I personally tend to shy away from both distinctions because on the far end of either side you get the sort of crap that I’ve been reading in this and in the replies to this post. It’s all just holier-than-thou bickering about how terrible people who don’t agree with you are. On both sides. Honestly, try tucking your agenda in a drawer some day and living a little. And I don’t mean by abandoning all your morals and beliefs, and running out and getting smashed, having tons of promiscuous sex, and slandering the government like you all seem to think any gay who isn’t a conservative Republican does. Just spend a day or two not worrying so much about it.

Seriously.

This is where the grand contradiction or hypocrisy comes in. If you don´t agree with them they react with hostility, e.g. Bush bashing (but heaven forbid if you are critical of the anointed one) Hate America but embrace radical terrorists and dictators like Hamas, Ahmadjinedad, Hugo Chavez, and Los Hermanos Castro Castro.

The real problem with white heterosexual liberals is either a conscious or subconscious guilt feeling… Some white liberals are masochistic, they have a desire to be punished, which explains the ¨hate America¨syndrome.

But it’s a racket. Their feeling of moral inferiority paradoxically gives them a feeling of moral superiority.

I think your points are valid, Roberto, and I’m going to re-visit what I said at #23 and try to integrate the two. Liberals feel guilty (or morally inferior). They want to feel virtuous (or morally superior). And they want it fast. They don’t want to work at, i.e., to actually do the difficult things that society traditionally recognizes as morally superior. They want a shortcut.

Their shortcut is this: They reject the very concept of moral superiority, i.e., the very idea that anything can be authentically, morally better than anything else… and then interpret their rejection of the concept as proof of their moral superiority. Yes, it’s crazy. Yes, it’s a self-contradiction, a position of zero integrity. They don’t care about that; or even worse, they take the fact that you and I don’t reject such obvious contradictions as further proof of how smart and wise and moral *they* are.

Their moral and psychological stance is like this: “My friends and I understand how truly rotten we are, how rotten everybody is, and how rotten America is. Conservatives can’t see it; we do. We grant that America’s vicious enemies are in the right. Therefore, we’re better.”

Evan Sayet (in the speech I mentioned earlier: http://ace.mu.nu/archives/284342.php) puts it like this. Modern liberals reject the idea of noticing that A is better than B as “discrimination”. The very idea that that hard work is morally and practically better than stealing; that abstinence is morally and practically better than promiscuity; that Israel and/or America are morally and practically better than al Qaeda; is “discriminatory”. They are determined to never discriminate. And that means nothing can ever be admitted to being authentically better than anything else. And that means that the better position and results enjoyed by America, by Israel, by people who work, etc. must be due to cheating. It must be undeserved, it must have been ’stolen’ from someone else, it must be unfair, it must mask – or indeed be prima facie evidence of – deep corruption and viciousness.

Here’s what I’m adding to that insight: Modern liberals feel pride in having such thoughts. It is the source, again, of their own (contradictory, Orwellian) feelings of moral superiority. They indulge exaggerated feelings of guilt, and exaggerated hatred of the country and institutions and people that made their very existence possilbe – as proof of their moral superiority.

I hope I’m not making it too complicated. I think the complications – that is, the crazy contradictions – are in liberalism, and that I’m only trying to trace them.

muslim homophobia is every bit as ugly and wrong as ——–(or jewish, or whatever) homophobia.

You might want to share this infobit with your buddies in ‘Queers for Palestine.’

We lost the war for the hearts and minds when freedom of speech became ‘freedom to not have to listen’

As to bob’s attempts at humour. Let me trot out a movie quote. “You make me laugh. But only ’cause I think you’re kinda pathetic.”

yes, because you’re such a gentleman here, ILC.

Just as I said: I have to wonder what it’s like to live with such negative thoughts all the time, as the lowercase-clan seems to… to virtually never have any type of comment to make except expressions of negativity and disdain, and most of those ‘clueless’ in terms of what’s actually going on.

how many non-critical things would you have to say reading daily kos?

Considering anyone who says anything critical is instantly banned from DailyKos, I probably wouldn’t last long enough to find out.

“If everyone is a gay, this world will cease to exist in 10 years,” said Ikram ul-Huq, the imam and religious director of the Muslim Community Center of Bloomington.

Guess you haven’t gotten the memo. Muslim homophobia must be tolerated in the name of multiculturalism.

how many non-critical things would you have to say reading daily kos?

I wouldn’t behave like you do here, that’s for damn sure.