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On the Hatred of the (Gay) Left

Welcome Instapundit Readers!  While you’re here, you may want to check out my latest on the president’s stimulus package, The Democrats Must be Crazy, or my post contending that the former president was not polarizing, but his election was because some on the left (including many in the MSM) refuse to accept that the American people could elect a Republican chief executive.

Something just occurred to me as I was going through the comments in our spam filter.  Oftentimes, I find “hate” comments, ad hominem attacks on us, trapped amidst the sex ads.  To be sure I also find legitimate commentary from critics as well as supporters in that file.*

By a margin of at least 19-1, those hate comments come from angry leftists calling us “self-hating,” delusional or whatnot, mean-spirited attacks on us, our party, its leaders or gay Republicans in general.  To be sure, occasionally, I have found mean-spirited missives from anti-gay social conservatives (the 1 (or smaller) in the ratio above).

And that’s what struck me.   We get linked far more often by conservative sites (as we did from Instapundit today) than we do by gay (or liberal) ones.  And yet we get more hate comments from the left, particularly the gay left, a left which constantly derides Republican and their social conservative allies as “haters.”  Indeed, some of them call the GOP the “Party of Hate.”

If conservatives were truly the part of hate, shouldn’t we then get more hate comments from anti-gay social conservatives.

But, maybe they’re just not as mean-spirited as the left contends.

Perhaps, those angry voices on the left call us haters for the same reason they so regularly profess that we venerate George W. Bush while they soon over his successor.  They draw the notion of our hatred from their own psyches, seeing in our behavior what they actually feel, though, of course, they direct their feelings toward different “targets.”

——-*Please note that if you try to post a comment and it does not appear right away, it is likely due to the caprice of that filter.  (Somtime it seems it is trying to take over the blog.) For while it does hold some hate comments, it also contains words defending our posts, so please e-mail me if yours gets caught so I can review it and (in most cases) approve it.

As I wrote out the initial draft of this post in a matter of minutes, not expecting it to get much attention beyond our loyal band of readers, I was surprised and pleased by the Instalink.  Because of the added attention this drew, I cleaned it up a bit, improving its flow, but not altering its content.

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83 Comments

  1. GPW – you’re a threat. That’s why they hate you. A lot of insecure people live in virtual realities constructed out of easy comfortable cliches: conservative gays are self-loathing, All Christians and all Republican hate teh gheys, all disagreement is personal and based on hate.

    You stand outside the comfortable world of make-believe they’ve created. Your existence suggests that their misery is their own fault, not because of some right-wing conspiracy. People can’t deal with that. They have to attack you, because if they can destroy you, then you won’t exist, and their world will be safe.

    Comment by V the K — January 22, 2009 @ 6:49 pm - January 22, 2009

  2. GPW – you’re a threat. That’s why they hate you. A lot of insecure people live in virtual realities constructed out of easy comfortable cliches: conservative gays are self-loathing, All C-h-r-i-s-t-i-a-n-s and all Republican hate teh gheys, all disagreement is personal and based on hate.

    You stand outside the comfortable world of make-believe they’ve created. Your existence suggests that their misery is their own fault, not because of some right-wing conspiracy. People can’t deal with that. They have to attack you, because if they can destroy you, then you won’t exist, and their world will be safe.

    Comment by V the K — January 22, 2009 @ 6:49 pm - January 22, 2009

  3. (And why does the filter hate the C-word? Spelling it out was the one difference that got the comment past it. Does Michael Newdow do your programming?)

    Comment by V the K — January 22, 2009 @ 6:50 pm - January 22, 2009

  4. When I began working with a evangelical Christian years ago I was SURE I knew what I was in for. She was a hater! But lo and behold, she NEVER judged me for the way I was born, was always kind, and EVEN gave me relationship advice (that proved helpful, no less). She may have thought that being gay was sinful but she never ever was anything but genuinely friendly towards me. It was the first chink in my deluded armor.

    Now, years later Ive come to find that it is the fundamentalist LEFT that is, by and large, animated by hatred and that the people I had previously believed to be that way, the right, are in general the very opposite.

    Before the election, I went to a gay bar wearing a McCain/Palin cap. As I sat and listened to the constant worshipful chatter about The One with a smile on my face, I was approached by the bar’s owner and told I was not to discuss politics or I would have to leave.

    Forget free speech. Forget diversity. It’s not what “being gay” is all about. Ironic that I am treated better by straight republicans than what touts itself as my “community.”

    Comment by 23eagle — January 22, 2009 @ 6:52 pm - January 22, 2009

  5. That damned filter is just being hateful! It’s obviously conservative.

    Seriously though, since more news sites have places for commentary these days, I see more negative comments all over the place coming from self-professed Dems. Of course, you’ll see the same names many times in different posts calling for unity and tolerance when Barack is getting hammered. They sure can dish it out but boy do they whine and fill their diapers when Chairman O is involved.

    Comment by Patriot Goddess — January 22, 2009 @ 6:55 pm - January 22, 2009

  6. On a related note, I’ve really been struck over the last few days that conservative blogs and commenters seem to be pretty chill with the Obama situation, and seem to be pretty happy generally. But the same lefties who were bitter and angry before the election are STILL bitter and angry.

    Could it be that it’s all a state of mind, and people who are bitter and angry to begin with are going to be that way regardless of circumstances?

    Comment by V the K — January 22, 2009 @ 7:00 pm - January 22, 2009

  7. Our existence as thinking individuals as opposed to walking political and sexual abstractions is a reproach. The gay left makes being gay the center of life; identity isn’t being human, it’s being a concept: Homosexual. What causes identity politics, in this case gay leftism? I suspect much of it is an inability to fully accept their sexual orientation, meaning they spend the rest of their lives (if necessary) dealing with it, embracing it, celebrating it, praciticing it, shoving it in people’s faces, forcing others by law to accept it, and advocating it all in order to provide themselves a justification for their insecurity or a bandage on their wounded souls. (The next step to an aggrieved identity, i.e. a victim status is a very, very small one.) That the insecurity involves physical pleasure exacerbates the justification.

