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Bill Moyers: The Power of Outing

Welcome Instapundit and Corner Readers!

If it weren’t for his Power of Myth series where he introduced Joseph Campbell to a broader audience, Bill Moyers would have contributed little to our national discourse.  He has otherwise dedicated his career almost exclusively to destroying Republicans.

It’s too bad that despite his deep affection for Campbell and his work, Moyers all but ignored that great mythologist’s politics.  Campbell was a Republican and, as I understand, a pretty conservative one at that.

A true investigative reporter who regularly denounces conservatives might want to explore more deeply how his hero’s lifetime study of mythology did not shake his conservative political convictions.

In his White House days, working for then-Democratic President Lyndon Johnson, Moyers was more curious about the sexuality of some of his coworkers:

Bill Moyers, a White House aide now best known as a liberal television commentator, is described in the records as seeking information on the sexual preferences of White House staff members. Moyers said by e-mail yesterday that his memory is unclear after so many years but that he may have been simply looking for details of allegations first brought to the president by Hoover.

And he wasn’t just looking to find out if his coworkers were gay:

Only a few weeks before the 1964 election, a powerful presidential assistant, Walter Jenkins, was arrested in a men’s room in Washington. Evidently, the president was concerned that Barry Goldwater would use that against him in the election. Another assistant, Bill Moyers, was tasked to direct Hoover to do an investigation of Goldwater’s staff to find similar evidence of homosexual activity. Mr. Moyers’ memo to the FBI was in one of the files.

Isn’t using the FBI to dig up dirt on political opponents kind of similar to what Nixon did in Watergate?  There’s even a memo in the FBI files.

Oh, and this story about Moyers’ snooping around for evidence of gay people in the Goldwater camp came out in July of 2005.  For three-and-one-half years, the leading gay organizations have been silent on the matter while this onetime practioner of outing prattles away on national TV.

I daresay they’d have reacted differently if Moyers were a former Nixon aide with a show on FoxNews.

Pete Wehner ponders the hypocrisy of this “insufferable” (to borrow Mark Hemingway’s term) man finds himself:

Moyers is among the most sanctimonious individuals on television (quite a feat, given the competition). He presents himself as a champion of good government, an intrepid voice for integrity and honesty, ever on the lookout for people who would degrade our public discourse or act in a dishonorable manner. That’s why this revelation — Moyers seeking information on the sexual preferences of White House staff members — is particularly notable. And I suspect his excuse, that his “memory is unclear after so many years,” probably wouldn’t persuade Moyers himself, if the person in question were, say, a conservative.

Noting this “for the record,” Ed Morrissey offers,  “When Moyers sounds off on alleged Republican bigotry, perhaps this will serve as a useful reminder that Moyers can hardly cast the first stone.“  Exactly.

Interesting how a story about a liberal pundit’s investigations into the sexuality of coworkers and political rivals primarily draws the attention of conservative bloggers. And gay bloggers seem more interested in the story than do the organizations ostensibly representing our peers.

The more we learn about Bill Moyers, the more we see how much his political affiliation defined his life. He would do anything to destroy a rival politician, even root around to see if that man had gay staffers, seeking to use those staffers’ sexuality against their Republican employer.

Let us hope this latest revelation reminds people of that broadcaster’s bias. At least Moyers had the sense not to hold one Republican’s politics against him. For it is largely thanks to Bill Moyers that people are familiar today with Joseph Campbell. And the power of myth.

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72 Comments

  1. Sorry to go off topic, but considering that this post examines the vile, shameless (and altogether typical) hypocrisy of liberals, I thought everyone would find this new, disgusting, unbelievable (and altogether routine) example interesting:

    Politicians who are now leading the charge to eliminate secret ballots in American union elections (“card check”) formally demanded that Mexican officials protect their workers’ electoral privacy rights against union thugs back in 2001. So, according to Filner, Frank, Kucinich, Lee and other slime-ball Democrats, secret ballots are “absolutely necessary” to protect Mexican workers from union intimidation, but for AMERICAN workers, not so much. Of course, these politicians would have taken the exact opposite position if any of those Mexican unions had been contributing to their re-election campaigns.

    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/02/20/secret-ballots-for-workers-in-mexico-but-not-the-us/

    I honestly don’t know how these people live with themselves, Barney Frank especially. He is a complete waste of humanity.

    Comment by Sean A — February 20, 2009 @ 9:21 pm - February 20, 2009

  2. Help! Filter attack! Please help!

    Comment by Sean A — February 20, 2009 @ 9:21 pm - February 20, 2009

  3. Barry Goldwater, Mr. Conservative, should remembered by gays and lesbians for his unparalleled support. By the way, Johnson, just like Kennedy and Clinton could not keep his pants up.

