On Saturday night over dinner, a friendly acquaintance and I had a wide-ranging discussion about a number of topics, including gender difference, sexual ethics and marital fidelity.
For both of us (I learned in the course of the evening that he was gay), monogamy is non-negotiable in a relationship. When I mentioned that I knew several gay men in open relationships, he asked me if I thought their relationships were fulfilling.
I commented that such friends seem happy, that it wasn’t for me to judge. He pressed me on the point and I really couldn’t answer, having never probed those guys about their relationships’ well-being. A small “l” libertarian, valuing freedom and recognizing human difference, I thought they could be. But, another part of me, knowing human nature, wondered if that were so.
And then, as is my wont, when I’m not certain about my answer, I rambled a bit, illustrating my point, but each illustration seemed to pull me further from the more “libertarian” answer I had offered to such questions in recent years: an open relationship is not the choice I would make, but who am I to say that such an arrangement wouldn’t work for others.
In an open relationship, at a difficult time when you’d want to stray, you might more readily seek satisfaction with someone else rather than face those difficulties. A partner in a monogamous union would likely still be attracted to other guys, but in rejecting their advances would be affirming his feelings for his partner, a sign of how much he valued their bond.
Such were my thoughts and the more I articulated them, the more I realized how monogamy fosters intimacy, helps deepen the connection. Later, as I considered our conversation (especially as I watched Spanglish), I wondered if perhaps I had shifted my once firmly-held belief that monogamy was essential to a fulfilling relationship so as not to appear out of sync with the reigning ethos of gay world.
Ever a libertarian, I still believe people must be allowed the choice to remain faithful. But, I wonder if, in making that choice, they deprive themselves of the full benefits of their relationship.
Since when has marriage “forced” monogamy on people except by choice? When you make those vows it doesn’t make your privates drop off…and seeing our society, it apparently doesn’t stop people from screwing around. What’s current divorce statistics at? 60%? Wonder how many of those are from infidelity?
As far as gay open relationships, I wonder if it’s not a product of what many of us have had to go through to have dating/sex lives. We party. We play. Sometimes going out and getting laid was the only time we could be 100% unabashedly gay before returning to the world of breeders locking us back into a closet to hide until the weekend. That party mentality is hard to push away. It’s hard to adapt to not going out dancing every weekend. It’s hard to forget that “live for the moment for tomorrow we may die” attitude. Especially since gay culture is so driven by youth and sex.
For me, it was easyish, I hated the bars and smoke, hated the chase, hated that it was soooo hard to find decent people. Some people never out grow it…never admit they aren’t the blond headed party boy that turns every head. They chase the thrill. I find the “boredom” of marriage comforting…many don’t. I guess it takes all kinds. Who are any of us to judge?
One point to consider is that “open relationship” doesn’t necessarily mean “Honey, I’m going out to find a trick — dinner’s in the fridge! Love, Shmoopikins.”
For some couples, it means finding a third for an occasional three-way, or going to a J/O Club together.
Following up on my previous comment: is “We’re monogamous, but we ‘swing'” a contradiction in terms?
Also, I certainly don’t mean to claim that (for example) a couple going to a sex resort together is free of emotional risks; I’m just saying that if this constitutes a form of “open relationship” and thus non-monogamy, it’s non-monogamy of an extremely different sort from a situation where you have two guys in an LTR who live together and share a bed, yet each dates other men by mutual permission.
Technically, it doesn’t force it on anyone. But the entire concept of marriage, or holy matrimony, is rooted in the biblical concept of man joining with woman to become one flesh. Not that marriage is solely a religious institution, just saying, thats where the institution came from and people who enter into thinking it is means open relationships are being disingenuous. This is further corroborated by the fact that adultery is grounds for divorce anywhere and everywhere.
I have never met anyone in an open relationship that lasted. Probably for the same reason that the phrase “long-term relationship” originated with gays — because they don’t want to talk about permanent relationships.
Crap!
I’m having a hard time imagining a situation in which someone doesn’t have the “choice” to remain faithful. Isn’t that the virtue – and beauty – of a truly monogamous relationship? That the people in it are constantly making a choice to be there when practically nothing at all in our no-fault divorce states keeps them together?
