GayPatriot

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Why Demonize Supporters of Traditional Marriage?

by

Watching a growing number of left-wing pundits and bloggers trip over themselves to join Perez Hilton in smearing Carrie Prejean, Miss California, for offering a position on gay marriage nearly identical to that of the Democratic President of the United States, we see yet again an interesting aspect of the gay marriage debate.

At the same time these pundits and bloggers use hateful rhetoric to attack Ms. Prejean, they and some of their allies call Prop 8, Prop H8, or Prop Hate. This from GLAAD’s web page, “GLAAD and The Los Angeles Press Club present ‘Prop 8¦ Prop H8?,’ a panel discussion about the impact Prop 8 has had on the coverage of LGBT issues.”

What does it say about them that they choose to define their opposition as haters?

Last fall, I received a good deal of e-mail from both sides of the Prop 8 campaign. In nearly every missive I received from the “Yes” said, the proponents of the measure were at pains to assure me they did not want to take away the state’s domestic partnership program. The language was straight forward. They did not attack. They merely, as did Carrie Prejean, defended the notion of marriage as an institution defined by gender difference.

By contrast, the e-mail from the “No” side was overwhelmingly hostile, attacking supporters of the proposition as mean-spirited. To be sure, not all the e-mails were hostile. Lesbian friends who had gotten married just talked about their relationships.

It struck me how in the Prejean-Hilton exchange and the ensuing hullabaloo, we saw a replaying of that very campaign.

Why must so many gay marriage advocates label their adversaries as haters? Don’t they even realize the irony that they are using hateful rhetoric to accuse others of hate?

What is behind this need to demonize?

Comments

  1. You are gay right?

    And you have not seen any demonization of gays by these type? For most of your adult life?

    What is happening is called turnabout is fair play… and do onto them as they have done onto us.

  2. Last fall, I received a good deal of e-mail from both sides of the Prop 8 campaign. In nearly every missive I received from the “Yes” said, the proponents of the measure were at pains to assure me they did not want to take away the state’s domestic partnership program. The language was straight forward. They did not attack. They merely, as did Carrie Prejean, defended the notion of marriage as an institution defined by gender difference.

    Well that’s a rather unrepresentatve sample of those who voted for prop 8. Most of them won’t read this blog.

    By contrast, the e-mail from the “No” side was overwhelmingly hostile, attacking supporters of the proposition as mean-spirited. To be sure, not all the e-mails were hostile. Lesbian friends who had gotten married just talked about their relationships.

    Considering your dhimmitude towards social conservatives, while criticising the gay community, why should you be surprised?

    Why must so many gay marriage advocates label their adversaries as haters? Don’t they even realize the irony that they are using hateful rhetoric to accuse others of hate?

    In this case their hate is justified. Something was taken away from them, and now they’re pissed. Hate is a natural feeling to have, and sometimes it is justified.

    What is behind this need to demonize?

    Talk about irony! That line is rich coming from you.

  3. We talk about tradition–why not explore homosexual tradition? I don’t understand the need to co-opt heterosexual tradition as if it’s somehow better. Homosexuals have a tradition. For instance, read about the covenant David and Jonathan established with each other. Look at Elihu and Gilamesh. Read Plato’s Symposium. Look up St. Sergius and St. Bacdhus. Read about the medieval rites in Boswell’s book. Read about German Bludbruderschaft. There are all sorts of same-sex covenants in history. I would argue same-sex covenants are better than heterosexual marriage-they are fiercely loyal and based on pure love, not societal pressure. Aristotle and Aquinas believed that male love was the love which most closely mirrored God’s love. Why don’t we work to update traditional homosexual covenants and have them legalized? I don’t want to mimic heterosexual marriage. I’m not a heterosexual. I want the kind of relationship Achilles and Patroclus had, but with legal rights.

  5. No… but if you have notice they make us win finally.

    I am willing to sit down anytime they are… and long tried to take the high ground.. no one meet me in the middle.

    I was once a student of MLK… now I see far more truth in the teachings of Malcolm X

  7. I dont see them approving bills for employment non discrimination. I dont see them rushing to co-sponsor the military readiness enhancement act, I dont see an outcry of the sensible middle to even put a civil unions law in California. The reason why many are being hostile in response is because many people dont think of GLBT people as equals.

  9. V the K… that goes right back to the Gays with Glocks thing again…

    They will only allows us full right when the fear us… not because of some abstract fear of gays… but because they fear not do so will cost them something real… like a beauty queen crown…

  10. #6: “I dont see an outcry of the sensible middle to even put a civil unions law in California.”

    Well, Matt from California (?!), that might be because there already is one.

    Are you really that uninformed?