    Comment by Swampfox — February 20, 2009 @ 9:38 pm - February 20, 2009

  4. I’ve always found Moyers to be a shallow, overly self-impressed and sanctimonius idiot. Can’t say I was terribly wrong.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — February 20, 2009 @ 9:43 pm - February 20, 2009

  5. Peter Wehner’s article is informative. One more tidbit I didn’t know:

    Mr. Moyers was a key figure in the creation of the notorious “Daisy” ad, … a young girl plucking daisy petals as a countdown leads to her annihilation in a nuclear blast. The message was clear: this was the fate of the earth if Barry Goldwater were elected.

    Yikes.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — February 20, 2009 @ 9:47 pm - February 20, 2009

  6. OMFG! Bill Moyers wasn’t a saint 45 years ago! Obviously the LIEbruls are all hypocritical neonazis!

    So, umm, what has he done to you lately?

    Comment by PeeJ — February 20, 2009 @ 10:13 pm - February 20, 2009

  7. Are you kidding me? He used homosexuality as a form of blackmail at a time when it was illegal in every state. The guy is a turd, and he now gets taxpayers’ money for his lousy television programs.

    Comment by Attmay — February 20, 2009 @ 10:45 pm - February 20, 2009

  8. [...] BILL MOYERS: The Power of Outing. [...]

    Pingback by Instapundit » Blog Archive » BILL MOYERS: The Power of Outing…. — February 20, 2009 @ 11:12 pm - February 20, 2009

  9. *calls Satan*

    Yup, just as I thought. Attmay and I agree.

    Hell has frozen over. ;-)

    Comment by The_Livewire — February 20, 2009 @ 11:27 pm - February 20, 2009

  10. So, Peej, I guess the Dems using Herbert Hoover for 70 or 80 years really bothered you, huh?

    Actually, I’m not a conservative, but it’s not too hard to see how Moyers blatant bias in his pronouncements over the past 40 or so years might have hurt some people.

    Of course, the Stalinists of the Left (you know, ‘Progressives’ and Obamabots and others who are intent on shutting up anyone who disagrees with them) would find nothing wrong with any of Moyers’ behaviors either 45 years ago or yesterday.

    And only a whole lot of Libtards and Liebruls are hypocritical neonazis. Some of them are just hypocrites, and some are just neonazis, and some are just Stanlinists, and a few are just confused, and a very small number are just people who see things differently that their opponents/adversaries and they don’t spout off like idiots on blog posts.

    Comment by JorgXMcKie — February 20, 2009 @ 11:35 pm - February 20, 2009

  11. I don’t know about Campbell’s politics, but he was a bigot.

    “Campus Life: Sarah Lawrence; Debate Persists Over a Professor Accused of Bias” New York Times May 27, 1990:

    “He said that Jews were the cause of all that was bad with Western civilization,” Ms. Feldman recalled, adding that faculty members had told her at the time that such remarks by Mr. Campbell were common knowledge.

    “After Death, a Writer Is Accused of Anti-Semitism” BERNSTEIN, RICHARD. New York Times. Nov 6, 1989:

    ”In addition to anti-Semitism, I remember in particular his vexation over blacks being admitted to Sarah Lawrence,” [Carol Wallace Orr] writes. In a recent telephone interview, she said she did not remember Mr. Campbell’s other comments, but she said she was ”shocked at the time that there was this side to his personality that didn’t appear in his writing.”

    Comment by Jim C. — February 20, 2009 @ 11:39 pm - February 20, 2009

  12. >>>OMFG! Bill Moyers wasn’t a saint 45 years ago! Obviously the LIEbruls are all hypocritical neonazis!
    So, umm, what has he done to you lately?

    He didn’t own up to the truth. He is a liar and a coward.

    Comment by Roy Mustang — February 20, 2009 @ 11:51 pm - February 20, 2009

  13. All I can picture right now is all of those useless, self-righteous celebrities at the Oscars several years ago, sitting on their hands and frowning for the cameras as Elia Kazan accepted a lifetime achievement award. Of course, Kazan committed the unforgivable sin of revealing the names of some of his communist buddies who never got to work in the movie business again. And 50 years later, he was still a scumbag as far as the celebrity left was concerned. But this flap with Moyers using presidential authority to snoop around for homosexual activity to use as blackmail material? Eh. No biggie. Plus, it was such a long time ago. Probably just another one of those evil smears from the “Republican Attack Machine” anyway.

    Comment by Sean A — February 20, 2009 @ 11:52 pm - February 20, 2009

  14. The irony of his affiliation with Campbell is that Moyers either didn’t believe what Campell believed, of he just didn’t get it. Yet a third, more terrible, possibility exists: Moyers understood Campbell’s message, but chose instead the path he has chosen. Moyers believed in The Power of Myth, all right, but he believed more strongly in The Power of Pandering.

    In the New Testament, we learn that a special kind of Hell awaits the teachers and priests who use their positions of authority to enrich themselves at others’ expense. Something along those lines indeed awaits the scumbag Moyers. He is one of the most craven, soulless, lying sellouts I have even seen – and I used to work with politicians.

