’t done them.
(She never said she could see Russia from her house. She said there was an Alaskan island from which you could see a bit of Russian territory – and she was right to say that. I don’t know what was spent on her wardrobe, but whatever it was, I highly doubt it was her choice.)
So it’s not just that Obama voters are uninformed (at best). And it’s not just that our media isn’t telling voters what they need to know. It’s that what our media *does* tell people is just crap.
All these media bias stories are so tired. I was just saying that to Chris Matthews last night as he was shining my pumps with his tongue. And yes, I was still in them
As this poll and these examples make clear, the media is failing at their job and in fact is doing the exact opposite; they are acting as paid public shills who misrepresent the truth in favor of their own partisan affiliations.
No… but it is their *job*.
Since the media have such a stranglehold on us [sic], then they have the most to lose from the so-called Fairness Doctrine, right? Folks, media organizations are private (with the exception of PBS, whose taxpayer funding should end immediately). It isn’t up to any random individual to dictate to them their *job*. It isn’t their *job* to be fair and balanced, to be objective and smear-free. Their *job* is to provide the public with either what they like to produce or what they think the public will consume, to either create opinion or reflect it. Their *job* is to sell advertising and to be profitable. Private communications concerns are their own and it’s our responsibility to decide whether we’re being fed a load. That there are hordes of gullible media consumers amongst us that are doing the bidding of liberal media types by electing their political cohorts isn’t the fault of free speech. It’s a manifestation of far deeper problems.
The kind of “the media must serve the public interest” thinking that drives funding for PBS, the Fairness Doctrine, campaign finance reform is the same to which conservatives sometimes fall prey. The answer is not to martyr a biased press but to make it more diverse.
indeed, all 50 million plus people were just like those held up as examples here. grow up. It’s the same “ignorant electorate” that put every single president in since day one. You lost, it happens to all of us. Stop whining and move on.
That depends entirely on the implementation. Don’t hold your breath waiting for Obama’s implementation to have a negative impact on the so-called “mainstream” (but usually left-wing) media.
The writings of the Founding Fathers would tend to disagree with you. But hey, you’re entitled to your own opinion.
Who’s doing that? I know I’m not. I mere notice / acknowledge what their job *is*, in reality. You, and/or they, are free to pretend it’s something else.
Yes, and rightly so… and like any private organization, they are (or should be) free to do their job badly. As they have been doing. They’ve been doing their job badly. They’re free to do it badly. And we, the consumers / victims, are free to notice and tell the truth about it. That’s freedom.
But I don’t see any examples of that in this thread. I don’t know what you’re arguing with.
P.S. I do see “the media will naturally serve the public interest, if they are doing their job” thinking. Which isn’t the type of thinking that drives funding for PBS, the Fairness Doctrine, campaign finance reform, etc. To return to where we started, you had said:
And, looking at the word “obligation”, I specifically answered:
Once again:
Is it the media’s obligation to educate…?
No… but it is their *job*.
The media isn’t responsible for anyone’s education except their own. It isn’t their obligation and it isn’t their *job*.
P.S. I do see “the media will naturally serve the public interest, if they are doing their job†thinking.
It’s a fair guess that most in the media believe they are serving the public interest; the media believe the public interest is to move the country to the left. I’ve no doubt that Chris Matthews was being utterly sincere when he stated he would do anything to help the Obama administration succeed because he believes that in doing so the public would be best served.
The public interest is not a matter of “nature”, nor will it be “naturally served” beyond free speech and liberty. They are not obligated to my worldview and it isn’t their *job* to present it.
So what if they *believe* they are? They still aren’t, in reality.
Equally, it’s still true that, if they presented the electorate with (real) facts and information about the candidates, instead of myths about the candidate they hate and silence about the many flaws of the candidate they like, they would then be serving the public interest. And it is their *job* to do so.
Of course they aren’t obligated to present your worldview. I never said they were.
Looks like you’re back with the straw man tactics,
HardHobittIggy.P.S., and if *informing* people on current events isn’t the media’s job, then what is? As you put it at #17:
Let me paraphrase that, to highlight one of your two aspects:
Oh really? Some approximate synonyms to that, in turn, might be to say it is their job to “educate”, or to *inform*, the electorate about important current events. In your opinion at #17. So again Iggy, I really don’t know what you’re arguing with here. Your attempted argument with me in this thread strikes me as inanely oppositional.