#4
“Not that marriage is solely a religious institution, just saying, thats where the institution came from and people who enter into thinking it is means open relationships are being disingenuous.”
I agree with what you said but my point was, neither fear of hell fire nor force of the courts have really ever kept people from breaking their vows of monogamy. It’s a nice concept, I support it 100% but I think honestly very few in society do (gay and straight) which is very sad. Open relationships are some weird formula for trying to have the “best of both worlds” and it is disingenuous. You make a vow to share bills, worries, strife…good and bad and yet, some think a devoted love life doesn’t fit in that equation. To me, you can’t be just mostly married. All or none and that includes fidelity.
#5 “If nobody “judgesâ€, you wind up like liberals, sticking your dick in every opening you can find and eschewing standards, morals, rules etc.”
Sorry, that’s just not true. You can live a moral life and have standards without imposing those standards on others until if and when they infringe on you. G-d forbid that I become a liberal but having values that govern my life (at least in the bedroom or in marriage) shouldn’t give me the authority to expect them of others. If people want to make their bed, let them lie in it….I can make mine and sleep fine NOT telling people when and where and with whom they can sleep with.
TGC,
You are being punished for mocking me when I did it. 😛 🙂
Dan, it’s one thing not to judge the relationship others have formed or meshed/mashed out for themselves –but for MM-partner and I, monogamy is a demonstration of our love and commitment to each other. And, frankly, I’m not sure that adopting the standard of monogamy for gay relationships isn’t all that bad for our community’s image with society at large… and we do, despite what the DADT or SSM folks tell us, still have huge PR problems with MOST people.
If other gay couples want to “act” or declare they have committed relationship but then continue to have sex with others outside their relationship, I think they’re woefully missing the enriching aspect that monogamy brings to a love-centered relationship. If they can’t appreciate the value of a love-centered relationship, why are they acting like they’re a part of a mature, other-centered relationship?
When people hear of married hetero couples sleeping around the office, it usually brings with it a condemnation of implied immoral conduct -whether or not they know the couple. I’ve found, that with gay couples, it usually brings a note of “well, that’s just us” and excuses all around.
It’s amazing that society thinks we’ll act selflessly in a committed relationship… when we don’t expect that as a community.
David, I think we agree. Except I disagree with you that very few in society support it, if by “it” you mean fidelity.
The thought that goes through my head when I encounter discussion like this one is the evil of jealousy and suspicion that comes with too heavy of an emphasis on fidelity. My father was a jealous man. I would say a million times over that it is far better for a partner to occasionally stray than to have jealousy and suspicion in a relationship. An over-emphasis on monogamy that we see in some of the ideas here has done far more evil than a little adultery. There is honor killing still in this world.
So… it’s better to know your partner is an unfaithful ho than to merely suspect?
DoDoGuRu, That made Mt Dew come out of my nose.
Speaking from experience, it is better to know. That way you can leave, instead of beating yourself up going “She wouldn’t do that…”
thuja offers: “… when I encounter discussion like this one is the evil of jealousy and suspicion that comes with too heavy of an emphasis on fidelity. My father was a jealous man.”
Thuja, the upshot of fidelity is not jealousy. The upshot of fidelity (trust) is a nuturing, supportive, loving relationship. Dysfunctional jealousy is a cancer on a relationship –and in my world, it is a sin the equal of adultery. Jealousy doesn’t arise out of fidelity; it arises out of a flawed character deeply in need of redemption and healing.
To argue for a tempered fidelity (which is to say no fidelity) in order to assuage someone’s potential to be jealous is to literally toss the baby out with the bath water. It’s lunancy of the first order.
Your answer to your father’s jealousy isn’t to tolerate a breach in fidelity and allow a little adultery in a relationship every now and then… it’s to confront that jealousy as a true evil and discover why you’d be willing to hazard fidelity and monogamy so that you aren’t reminded of men like your father. “Too heavy an emphasis on fidelity”? Really? Is that just for gays or does society expect too much from all?