    Comment by Mister Snitch — February 21, 2009 @ 12:00 am - February 21, 2009

  15. #8: Actually I imagine the only thing we would disagree on politically is gay marriage. Which is why it sickens and angers me so much that people I thought I could respect and look up to take a position I find reprehensible to my very core.

    Comment by Attmay — February 21, 2009 @ 12:28 am - February 21, 2009

  16. Bill Moyers has been defrauding the American people for decades. He should be forced to return all salary and benefits he has received. With interest.

    Comment by Ken Hahn — February 21, 2009 @ 1:00 am - February 21, 2009

  17. Great post, and great comments.

    I keep thinking of the “fairness doctrine.” Boy these people have no moral integrity whatsoever.

    Comment by Americaneocon — February 21, 2009 @ 1:02 am - February 21, 2009

  18. “The Left doesn’t really believe in the things they lecture us about”

    Comment by Fen — February 21, 2009 @ 1:25 am - February 21, 2009

  19. So, umm, what has he done to you lately?

    Why, do you think, you hate yourself so much? Remember, baby steps.

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — February 21, 2009 @ 2:18 am - February 21, 2009

  20. “memory is unclear after so many years,” He belongs on Obama’s exciting new team that the MSM said will knock our socks up our asses. I wonder if he pays his taxes if he is so unclear. I hope he is not Catholic that’s a lot of confessions to go to.

    Comment by Nike in NY — February 21, 2009 @ 2:28 am - February 21, 2009

  21. Mom Blogs – Blogs for Moms…

    Trackback by Anonymous — February 21, 2009 @ 5:50 am - February 21, 2009

  22. I’ve always found Moyers to be a shallow, overly self-impressed and sanctimonius idiot.

    I think the word you’re looking for is “douchebag.”

    Comment by V the K — February 21, 2009 @ 10:13 am - February 21, 2009

  23. Moyer’s time frame on his various filthy acts is secondary.Time,without repentance isn’t really a salve.And he’s not acknowledged his ‘queer baiting’,nuclear bomb ads,posswibly being involved in the bugging of Sen Goldwater’s campaign plane (The plane was bugged y the FBI-just not sure if Moyers was the messenger).More recently,he fabricate3d a bunch of quotes by former Sec James Watts about Watts’ beliefs and had to give a kind of (By this I mean a Paul Krugman like) apology.
    Friedman talks of the unfair old saw about the Quakers -”They came to do good,and stayed to do well.”But Moyers has a special deal with PBS to keep his work-in effect a free production company.He sems kind of an empty suit,but one previously occupied by an odiferous individual.

    Comment by corwin — February 21, 2009 @ 10:40 am - February 21, 2009

  24. some of the best Bill Moyers/Douchebag quotes came from NPR-Fundraiser staffers. I don’t have the links, but some magazine articles were published in the mid-to-late 90s which listed some of Moyer’s diva/douchebag issues.

    fwiw, these staffers also didn’t care much for Garrison Keillor.

    -

    Comment by BumperStickerist — February 21, 2009 @ 12:33 pm - February 21, 2009

  25. I am from Texas and I just want to say, I am ashamed that Bill Moyers is from Texas.

    (Sorry, just having a Dixie Chick moment.)

    Regards,
    Peter H.

    Comment by Peter Hughes — February 21, 2009 @ 12:48 pm - February 21, 2009

  26. Long as you don’t try to sing, Peter.

    Comment by DaveP. — February 21, 2009 @ 1:28 pm - February 21, 2009

  27. I honestly don’t know how these people live with themselves, Barney Frank especially. He is a complete waste of humanity.

    Comment by Sean A — February 20, 2009 @ 9:21 pm – February 20, 2009

    I misread that as a WASTE OF HUMILITY.

    Comment by yanni.znaio — February 21, 2009 @ 1:51 pm - February 21, 2009

  28. Lol, DaveP and Peter, that’s a new twist on an old favorite:

    “Speak up and Don’t Sing.”

    Works for me!

    Comment by arminius — February 21, 2009 @ 2:02 pm - February 21, 2009

  29. In order to be a “practioner” (sic) of outing, don’t you have to actually out someone?

    Comment by the dark one — February 21, 2009 @ 2:58 pm - February 21, 2009

  30. Liberals Are Cowards…

    Trackback by Rick's L0g0s — February 21, 2009 @ 3:06 pm - February 21, 2009

  31. A little column in today’s Wall Street Journal Online comments on Mr. Moyers;

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123517518496237441.html?mod=djemEditorialPage

    The comments that follow the column are in the same range as I see here. Some react negatively (what, no love for the honorable PBS commentator?? I’m shocked, SHOCKED!), some are apologists. Liberals do allow each other a certain amount of latitude, probably based on the fact that, well, they’re RIGHT.

    In court, you can show a witness documents to “refresh recollection.” I wonder if that might work for Bill.