  11. GPW, the demonization that you speak of is just part of the standard progressive playbook — don’t argue with one’s opponents on the merits, treat them as hateful or pathological instead. The standard argument is “WE are people who love — THEY are people who hate and fear. Therefore, we don’t have to argue on the merits.”

    I first noticed this in the early 90’s — some members of the Sierra Club were putting up a proposition that the club take a strong stance against illegal immigration, as it created greater strain on our natural resources. I wasn’t convinced of the idea, but I was willing to hear out the arguments. Never got a chance, as the opposition immediately started crying, “It’s the greening of hate!”, and thus no real debate on the merits took place — you were either a person who responded from love and justice or one who responded from your own pathological hatred and fear. Statistics, anecdotes, testimony — none of that was admitted into the debate. The proposition lost, of course.

    Whatever one thinks of gay marriage, it would be nice to discuss it on the merits, not by questioning the motivations of one’s opponents. In fact, it’d be nice to debate any hot-button subject on those terms. But if progressives can diagnose you with a pathology, they will, and destroy any attempt at rational argument.

  14. Here is what I am… I am a register Domestic partner… who’s partner died last December… I am also the mother of 30 month old twins… who knew no other parent besides my deceased partner… who can not get Social Security benefits because my domestic partnership was not recognized to be equal to someone else’s marriage license.

  15. Does Ms. Prejean support CA’s domestic partnership law? Has anyone bothered to ask her? Now that Ms. Prejean is a member of Maggie Gallagher’s NOM (which opposes even civil unions), & is making commercials on their behalf, are you guys still going to go to bat for her? That poor young woman is about to be used by the most anti-gay forces in America. Go ahead, worship her as a saint. It ain’t gonna last; when the worm turns & she gets more stridently anti-gay don’t come crying to me. You were warned.

  16. Jimbo – I don’t think anyone here wants to make Prejean a saint. What I object to is:

    1) having a turd like “Perez Hilton” interjecting his politics into a beauty contest (what was he even doing there?). What recommends some nelly fruit who draws genitalia on pictures of people he doesn’t like. I gave up drawing mustaches on pictures back in grade school.

    2) the ensuing frenzy designed to destroy anyone who deviates from liberal-gay orthodoxy

    3) the idea that a 20-year old beauty pageant contestant has an opinion worthy of 24/7 coverage for days on end

    4) the fact that the hysterical left will not acknowledge that their own heros, in many cases, hold the same opinion as Prejean

    What happened to just wanting world peace?

  17. On a lot of thing I am right here with you… I am conservative on most every issue… except when it comes to the welfare of my children… and MS Prejean has shown she could give a shit about them.

  19. Where is the babies’ daddy? He is the one responsible for them, not your partner (rest her soul).

    When my ex-wife and I divorced, I still had responsibility for our child, her new husband did not.

  22. Paula – I’m sorry for your loss – it has to be tough losing your spouse. I don’t know what I’d do if my better half passed away. Your situation is one that, IMO, demonstrates the need for legal recognition at the federal level. I do hope things work out for you.

    That being said – getting “rights” from those who fear you is not freedom or liberty; it’s tyranny.

    Calling people haters and bigots – without even bothering to try to understand their arguments – just makes them stop listening. When I’m called a racist, bigot, sexist, xenophobe (or whatever), I tune out immediately. I can’t begin to reason with someone who labels me as such.

    There are people who want to eliminate marriage as an institution and, to their shame, use same-sex marriage as simply a wedge in their battle against tradition and family. They are our enemies every bit as much as Focus on the Family (if not more – at lest we know FOF’s agenda).

  23. Sorry Robert… I have no more cheeks to turn… and now when I get pushed I am going to push back… and while MLK accomplished a lot… I think it was the burning cities in the 60’s that civil right struggle that really made the difference…

  25. LOVE the Glock references, Paula. That’s the way to prove that I should be on your side: threats, from someone torqued because she couldn’t get government bennies.
    Tell me: exactly which side of this arguement are you supposed to be the poster child for, again?

  26. #10: “Sean A… are you so uniformed that you don’t know that laws still does not grant the same right and responsibilities as marriage does in California?”

    Paula Brooks, I am not uninformed (or UNIformed, for that matter) about the state of the law in California. In fact, I have posted other comments on this blog TODAY specifically discussing the specifics of the California Domestic Partner Rights and Responsibilities Act of 2003. If you had bothered to read Matt from California’s comment (#6), you would have seen that he apparently believes that there is NO LAW applicable to same sex relationships whatsoever.

    So now that I’ve answered your question, I have one for you. Have you and Patty Hearst kept in touch over the years? Or, is it just too awkward, considering all the kidnapping, bank robbery, and shoot-out baggage between you?