    Comment by Ignatius — January 22, 2009 @ 7:04 pm - January 22, 2009

  8. It filters l-e-s-b-i-a-n, it filters C-h-r-i-s-t-i-a-n, I think its run by the Chinese govt.

    Comment by American Elephant — January 22, 2009 @ 7:16 pm - January 22, 2009

  9. Fart!

    Comment by V the K — January 22, 2009 @ 7:29 pm - January 22, 2009

  10. OK, that word is safe.

    Also “Booger” works so if Dave Barry ever wants to drop in a comment, he’s good to go.

    Comment by V the K — January 22, 2009 @ 7:30 pm - January 22, 2009

  11. Taiwan

    Comment by American Elephant — January 22, 2009 @ 7:46 pm - January 22, 2009

  12. Hmm, guess that blows that theory.

    Comment by American Elephant — January 22, 2009 @ 7:47 pm - January 22, 2009

  13. “If that were so, shouldn’t we then get more hate comments from anti-gay social conservatives if they’re as mean-spirited as the left contends?”
    Shall I post some comments from Free Republic for you, just to let you know what some social cons really think of us? Do you want some of Matt Barber’s comments on gay people? Mike Savage’s? FotF’s?
    Or are you surprised that people that link to you aren’t dumb enough to let loose with anti-gay animus?

    Ignatius: your mind reading on what the gay-left thinks and feels is typical fantasies of what you want your enemies to be, and most of it doesn’t need to be responded to. But this, in which you speak in the voice of Focus on the Family, in the voice of Concerned Women for America, is truly sad: ” forcing others by law to accept it”. Excuse me? The laws, so hard fought for Democrats and almost univerally opposed by Republicans, that protect gay men and women’s right to a job, to a home, to pension benefits, all those things which religion and race already enjoy in this country is “forcing others to accept” homosexuality? The right to exist in this country and be equal is akin to some sort of thought-based mind-control?
    Another question for you? Do you want all of our equality rolled back?

    Comment by torrentprime — January 22, 2009 @ 8:10 pm - January 22, 2009

  14. Although I’m not gay, I get on your site every day. It’s nice to get your perspective on politics and how it affects the gay community. You have a very good blog, and I’m learning and enjoying.

    Comment by Rosalie — January 22, 2009 @ 8:11 pm - January 22, 2009

  15. torrrentprime, by your definition, left-wingers who post here are dumb enough to let loose with anti-Republican animus.

    The point is that the kooks of the right limit themselves to a few fora while the kooks of the left see fit to say whatever they feel whenever and wherever they feel it.

    Recall, once again, the point of this post. It’s about this blog.

    And rant on and on and on about equality and whatnot. it’s not the government’s role to make us equal, but to protect our freedom. And some of the laws you list limit that freedom.

    Comment by GayPatriotWest — January 22, 2009 @ 8:14 pm - January 22, 2009

  16. right to a job, to a home, to pension benefits, all those things which religion and race already enjoy in this country

    Since when have jobs, homes, and pension benefits been guaranteed to people based on religion and skin color?

    The reason gays like you are discriminated against, torrentprime, is because your sexual orientation is your constant excuse for incompetence and laziness. Perhaps if you actually worked and gave other people respect, instead of insisting that anyone who criticizes you in any way is a homophobe, you might not have so much trouble keeping a job.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — January 22, 2009 @ 8:32 pm - January 22, 2009

  17. Well, as a social conservative who used to identify as gay … I read your blog almost every new post and really appreciate your civility and intellect.

    My personal experience is that I get a lot of hate mail from the far far right (some consider me far right) but the nastiest comes from the liberal end of the spectrum. The death threats have come from that end of the world.

    Having once been liberal myself I still don’t relate to it. It’s … a whole new thing it seems.

    Comment by Randy — January 22, 2009 @ 8:36 pm - January 22, 2009

  18. Meanwhile, if you want to see what torrentprime means by “equality”, look at this latest, where the Obama Party that torrentprime supports openly talks about how they don’t want jobs going to, quote, “Skilled Professionals and White Male Construction Workers”.

    That’s equality to gay leftists like torrentprime — discrimination on the basis of skin color and gender. They support this. Their party supports this. And all the time they whine and cry and throw temper tantrums. What a bunch of hypocrites!

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — January 22, 2009 @ 8:38 pm - January 22, 2009

  19. I used to post on the Independent Gay Forum, saying many of the things I see people saying here. And I was kicked off. I think it was the thread where I was defending Rick Warren because I am a Christian first and gay second or third or somewhere down the list. I felt it was wrong to attack his church or try to stop him from giving the invocation because I think he represents, in a generic way, what most people including me believe. Anyhoo–I got banned. I’m trying not to get banned here. I thought it was weird that I was more conservative than IGF. Who knew?

    Comment by Ashpenaz — January 22, 2009 @ 8:45 pm - January 22, 2009

  20. actually, it’s more direct than hatred by association with like minded lefties. Look at torrentprime’s own post. He’s so concerned the government define his rights and privilidges for him.

    Scary.

    Comment by The_Livewire — January 22, 2009 @ 9:01 pm - January 22, 2009

  21. as a social conservative who used to identify as gay

    We have much to discuss…

    Comment by V the K — January 22, 2009 @ 9:58 pm - January 22, 2009

  22. I find it pretty funny when you blather on about hatred on the left so much. The people who control this site often post items that are nothing short of shrill name calling, followed by a dose of more name-calling from your regular supporters. Seems to me that certainly qualifies as a form of hatred. Just scrolling through the list of current posts, I’m not sure how any kind of thoughtful political discussion occurs from a post labeling Garrison Keillor as a moron. Once anyone engages in name-calling in any kind of discussion, you’ve immediately lost because you’ve reached a point where you’re incapable of offering a thoughtful counterpoint.

    Comment by Kevin — January 23, 2009 @ 12:14 am - January 23, 2009

  23. Once anyone engages in name-calling in any kind of discussion, you’ve immediately lost because you’ve reached a point where you’re incapable of offering a thoughtful counterpoint.

    Keven,

    While name-calling is generally to be avoided, your assertion isn’t necessarily true.

    Besides, calling Garrison Keillor a moron is just telling the truth! And it was backed up with more than sufficient evidence.

    Now, since you have complained about GPW’s “blathering,” perhaps you’d like to explain the discrepancy between left-wing and right-wing hate mail this site receives. Well?