As a Christian, I believe my body is a temple of the Holy Spirit. I don’t own my sexuality–it is a gift from God and I am its steward. Therefore, my goal is not my own happiness–my goal is to honor God with my body. I have given my sexuality over to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, along with everything else I have. As His disciple, I plan to have sex only with the person He brings into my life as my life partner. I plan to make public vows with that person, in front of God, my friends, family and church, and in those vows I plan to promise to forsake all others, ’til death do us part.
I truly believe that the most worthwhile things in life come through sacrifice. The sacrifice of the desire for physical self-gratification is necessary to achieve the higher reward of true intimacy.
Wow–let’s send a copy of this thread to the Mormon Church! I’m sure it will allay all their fears that the gay community is not trying to subvert and undermine traditional marriage.
Marriage is not a human creation. Marriage is created by God. I don’t own my sexuality. My sexuality is a gift from God of which I am the only the steward. I want to honor God with my body. I am only going to have sex with the person God has set aside to be my partner.
#11 “David, I think we agree. Except I disagree with you that very few in society support it, if by “it†you mean fidelity.”
I was being overly harsh on society early in the morning. I’m pretty jaded by increasing divorce statistics here in the US.
I believe that open relationships can be a lot of fun in the short run, but they do not provide the building blocks for a lasting relationship. At some point, jealousy will get in the way (“would you rather be with him than me?”) and, as David notes, this approach makes it too easy to avoid the hard parts of a relationship–parts that are not fun but are essential to growth and long-term stability.
I wonder about the three-way. My wife and I have discussed it, but have not acted on it. My own thought is that if we are both in the bed, then it is not a monogamy issue. An “open relationship” is one where one partner can have sex that does not involve the other.
I always thought that monogamy was the most important element in a relationship, for two reasons. First and foremost is it is the foundation for trust. Secondly, I felt it guaranteed mutual health. I didn´t want to hear ¨I love you so much that I´ll even share my VD with you.¨I wonder can there be trust in an open or a limited open relationship? Is it possible for three people to be equally in love with each other? It seemed so with me. It was distance that took me a way from them yet they still wish for me to return.
tim,
I’ve seen quite a few polyamourous relationships. Yes jealousy is a major issue, but some people can make it work. it’s also very hard, and unusual.
I’m pleading ignorance here. I don’t understand (sexual) adultery. Love — true love — is to hold someone in the very highest regard and that kind of appreciation is such a tonic in every sense (including sexual) that a cheap affair is inconceivable. It’s not merely that I don’t want to hurt him and risk the relationship; it’s that I simply have no desire to seek something I don’t really want. Sure, sexual desire is physical but there is an intellectual element to sexual activity, meaning the knowledge of who he is and what he represents, his habits and reactions I find so attractive, etc. that I just want to do him. The question isn’t “Why would you want to stray?” but “Do you want to stray?” and the answer is ‘No.’
It is interesting that no one wants to address the issue–what is God’s will, what is God’s design for a relationship? As Rick Warren says, “It’s not about you.” Life is about being a faithful steward of God’s gifts. My homosexuality is a gift from God–but it comes with responsibilities. My goal is to honor God with my choices. God’s design for sexuality, gay and straight, is monogamy–whether that brings me marital bliss or not. Monogamy brings joy to God, and that’s what counts.
A Mormon would understand that. Rick Warren would understand that. Why doesn’t the gay community understand that? Or even bother to consider it or discuss it?
Well then perhaps you’ll be happy to know they aren’t increasing. contrary to the myths and misreporting you hear, the divorce rate in the US is around 33%, has been declining steadily since the 1970’s, and continues to decline.
not everyone is religious, ashpenaz.
Ashpenaz — Amen, Brother! Sounds like we come from the same tradition. Glad to know there are guys like you out there!
Ash posits: “It is interesting that no one wants to address the issue–what is God’s will, what is God’s design for a relationship? As Rick Warren says, “It’s not about you.†”
Um, I think if God really cared about what Her design was for my relationship She’d tell me in a dream or visitation. Better yet, She’d tell the Pope to tell me because he is Her personally chosen, personal representative on Earth.
Not all of us attend mega-churches of the Feel Good Faith, Ash. Some of us belong to the One True Faith.