    Comment by polly — February 21, 2009 @ 3:24 pm - February 21, 2009

  32. 10: You’re not a conservative, but then you immediately engage in the tired name-calling of so many posters here? huh?

    3: Yes, very true about Goldwater. I recall he also warned Republicans from allying themselves to closely with religious fundamentalists….he was right on that one too.

    13: Yes, Kazan assisted in helping destroy the careers of people solely to save his own skin from being black-listed. Indeed, many people he named were from his days in the group theatre, some 20 years previously, when America was in the depths of the Great Depression and many people, at the time, looked towards the ideals of socialism and even communism. These people flirted with the idea of communism, just like Kazan had done.

    As for Moyers – huge slimebag, just like other political operatives for candidates/elected officials of both parties who’ve engaged in this type of nastiness for their own ends (cough…Karl Rove…cough)

    Comment by Kevin — February 21, 2009 @ 5:24 pm - February 21, 2009

  33. I found this thread via Drudge and have a related question:

    How is the concept of “outting” view by gays in general? Or is there even a general consensus? I recall many years ago reading something arguing that “outting” was important for gays to claim legitimacy in society by not allowing others to live in secret, but I also recall from the time that that view was controversial.

    Comment by Max Schadenfreude — February 21, 2009 @ 5:34 pm - February 21, 2009

  34. Oops, the link was at The Corner, not Drudge.

    “I’ve always found Moyers to be a shallow, overly self-impressed and sanctimonius idiot. Can’t say I was terribly wrong.”

    The word is “fatuous”.

    Comment by Max Schadenfreude — February 21, 2009 @ 5:40 pm - February 21, 2009

  35. Peter H,

    I’ll trade you moyers for buckeyenutlover :P

    Max,

    Speaking from the Dungeon, if not the closet, ‘outing’ is more of an offensive weapon than forcing someone to embrace their lifestyle.

    I’m sure Bruce has some choice words on outing…

    Comment by The_Livewire — February 21, 2009 @ 6:25 pm - February 21, 2009

  36. #32: Max, the gay left views the right to privacy as fundamental and an essential part of a free society. The right to privacy is so paramount to the gay left that it literally emanates from the federal constitution, spontaneously creating a new constitutional right for a word (“privacy”) that doesn’t even appear in the text of the US Constitution. Obviously, the right to privacy has been instrumental in court rulings finding sodomy laws unconstitutional. So, yes, Max, the sanctity of a gay person’s privacy rights is a very big deal to the gay left.

    That is, of course, unless a gay person decides that he or she would rather keep their sexuality private. In that case, if the gay person is in a position to be politically blackmailed, publicly embarrassed, or theocratically disgraced by the gay left because of his or her sexuality, then none of the “fundamental” privacy axioms listed above apply. No, these “closet cases” have no privacy rights whatsoever and the gay left considers “outing” a completely legitimate course of action (if not a moral imperative). So, as with all of the gay left’s “standards,” you must remember that the “double” is always silent. Sometimes privacy is very, very, very important to the gay left. Other times, it’s not important to them at all, it just depends on whether disregarding another gay person’s privacy rights will serve their political agenda (or their petty, vindictive crusades for political revenge). I hope that answers your question sufficiently.

    Comment by Sean A — February 21, 2009 @ 8:24 pm - February 21, 2009

  37. Privacy is important to liberals, they just don’t give a fuck about you and yours.

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — February 21, 2009 @ 8:39 pm - February 21, 2009

  38. As a gay man I abhor outing. Anyone gay or straight that does it are creeps and thugs. The left considers itself so high and mighty about all privacy until it suits their purposes to out someone. By the way it is possible to be gay and in the closet and be against gay marriage and be for civil unions. To be gay and not be a Democrat. To be gay and to be a private person.

    Comment by Gene in Pennsylvania — February 21, 2009 @ 8:42 pm - February 21, 2009

  39. #36: Actually, TGC, that’s exactly what I meant to say. lol

    Comment by Sean A — February 21, 2009 @ 9:42 pm - February 21, 2009

  40. 36: Could you expand on that, instead of just providing a hit and run statement?

    37: Outing someone for the sake of outing them is abhorrent; we do have a right to privacy and if someone who lives a private life doesn’t wish to be out, then that’s entirely their own business. However – when someone who is gay works in their life to do things that hurt others because they are gay (ie drafting anti-gay legislation), then outing them is completely legitimate. If you want to stay in the closet, then so be it; but how can you expect that you deserve smooth sailing in your own life if you want to hurt others who are just like yourself?

    I’m very much interested on hearing why a person who’s gay would be against gay marriage and civil unions.

    Comment by Kevin — February 21, 2009 @ 10:24 pm - February 21, 2009

  41. “Isn’t using the FBI to dig up dirt on political opponents kind of similar to what Nixon did in Watergate? ”

    Well, actually, as we now know, it was quite the opposite. The FBI (Deep Throat) flung dirt at Nixon. How much dug up or manufactured remains to be seen.