    Comment by Classical Liberal Dave — January 23, 2009 @ 12:45 am - January 23, 2009

  24. To paraphrase Walter Matthau in Hello Dolly, “All the facts about the left are insults.”

    Comment by Attmay — January 23, 2009 @ 1:43 am - January 23, 2009

  25. Also “Booger” works so if Dave Barry ever wants to drop in a comment, he’s good to go.

    Or Dr. Johnny Fever.

    I hope nobody says “Who?“.

    Ignatius: your mind reading on what the gay-left thinks and feels is typical fantasies of what you want your enemies to be, and most of it doesn’t need to be responded to.

    Hmmmm…..so I’m supposed to believe that direct observation is “mind reading” and fantasy. Whatever. I guess it could only be a fact if the liberal media reported it thus.

    Of course I’m thinking of the real fantasies of “torture”, Valerie Wilson, the Katrina response etc.

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — January 23, 2009 @ 1:58 am - January 23, 2009

  26. Besides, calling Garrison Keillor a moron is just telling the truth! And it was backed up with more than sufficient evidence.

    Right. It’s not name-calling if you can back it up. The labeling of Garrison Keillor as a moron (not a term I would have used) was backed up by an example of his idiotic, false, and typically smug remark that the Dear One was America’s first author president; as well as a lifetime of smug liberal condescension and contempt toward small town America.

    Comment by V the K — January 23, 2009 @ 7:58 am - January 23, 2009

  27. The hatred of the Left that’s straight isn’t to be discounted. I honestly feel that the Obama-love being the exact same thing as the Bush-hatred, an explanation which this blog has gotten exactly correct, means that underlying our politics is something a lot uglier than cheap populism.

    It isn’t clear to me that the Left as a whole advocates gay rights because they want to be comfortable with gay people or wish them the best. Encouraging identity politics for all minority groups is a self-contradictory gambit: it fosters division that can only result in people blaming each other for everything.

    I’m sure there’s a lot of Mormons who had real trouble voting yes on 8 because they wanted to be true to a faith that helps them love generally. I don’t want to say everyone on the Right has this sort of conflict, because I’ve seen enough kookiness from the Right to worry that post-election, we’re not going to be able to organize. But that kookiness isn’t coming from social conservatives, from what I’ve seen – it’s mainly the Ron Paul crowd and their agitation over the fact governments have to make real choices about spending, peace and war.

    Comment by ashok — January 23, 2009 @ 9:34 am - January 23, 2009

  28. Bottom line is that, as a group, conservatives treat individuals nicer than liberals do.

    Comment by exhelodrvr — January 23, 2009 @ 9:49 am - January 23, 2009

  29. I have always felt that people who think the worst of others are really revealing more about themselves.

    I told some of my more liberal friends that I did not think it was surprising we have a Black President. I thought we were ready 10 years ago, especially considering in the 90s the Republicans tried to get Powell to run, and more recently Rice, and the last administration had the most diverse Cabinet in history. To me and other Republicans I know there is no surprise, he’s a guy that’s all.

    But to many of my liberal friends, they are suprised that their votes could overcome the hatred and racism of people like me. And I think “what?” Then they usually say something like “you’re one of the good ones” . sigh.

    Then it’s hard for me, behavior of people like that make me want to form my own stereotypes.

    Comment by plutosdad — January 23, 2009 @ 9:51 am - January 23, 2009

  30. As a former life-long far left community organizing guy that likes guys, I can tell you that Ignatius’ comments are spot on. I suppose some could see being made to feel uncomfortable by the truth as a “form of hatred.” We are all supposed to live with out any kind of discomfort and that’s a human right according to some on the left. Well its not. Contrary to what the pop diva’s of the pleasure culture preach, life ain’t all unicorns and cotton candy. And how increadibly fragile must one be to to see reasoned discussion as “screeching”? One thing I often think when reading posts here is how careful they are to be even-handed and how lacking in vitriol they are. Its mild compared to many more cutting and direct posts on other sites. And yet, merely differing in opinion is a horrible hateful attack. THIS attitude gives people a bad impression of gays in general and actually makes things worse. But that is fine, right? Feeling the constant victim is the whole point. Its a free trip!

    Comment by 23eagle — January 23, 2009 @ 10:49 am - January 23, 2009

  31. #29 – 23Eagle, welcome to the light and kudos for emerging from the Dark Side of the Force.

    Your statement brings to mind Peter’s Principle of Politics #69: Conservatives like you for WHO you are. Liberals like you for WHAT you are.

    I feel more welcome at a GOP gathering as a gay man than I do as a conservative at my local gay watering hole. Enough said.

    Regards,
    Peter H.

    Comment by Peter Hughes — January 23, 2009 @ 11:41 am - January 23, 2009

  32. […] WHERE THE “HATE” comes from. […]

    Pingback by Instapundit » Blog Archive » WHERE THE “HATE” comes from…. — January 23, 2009 @ 2:29 pm - January 23, 2009

  33. This is typical of my experience with the Left on gun issues: they project their own insecurities like mad.

    They also love to se tup truly vile straw conservatives to shun, and joyfully rope the rest of onto the strawman they set aflame.

    The problem is that the caricatures that they deplore have some at least limited basis in reality. It’s the 21st century, and sex toys are still illegal in some states. People still argue about evolution in the schools, and the urge to legislate one’s religiously based preferences is still alive and well.

    By the time the discussion has been watered down enough for public consumption, it becomes a choice in people’s minds between some small amount more of tax from the pocket for some purported public good vs. protection from some feverishly imaged, but oh-so-plausible in the public’s mind “American theocracy”.

    Comment by geekWithA.45 — January 23, 2009 @ 2:46 pm - January 23, 2009

  34. When I began working with a evangelical Christian years ago I was SURE I knew what I was in for. She was a hater! But lo and behold, she NEVER judged me for the way I was born, was always kind, and EVEN gave me relationship advice (that proved helpful, no less). She may have thought that being gay was sinful but she never ever was anything but genuinely friendly towards me.

    Maybe that was because she, like most real evangelicals, believes everyone is a sinner.

