Back during the fall campaign, I was impressed with Joe the Plumber for better criticizing then-candidate Barack Obama’s tax plan than did the Republican Presidential nominee. He explained in simple terms how higher taxes on the “wealthy” discouraged others from working hard as they aspired one day to be so rich.
But, just because you can understand the perils of high taxation doesn’t equip you to discuss all issues. In a strange response to a question by a reporter from Christianity Today on same-sex marriage, the erstwhile campaign celebrity rambled from favoring a state-by-state approach to same-sex marriage to calling gay marriage wrong, or was he calling homosexuality wrong or was he calling expression of one’s sexuality wrong?
[QUESTION]: In the last month, same-sex marriage has become legal in Iowa and Vermont. What do you think about same-sex marriage at a state level?
[JOE] At a state level, it’s up to them. I don’t want it to be a federal thing. I personally still think it’s wrong. People don’t understand the dictionary’s called queer. Queer means strange and unusual. It’s not like a slur, like you would call a white person a honky or something like that. You know, God is pretty explicit in what we’re supposed to do–what man and woman are for. Now, at the same time, we’re supposed to love everybody and accept people, and preach against the sins. I’ve had some friends that are actually homosexual. And, I mean, they know where I stand, and they know that I wouldn’t have them anywhere near my children. But at the same time, they’re people, and they’re going to do their thing.
I mean, it’s just not clear what he believes to be wrong, just that it’s something involving homosexuality. And that he doesn’t want those homosexuals near his kids (without explaining what harm they could do). Let me know if you can decipher it. Maybe he was just trying to say something original and regain the favor he once had on the right.
I don’t think it’ll work.
Seems like someone is trying to prolong his fifteen minutes.
UPDATE (JohnAGJ): Yes, he did.
Take one measure of unintegrated values; add a dollop of “not familiar with formal reasoning” extract, and a pinch unthinking ignorance, and stir.
Simmer at medium heat until congealed or severely embarrassed. Dump into the garbage and hope like Hell that no one noticed the mess.
Honestly? I think he’s never been challenged on his ideas with respect to gay Americans, so he’s never really had to think through the implications of some of his unquestioned beliefs, hence the “unintegrated values” crack above.
Joe the Plumber was essentially a spokesperson regarding taxes, and about support for those who are starting up their own business. We never knew about his other positions, until now that is. And it ain’t all pretty, apparently. But that’s okay. I’m not sure he’s safe around children either. But he is a person, and he is going to do his own thing. 🙂
really? you can’t decipher that?
It’s a rambling, incoherent mess, but this guy has never claimed to be a scholar or an expert. He’s a blue-collar joe who doesn’t want his hard work confiscated by a socialist bureaucracy.
As far as the crack about leaving his kids in the presence of homosexuals? I have two daughters and I worry a lot about sexual predators of any stripe. Obviously a gay male would be no threat to my family in that regard, and we never really hear anything about “predatory” lesbians! I worry about any heterosexual male in close quarters with them, no matter who they are. The stats clearly demonstrate that family members and family friends are the most likely molesters, so I take nothing for granted.
I think Joe suffers from confusion regarding the stereotypical pedophile, who is a male predator of young boys, and mixing that up with homosexuals in general.
If Joe truly has gay friends, they must be a long-suffering, patient lot. Probably a lot of eye-rolling and lip-biting..
“Seems like someone is trying to prolong his fifteen minutes.”
This is the only salient point to be taken from the whole JTP fiasco at this point. At this point its not a matter of what he says or where he goes, but that Republicans should’ve severed their relationship with this person right after he had his infamous run in with then-candidate Obama.
That the right continued and INTENTIONALLY made him some sort of spokesperson for conservatism boggles the mind. This is like when you have a bad case of the flu and you need to get that last dry heave before you actually start to feel better. Republicans should cough it up soon.
Maybe I’m unusual, but I can’t regard as a friend someone who won’t let me near his kids because I’m gay.
His messy string of words, I think, shows why politicians are basically self-selected, as opposed to Joe, whom fate chose for the political world. To be sure, Joe hasn’t been shy about embracing opportunities to share his opinions, but unlike most people who actually run for office, I imagine he would not be unhappy to have stayed an unknown. As for actual politicians, they tend to have strong ability to anticipate questions and provide at least semi-coherent responses (albeit often canned and disingenuous). Opinions that are likely to resonate with most of that politician’s electorate may be expressed with passion. Opinions that are likely at odds with the electorate may be expressed with nuance, with the person often attempting to answer a slightly different question than the one that was asked. Either way, the skilled politician exploits the favorable questions and carefully sidesteps the dangerous questions.
