Isn’t that amazing? Must be because they consider the source, as well as the fact that you consider any criticism of gay peoples’ behavior whatsoever to be “hate”.

And Sean, you just jumped in the same toilet as NDT, you can’t respond with outright lies about what I say and believe. To bad because you did have some coherent thoughts.

You both show me yet again, that the “conservatism” you stand for is foul, immoral and dangerous. Luckily, you represent a disgusting minority in conservative circles and hopefully will spend eternity with those who think like you from the left, from fanatic Islam and all the other hate mongers who threaten life on this earth.

FLUSH, bye bye, joint the rest of the excrement.

Of course you have. You have stated that gay marriage should be legalized because its absence prevents gay men from having meaningful and monogamous relationships.

If the absence of something prevents you from having it, then it is obvious that you are dependent on that something. Gay liberals like yourself are incapable of forming meaningful or monogamous relationships by yourself and need the state mandate in order to keep yourself sexually faithful and interested in a single partner.

“Here’s the message I wanted to see. … ‘You’re right honey, you can marry a princess, and isn’t that wonderful? You can also marry someone of [a different] race. And you know what, you don’t have to get married; in fact I think you should consider whether you want to participate in that patriarchal institution.’”

In short, adDave and the gay community are insulting and demeaning marriage — and saying that children should be taught that marriage is a bad thing — even as they’re out in public whining about how their lives are meaningless without marriage.

“The state’s approval means nothing to me, legal protections do not indicate approval.”

If the state’s approval means “nothing” to you, ADD, then why do you find it “appalling” that a gay person would vote for Prop. 8? Why does the discussion of it inevitably lead to you bringing up something as irrelevant and hyperbolically stupid as anti-sodomy laws?

“And the tired old worn out marriage is simply about breeding is totally degrading to any married couple in the world.”

Yes, ADD, we know you consider that “breeding” argument to be “worn out,” precisely because considering it demands the acknowledgment of certain “real life” facts that you simply won’t deal with. And for the record, you still don’t get it–I don’t think marriage is ONLY about reproduction. I think it is the ONLY aspect of marriage that is relevant to the state’s approval of it. You are still clinging to the TIRED argument that the state’s interest in handing out the benefits should be satisfied by the fact that 2 men REALLY, REALLY, REALLY love each other. ADD, this is a gay political blog–no one here disputes that.

“I don’t use the word homophobic except in very rare and specific circumstances.”

Yes, we know. When you’re awake.

“…shove it in the sphincter that most of your lies flow from.”

You sweet-talker, you.

“You know nothing about “gays like me…””

You sure about that, ADD? Maybe I know just enough to get you to fly into one of your sputtering convulsions a la # 37?

To you and NDT, you know NOTHING about my world, your claims are pure hallucination. I call someone intolerant etc. when they (like NDT) condemn a whole group of people based on the actions of a tiny segment. And not that the truth matters to you NDT but I don’t use the word homophobic except in very rare and specific circumstances.

“Gays like yourself insist that you are incapable of forming meaningful and monogamous relationships without marriage”

A total, absolute, asinine and ignorant lie. I have NEVER said such a thing. You need to take that “gays like yourself” phrase and shove it in the sphincter that most of your lies flow from. You know nothing about “gays like me” all you know are the perverse thoughts that flow from the cesspool of your mind. Are you even able to put a sentence together that doesn’t have lie in it?

Wrong again, ADD. I am well aware that in real life there are homosexuals and heterosexuals who respect monogamous, stable relationships and other homosexuals and heterosexuals who behave in despicable ways and demand that the world not judge them for it. The anecdotal stories of gay and straight behavior have nothing to do with why I oppose same-sex marriage. I oppose it because the rationale for state-supported marriage is the reasonable expectation that the two parties will reproduce and in most cases have the biological capability to do so. The refusal of supporters of SSM to acknowledge this fact is the very definition of ignoring “real life.”

And by the way, the “either/or mentality” you refer to is best represented by the gay left’s (and your) refusal to even consider the possibility of a world in which gays are afforded a state system recognizing civil unions or domestic partnerships with all of the same rights conferred on heterosexual spouses, but without the label “marriage.” It’s EITHER the state’s stamp of approval on your relationships (and the validation you are really seeking), OR scorch the Earth, rioting in the streets against religious people for not giving you exactly what you want, when you want it. In your world, EITHER one pledges unequivocal support for gay marriage, OR you’re an anti-gay, self-hating homophobe.