Interesting comment there, MM. The “One True Faith”? What, pray tell, might that be? I’m agnostic, so help me out here.
We know. You delight in telling us every chance you get.
It is interesting that no one wants to address the issue–what is God’s will, what is God’s design for a relationship?
A couple of problems with that, Asphenaz. Even among reglious persons, there is plenty of difference of what God’s will is and/or how to go about it. The other problem is that, even if what you say about God and sexuality is true, you’re going to have a LONG wait if you sit there waiting for God to take care of things for you. God helps those who help themselves, right?
Interesting comment there, MM. The “One True Faith� What, pray tell, might that be?
Jimbo, I suppose for many people it depends on what religion one belongs to. In Matt’s case, I suppose it’s Roman Catholicism. I think there was a little tongue in cheek there.
Pat, a lot of tongue in cheek… thanks.
The wife and I will have 45 years of faithful, monogamous marriage come September. We sometimes quarrel and then I realize I was wrong and we putter on like a couple of old cartoon characters. Oscar Levant once said that “marriage is the triumph of habit over hate.” He was right. It is a commitment to smooth over the differences and to dwell on the shared joy of loving companionship. That takes effort and and time. You have to develop a joint personality and have the strength of character to absorb your life partner into your soul. That does not leave much room for others. I can not imagine the tearing guilt of infidelity or the stress of polygamy.
What makes some people happy does not make others happy. If one accepts his inability to live monogamously and is open about it, it is morally acceptable. As long as one understands the risks of living that way.
It may be useful to consider that the “reigning ethos” may only appear to be the dominant pattern. Many people live quietly and you never hear about what they are doing.
The vast majority of my observations of gay men in open relationships (all of my relationships, including my current one in its sixth year, have been monogamous) run along the lines of ‘settling’ to settle down with the caveat that, “If I meet some one ‘hotter’ than you, then I get to have sex with him.” This correlates with observations of single gay men who want to hook-up and/or settle down, but seem afraid to because as soon as they commit, either for a night or a lifetime, they’ll meet some one ‘better.’ To put it in a nut shell: they want their cake and eat it, too. Though I do agree that there’s an aspect of ’emotional immaturity’ brought on by that fact that we don’t learn the same lessons in our teen years as our heterosexual counterparts.
My partner and I have also grown weary of being treated like social pariahs when we decline offers to have sex outside our relationship with the explanation that we’re monogamous. We’ve been asked what we have against sex and have been screamed at in bars by other patrons who insist that if we’re not cruising for sex, then we have no business being there!
I’m not going to go around telling people that open relationships are wrong and that they shouldn’t have them, but it works for me (and maybe they should give it a try).
I don’t judge (each to her own), so if monogamy isn’t your thing, more power to you. But, and I’m just guessing, if there was more of a focus on monogamy in our community, just maybe, it would be empowering and most beneficial for acceptance and integration into mainstream society.
There are tens of millions of people in this country who honestly believe that all gay men are sluts who had weak or absent father/son relationships and overbearing mothers (and lesbians are all sexually abused truck-drivers) and gay marriage is one step away from pedophilia. Most of them are nut-jobs. But, they’re human beings and their opinions have influence.
We need to fight, but we need to be smart and honor the other side. Know thy enemy.
The less fuel they have for their fires, the easier it will be for us to earn our rightful place in this country. I value monogamy for myself and my partner. It’s a standard. One that affords respect and ultimately acceptance.
as a Christian, gay male, i believe n monogamy!
i’ve always wanted 2 b with that 1 person “till death do us part”-that’s y i don’t go out 2 the clubs/gay scene etc [mayb that’s y i’m 35 & still single :P]
sadly, what i see n the “gay community” is “hook-up/sex party” stuff-there’s NOTHIN 2 help those of us who want & DESIRE a lifetime relationship make it!
we don’t have the TOOLS [ie-BOOKS from people who’ve lived n a committed relationship] to make a monogamous relationship
i’m sure i’m n the minority with my ideals, but i’m already a double minority [Christian & gay, as well as Right-of-Center & gay] 😛