Of course, even the most skilled and powerful politicians flub questions from time to time. Even so, I imagine most of us would not relish a constant barrage of questions and would in any case probably stumble quite often. In the case of a non-politician like Joe, I’m not at all surprised that he would totally whiff on a question like this. While I don’t agree with what he’s saying, the incoherence of his response makes it hard to know what he really believes.
Anyway, Joe’s response makes Carrie Prejean’s response to her question look all the more eloquent. Her response was succinct, apparently heartfelt, and didn’t contradict itself.
As with any live version of “Mr. Smith Goes to Washington”, the idea of “Joe The Plumber” was much more appealing than the man. If I give him a generous benefit of the doubt, I can read it without seeing a slur. But, I don’t really know him or what he really believes, so I have no justifiable reason for giving any benefit of the doubt; and he surely will not get that elsewhere. Not surprisingly, he has no sense, let alone abilities, in how to manage the perception of others. His time in the dimming spotlight has ended. Get the dancing bear on stage and queue the talking dog …
JUST jumped the shark? You’ve given him way too much benefit of not a great deal of doubt there. he was strapping jetskis on from the minute he let himself become a shill for the mccain campaign.
Joe: “And, I mean, they know where I stand, and they know that I wouldn’t have them anywhere near my children. But at the same time, they’re people, and they’re going to do their thing.”
Strange that. We helped bring Joe to the Michigan-Lansing Tea Party last month (we thought the organizers were right that he’d attract some folks & media to the event). M-M partner and family met him and we shared some laughs about kids being a parent’s real full-time job. He didn’t seem worried about the influence of gays as parents… he didn’t seem worried that gay parents might all be closeted pedophiles… he didn’t seem concerned about the other kids who were gathered around all of us that afternoon being “indoctrinated” into the seedy underbelly of the homosexual lifestyle right there in the sunshine and crisp outdoor air.
Oh, and it didn’t stop him from asking for a future campaign contribution for his likely Congressional bid… like Palin, the guy needs some seasoning and serious tempering and ed’ja’kating… he doesn’t even get to 15 minutes at this point.
Hmmm. Pick any prominent Democrat (e.g., Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Joe Biden) at random and then compare Joe’s comments with the verbal gaffes, evasions, contortions, and outright lies stated by said Democrat through the years.
If you engage in this exercise, I guarantee that Joe the Plumber will come out looking like a blue-collar Churchill.
Darn–and he’s so attractive! 🙁
oh, how can one be surprised? It’s the de facto opinion of the GOP afterall…
At least Joe wasn’t stupid enough to call Cinco de Mayo “Cinco de Cuatro” (Five of Four).
I’d rather have Joe the Plumber in a position of authority than Joe Biden.
Regards,
Peter H.
#10 – Speaking of stupid…
Regards,
Peter H.
Heh. Guess the honeymoon is finally over. What did you guys honestly expect he would say about the subject? Like I’ve stated in the previous thread, socons fear ‘the gays’ of being accepted in public society.
#13 – “socons fear ‘the gays’ of being accepted in public society.”
Proof please?
Regards,
Peter H.
Aw, c’mon Joe. Stick to taxes & don’t wing it on gay issues.
ruleoflaw said: “I think Joe suffers from confusion regarding the stereotypical pedophile, who is a male predator of young boys, and mixing that up with homosexuals in general.”
Actually, the average pedophile is a straight white male who molests a female relative or aquaintance.
Hopefully, when you used the word “stereotypical” you realized that this stereotype is totally bogus when used in relation to gay males.
#1 – You’re on to something when you say that Joe has never been challenged on his ideas about gay people in America. His comments are likely his honest feelings, and he probably doesn’t spend a great deal of time thinking about the politics of homosexuality. It’s something gay advocates never seem to realize – most straight people just don’t spend that much time worrying about gay rights.
Joe’s comments provide some insight into what many Americans think about gays. He may be unpolished but he wasn’t vulgar or degrading. I believe he and others like him are exactly who gay marriage advocates need to engage if they want to transform public attitudes on the subject. My guess is that Joe would be comfortable talking with most any of the regular posters here, but what he gets in the media is Perez Hilton attacking Miss California.
#10 (BNL), that’s the sort of idiotic response that prevents true dialogue; it reminds me of why Bruce and Dan are much better positioned to increase acceptance of the GLBT community than the more recognized leaders of the GLBT movement (e.g., HRC). When you assume that everyone on the other side has the same position, you never get anywhere. Most conservatives (social conservatives, even) have opinions and positions on GLBT issues that are quite complicated and unsettled; assuming they all believe that gay people are a danger to their children is ignorant, offensive, and intellectually lazy.
Pats the lefty trolls on the head. Yes I think he officially jumped the shark. This is a bridge too far to me.
However, having said that, I must point out this is really a subset of a prejudice building up against men in general. Male teachers face a lot of this too, simply because any man around children is suspect of being a child molester until proven otherwise. I would not expect anyone to say that they wouldn’t want any men around their child, but I would be that quite a few parents would be very very leery of leaving any man, even one they know quite well, alone with their child for any length of time.