Of course we question it, adDave. Gays like yourself insist that you are incapable of forming meaningful and monogamous relationships without marriage — a limitation which doesn’t apply to straight people. Straight people aren’t bothered by telling teenagers not to have sex, but liberal gays treat it as an attack on their very existence — not surprising, when you see the example of liberal gays like Sam Adams and who they choose for sex.

Problem is, adDave, when heterosexuals do that, the result is immediate and loud condemnation by the rest of the heterosexual community.

When gays do it, you and yours start screaming about how wrong it is to “judge”, how “intolerant” people are for doing so, and how anyone who criticizes such behavior by gays is “homophobic”.

These actions get ascribed to the gay community because gays like yourself equivocate and make excuses for them. That makes it more than obvious that you don’t see anything wrong with what they are doing.

And the problem with your second argument is that Britney Spears marriages do not emphasize the norm, they emphasize the freakish and rare exception to the norm. But unlike heterosexual marriage, the norm among gay couples is not fidelity and life long partnerships, the norm is lots of shorter term relationships. And this divorce emphasizes that norm.

So, it’s self-despising to be offended by certain sexual acts but it’s not to be against gay marriage? Does that mean the getting buggered is a requirement to loving yourself as a gay person. In that case a man on a sling servicing any and all must really love himself eh? Questioning the ability of gay folk to form meaningful and monogamous relationships can (but doesn’t have to be) be a form of self-hate, though for many on here it’s simply that those writing are just so much superior to the rest of us.

AE, I agree with you that if 67% of persons who get married for the first time stay married, that fact doesn’t change if a divorced person gets divorced a second, third, fourth, etc., time. But if the divorce rate is 50% of marriages , then in order to get to that figure, assuming your 33% rate for first married persons, plenty of those who get divorced from a first marriage, get divorced again.

You’re right, it doesnt prove it, I should have said it supports their argument.

That’s better. But still, I don’t think either of us would agree that Britney Spears’ marriages would support the argument that marriage among opposite sex couples should end.

American Elephant, how does the divorce of one gay couple prove that point?

You’re right, it doesnt prove it, I should have said it supports their argument.

It looks like you’re trying to have it both ways with the statistics. If I grant you that 67% of first marriages stay intact, which is plausible, it means that plenty of second marriages also end up in divorce, to get to the 50% figure.

no, if 67% of people who get married stay married their first time, then the divorce rate is 67%. If the people who get divorced go on to get divorced again, it doesnt change the fact that 67% of couples stay married.

“I don’t think that gay culture and straight culture are equivalent on every issue.”

Is there just one gay culture? or one straight culture?

So ADD, you “understand” the concerns about SSM and “agree” with some of those concerns, but a gay person supporting Prop. 8 is equivalent to him championing the return of unconstitutional, unenforceable laws against ass-fu*king.

Highly astute, ADD. I can’t imagine why I ever doubted you.

Then what does the popularity of the Saw series, or the Batman movies, or Harry Potter show about “most” of their intended audience. Fireproof is a feel good movie and it was heavily marketed to a specific segment of the population. It may be a wonderful movie with an excellent message but it’s popularity doesn’t prove anything about what heterosexuals think about marriage. It’s quite safe to say that most heterosexuals have not read Warren’s book, and again, it was marketed to specific audience. I am not condemning heterosexual marriage and I’m not saying that most don’t view it as a lifelong commitment.

“Most people hear gays saying “Marriage is an outdated….”

No, most people hear the voices of the anti-gay marriage folks saying this. Most people don’t read publications from the gay communities, most people don’t even know anyone with that opinion of marriage. I think it’s a stretch to claim that even most gay people have this opinion of marriage. At one time that was true but not now. Of course that’s just my opinion.

I understand the many of the concerns about SSM marriage and agree with some but I will not accept that the blank condemnation that flows from some here is appropriate. Despite a person’s concerns about the validity of our relationships I find the idea that a gay person would actually vote for Prop 8 appalling. Would you also approve the return of sodomy laws?