    There is a gay conservative talk show host in LA who sometimes reads the hate mail he gets from the left on the air. Guess how many of those notes end with a slur.

    Good work.

    Comment by Mike K — January 23, 2009 @ 2:50 pm - January 23, 2009

  35. You’re the same sort of threat as Thomas Sowell and Jeff Goldstein are; a black conservative and a non-Leftist academic, respectively.

    Of course, the most amazing person I ever met in that regard was a black Kenyan female Objectivist. She loves to tell stories about leftists who think she’s a lock for being one of them… until she opens her mouth and crashes their entire worldview (especially when she details the destructive effects of aid programs and NGO’s in her native country). She felt bad about one guy who she left nearly catatonic on the BART.

    It illustrates just how thoroughly collectivist they are; for someone with even a shred of Americanism in their worldview, she’d simply be an odd duck, not the end of their world…

    Comment by Seerak — January 23, 2009 @ 3:07 pm - January 23, 2009

  36. That’s equality to gay leftists like torrentprime — discrimination on the basis of skin color and gender. They support this. Their party supports this. And all the time they whine and cry and throw temper tantrums. What a bunch of hypocrites!

    Actually, in this case, the charge of “hypocrisy” doesn’t stick — because genuine equality (before the law) has never been a Leftist principle. As the Left is essentially collectivist, and racism is a species of collectivism, legal discrimination as you describe is consistent with their philosophical core.

    Rather, the hypocrisy was occurring decades ago, when the Left continued parroting liberal values (e.g. the removal of race questions from job applications, the abolition of Jim Crow laws etc.) as their own. They have since abandoned that inconsistency, shedding genuine Enlightenment liberalism as its usefulness declines.

    Comment by Seerak — January 23, 2009 @ 3:16 pm - January 23, 2009

  37. #33 – “She felt bad about one guy who she left nearly catatonic on the BART.”

    Seerak, I would pay mucho dinero to see that happen. I’d double the offer if it were Keith Olberfrau.

    Regards,
    Peter H.

    Comment by Peter Hughes — January 23, 2009 @ 3:19 pm - January 23, 2009

  38. It was Tom Hanks who recently burped that the Mormons who campaigned against gay marriage in Cali were un-American or anti- or unpatriotic or some such. Of course no one asks if he finds the latino and black electorate that voted it down so decisively were any of those things, I guess because we know the answer. The Warren situation was a gut-punch to the clueless who think Obatma is the answer to all questions. Today’s drone attack in Pakistan is another. Gitmo? A year? What a joke. All the signature issues, the alleged rational foundation of Chait-esque BDS are mooted. I laugh. I know on the internets some others weep but not many. No, not many. I know the young white liberals thought they would be expiating their burdensome guilt with this one vote. Joseph Lowery set ’em straight. That was another gut-punch. When oh when will white embrace what is right? It wasn’t election day, apparently. Try again!

    Comment by megapotamus — January 23, 2009 @ 3:25 pm - January 23, 2009

  39. I’m trans, and had to leave the local groups simply because they wouldn’t leave me alone. I wasn’t far-left, so I got likened to a Jewish Nazi. That was the last meeting I went to – for pete’s sake, I’d been post-op for about eight years. I didn’t need the aggravation, and, well, I was far beyond the place where they could have offered help.

    I simply don’t see as much hate from the Right as I do from the Left. Nor did I enjoy the ‘jokes’.

    Comment by Ellen — January 23, 2009 @ 3:32 pm - January 23, 2009

  40. If I were Gay (which I’m not) but pro-freedom (which I am), and I hated myself, wouldn’t that mean that I actually wanted to be a straight socialist? Or just socialist? I’ve known Gays who seem to assume that every straight male is secretly a Gay male in denial. I guess the Gay Left assumes everyone who’s pro-freedom is a socialist in denial, and therefore “self-hating.” One assumption seems as fatuous and unsupported by evidence as the other. It also seems like projection to me.

    Comment by Bilwick1 — January 23, 2009 @ 3:42 pm - January 23, 2009

  41. My wife and I have a very eclectic social circle. We are a bi-racial couple, I’m Hispanic (quite brown) and my wife is white. Our friends range from being very liberal to ultra conservative fundamentalists. In fact, two of my best friends are like the character Walt in the movie Gran Torino.
    We also have two gay friends with whom we socialize with quite a bit. My wife and one of the guys used to work at the same office and a friendship evolved from there.
    Well, as life would have it, the paths of these diverse friendships cross at times. My wife and I have noted that at these social gatherings, our liberal friends exude an attitude that smacks of “Gee, I’m cool hanging out with gay people.” While our very conservative friends seem to exude a “Gee, you’re cool guys and I like hanging with you.”
    Peter Hughes at #31 confirms our observation and reassures my wife and me that we aren’t imagining things.
    On a more personal note, we find it grating that folks with liberal tendencies presume and assume that we too must be liberals. After all we are a bi-racial couple! We encounter that attitude constantly.

    Comment by gsarcs — January 23, 2009 @ 3:55 pm - January 23, 2009

  42. Projection seems to be a very pervasive psychological trait among the Left, it one of the reasons I left the Left behind as they went in circles, circling the drain.

    Comment by DirtCrashr — January 23, 2009 @ 3:56 pm - January 23, 2009

  43. As a brilliant person in another blog pointed out, we don’t need to attack or namecall the left, we just need to hold a mirror up to it.

    Comment by V the K — January 23, 2009 @ 3:57 pm - January 23, 2009

  44. V the K –

    Could it be that it’s all a state of mind, and people who are bitter and angry to begin with are going to be that way regardless of circumstances?

    That’s rather obvious; which of the two sides raises victimhood to a sacrament? If your social/life status is based on your victimhood, of course you’re going to go through life pi$$ed off. This is just as true if you’re straight, white, and rich.

    Comment by Self-hating Boomer — January 23, 2009 @ 4:00 pm - January 23, 2009

  45. GPW – I read your site daily, and did more so when Prop 8 was up for vote. I read as many gay sites as possible to get as many perspectives as I can. I am hetero, and in my heart I want all gay people, nay ALL people, to be happy and not to feel that they are hated by anyone. I have known many gays in my lifetime. I searched my soul to make sure when I voted my position was solid, based on my personal beliefs. I voted for Prop 8. I have to say I found your perspective on the issue the closest to my own beliefs. I am not a hater, no matter how many people say that I am because their message did not change my vote.