    Comment by Strawman Cometh — February 21, 2009 @ 10:38 pm - February 21, 2009

  42. And Kevin’s post seems to back up what others have said ‘you can live your life, but if you don’t do what I want, I’ll destroy that life.’

    Comment by The_Livewire — February 21, 2009 @ 11:40 pm - February 21, 2009

  43. Kevin, thank you for unequivocally confirming everything in comment # 35. The Gay Left has the utmost respect for privacy rights, except (of course) when people like you personally decide that a private citizen forfeits those rights if they dare to live their lives and engage in work that you might subjectively conclude is “hurtful” to you. The [shhhhh...DOUBLE] standard boils down to either (1) choosing to live a private life in exchange for not supporting legislation that well,…makes Kevin sad…, OR (2) engage in whatever employment you wish with the understanding that if it has any connection to legislation-that-makes-Kevin-sad you will find yourself branded the town homo and you will be living an openly gay life forced on you by a fascist, self-righteous twit who somehow decided that he has the right to make such decisions about other people’s lives. I guess that makes you Head Commissar of the Don’t-Make-Kevin-Sad-Or-Your-Parents-and-Employer-Will-Be-Told-You’re-A-Homo-Politburo.

    Kevin, with standards like that, you’d better hope that groups of random strangers don’t just decide that you and all other gays have done something to consequently “hurt” their lives because pursuant to your logic, if this were to occur, you can’t expect to deserve “smooth sailing” for the rest of your life from those people. But hey, if you’re comfortable making those kinds of determinations against others and taking action, then I guess you’ll be just as comfortable with strangers making those unilateral decisions and taking action regarding YOUR LIFE too.

    Kevin, I know I’ve had the occasion to ask you this before, but I’m still waiting for an answer: Who The Fu*k Do You Think You Are?

    P.S. I have not included the telephone numbers of my boss, parents, or brother because you’d likely find them useless to your Politburo’s objectives–unfortunately, they already know I’m gay. But let me know if you’d still like to give them a buzz anyway just to make sure they know that I’m not just gay, but really, really gay.

    Comment by Sean A — February 21, 2009 @ 11:49 pm - February 21, 2009

  44. Kevin has insulted commenters here and stated that all Republicans want to exterminate gays.

    By his logic, then, we should be able to take his IP address, email address, and any information that we glean from those, and then carpet-bomb his workplace, his home, and his community with those statements. We should be able to picket his house, demand that his employer fire him, and do our best to wreck his life.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — February 22, 2009 @ 12:19 am - February 22, 2009

  45. [...] find similar evidence of homosexual activity. Mr. Moyers’ memo to the FBI was in one of the files. Gay Patriot (who gets the Hat Tip for the links) asks: "Isn’t using the FBI to dig up dirt on political [...]

    Pingback by Bill Moyers - Peeping Donk - Southern Maryland Community Forums — February 22, 2009 @ 2:13 am - February 22, 2009

  46. #43: When you’re right, you’re right, NDT. I didn’t bring it up because I have tried desperately to block out the memories, but like you, I was DEEPLY HURT by Kevin’s comments linking us Republicans to a pre-meditated, systematic, gay holocaust in the works. (I still wake up screaming some nights, cursed with the stigma of Kevin’s accusations.) Of course, I personally find the practice of outing “abhorrent” and staunchly believe that people’s private lives are “entirely their own business.” However, I think the pain and emotional suffering we have all endured from Kevin’s vicious attacks on GP.com render the consequences you’ve proposed “completely legitimate.” I mean, it’s not like Kevin should be allowed to make such attacks and then expect it to be “smooth sailing” in his own life from now on.

    So, let’s get to work. I think we can safely limit our wrecking of Kevin’s life to “home” and “community” and leave “workplace” out of it since I…well…let’s just say I can’t really picture Kevin having an actual job or an employer to contact. That will certainly save us some time as we go about wrecking his life and trashing his name in the community.

    Comment by Sean A — February 22, 2009 @ 2:19 am - February 22, 2009

  47. [...] Dan Blatt reminds me, where are the professional gay rights lobby’s demands for a public apology from Moyers for his attempts to dig up dirt on politicians’ sexual preferences? I must have missed that. [...]

    Pingback by Commentary » Blog Archive » Flotsam and Jetsam — February 22, 2009 @ 6:56 am - February 22, 2009

  48. Privacy is important to liberals, they just don’t give a fuck about you and yours.

    Not just outing, look at Joe Wurzelbacher. All he ever did was ask Chairman Zero a question that he answered embarrassingly. For that, state employees and campaign operatives looked through his private records and released any dirt they found to the media.

    The left invented the idea that the personal is political… perhaps the most insidious notion ever inflicted on the body politic. If you seek to oppose their ideological agenda, they will seek to destroy you personally.

    Comment by V the K — February 22, 2009 @ 8:01 am - February 22, 2009

  49. 41: Then you clearly didn’t read my post all the way through – live your life the way you want, but if you then turn around and try to destroy others who are like you and want to live their life, then you’ve given up your right to privacy and be protected.