  27. What is behind this need to demonize? [certain gay marriage opponents]

    Unwillingness to criticize Obama.

    As you point out, Obama and Carrie Prejean have essentially the same position on gay marriage. But he is vastly more important. For whatever reason, some gays and lesbians feel that they don’t dare criticize him, while Prejean makes a safe and easy target. So they vent all their bile and venom on the distant proxy (Prejean). I think it’s called “displacement”.

    Same with the Mormons. As many have pointed out, it was actually Obama supporters (black voters) that put Prop 8 over the top in CA. But the Mormons are a safe, easy target. They are a minority and a peaceful, responsible one at that. History shows how hateful people will scapegoat and demonize a peaceful, responsible (but unpopular) minority, because they make such safe, easy targets.

    Another example: Lefties and Bush. Scapegoating Bush is/was so much safer and easier than, say, stepping up to the plate (e.g., volunteering for the military) to do something about the world’s real evil dictators and terrorists like Saddam and bin Ladin. So, the cowardly script goes, simply demonize Bush while excusing them.

  29. Sean A… you split hairs… you knew exactly the point he was making as well a I did… you just did not like the point he was making… so you attacked his delivery…

    You need to get out there in the real world boyo…

  30. Paula Brooks, I live in CA – do you? CA civil unions are virtually identical to marriage, as far as the State of CA is concerned. (Federal is, of course, another matter.) Also, CA had gay marriage last summer – one of my best friends got married. I’m sorry about your partner, but if you didn’t take advantage of either CA civil unions or CA gay marriage before December 2008: Your fault.

    I am conservative on most every issue

    Not impossible, but I’ll believe it when I see evidence of it. This:

    I was once a student of MLK… now I see far more truth in the teachings of Malcolm X… I am glad [Perez Hilton] was there to ask the question.

    sounds far more plausible.

  31. why demonize? Two words: discrimination and bigotry. There is no rational reason to allow discrimination nor bigotry. Plain and simple. Enough said.

  32. Paula:

    Your story is certainly moving and anyone can see how someone in your circumstances might succumb to rage.

    My purpose is not to twist the knife – please believe me – but since you self-reference conservative, I have to ask: would you advise young lesbian couples to take the route your partner did? Specifically, undergoing IVF without any family support system.

    Again, I have no doubt that your partner’s children are a precious gift – all children are. As their sole caregiver now, I’m curious why you have made Soc Sec payments such a big part of your focus. A few hundred dollars per year is never a substitute for real family. Your parents. Your partner’s parents. Brothers and sisters. Are you really bereft of any support with the kids?

    I hear your story and I wonder: looking over your decisions, would you change anything, if you had to do it all over again?

    Best wishes,
    -MFS

  33. No it is a DC registered partnership and it is very handy in DC where I live… but has no status in Ca or any place outside DC and is also not so good for federal benefits for my children…

    I really could give a shit what we call the legal status… We just need equal recognition of that status everywhere and this is what NOM does not want to us have … by any name.

  34. #29: “Sean A… you split hairs… you knew exactly the point he was making as well a I did… you just did not like the point he was making… so you attacked his delivery…”

    Bullshit, Paula Brooks. You didn’t like the point I was making–that gays routinely bitch about how oppressed and victimized they are without bothering to educate themselves concerning the most basic, rudimentary facts about their own status under the law. Matt (from California, no less) wrote this:

    “I dont see an outcry of the sensible middle to even put a civil unions law in California.”

    There is no other logical way to interpret those words, in that context, as anything other than Matt from California being woefully ignorant of the law (while simultaneously bitching about the state of the law). If I’m wrong, I assume Matt can clear it up himself.

  35. I work… and I own a business… I am all about doing what you have to do…. but why are my children different? Because other are bigot… thats why

    And no I would not do a thing different…

  36. So all that’s necessary for me to behave as Paula does- threats of political violence, desire to abuse institutions to intimidate dissidents, and all- is for me to feel that I’ve been treated unfairly?

    Someone comes onto a pro-gay-marriage website, posts threats of violence, claims to be a single mother of preschool children already in the DSS database, and then says she believes in “by any means necessary”…

    What would Peretz Hilton do, Paula? Would you still approve of using institutions to silence dissent if “it happens to you”, as you said above?

  37. DaveP.. you do what ever you want to do… as will I

    but till you walk a mile in my shoes… then I propose you really have no idea what you are talking about… but you talking about it, without really knowing what you are talking about … makes you pretty dangerous in your own right.

  38. Paula:

    You miss my point. Your children are different because death has rendered you a single mother. That’s rough, no matter how you slice it.

    But, I fail to see how that’s Maggie Gallagher’s fault. Arnold Schwarzenegger’s. Barack Obama’s. The Dali Lama’s. Or anyone else’s, really.