    The anger that ensued (and still does) by the left was really unfortunate and sadly IMO, for many Pro-8 voters, legitimized their beliefs and hence their vote.

    On another note, Tom Hanks has apologized for calling Mormons and Pro-8 voters “Un-American”.

    Who labeled the Prop-8 proponents haters?

    Comment by Enlightened — January 23, 2009 @ 4:16 pm - January 23, 2009

  46. Interesting thoughts about who is hateful and who is tolerant.

    I would add another layer – education. My sense is that hatred on the Right comes from the least educated and privileged. Their hatred stems from ignorance and poverty.

    At the same time, some of the most hateful Lefties I know of are those who have enjoyed expensive and elite educations. Scary that education would fuel intolerance.

    Any thoughts on this out there?

    Otherwise, as a straight, conservative man living a very traditional lifestyle, I see a big generational shift coming for gay Americans. The homophobia I see among people from my demographic is more a function of imitation than deeply held belief. Once challenged about gay rights issues or homophobic utterances, they often back down quickly and seem embarrassed at the anti-American nature of what they have said. This isn’t about some sort of PC thought control, it is about letting an essentially decent person peel away a very thin layer of indecency.

    Comment by Francisco — January 23, 2009 @ 4:17 pm - January 23, 2009

  47. It’s the Left, not the Right, which holds that “the personal is political”.

    Comment by Cousin Dave — January 23, 2009 @ 4:19 pm - January 23, 2009

  48. “They draw the notion of our hatred from their own psyches, seeing in our behavior what they actually feel, though they direct their feelings toward different “targets.”

    I agree with this assessment completely! I’m not gay, but I do have a very diverse family – my liberal siblings and their spouses (and now their children) had no problem hating all Christian conservatives whom they have never met. They deserve it you see, because they are ALL bigots. ALL of them.

    The difference I have found between the two groups is this: Conservatives (gay and straight) complain when someone infringes on their ability to live their lives without some one else telling them what to think or how to live. Thus, Christian coservatives don’t like it when gay groups insist that teachers indoctrinate children to accept the gay lifestyle as equal to a heterosexual one. But…. Christian conservaties welcome gays in their congregations, and generally don’t care what you do in your bedrooms and will accept you for who you are. You are free to think and do as you please until you start demanding that THEY think and do as YOU please.

    Liberals on the other hand demand conformity of thought. And they want anyone who doesn’t agree to be brought around to their way of thinking. Thus, actions aren’t important, it is words that matter. So one can fly a private jet to a global waming conference and be cool. Yet if one drives a SUV – uncool. Style, not substance. As long as you say you support global warming, feel free to live in 10,000 sq.ft home and fly a private jet. Just don’t drive an SUV cause they have been deemed to be out.

    Which gets to my point. Both sides have haters. The Christians sit in pews every Sunday and learn how to love their neighbors as themselves and how to deal with jealousy, anger, lust and the other negative aspects of the human condition. Everyone sins so even if they believe being gay is sinful, they know that they too are just as sinful in other ways. So rather than look for targets to direct their hate towards they attempt to look inwards and find their own sins and improve upon themselves. Does that mean that their aren’t people in the pews who direct their hate at other targets -No. They are there, but they don’t get support from the group as a whole for their actions. Rather, the issue of gay v/s straight becomes more like an issue of one neighbor liking loud music and the other liking quiet. To solve it, somebody is going to be unhappy, so attempts are made for both sides to give a little and be respectful of the others point of view.

    Liberals on the other hand, have no such sense of looking inward. There is right thought and wrong thought. Period. So if someone disagrees about gay marriage, they are evil. Nothing to discuss. End of story. All Christians are bad. All gays are good. It’s very simple.

    I know I’m mixing up Christians and conservatives and liberals when they don’t all fit into neat groups. But I find that conservatives tend to want to find win/win solutions. Using the music analogy, how about turning it down after 10PM?

    But today’s liberals just seem to want agree on who is “right” and who is “wrong”. Who is in and who is out. Who is it acceptable to hate and who is it not. So if one neighbor thinks the music is too loud, you don’t need to work towards respectful solutions. One person is cool and one person is not. The uncool one just needs to suck it up and try harder to be cool in the future. And if he refuses, then it is ok to direct all hatred towards him until he moves away or gives in.

    You will never get conformity of thought among all people, but you can ask for respect. But as in all things, to get respect, you have to earn it by being respectful of others.

    Just my humble observations. Sorry for the length.

    Comment by rebecca — January 23, 2009 @ 4:20 pm - January 23, 2009

  49. I still remember the wild and wooly days of alt.talk.politics.guns (or whatever) and the guy who had the by-line: “Gays With Guns Don’t Get Bashed.”

    I thought that made sense. And I still do.

    Comment by Letalis Maximus, Esq. — January 23, 2009 @ 4:38 pm - January 23, 2009

  50. A few years ago, at a media symposium, Elizabeth Bumiller of the NY times said that most of the vitriol she received via email was from the left side of the political spectrum. Not all, but most.

    Comment by John — January 23, 2009 @ 4:52 pm - January 23, 2009

  51. #40 – Hey gsarcs, glad I could affirm your feelings. And I too run across the “if-you-are-gay-you-are-liberal” bunch all the time. I love to see their faces when I accuse them of being stereotypical bigots for assuming my political orientation.

    #46 – Yes, it still does make sense. Most people I know here in Houston (of either persuasion) own guns. Guess that’s why crime has kept dropping here since the 1990s.

    Plus, if any loathesome hater ever tries anything on me, well, I’ve got the difference cocked and loaded in my right hand. Enough said.

    Regards,
    Peter H.

    Comment by Peter Hughes — January 23, 2009 @ 4:53 pm - January 23, 2009

  52. Getting back to gsarcs’ meme – doesn’t anyone remember Lucy and Desi, the first ever biracial couple ever portrayed on TV? They were as conservative as they came. Yet somehow people still equate any biracial couple as being liberal!