By the way for our lefty trolls convinced that all Republicans think like Joe and secretly hate teh gayz, here is an excerpt from an article about Bush and Gays:
“Bush has had several gay friends in the past, and, according to them, has always been civil and open and accepting. In the 2000 election cycle a former aide, Doug Wead, secretly taped chats with Bush. On one occasion Bush was told he had to criticize gays as a way to curry favour with evangelicals. He retorted: “I’m not going to kick gays, because I’m a sinner. How can I differentiate sin?†”
From my experience this is what you can expect from the majority of Republicans. They think being gay is a sin. They also think everyone is a sinner, so its not really their place to judge, that’s God’s job yadda yadda. In my experience, Straight Republicans are far more tolerant of Gay Republicans than Gay Liberals are.
What is there to decipher? He’s an intolerant, homophic hate-monger. The more he talks the more ridiculous he sounds, like Sarah Palin.
#24 – “The more he talks the more ridiculous he sounds, like Sarah Palin.”
So why is your side trying to destroy both of them and Carrie Prejean in the process? Or are you just afraid of something that will change your victimhood idea of acceptance?
Regards,
Peter H.
I’ve never understood the appeal of JTP beyond his single Obama soundbite. It’s sideshows like this (and Miss Cali, and that 14 year old on FOX, and rapping GOP grannies or whatever is coming next week) that are hurting conservatism more than anything. It’s little more than an admission to the voting population that the GOP is leaderless and adrift, even apart from being a circus of unserious oddities.
And apart from the tragic savaging of Sarah Palin by the leftist media, most of these albatrosses are Republicans’ own fault for hoisting up trite gimmicks instead of serious policy.
Joe the Plumber was used. That’s it. The media uses him. Why he is still considered an authority on anything in May 2009 I don’t know. He should have been left alone to just fade away.
Anyway his comments offended some people. Tough shit. His comments were fairly mild. It’s nothing compared to the hate that gay activists will be blogging about him tonight making fun of him, questioning his parenting ability, alleging his kids are neglected or worse, etc.
@17:
“socons fear ‘the gays’ of being accepted in public society.â€
Proof please?
The OK GOP platform: “We believe that in order to encourage and protect family values, those promoting homosexuality or other aberrant lifestyles, should not be allowed to hold responsible positions over children which are not their own or over other vulnerable persons….
We oppose the promotion of homosexuality, the elimination of laws against sodomy…
Neither homosexual nor extramarital sexual activity shall be presented as safe, nor shall they be presented as morally or socially acceptable behaviors.”
Emphasis added.
Don’t throw me softballs, Mr. Hughes.
Rob offers: “Like I’ve stated in the previous thread, socons fear ‘the gays’ of being accepted in public society.”
Rob, you may be right. I think with Joe’s exposure of his bias he better and more accurately represents the deep-seated, anti-gay, locker-room engendered phobic response by many soc-cons toward unapolegetic, unrepentant gays. Just like with illegal immigration, it’s a base hatred that defies rational explanation. Instead, the cover argument is “they started the culture war; we’re just fighting back” nonsense.
I hope Bruce & Company get the GOProud up and running in short order. That kind of group is needed in order to speak with some collateral authority to those hate-based biases seated deeply in many soc-cons.
Torrentpine, that’s “OK GOP” as in Oklahoma GOP –which is kind of like holding all Democrats acccountable by what happens in a SanFran DemParty meeting.
Do you know if the platform actually got adopted on April 17th? I heard there were 6 drafts floating at the convention/fundraiser.
The only place I could find with your language was “Gossip_Boy’s” blog. Nice anime, but it ain’t Reuters.
#30 – Thanks Matt. I would also point out that all 50 state GOP platforms and DC’s as well are enacted at the state convention level, which Matt beautifully illustrated using the SF analogy.
It doesn’t necessarily mean that ANY of the state party platforms will be enacted at the GOP national convention. Same goes for the Dhimmicrats.
Try again, tp. You’re 0-for-2 today.
Regards,
Peter H.
#25 Who said anything about destroying anybody? Why is it that as soon as someone disagrees with extreme conservatives we are ‘destroying’ them? These people don’t need to be ‘destroyed’ by anyone because given time they will destroy themselves.
@17:
“socons fear ‘the gays’ of being accepted in public society.â€
Proof please?
“[Peter LaBarbera, founder and president of Americans for Truth about Homosexuality] contends that homosexuals and their supporters are… push[ing] for the passage of the Uniting American Families Act (H.R. 1024), which would give homosexual Americans the right to sponsor foreign-born partners for residency.