    My neighbor and dear friend discovered that she was pregnant last year. The father is a heroin-addicted bum, who has moved on to his next conquest. She kept the child, a beautiful little girl, and for that we’re all grateful. I was able to set her up with the local church and they arranged a cheap apartment, money for fuel oil and sitter’s while she works. Not optimal, but that baby is surrounded by love and community.

    I’m wondering if she chose to reject any help from family, reject all the help from her church and instead threaten bodily harm on those “bigots” would I have any respect for her at all?

    Would you, Paula?

    Best wishes,
    -MFS

  39. You have no idea where my shoes have walked, Paula, because I don’t claim special ethics and demand special treatment because I’ve been there.

    Just answer the question: Is it acceptable for others to use hiltonesque methods against you, causing you tremendous personal grief, because they disagree with you and wish to silence you?

    Is it sauce for the goose, Paula?

  40. -MFS nobody has threatened to bodily harm anyone… I am expressing I believe it is my right to keep and bear arms… to protect my family and myself and think that if more gay thought that… there would be no need for hate crime laws…

    and I have said that you are free to say what ever you like… but don’t be surprised when it is not well received…

    I am in here bucking the notion that Prejean should not be held accountable for a bigoted statement… that apparently you do not think was bigoted…

    the attacks I have gotten here show… you can say what you want… be be ready for someone to disagree… and in Sean A case be belittled for it.

    You want to ignore the need is out there and your whole story about your neighbor… however sad… was just to change the subject that it is an injustice that a marriage license get children these benefit and a domestic partnership will not…

  43. I bring this up and bring this up–the gay left thinks that the only way to equality is to mimic and co-opt heterosexual marriage. Why isn’t the gay left willing to build on homosexual tradition? What is so frightening about the homosexuals that came before us and their way of covenanting? The gay left is ashamed of previous generations of homosexuals and that is simply obscene.

  44. Since You a have been doing it Dave P… I guess you are answering your own question and it seems to me that you think that if some take a position you don’t like … everything is fair game…

  45. You need to get out there in the real world boyo…

    As I read “Paula’s” unfolding narrative, it appears that she lives in a world very much of her own making and it is backfiring on her.

    Pity parties are not helpful and screaming “victim” at the bureaucracy is not much solace.

    But more than that is the undertone of seething that Paula is owed something by society for her misfortune. Just what in this narrative is the fault of society?

    There is a huge difference between being discriminated against and finding discrimination wherever you look. At this point in the Paula saga, I am inclined to believe that she has led a life filled with grievances and recrimination.

  47. If that’s the case, paula, why are you angry at the Traditionists for doing whatever it is to you that you’re upset about?

    It’s okay by your ethics, you’d do the same thing in their shoes, but you’re miffed that it’s happening to YOU, specifically?

  48. heliotrope… same answer for you too… what i did was try to build a life with the person I loved…

    and again what it sounds like to me you are someone who has not been there and is making uneducated statements… because you dont like what i am saying

  51. 31.why demonize? Two words: discrimination and bigotry. There is no rational reason to allow discrimination nor bigotry. Plain and simple. Enough said.

    Your bigotry and discrimination aren’t the subject here, bnl.

    Paula, I’m sorry you have such pain and anger. Though I wonder how you can raise children in an atmosphere of such hatred and bitterness.

    Your wishing pain and violence on others is a shame, and it just begets more of the same. Tell me, are you honestly advocating that people who disagree with you should be allowed to be violent? OR is ‘by any means’ only fun rhetoric when you’re the one with the gun?

    You’re new here, so I’m inclined to cut some slack.

  54. Paula, please…

    First, you’ve walked back your Malcolm X agitprop, which I guess we can be thankful for.

    Then, you dismiss the travails of my friend and by extension other singles mothers who face the exact same challenges you do.

    I don’t see – please, help me – how the fact that you are lesbian changes the dynamics in the slightest. DOMA repeal won’t bring back your partner. Putting Miss-USA, or whatever she is, on a cross will not watch your children for you.

    Look, I was approached by a lesbian friend about fifteen years ago to help her conceive. After, a week of serious soul searching, I turned her down. It was a terrible choice to make and one that I’ve reflected on every time I see a toddler somewhere.

    In retrospect, I feel that it was the right decision. My lesbian friend and her partner got heavily involved with drugs, and split up and both moved away. I would have probably been in the same straights you are in now.

    Perhaps, this is all an attempt on my part to justify that old call. But, hear a lot of misplaced anger from you and not a great deal of self-reflection.

    Looks at all the posts you’ve made here today. Why do you care what a beauty contestant thinks about anything?