    In fact, when Walter Winchell dropped the bomb about Lucy’s so-called Communist leanings, it was Desi who spoke up and said that he and Lucy were against communism and that he had fled Cuba for just such a reason. The best line of them all was when Desi replied: “The only thing red about Lucy is her hair – and even THAT is not legitimate!”

    Regards,
    Peter H.

    Comment by Peter Hughes — January 23, 2009 @ 4:56 pm - January 23, 2009

  53. #44 – Francisco, good point. To use a libtard argument, “everybody knows” that the Ivy League is filled with nothing but communists. 😉

    I think much of what drives the GayLeftLib borg is that their inner 4-year-old still has control of their bodies. The more intolerant they are, the more shrill they get.

    Regards,
    Peter H.

    Comment by Peter Hughes — January 23, 2009 @ 4:59 pm - January 23, 2009

  54. I’m a white, heterosexual, Conservative Christian male. I’ve had gay friends. How long we remained friendly never depended on me, because I would always treat them as a child of God. I don’t go around looking for the mote in other people’s eyes.

    How long we remained friendly always revolved around whether they respected me and my views. The same things goes for American Blacks. I had a Nigerian Black friend who got on, with me, like gangbuster. Why? Because he never tried to push any guilt on me as American Blacks often will. He was willing to disagree with me without imputing that I was insane for believing what I do.

    Do I believe that homosexuality is sinful? Sure–mildly so. Much in the same way that I consider smoking cigarettes to be sinful. That is, Smoking is harmful and repugnant in a variety of ways, so it is best to resist the urge to smoke. Since Homosexuality is so emotionally charged, Let me talk about it in terms of smoking.

    If someone smokes privately, that is none of my business. Of course, there are physical ramifications: it makes their bodies and clothes stink. But, it would be rude of me to remark upon. A polite society would let such differences pass on–unremarked.

    What I don’t like is when a person tries to force their lifestyle on me. I may request that a person not smoke around me. But, blowing smoke in my face would be a direct provocation. Telling me that I am wrong for not smoking is an insult. Any political action designed to make smoking accepted as “normal and universal” would be offensive. As would promoting the practice of smoking to children in school.

    I could talk against the practice of smoking without exhibiting any fear or hatred–any phobias. I could confront the advocates of smoking without demeaning them as people. I need not dehumanize them. As a Christian, I should not, because that would be my sin. We are supposed to hate the sin, not the sinner.

    The problem here is the practice of the Left. They do dehumanize people; They do get abusive, presumptuous, accusative and demeaning. This is the method of Saul Alinski in his book, “Rules for Radicals.” Saul’s method is win political arguments by stifling speech. But, the truth wins out eventually, because the harm that people do to themselves is self evident.

    Both Smoking and Homosexuality shortens people’s lives. Before HIV broke out, homosexuals had an average life expectancy of 52 when it was 70 for a heterosexual male. Every Homosexual, who I have known, has been unhappy.

    Polls repeatedly show that Christians live longer, happier, more fulfilled lives. This fact cannot be hidden, no matter how much Politically Correct propaganda is promulgated. Christians don’t need laws to force our values on people, nor judges to invent “rights” for us out of thin air.

    It is not Homosexuality that bothers me, but Homosexual Activism. I dislike it because it is propagandistic. It demeans a person’s intellect.

    Comment by Louis Wheeler — January 23, 2009 @ 5:11 pm - January 23, 2009

  55. Living in San Francisco as a “closet con” I witness a lot of liberal hatred. I am always astounded by what I see and hear, always from well-educated people who think of themselves as compassionate and kind. They exude a smug self-righteousness that is nothing short of repellent. looking down on anyone with whom they disagree. And because they feel so dominant within the culture, they know they can spew hatred, and everyone around them will smile.

    Comment by DebbieSym — January 23, 2009 @ 5:11 pm - January 23, 2009

  56. Does anyone remember an experiment by a liberal writer during the 2004 election? This writer went into conservative enclaves wearing Kerry/Edwards buttons, T-shirt, caps, etc. He expected to be spit on and sneered at and run out of town. Instead, people either ignored him or were very friendly and polite. Nobody was hateful.

    BUT when he went into liberal towns wearing Bush/Cheney paraphenalia, he was given the finger, spit at, yelled at, and even threatened with violence. It totally changed his preconceived notions of liberal/conservative.

    Comment by DebbieSym — January 23, 2009 @ 5:16 pm - January 23, 2009

  57. Also (at the risk of posting too many items in a row) perhaps you saw the video during the last election of McCain/Palin supporters peacefully marching down a street in Manhattan.

    The video shows the intense hatred directed at the marchers by liberals in the street, even though the marchers were quiet and polite and non-threatening. The video is very powerful evidence of the nastiness of liberals.

    Comment by DebbieSym — January 23, 2009 @ 5:19 pm - January 23, 2009

  58. Ellen — January 23, 2009:
    “I’m trans, and had to leave the local groups simply because they wouldn’t leave me alone. I wasn’t far-left, so I got likened to a Jewish Nazi.”

    I’ve had similar experiences with “the community” where I live, and from “allies” who also assume that, because I’m T, I must be liberal and hence, am in on the snarky, snarly, insulting comments made toward Right-leaning folks.

    Comment by Kellie — January 23, 2009 @ 5:20 pm - January 23, 2009

  59. #52 – I recall the “experiment” and that the man got very different receptions in the two communities. I do not recall that he was physically threatened (can’t say one way or the other) but he did experience much more hostility and unpleasantness as a “Bush/Cheney” supporter.

    While on the topic of how people treat others and who is nice, I would recommend the book Who Really Cares by Arthur Brooks. Brooks also had an interesting piece in today’s WSJ about how conservative philanthropy is more inelastic than liberal philantrophy (meaning that conservatives will be less likely to drop their charitable giving during this recession) than liberals. Ironically, the overwhelmingly liberal people who run non-profits and universities are going to have to depend even more on the generosity of those they often bash. They had better hope that conservative charitable giving is as consistent in tough times as Brooks asserts.

    Comment by Francisco — January 23, 2009 @ 5:28 pm - January 23, 2009

  60. GP,

    Your lifestyle is not mine. But I like most conservatives take the view — its none of our business what the heck you do with yourself. As long as it does not impinge on others enjoyment of the same rights, go for it.