More of Ed Morrissey having the best coverage; his interview with Ziegler:
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/03/interview-john-ziegler/
Ed says:
Ziegler adds, regarding his new/second poll:
Heh.
Inconvenient truths, ILC!!
One last bit just for Iggy. 😉 From the definition of “educate”:
From the definition of “opinion”.
Opinion rests on some state or degree of knowledge. To *create* opinion (Iggy #17) requires that one impart, in some form or to some degree, the associated new knowledge. If you claim that one of the media’s jobs is “to create opinion” (Iggy #17), then one of the media’s jobs must also be to educate. Gotcha, Quibbles.
Now back to my main point: The media has not been doing its job of educating people about current events and politicians. Or if you prefer, they have been doing their job – but very poorly. They teach people myths – i.e., false or untrue “knowledge” – against the candidate they hate, while teaching people nothing about the many flaws of the candidate they like. That *might* be the job of editorial writers, politicians or comedians; it is certainly not the job of new services and reporters.
These are the people ACORN targeted for voter registration. The Democrats have made an art form out of herding the weak minded and pandering to the disaffected while their mega-millionaire elite do salon chat about diversity.
The Big Three, Michigan, Freddie and Fannie, Medicare bankruptcy, the non-existant Social Security “trust fund” and the public school systems are all examples of how the Democrats “fix” things for the little guy. Obama is poised and anxious to lay even more socialistic hopenchange on us. In no time at all, we will wonder in awe that we ever even bothered to carry $20.00 bills.
heliotrope, ‘fraid you’re right. I foresee deficits even bigger than Bush’s, accompanied by monetization of same (call it “quantitative easing”) and thus destruction of the dollar, in Obama’s first term.
I have a simple solution; require anyone who votes Democrat to pay 100% in taxes on any income over $40,000 per year.
It would fund their social programs and force them to the head of the line for their wealth redistribution.
But we should swear by a Soros funded study finding 650,000 Iraqis had been killed during the war, right? Look, Obama supporters are a reflection of the liberal run public school system. Why hide the liberal desire to keep the masses stupid? You should be proud. Your tax dollars at work.
Crud.
all of your bitching about the left and complaining about the stupid….what about the what was it 6-10 million idiot republicans who decided to throw a temper tantrum and stay home on election day….all because their guy wasn’t conservative enough….and so for this we all have to deal with this asshat for the next 4 years?!! please next time do try and handle the little ones to make certain they don’t let people like obie in… sheesh…..so yeah quite your complainin’…
TGC
How did you do that? I have never seen such blockquoting!
Lots of projecting in this post….I thought the you folks on the right were beyond that…
it’s still true that, if they presented the electorate with (real) facts and information about the candidates, instead of myths about the candidate they hate and silence about the many flaws of the candidate they like, they would then be serving the public interest. And it is their *job* to do so.
Nope. A *job* implies contractual obligations. Other than licensing by the FCC, employment contracts, fiduciary responsibilities to shareholders, etc., media entities are pretty much left to their own definition(s) of what constitutes their *job*.
Once again:
Is it the media’s obligation to educate
Here’s the whole sentence from way back in #3:
Is it the media’s obligation to educate and if so, where is this written and how is it to be enforced?
It’s a rhetorical question whose answer is implied in the question. It’s not written and cannot be enforced.
No… but it is their *job*.
Sorry.
we’re way beyond your projections gillie, yes.
I notice no one on the left had taken the pollster up on his bet though.
No.
How can Zogby be considered a legitimate polling firm when he blew the California Democratic primary by 23% and the Republican primary by 16%, in both instances getting the winner decisively wrong?
Having Obama up 13% and Romney up 8% got big headlines, but that’s all it was. It wasn’t anywhere close to accurate.
Zogby is simply a media whore, always with the same song and dance. His polls aim for headlines, not accuracy. Thus, his participation in this project is not surprising. Nor is it surprising that it’s been swallowed here hook, line and sinker.
What’s up with the blather about polls and Zogby? The “Jaywalking” bozos that Leno has no trouble finding and the Harlem pea-brains Howard Stern’s people interviewed and the poor souls in the video all show a fact about Democrats.
The fact is, the Democrats send ACORN after these dolts. They used to rely on dead people. Now they rely on brain dead people and small caches of absentee ballots they find here and there during the recounts.
Show me the tapes of Obama being specific on the issues during the primaries. Lets review all the town hall meetings he had with McCain where his specific programs made McCain’s platitude campaign look weak.