    I’ve watched for years as conservatives have attacked an demonized liberals for their liberal agendas, but when they engage in the same behaviors or are confronted with the same situations, they always get a free ride somehow. Here are a few recent examples.

    john kerry – attacked as being a gigolo for marrying a wealthy woman
    john mccain – obtained a divorce to marry the wealthy woman he had been cheating with while he was married.

    hillary clinton – carpetbagged her way to NY to become an elected official
    john mccain – carpetbagged his way to AZ to become an elected official

    drug users in general – lock em up and throw away the key
    rush limbaugh – forgiveness for his disease.

    Sarah Palin – full support of abstinence only sex “education” and nothing else (along with McCain)
    Bristol Palin – unmarried, pregnant teen who just this week called these programs unrealistic

    and, in general: people who run around, espousing what everyone’s morals for relationships should be, yet regularly troll the internet (and other places) to find new ways to cheat on their spouses, partners, etc.

    I’m tired of you people whining about how awful liberals are for lumping you together with anti-gay groups. While, like many, I’m not happy about seeing things like the votes against gay marriage coming from all walks of life, I’d like someone out there to show me any place where these initiatives were proposed by anyone other than conservative republicans. or where democratic political platforms put in writing their opposition to homosexuals. Check out the written platform of the 2008 Texas GOP – Of course their opposition to homosexuality is lumped under “Celebrating Traditional Marriage”, so that must mean they’re not really opposed to gays – just gays engaging in that most sacred chestnut of marriage. At least the national GOP platform is only slightly better – using homosexual only once to describe incompatibility with military service, but using “same-sex” under the marriage areas.

    As I’ve read this blog over the past few years, posters and respondents continually try to make some kind of case that it is conservatives who are in the fore-front for personal liberty and actually advancing gayrights. Nope, sorry…….big buzzer on that one.

    45: Believe it or not, I have a great professional job that I enjoy, make good money and (at least for the time being) I won’t be laid off from in the near future. I consider myself quite lucky that I was born in this country, that I was able to get where I am with a mixture of my own skill and ambition along with the education I received and some good luck along the way.

    Comment by Kevin — February 22, 2009 @ 10:12 am - February 22, 2009

  50. For those of you just joining us, let me distill Kevin’s rebuttal.

    Pt 1 “You quoted me out of context! How dare you take exactly what I said and use it against me!”

    Pt 2. “You’re evvvilll. You have standards you occasionally fail to live up to. How dare you be human! I don’t have any standards, so I’m exempt.”

    Pt 3. “Look over here as I change the subject!”

    Pt 4. “Let me say again I believe in destroying anyone who disagrees with my agenda, but don’t you dare use that against me.”

    Pt. 5 “I will use my greater liberal intellect to read your minds and defame you, while not backing up my statements and ignoring that they are contradicted by reality!”

    Thank you, we now return you to your regularly scheduled blog.

    Comment by The Livewire — February 22, 2009 @ 10:29 am - February 22, 2009

  51. Wow. The vitriol on this blog and from the posters is on the same level as I’ve seen in vids from Sarah Palin rallies. You folks need to regulate the hate.

    Newsflash: if you think that being allied with people like Tom Coburn, Jim DeMint, Marilyn Musgrave and Michelle Bachmann are going to make them like you and provide you equal rights, you’re wrong.

    Comment by TG — February 22, 2009 @ 10:41 am - February 22, 2009

  52. In the same way that the left holds certain beliefs about conservatives and/or Republicans, regardless of the facts of the matter, i.e. Bush is Hitler, they can ignore the facts about a person like Moyers. In the former case, whatever they believe is true, is true, regardless. In the latter, facts notwithstanding, nothing said about Moyers can possibly be true. It is just ‘wingnut propoganda’.

    By the way, now that President Bush is out of office, does Rush get to be Hitler again?

    Comment by Broadsword — February 22, 2009 @ 10:44 am - February 22, 2009

  53. #34 – LW, I’m not sure who would be getting the best of the bargain between Moyers and Nut Lover. ;-)

    Plus, I enjoyed your liberal translation above. You should work for the UN!

    Regards,
    Peter H.

    Comment by Peter Hughes — February 22, 2009 @ 11:03 am - February 22, 2009

  54. LW, thank you for your rebuttal. You stated more clearly than I could my reaction to Kevin.

    Also, when did gay marriage become the litmus test for being pro gay!
    I know conservative gays who feel that marriage is for the purpose of creating families, and that families need a mother and father.
    I know libertine gays who love the freedom of defining their own relationships and want nothing to do with the shackles of marriage.

    But to Kevin, both these examples are evil, because he sees gay marriage as paramount to everything else.

    What about private don’t you understand??? Why do you have the right to be the thought police???
    Why is it every day I see more and more evidence that liberalism has simply become the new fascism? Freedom of having different ideas and opinions is no longer allowed.