    The left on the other hand has a belief in control. The outcome justifies the means to be able to tell you what to do with yourself. Their gene pool demands your obedience.

    Now I will point out something that probably does not apply to you. The extreme gay activist movement is shooting themselves in the foot. The best example right now is the Prop 8 mess out in Calif. The gay community in my view could have made a decent case that parity in matters sexual is a civil rights issue. But knocking down old ladies will not advance their cause. Fact it sets it back.

    Comment by JohnMc — January 23, 2009 @ 5:35 pm - January 23, 2009

  61. I’ve noticed that for perhaps the past 10 years, there has been a marked decline of homophobia among college aged students. It’s simply a matter of time before all the discrimination that Republicans use (strictly as a matter of getting votes) disappears. Then gays can really be liberal, conservative, or whatever their political inclinations are. It’s hard to see now how anyone gay can be Republican, it seems a strange form of marytrdom. The attempt to put discrimination laws in state constitutions is because the people promoting them also know that time is not on their side.
    A quick comment for Francisco, I grew up in South Dakota, a red state. It’s an interesting thing that the rural red states almost always receive more federal dollars than they pay in. The term is Republican welfare states.

    Comment by Mark Anderson — January 23, 2009 @ 5:54 pm - January 23, 2009

  62. […] On the Hatred of the (Gay) Left […]

    Pingback by GayPatriot » The Conservative Straw Men the Left Set Up to Burn — January 23, 2009 @ 6:07 pm - January 23, 2009

  63. This is a familiar and frankly overworked meme on gay conservative blogs. Do I think the “gay left”, which is really just another term for “most gays” is a bit shrill and ad hominem when it comes to gay conservatives? Of course I do. But do I think liberal gays are more “hateful” than gay conservatives? Not really. There is plenty of ill will toward liberals and the so-called “gay left” coming from your side as well. There is a reflexive human impulse to demonize the other, and gay conservatives fit that bill quite nicely within the larger gay context. But it’s the fact that you’re conservative that they can’t stand, so it stands to reason that you would get more venom from the left than the right on a site like this, doesn’t it? It also stands to reason that any conservative site that deigns to link you, like the gay-friendly Instapundit, will be less concerned with your sexuality than your politics. In other words, you probably don’t get much attention from Focus on the Family, do you? So this childish game of trying to determine which side of the sad partisan bickering that stands for political discourse online is more hateful strikes me as rather silly and meaningless. Just my 2 cents.

    Comment by Aatom — January 23, 2009 @ 6:21 pm - January 23, 2009

  64. Speaking of misconceptions: The WSJ has an article by Arthur C. Brooks, discussing charity donations by liberals and conservatives. It seems that conservatives are much more liberal in donations than liberals. The liberals seem to have a hard time with putting their actions where their mouths are.

    Comment by james conley — January 23, 2009 @ 6:31 pm - January 23, 2009

  65. “I grew up in South Dakota, a red state. It’s an interesting thing that the rural red states almost always receive more federal dollars than they pay in. The term is Republican welfare states.”

    did it ever occur to you that it is because fewer people live in those states and yet they still have to maintain freeways, federal and state infrastructure and other federal programs. If there are only a million people in Idaho and they still have to maintain an interstate freeway and large swaths of public land, that whole per capita thing becomes and issue.

    But I found your point interesting in that it just seems so funny of a thing to complain about on this thread. Those dam* flyover people. White trash on welfare, all of them. Good thing you are so much better and smarter than those welfare receiving red state bigots.

    Comment by rebecca — January 23, 2009 @ 6:53 pm - January 23, 2009

  66. “we just need to hold a mirror up to it”

    If you would also be good if you do that for yourself and your “allies”, you would see that in the end, it’s exactly the same. I’m not doubting anyone’s personal experiences since the majority who post here are conservative I wouldn’t expect to see many stories of hatred from the right.

    “Christian conservaties welcome gays in their congregations, and generally don’t care what you do in your bedrooms and will accept you for who you are. You are free to think and do as you please until you start demanding that THEY think and do as YOU please.”

    That’s a blanket statement that is in many if not most cases NOT true. You are free to think and do as you please as long as you keep it hidden. “Repentant” homosexuals are welcome but openly gay “active” homosexuals are not. If they only way you are welcomed is if you hide your life, then you’re not really welcome. Sure there are many churches that fit your description and my personal experience has been mostly positive but it is wrong to whitewash the truth. For many Christians, acknowledging your sexual orientation and considering it good and nothing to be ashamed of IS “flaunting” and forcing it in people’s faces. In reality though if you could take an honest look, most gays/liberals do not claim that ALL Christians hate gays.

    “Both Smoking and Homosexuality shortens people’s lives. Before HIV broke out, homosexuals had an average life expectancy of 52 when it was 70 for a heterosexual male” Every Homosexual, who I have known, has been unhappy.”

    Pure BS! One can truthfully make the claim that promiscuity shortens people’s lives but only those brainwashed by the Paul Cameron school of pseudo-science will say what you just did. Your last sentence only proves that you know a bunch of unhappy people, not that homosexuals as a group are unhappy.

    Comment by a different Dave — January 23, 2009 @ 7:06 pm - January 23, 2009

  67. I’ve been a supporter of the “Pink Pistols” for years!

    Guess that’s why, while I have all sorts of “hang-ups” about the gay lifestyle in general, I’ve been friends with a number of gay individuals over the years and would support them to the bitter end!

    Comment by John Gardner — January 23, 2009 @ 8:17 pm - January 23, 2009

  68. GPW,

    You are exactly on target.

    It was entirely expected that left wingers would constitute the great weight of your hate mail.

    On our side, I hope to see even more inclusiveness and tolerance. Let’s hope that more straight conservatives come around to the idea that gays are our natural allies, cherishing individual freedom and appreciating how wonderful this country is.

    best regards,
    Jude in Houston

    Comment by Jude — January 23, 2009 @ 8:22 pm - January 23, 2009

  69. #61 – What is your point? If you are implying that the redistribution of federal dollars from “blue” states to “red” states is somehow comparable to VOLUNTARY charitable donations, you are mistaken. We are told how much federal tax we will pay and have no say in how it is distributed.