    Best wishes,
    -MFS

  55. Which part of your post #1, Paula? The one where you question ‘s sexuality because of his political opinions?

    Or the part where you totally sacrifice any claim to the moral or ethical high ground by announcing your lack of ethics?

    So your unethical attack on me is okay, because of “turnaround”…

    But no-one else should conduct unethical attacks against you.

    Have you checked to see if those who’ve aggrieved you have pity stories of their own, Paula? Maybe THEY’ve just been using your ethics as outlined in post #1 the way YOU’ve been… in which case you should have no problem, because they have a grievance, right?

  60. Where do you get that, Paula? I said YOUR attack was unethical… I said nothing about mine.

    But if I was a believer in Malcom X too– if I agreed with you, in short– I’d believe that NO attack against you would be unethical. “By any means necessary”, right? And I’d believe that whatever trauma in my life that I’m nursing a grudge over woiuld give me total justification.

    However, even if I HAD committed an unethical attack against you (and admitted it!), by your own logic and ethics you’d have no room or right to complain…

  63. GayPatriot… Sorry to come in here raising hell…. I’ve been a long time reader on the feed and for some reason this post caught my attention…

    If I have disrespected your house… please accept my apologies…

  67. Paula, your ability for unreflective ironic comments leaves me stunned.

    I’m stuck as to which one I should have bronzed for my mantlepiece: the one about Glocks, the one where you refer to me as “uneducated”, or your number 64, above.

  69. Gay patriot… ok back to my original answer… this is all happening because gays have been push quite long enough… and what we are seeing is a reaction to that anger.

    I wish it were otherwise… but this is what will happen when you tell people they are not as good as you are long enough.

  71. I said you are uneducated in my situation because you have not been here… and as such you really don’t know how you would really react…. and have no business even thinking you do.

    Sounds like a plaque for the wall: Official Definition of Moral Relativity.

    Apparently, society should write Paula a blank check and then butt out. Certainly gay marriage will clear her life right up.

  72. “Sorry Robert… I have no more cheeks to turn… and now when I get pushed I am going to push back… and while MLK accomplished a lot… I think it was the burning cities in the 60’s that civil right struggle that really made the difference…”

    Precisely how many decades do you want to set back your movement? If “turnabout is fair play” who do you think will end up on the losing end? Tolerance (which is not approval) has grown by leaps and bounds over the last several decades. And your response is to kick the tolerators in the nuts?

  73. And I will return to my original point: Those who advocate hatred and violence and vacant ethics, who demonize their enemies on this or any other subject, do so despite the fact that they object to the same methods being used against them. They usually have some self-serving justification they use as an excuse, but really, any excuse would serve.

  74. but till you walk a mile in my shoes… then I propose you really have no idea what you are talking about… but you talking about it, without really knowing what you are talking about … makes you pretty dangerous in your own right.

    Wait, what?

    “And if I could only put myself in your shoes, I’d walk right back to me.” – Clint Black

  75. Buckeye whatever sez…

    why demonize? Two words: discrimination and bigotry. There is no rational reason to allow discrimination nor bigotry. Plain and simple. Enough said.

    Unless, of course, you’re a liberal and then discrimination and bigotry is considered “progressive” and “compassionate”.

  77. heliotrope- not clear my life right up… the homophobes have made it too late for us… but it will keep others from seeing what I have seen… and am seeing.

    As for setting our moment back,,,you are so wrong… it is this new militancy that has been making it go where it is going now… Prop 8 did that for us… it woke us up and got us into the street… in strength.

    Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you’re a man (or a woman), you take it.
    Malcolm X, Malcolm X Speaks, 1965

    I am not kicking the tolerators in the nuts… unless you think NOM and MS Prejean are tolerators

  78. They will only allows us full right when the fear us… not because of some abstract fear of gays… but because they fear not do so will cost them something real…
    I think it was the burning cities in the 60’s that civil right struggle that really made the difference…
    … love to see it happen to you…

    Nope, no violence here. And Bill Ayers was just a concerned citizen.

    Dan, Bruce, my two c-bills is the answer is similar to the ‘why target the Mormons’ mentioned above. It’s easier to demonize the other rather than disagree with them. I mean, I’ve said I’m for ‘Fred’ and not ‘Gay Marriage’. Ashpenaz is for a new tradition, other regular posters are for full gay marriage. The thing is, we see the common grounds in our ways and want to come to an accomidation that, while it won’t please everyone, will be the least disruptive for all involved. That takes efforts, willingness to question our own beliefs and how the government should be involved in extending privledges w.o disrupting rights.

    It also means we have to face a scary truth. We might be wrong. About ourselves, about our foes. It is easier to demonize the other rather than look at ourselves.