    Kevin, I’m unimpressed, your arguments are shallow. Why not simply come out and admit it, all you want is to punish people who disagree with you – you are using your liberalism as a cover for being a bully.

    Comment by Leah — February 22, 2009 @ 11:37 am - February 22, 2009

  55. You folks need to regulate the hate.

    Spoken by the same leftists who are hanging Sarah Palin in effigy, screaming outside restaurants and businesses over $100 political donations, and fully supporting and endorsing the Obama Party and its position on gays.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — February 22, 2009 @ 12:26 pm - February 22, 2009

  56. #50: Excellent recap, The Livewire. And also, great comment, Leah.

    I also love the fact that Commissar Kevin’s list of conservatives who have supposedly gotten a “free ride” for their personal transgressions is yet more damning evidence that the Left DOES NOT respect the constitutional rights of its political adversaries.

    Finally, I hope everyone had their Moonbat to English dictionary handy when Cmsr. Kevin used the term “free ride.” You’ll note that in Moonbat, “free ride” is defined as “cataclysmic media sh*tstorm engineered by leftist political operatives in cooperation with the MSM to accomplish ruinous personal and professional destruction against political adversaries that ultimately failed in achieving its insidious objective.”

    Comment by Sean A — February 22, 2009 @ 12:26 pm - February 22, 2009

  57. Again, the funny part is that Kevin and his Obama Party ilk have already stated that endorsing and supporting gay marriage bans and calling gays “degenerate”, among other things, is pro-gay and gay-supportive.

    The reason he and his Obama Party faggot ilk need to scream that Republicans want to exterminate gays is because they’re covering up for their own support and endorsement of these things.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — February 22, 2009 @ 12:32 pm - February 22, 2009

  58. Oh wow, yes, I guess my question has been answered. LOL

    I guess I will out myself a bit here, so to speak, in the belief that I will be coming back frequently.

    Out myself? No, I’m not gay. Rather I am one of those conservatives who opposes gay marriage. I don’t politic on it. I don’t raise money or give money for any cause. But I do voice my opinion of the matter.

    However, I would rather not voice my opinion on the matter here (beyond what I have just done). Why? Because I don’t want to alienate myself from conservative gays with whom I can find great affinity. I guess it comes from my thought that we are so much more than our sexuality.

    I’ve spent no small amount of time “debating” online with liberal gays, and I think it safe to say they don’t like me. That’s okay. What bothers me is the petulant rebukes I recieve to things I’ve not said, positions I don’t hold, etc.

    Anyway, I offer that bit as a full disclosure that I come as a conservative friend despite the fact that I most likely disagree wholeheartedly on a particular point that most likely is a fundamental issue here. And I do so in the desire to develop gay friends with whom I can discuss matters dispassionately and cordially.

    I will now duck down a bit to see if the shoes start flying! ;-)

    Comment by Max Schadenfreude — February 22, 2009 @ 4:43 pm - February 22, 2009

  59. “You folks need to regulate the hate.”

    This statement is a great conflation of what seems to be two basic memes of the left:

    1) Disagreement with anything held to be good by the left is automatically seen as hatred. This goes hand in glove with the fact that hatred held by the left is always projected on to the right.

    2) The innate compulsion to regulate everything. Forget about freedom, forget about privacy, heck, forget about bad weather. WE MUST REGULATE!

    Comment by Max Schadenfreude — February 22, 2009 @ 4:50 pm - February 22, 2009

  60. ‘you folks need to regulate the hate’

    And who says liberals don’t like competition?

    Would that hatred at the Sarah Palin rallies be the one guy hearing ‘kill him’ when no one else did?

    Or maybe it was the Sarah Palin followers throwing Oreos at Michael Steele?

    Oh, wait, that wasn’t Republicans, that was ‘regulated’ hate. Carry on.

    Comment by The Livewire — February 22, 2009 @ 5:11 pm - February 22, 2009

  61. Max,

    I’ve made my feelings on gay marriage, and how to go forward several times. It’s a sticking point for Attmay (he really hates my ‘fred” idea) but other than that point we’re in agreement on more things than not. So don’t get overly uncomfortable. Pull up a beer and join the rest of us straight visitors. Just watch out for the libs and their spewing ‘self hatred’ everywhere. Sometimes you need hip boots to walk though.

    Comment by The Livewire — February 22, 2009 @ 5:15 pm - February 22, 2009

  62. Sorry for the OT, but I just dropped by from NRO, and I have to say that I love your site. I am 46, veteran, conservative republican, and for years I have contemplated relationship of conservative gays to the republican party. You clearly know more about this subject than I, but I am with you: if you are a patriotic American, there is nowhere else to go (I know, Sarah Palin said the same thing and got slammed. Message to critics: go f*** yourselves). Also as clear, if you are an evangelical values voter, there is nowhere else to go, either. So how do we make our tent big enough for both? I have no idea, I just know that it is the right thing to do, for both groups, and it somehow must be done. Some conservatives think that the evangelical right controls our party, and that notion just makes me sick. They are our allies, not our rulers, and they get 90% of what they want from us. The 10% they don’t get are people such as you. I will try to stop by your site more in the future. Good luck with your endeavor, and have a great day.