    I have lived in several blue states that get poor “return” for their federal tax dollars. Merely living in these states did not prove that I cared more about my fellow man.

    Comment by Francisco — January 23, 2009 @ 8:48 pm - January 23, 2009

  70. Keep hate alive — vote Democrat!

    Comment by timstevens — January 23, 2009 @ 8:52 pm - January 23, 2009

  71. As someone who spent most of her life on the left, I agree with most commenters. No one denies there is intolerance on the right, but it has come to define the left. Dissent is not allowed, despite their “dissent is patriotic” mantra during the Bush years. The left now owns intolerance, bigotry, racism, sexism and homophobia. All of these are hallmarks of the media and academia. Tom Hanks having to apologize for bigoted and unthinking remarks is a nearly daily story on the left – always speaking without thinking and having to apologize when outrage ensues.

    To me, a prime explanation for why conservatives tend not to attack liberals (verbally, attacking their property, etc.) is because we respect privacy and good manners generally. Privacy is scorned by the left, despite all their platitudes, and the proof is their overt verbal attacks and physical threats. For them, no one is allowed privacy – the privacy of thought, of belief, of ideology. They have to challenge, in order to categorize and then either praise as comrade or scorn as enemy. Who starts political discussions and fights? It is almost always lefties. Most conservatives I know never bring the subject up (certainly not at work or in social situations). It’s not just that it starts fights we don’t want; it’s also just plain rude.

    As for gays, plenty of conservatives have gay friends, relatives, children, etc. It’s ridiculous to say we hate gays. We by and large want to live and let live but also want intruders to “get offa my lawn” (to quote the ideology of FredHeads as defined on RedState). The real tragedy is that gays are used and abused by the left to advance an agenda that is not designed to benefit gays so much as it is designed to destroy custom, civility, gentility, morality, privacy – all things despised by the left (Alinsky again). Gays are tools to the left, as are all groups as defined by the grievance industry. Gays (and women, and blacks, and basically everyone except straight, white males) who go off the reservation by being conservative are traitors, apostates, worthy of projecting all the loathing and excoriation the left can muster.

    The liberals I work with stated straight out they would never vote for a Mormon. I’m not Mormon and I was offended. They whisper rudely about gay and black employees and propose that high level female managers got there on their backs. The racism, sexism and homophobia on the left is in their chromosomes. It’s truly amazing, but when you view and hear the constant hate, it’s undeniable. They seem to be miserable, self-hating people and thus have to project it onto their ideological enemies in order to feel superior.

    Sorry for the long post.

    Comment by Peg C. — January 23, 2009 @ 9:04 pm - January 23, 2009

  72. #68 – Hey Jude (apologies to the Beatles) – live in Memorial Heights. You?

    Regards,
    Peter H.

    Comment by Peter Hughes — January 23, 2009 @ 10:44 pm - January 23, 2009

  73. #71 – Peg, welcome to the light away from the Dark Side of the Force.

    Regards,
    Peter H.

    Comment by Peter Hughes — January 23, 2009 @ 10:44 pm - January 23, 2009

  74. Pure BS! One can truthfully make the claim that promiscuity shortens people’s lives but only those brainwashed by the Paul Cameron school of pseudo-science will say what you just did.

    And once again, our board leftist demonstrates quite nicely how anyone who dares express a difference of opinion is immediately quashed, insulted, and demeaned by “tolerant” leftists like himself.

    They don’t even recognize they’re doing it.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — January 24, 2009 @ 12:13 am - January 24, 2009

  75. […] The Barack Obama Body Count The Right Coast: Atlas Shrugged wasn’t fiction Gay Patriot: On the Hatred of the (Gay) Left Bob McCarty: GITMO Detainees Likely to Thank MLK, Allah Scrappleface: ‘War On Terror’ […]

    Pingback by Weekend Links : Stop The ACLU — January 24, 2009 @ 1:31 am - January 24, 2009

  76. I guess ADD didn’t like what he saw in the mirror when it was held up.

    Comment by V the K — January 24, 2009 @ 9:53 am - January 24, 2009

  77. #76 – V, I thought that vampires didn’t cast any reflections in mirrors.

    Regards,
    Peter H.

    Comment by Peter Hughes — January 24, 2009 @ 11:46 am - January 24, 2009

  78. […] Daniel Blatt, writing for Gay Patriot - a blog linked to and read mostly by conservatives - wonders why hate mail they get from the left outweighs hate mail from the right by 19-1. It may be that when you identify with a political view that is by reputation anti-racist and […]

    Pingback by A theory of left-wing antisemitism « The General Wolfe — January 24, 2009 @ 7:50 pm - January 24, 2009

  79. […] Scariest Chart ever?: Well, One of them Celebrate diversity: But not of thought. Not…of thought. Imperialism is terrible: Unless it’s not. Not that I accept for a moment the argument that […]

    Pingback by Aboard Air Force One & More | The Anchoress — January 25, 2009 @ 3:08 pm - January 25, 2009

  80. Thank you, a different Dave, for confirming what I said earlier was true. Your response was exactly what the Left do.

    I made a calm statement. You called it BS, without proof. You could have demanded that I provide evidence to back up my contentions, but you did not. Perhaps, you knew that I had the evidence ready to spring on you. Otherwise, I would have never piped up.

    I thought I laid out my case rather well, but I can see three or four places where it could be logically attacked. You did not choose a logical attack, but a mere denial. That is rather weak–pathetic.

    Comment by Louis Wheeler — January 25, 2009 @ 5:04 pm - January 25, 2009

  81. I don’t see much contradiction in being gay and republican.I know a handfull of gay republicans and they are normal to the point of boring. Not that there is anything wrong with being boring….

    laura

    Comment by laura — January 26, 2009 @ 2:25 pm - January 26, 2009

  82. […] ….vote Democratic! […]

    Pingback by GayPatriot » KEEP HATE ALIVE…. — January 27, 2009 @ 12:37 am - January 27, 2009

  83. […] You couldn’t possibly be more wrong. […]

    Pingback by Stones Cry Out - If they keep silent… » Gay-Bashing (from the Left) — January 27, 2009 @ 12:27 pm - January 27, 2009

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