    It’s also easier to pick targets that don’t fight back. We on the right don’t look to burning cities as a way to advance our agenda. We don’t wish ill (well most of us don’t) wish ill on the opposition because we disagree with them.

    Face it, for all of the histronics of the left, they know they live in the most free country in the world. They know that Perez Hilton can shoot his mouth off withoug worrying about being hung in the streets. They know they can spout off their 9/11 conspiracy theories w.o black helicopters hunting them down. They know they can compare President Bush to Hitler, because he’s not Hitler, and he won’t have the LGC hunt them down and take them to camps in the night.

    So I think it comes down to cowardice. Fear to face the possibility that they’re wrong, and fear to find a target that won’t fight back.

  79. You’re not kicking them in the nuts, Paula… you’re THREATENING them. After announcing you’re armed, and that you support “militancy”.

    You keep that right on up.

  80. a target that won’t fight back.,,, that is kind of what has everyone amazed now isn’t?

    Back in the day you could pick on the gays… and they just went away, hid in the closet and cried….

    Now some of us fight back

  81. Paula: How many homophobes are out there pushing you down? I would really, really be interested to know the size of the forces of evil aligned against you. After all, unless you are just going to spray the bystanders with your Uzi, you need to have specific targets in carrying out your Malcolm X solution.

  82. I am announcing I am armed to let them know,,, not a very smart idea if you think you’d like to try to kick this queer girls ass…

    And Militancy takes many different forms… you don’t have to throw bombs to practice militancy.

  84. “What is behind this need to demonize?”

    its funny you say that, but in other posts you demonize Obama through extreme exaggeration (for example his “response” to tea parties)

    I have to ask you what is behind your need to demonize?

    Perhaps you ought to look in the mirror first before you try to paint with wide generalizations

  87. helio – You can read the post titled “GOP Needs to Tap Into Energy of Tea Parties” where he talks about hoping to generate anger to rally folks for his cause then then check a few threads down for GPW’s extreme exaggeration of Obama’s response to tea parties and his attempt to use anger and victimization in the desperate hope that it makes his party popular again.

  89. it is this new militancy that has been making it go where it is going now…

    “New militancy” as opposed to… what?

    I am announcing I am armed to let them know,,, not a very smart idea if you think you’d like to try to kick this queer girls ass…

    Do “queer girls” regularly get their asses kicked?

    You’ll pardon me, of course, if I don’t find any desire to accept your misery, hatred and bigotry. Oh, and Malcom X was a racist idiot. ‘twould be pathetic to follow that POS.

    [Comment edited due to violation of community terms of conduct].

  90. Oh but of course there is only one valid argument here… and that would be necessity be yours… ThatGayConservative…

    what we queer girl seem to have a problem with is those pesky “corrective” rapists…

    and like I’ve previously… long time reader… and I can imagine you would have no desire to accept my misery, hatred and bigotry… because there was plenty of that before here I came to comment and you appear to be pretty well stocked up on those commodities before I came along…

  91. I have enjoyed the large amount of dialogue to this post. Paula takes me back to my Freshman year at the University of California, San Diego.

  92. Well I am the straight girl. I have 3 sons. I am married. Personally, Paula I think that you have been irresponsible by using IVF procedures to bear children.

    Personally I have no animosity towards men and women who are homosexual in their tendencies. What I do not appreciate Paula is the way that you are advocating violence towards others. The Malcolm X violence that you seem to advocate goes very much against the grain.

    If there really are children involved, and there is a problem in raising them, then they should be given up for adoption. Now do not start histrionics on me, because I have a sister who had a child out of wedlock. You do not know the whole of my late sister’s circumstances but she was left as a single mother and her youngest daughter was only 14 when she passed away as a result of undiagnosed bone cancer. I could tell you a thing or two about how badly she was treated.

    The world does not owe you or your children a living and you are not a victim of circumstance. People make themselves into being victims and yes sometimes circumstances do make people into victims. It is how you get over those situations that matters. Yes, I have been there and done that…… and I do not have to tell what I suffered when I was growing up. What I will tell you though, is that I do not advocate violence towards others, and you Paula, by espousing Malcolm X are indeed advocating violence towards others.

    At the same time you have the same twisted ideas that I read from Levi and Gillie in particular on this site. Yes, I said twisted ideas because what they espouse is totally twisted.

    I am an outsider, an observer, and from what I read about Miss California all she did to warrant the most disgusting attack upon her person in the form of vilification was to state her own personal belief about marriage being between a man and a woman. This is the same belief that is held by Obummer. The hypocrisy of the situation is that the left liberals are screaming at Miss Perjean for stating her own beliefs. At no time during the pageant did she try to thrust her beliefs on others, and for the record she did not say anything that was hateful. Instead, a rather foul-mouthed man by the name of Perez Hilton said some really disgusting things about this young woman. It was really foul language that was used. Yet, not one member of the left has castigated this foul-mouthed individual.