    Comment by howard — February 22, 2009 @ 7:31 pm - February 22, 2009

  63. 61: “It’s a sticking point for Attmay (he really hates my ‘fred” idea) but other than that point we’re in agreement on more things than not.”

    When I ask my boyfriend to fred me, maybe I’ll invite you. :D

    Comment by Attmay — February 23, 2009 @ 1:31 am - February 23, 2009

  64. As I’ve read this blog over the past few years, posters and respondents continually try to make some kind of case that it is conservatives who are in the fore-front for personal liberty and actually advancing gayrights. Nope, sorry…….big buzzer on that one.

    Nobody ever said “gay rights”, but the rights of all persons. What have the liberals done to advance the rights of anybody, gay or straight?

    or where democratic political platforms put in writing their opposition to homosexuals.

    It’s not in liberal platforms because they don’t stow the gear necessary to be honest with their voters. They refuse to tell the truth and keep ignorant masses, like you, believing that they actually give a fuck about you.

    45: Believe it or not, I have a great professional job that I enjoy, make good money and (at least for the time being) I won’t be laid off from in the near future. I consider myself quite lucky that I was born in this country, that I was able to get where I am with a mixture of my own skill and ambition along with the education I received and some good luck along the way.

    Believe it or not, I think it’s about time you coughed up some of your cash. I need a new truck, better paying job and a new TV. A new computer would be nice too. It’s up to you to provide it. It’s cool if you want to send it Western Union. Just let me know and I’ll give you the details.

    Wow. The vitriol on this blog and from the posters is on the same level as I’ve seen in vids from Sarah Palin rallies. You folks need to regulate the hate.

    The obvious difference is that we’re posting our comments here and liberals aren’t doctoring them to include things that were never said and foisting them on the ill-informed masses.

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — February 23, 2009 @ 6:41 am - February 23, 2009

  65. Attmay,

    If I can make it, I’d be happy to go.

    Just don’t ask me to call it Marriage ;-)

    Comment by The Livewire — February 23, 2009 @ 7:19 am - February 23, 2009

  66. john kerry – attacked as being a gigolo for marrying a wealthy woman
    john mccain – obtained a divorce to marry the wealthy woman he had been cheating with while he was married.

    There was more than one rich woman Kerry married for money.

    hillary clinton – carpetbagged her way to NY to become an elected official
    john mccain – carpetbagged his way to AZ to become an elected official

    After serving in the USN, WHERE should he have been an elected official from? Not only that, but he was working for his father-in-law’s company before he got into politics. What was Hillary’s connection to NY?

    drug users in general – lock em up and throw away the key
    rush limbaugh – forgiveness for his disease.

    You do realize, as any 3rd grader does, that there’s a difference between recreational drug abuse and an addiction to a prescribed controlled substance, right? I’d hate to think that you’re THAT fucking stupid. Not to mention that, after two years, nothing could be found proving that he broke the law.

    Further, the LIBERALS attempted to violate his privacy in the process. Now, thanks to Chairman Obama’s porkulus, the feds can take a look at everybody’s medical records. Where’s the ACLU on that one?

    Sarah Palin – full support of abstinence only sex “education” and nothing else (along with McCain)
    Bristol Palin – unmarried, pregnant teen who just this week called these programs unrealistic

    Yeah, spreading your legs really works well, don’t it?

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — February 23, 2009 @ 7:51 am - February 23, 2009

  67. [...] Bill Moyers to Mike Rogers – liberals now have a documented history of shamelessly and [...]

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  68. [...] American Spectator has a first rate article tweaking the attempt to Blame Hoover for the actions of Bill Moyers during the LBJ era: The Washington Post’s scoop, and Moyers’s non-denial denial, [...]

    Pingback by The Indispensable man « DaTechguy’s Blog — February 23, 2009 @ 8:19 am - February 23, 2009

  69. “Sarah Palin – full support of abstinence only sex “education” and nothing else”

    That’s a complete lie.

    Comment by Rob Crawford — February 23, 2009 @ 11:43 am - February 23, 2009

  70. #65: Then you lose the invitation. Sorry.

    Comment by Attmay — February 23, 2009 @ 11:52 pm - February 23, 2009

  71. [...] much did the folks at Pajamas like my piece, Bill Moyers: The Power of Outing, they asked me to write followup piece for their [...]

    Pingback by GayPatriot » What Really Drives Bill Moyers — February 24, 2009 @ 9:30 am - February 24, 2009

  72. [...] addressing the recent revelations about how Bill Moyers, when in the Johnson White House, requested the FBI investigate the private [...]

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