Show me the detailed discussion of the pros and cons of Obama’s program proposals in the MSM.
Is the MSM supposed to educate? Duh! Double Duh! Naw, they are supposed entertain and carry the water for their favorites.
I read about Mumbai to learn (become educated) what happened. I tried to read about Saul Alinsky, but somehow the MSM never discovered him. In ethics, a purposeful omission is equivalent to an intentional lie. So, by not exploring Alinsky, the MSM participated in a cover-up. That is the antithesis of education.
Since many of your folks are having fun ranting at inner city black folks, I would suggest the following questions to McCain supporters:
Is Obama a Muslim?
Is Obama the brother to Osama?
Is Obama a citizen?
Is Obama a member of the communist party?
Is Obama a terrorist?
Is Obama an Arab?
Nope. It’s true that some many jobs today are defined with contractual obligations. But widespread contractual obligations in employment are a modern construct. Jobs existed without them, for millennia.
A reasonable person would grasp that the word “job” more broadly means “proper function”, or “purpose”, or “task”, or “profession”, or “what someone ought to be doing, if their remuneration is to be morally deserved”. Especially in context of what I wrote, as I had explicitly used the word *in contradistinction* to the word “obligation”. But keep digging your hole, Quibbles.
To put it more simply: Educating the electorate on current events and politicians is certainly the *task* or *function* of the media. In other words: their *job*. And, as free human beings, they are free to do their job badly. And they have been doing their job badly. That has been my plain meaning all along, and I daresay no one has had trouble understanding it – except Professor Quibbles here.
Forgot to close one somewhere. Shoulda seen it. ’bout a month ago, AE had one that was twice as bad.
Well, I wish like hell you would demonstrate how this is false instead of trying to convince us by squealing “Zogby Sucks” like Ned Beatty.
Shove that in your ass and smoke it.
Such as….?
Actually, A Differently Abled Dave (boy isnt that appropriate given these poll results), as the poll results affirm, the ignorant part of the electorate votes for YOUR candidates. The people who vote for our candidates are far better informed.
Oh, I don’t know, I think they know they aren’t. I will never forget Mark Halperin, former ABC News political director (famous for instructing his reporters and producers to favor Kerry in their reporting of the 2004 campaign), being interviewed on talk radio, admitting the problem of media bias, was asked by a caller if, since he acknowledged media bias was a problem, why didn’t he just hire more conservatives in his newsroom. “Oh no!” he immediately responded,”I don’t think that’s the answer!”
THAT was art! 😛
C’mon AE! Why else would CNN want to keep an office in Hussein’s Iraq but to show Iraqi kids flying kites where the lemonade springs and the bluebird sings?
In #39 I said:
In #40, little letter people minion gillie positied:
I suspect that little letter people minion gillie associates ACORN with inner city black folks. Ergo, little letter people minion gillie pastes one on me for “having fun ranting at inner city black folk.”
Now just to be clear, ACORN is largely active in inner cities by design. They do not fan out through the burbs. By definition, the “inner city” is not a term used in promoting real estate, advertising hotel accommodations, seeking patrons for sidewalk cafes, or being a place to stroll the parks and leave your kids for day care.
So, after ACORN gets out the vote, what do the inner city people get for their trouble? When all is said and done, it is far cheaper to buy a vote with cigarettes, booze and a ride than it is to buy time on television to try to educate discerning voters. After all, when your vote is only worth a smoke or two you can be bought on the cheap forever.
Like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, ACORN is just another poverty pimping, shake down enterprise backed by the threat of rent-a-mob reaction. As I recall, riots were promised if Obama was not elected.
I anxiously await the profound clarification of my picture of ACORN by little letter people minion gillie. And while he is at it, perhaps little letter people minion gillie can explain why people with wit and drive get out of the inner city and never go back. (I am not including the criminals who prey on the residents of the inner city.)
A reasonable person would grasp that the word “job†more broadly means “proper functionâ€, or “purposeâ€, or “taskâ€, or “professionâ€, or “what someone ought to be doing, if their remuneration is to be morally deservedâ€.
The word ‘job’ can have either a broad or specific definition. One can argue that the media’s purpose is to inform objectively and without bias in order that its profits be morally deserved, but it’s ultimately a meaningless argument because such standards aren’t enforceable, i.e. by the specific definition. I think that’s pretty reasonable because I value a free biased press over an unfree biased press.