    And along comes someone who says her name is Paula Brooks, who is advocating violence towards people who happen to hold a differing opinion to her own, because she thinks that the world owes her a living…. this is how I am reading the conversation here.

    No, Paula, the government does not owe you or those children a living. The government does not owe you benefits for those children, especially if you are working and earning enough to pay for their living expenses. It is this welfare mentality that is bankrupting the USA, Australia, Great Britain and other nations.

    If you cannot afford to look after the children, then give them up for adoption.

  93. Why must so many gay marriage advocates label their adversaries as haters?
    …What is behind this need to demonize?

    Dan,
    Have you not read Rules for Radicals? They do it on purpose. It’s one of the left’s many bullying tactics.

  94. I bring this up and bring this up–the gay left thinks that the only way to equality is to mimic and co-opt heterosexual marriage. Why isn’t the gay left willing to build on homosexual tradition? What is so frightening about the homosexuals that came before us and their way of covenanting? The gay left is ashamed of previous generations of homosexuals and that is simply obscene.

    Why just the gay left, Ashpenaz? There are plenty of gay conservatives who want the type of marriage that opposite sex couples have. What’s wrong with that?

    I can’t speak for others, but I’m not ashamed about what homosexuals had to do in the past. Most people did the best they could with a bad situation. Further, when you bring up examples of “couples” in the past, we really do not know the nature of their relationship, do we?

    What most people don’t want is a life and relationship built on silly euphemisms, but one in which they can be open and proud about, just like any opposite sex couple. And no, this does not have to be in your face, rainbow flag waving, etc.

    As for the point of the post… Why must so many gay marriage advocates label their adversaries as haters? Don’t they even realize the irony that they are using hateful rhetoric to accuse others of hate?

    I don’t know. Actually, I don’t know if the “hate” is much different than any other contentious issue. But there is hate on both sides of this issue. What about the many who oppose same sex marriage and civil unions simply because they hate gay people? Or just as bad, they “love the sinner, but hate the sin.” Right or wrong, people too often respond in kind.

    On the other hand, imagine if opposite sex marriage was eliminated, and only same sex marriage was allowed. How do you think straight persons would respond to that? How do you think they would respond to hearing, “You have the same rights as everyone, you can marry someone of the same sex,” or having their relationships compared to incest, bestiality, polygamy, and pedophilia? Do you honestly think that all straight persons would say, “Gee, that’s too bad for us, but we should engage our opponents and try to have them understand our point of view, and let them gradually give our privileges back, and only if we’re all good boys and girls.”

    Yes, the above is hypothetical and only to illustrate how hate can happen. In any case, I agree it doesn’t help our cause when Hilton behaved in the manner he did.

  95. I really feel sorry for Paula’s children, they are going to be raised to hate. If they are straight and take the view that same sex is wrong, they’ll be hated by their own mom. Where is Dad when you need him?

  96. Thestraightaussie, well put.
    Paula, I am not against you having children, but I do have one question, when you or your partner convinced, did you get life insurance? That would have been much more responsible and useful than waiting for a pittance from social security.

    Also, you and other ugly lefties attacks on Prejean remind me of Frankenstein. That was the name of the creator, the creature was never named. But upon being abandoned and neglected, he became the monster.
    Interesting thing is that today Frankenstein refers to the monster itself.
    The same will happen to your campaign against Prejean. You’re ugly antics have created a useful tool for the anti gay marriage crowd – but in the end it will come back to bite you. It is already, I’m seeing good honorable people who used to support gay marriage now have doubts because of your boorish ugly attack methods.

  98. I really feel sorry for Paula’s children, they are going to be raised to hate. If they are straight and take the view that same sex is wrong, they’ll be hated by their own mom.

    All too often today, it’s the other way around. Parents more often hate (or at least act like it) their gay children.

    Where is Dad when you need him?

    My understanding there was a second parent, and she passed away. So it’s, unfortunately, similar to a situation in an opposite sex couple where the father passes away, or takes off and takes limited or no responsibility for the children.

  99. Pat, children are not pets to be had because you can and that goes for heterosexuals as well. That said, abortion is still murder, legal or not, it is cold blooded calculated murder.

    Those who play the victim card embellish, stretch the blanket, exaggerate or out right lie about their situation to garner sympathy. As far as Paula goes, I only believe half of what she’s said on face value and if verified she may be telling a 20% of story accurately.

    Paula, if I am wrong, please forgive me for doubting, as I do forgive you if I am right.

  100. Leah, thanks for the support.

    Pat, you raised excellent points as well. I will continue to talk as the straight person here because I believe that it helps dialogue between each side.

    There is one point you raised and that is about pedophelia. The only way that you will change people’s mind on the subject is for other gays to speak up against it. By doing that you will win over straight people.

    I see it as the equivalent of incest – the type between a father and daughter, but even this can be father/son, which is really deplorable in my mind. It has happened within my family and yes incest is really quite common. It is a very bad thing, and it should be spoken about and treated the same as pedophilia. It is the most shameful thing about heterosexuals. Several cases have recently come to light where fathers have attacked their daughters and the daughters have had babies. It is not just a father/daughter thing either, it can be a sibling thing as well.

    In other words both sides have to deal with these shameful practices. Pedophilia is not confined to homosexual activity. It can be any sexual contact between an adult and a child under a certain age. The adult can be male or female and the child can be either same sex or opposite sex.

    We all need to work to stamp it out, and by that I mean that the gay community needs to speak up against it, just like the heterosexual community needs to speak up against it and against incest.

    There has been personal experiences within my family relating to incest. So I am speaking from experience.

    If we are mature in how we handle these things, I do believe that we can come to some sort of compromise. I will not change my own mind about marriage, but I do believe that there can be a compromise for the gay community in the form of a civil contract that has the same impact as getting a marriage license. As it stands there are plenty of straight people who make a mockery out of marriage with their constant divorces and marriages.

  103. Pat, children are not pets to be had because you can and that goes for heterosexuals as well. That said, abortion is still murder, legal or not, it is cold blooded calculated murder.

    I agree with your first statement. Maybe I missed something, but I’m not sure what abortion had to do with this discussion.

    Those who play the victim card embellish, stretch the blanket, exaggerate or out right lie about their situation to garner sympathy. As far as Paula goes, I only believe half of what she’s said on face value and if verified she may be telling a 20% of story accurately.

    I personally try my best to take one’s word here at face value, since that’s pretty much all you have on the Internet. Besides, some people are very good at seeming authentic, while lying through their teeth. So, despite people’s claims of expertise to the contrary, it’s impossible to know for sure the truth of anyone here.

    Anyway, what I’m reading is that despite both of you undergoing unfortunate circumstances, Paula and you want what’s best for your own children. I’m guessing that if, say, you believe a custodial judgment was unfavorable to you, and more importantly, was not optimal for your children, you would fight for it, instead of saying that you shouldn’t have had children.

  104. Straight Aussie, I’m sorry about to hear about your personal situation. I’m not sure if pedophilia is more of a problem with homosexuals as incest is more of a problem with heterosexuals. In any case, both are a problem for any community, and it should be spoken out against. I honestly don’t think that gay persons speak out against pedophilia (or incest) any more or less than straight persons.

    I will not change my own mind about marriage, but I do believe that there can be a compromise for the gay community in the form of a civil contract that has the same impact as getting a marriage license.

    I appreciate the concession regarding civil unions. As for marriage, keep in mind that it has changed a lot in the past few thousand years, and I imagine will continue to change. Hopefully for the better, and for the better of all, as it has most of the time in the past.

  105. First we got way off topic with Paula’s personal situation in this thread.

    However responding to your remarks, according to Paula she has custody, that’s not the issue and I am not playing victim here. I never said she should have never had children, however children should be planned for and wanted and when surprized with pregnancy don’t murder the baby, adjust your plans. That is why I brought up cold blooded murder (aka abortion).

    Back on topic, Paula insinuated that hatred by gays for Prejean’s position and personal attacks are justified and she is advocating violence against other innocent people. She uses her personal situation to justify the hate and violence and that is just sad, especially for her babies.

    Hilton, Olberman and leftwing bloggers are haters of the stance Miss Ca took and are attacking her personally for it. Undeniable fact!

  106. Why “demonize” Anita Bryant? Gay patriots, maybe it’s time to rehabilitate the orange juice queen while you’re at it. And Roy Cohn, too!

  107. I will not change my own mind about marriage, but I do believe that there can be a compromise for the gay community in the form of a civil contract that has the same impact as getting a marriage license.

    That’s exactly the state of the law in Washington State, or will be when the governor signs the legislation. But the same Christian nutcases that “gay patriots” pimp for have announced their intention to gather signatures to put an anti-gay referendum on the ballot to overturn it. I expect “gay patriots” here to be at the forefront of the repeal movement. It’s what the self-hating queers do.

  108. LOL….perhaps you don’t realize it, Magic Dog, but I am an American and supporter of the constitution first, so I applaud people exercising their civic right and voting.

    You, on the other hand, are a gay-sex liberal, so you support stripping people of their right to vote and overturning the constitution. That shows what pathetic fascists you and your Obama Party are.