Prior to the judge’s ruling in its recent case, eHarmony had no *job* — moral or otherwise, general or specific — to present information about available homosexual singles or offer any such services to them. Since the ruling, eHarmony is legally obligated to follow the law by providing their services to homosexuals, a ruling I adamantly oppose. But merely because it is their legally enforceable *job* to do so doesn’t make it their moral *job*, purpose, task, profession, etc. to extend these services to homos other than the morality of following the letter of the law.
Likewise, a media conglomerate such as CBS has no moral *job*, responsibility, purpose, task, profession, etc. to present any particular viewpoint. One may insist they do and indeed CBS might declare they have such a responsibility, mission, etc. and they probably insist they fulfill it. (CBS likely doesn’t see itself as biased.) Even in the unlikely event it were to recognize or admit what I think is its bias, it still has no moral *job* to act on behalf of my political views or the views of Communist Wiccans, Neo-Nazis, Zionists, Alaskan Secessionists, or any other group large or small.
Bias in the press is the mother’s milk of conservative discourse and this is because there is this childish sense of entitlement to fairness. Here’s my reaction to such complaints:
1. No sh*t, Sherlock.
2. You can do something healthy like create an alternative such as what Bruce has done; or, you can do something unhealthy like become beside oneself with anger such as what Bruce has done. (Or you can do both, such as what Bruce has done.)
I wish the mainstream media were more fair to my viewpoints. But such wishing is pointless, as is responding with moral indignation regarding some false concept of morality. Besides, this latest election is something of an anomaly because issues, viewpoints, ideas, etc. were trumped by race.
Sorry if my previous, similar post appears — my posts are getting filtered and I had to rewrite the above. I should have copied to a .txt.
Professor Quibbles-Bore, you’ve devolved into total inanity: answering inverted arguments that I do not believe, and never made, suggested, or even hinted at in the slightest way, in this thread.
As I affirmed explicitly (and as only you would need to have me affirm) up at #23. Enough of you. Now for something better, directed at others. Victor Davis Hansen has a terrific article today, touching on more of the media’s failures to educate the electorate:
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YjY4MzYyNzM3ZmU5NjBkOTExMDkzOTYyYTRmMDRkNzg=&w=Mg==
Sorry, this would be the page 1 link:
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YjY4MzYyNzM3ZmU5NjBkOTExMDkzOTYyYTRmMDRkNzg=&w=MA==
Professor Quibbles-Bore, you’ve devolved into total inanity…
Translation: I’ve lost this argument.
Correct, Iggy. You’ve finally understood something correctly: You lost the argument, a long time ago.
(Perhaps at #18, your first clear resort to straw-man tactics. Straw-man tactics being an automatic declaration of bankruptcy, for he who uses them.)
I gave my yearly donation to gaypatriot instead of NPR for this very reason.
Thank you for being so informative guys!
Why don’t you post Nate Silver’s interview with the man who did this so called study just to be fair?
There is common ground under the Reagan Doctrine that can be easily developed.
Bush started off on the right foot with “compassionate conservative” but then let it drift away. Use the words of Micah that each of us must to paraphrase Micah’s words” do justice, show mercy, help the least amongst us and walk humbly with thy God”.
In keeping with that theme (my comments got sent several days ago to the blog spam folder in hell), I will try to rephrase what I had said back then.
The commonality as has been said here by other comments is rather then emphasize the religion emphasize the values that are the underpinnings and principles of religion and faith as seen in the words of Micah.
Thus, we can all work on community based solutions in private enterprise such as support for ways to battle poverty, hunger, housing needs, etc.
Affirm that whether pro life or pro choice that we are for raising healthy children and families.
The old saying teach a person to fish and they can feed themselves for a life time instead of government hand outs.
Go back to the Reagan/Goldwater values of getting government off our backs and out of private lives.
Emphasize fiscal conservatism, strong national defense and homeland security.
Emphasize that the solution to fiscal messes isn’t government spending but letting Americans make their own decisions and letting the free market that made us the great country we are be free to do what it does best….end the socialism we are finding ourselves in.
Recognize that we as Gay people share the same values of family, love, freedom as everyone else. Stick to the common values we all share.
It is as basic every day common sense thinking as you get. Then make sure we do just that.
Government that is fiscally lean and stays out the way of our private lives and leaves its people alone to do what we do best in energizing our own skills and resources in a free market, with energy independence,a strong national defense and stand up for freedom at home and abroad.