“This is a ridiculous piece of legislation…Americans are already concerned over illegal immigration. I don’t think most Americans want to give incentives to bring more homosexual activists into the country, which is what this case embodies.”
“‘Hannah Montana’ star Miley Cyrus recently made statements supporting gay marriage. Such statements will send the wrong message to our children who are influenced by this teenage megastar. Parents need to realize that Cyrus is not the positive role model she was once thought to be.
Take Action: Send Miley Cyrus a letter stating that you do not approve of her comments.” Monica Cole of OneMillionMoms.com
WENDY WRIGHT, SENIOR POLICY DIRECTOR, CONCERNED WOMEN FOR AMERICA: We are born male and female. And we choose the sexual behavior, the sexual acts that we will engage in. And it’s really the kind of — that’s kind of hateful talk we’re hearing from the other guest, from Steve Schmidt. And that’s why I think we’re now seeing people who are — who see the true face of the homosexual movement, that, in fact, they do threaten and punish people who don’t agree with them.
I threw that last one in there to show how wide spread this “someone disagreed with me; they’re being hateful” whining has spread. It’s a shame to see it spread here, but I’m happy to help point it out if it helps just one person, and all that.
#32 – “Why is it that as soon as someone disagrees with extreme conservatives we are ‘destroying’ them?”
Probably because you are. Take for example David Shuster, a very liberal MSNBC commentator, who is defeding Perez Hilton and the Lavender Mafia:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/jeff-poor/2009/04/30/msnbc-s-shuster-launches-attack-campaign-against-miss-california-gay-marr
Actions speak louder than words, NJL.
Try again.
Regards,
Peter H.
#33 – And which fringe website are you cutting-and-pasting from, toiletpaper?
Regards,
Peter H.
You asked for proof that socons feared gays being accepted into society. I gave it. Now it’s “well, the whole GOP didn’t necessarily adopt that.” Nice dodge, from the socons to the GOP. I’m not dumb enough to fall for the switch, but I guess you had to try something (psst-when we can read the original question on the blog it’s hard to try to erase the past). Just because you are trying to broaden the pool to include enough what those OKers would call RINOS doesn’t mean I didn’t answer your question, with plenty of proof.
#36 – “You asked for proof that socons feared gays being accepted into society. I gave it.”
No you didn’t – you merely copy-and-pasted (as you do with all your arguments) from a copy of the Oklahoma GOP party platform, which has not been approved at the national level. And since you have already claimed that “socons” dominate the GOP, then you really don’t leave much room for error there, now do you?
“I’m not dumb enough to fall for the switch.”
Should I say it? Nah. Too easy. 😉
A wise man knows when to give up, toiletpaper. But I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.
Match, set, game. You lose. Thanks for playing.
Regards,
Peter H.
@35: Oh! He called me toiletpaper! Hateful! Hateful! LOL. At least you revealed your hypocrisy on the whole “debate respectfully” thing. What you mean, as conservatives have been showing since about five seconds after Obama was elected (think the disgusting reaction of the crowd during McCain’s graceful and impressive concession speech), is, “I’ll be respectful to those who agree with me and no one else.”
(“Toiletpaper”… Is this a grade school blog?)
No one ever could’ve seen that one coming. Oh, not at all! Gay patriots, your search for respectability on the far right is becoming something of a parody, wouldn’t you say?
#38 – “At least you revealed your hypocrisy on the whole “debate respectfully†thing.”
Get your commenters straight, tp. Dan (GayPatriotWest) is the one who called for respectful debate. And if you recall my response, I quoted General George Patton – quite colorfully, I might add.
So I wasn’t being hypocritical at all. I merely fight fire with fire. So if you want to keep on being the shrill liberal heterophobe that you are, I’ll merely enjoy myself by making mincemeat out of your argument, as I usually do.
I don’t seek to befriend my enemies. I seek to destroy them.
Regards,
Peter H.
There is absolutely no way in Hades that the Oklahoma GOP platform would ever be nationally adopted. There are too many people with libertarian leadings who would bristle with that wording, no mater their position on homosexuality. The comparison between the SF moonbats and the rest of the DNC is appropriate and applicable, IMHO.
And yes, I meant “stereotypical” regarding homosexual pedophiles. The stats suggest a male (usually a family member) molesting a girl to be the odds-on favorite. I thought the context of my comment bore that out, but if not, there it is.
I work in the childcare field, and yes, guilty until proven innocent is the norm for men. Given the aforementioned stats, I can hardly blame parents for that. I get nervous when leaving my girls with any male supervision other than me.
#41 – Exactly what we’ve been trying to tell these lower-casers, ROL. The Texas GOP platform at the state level is only a shade degree less reactionary than Oklahoma’s, and there’s no shortage of tug-o-war between various factions trying to get their two-cents’-worth on the platform.
Still, liberals can only believe in absolutes. True statists at heart.
Regards,
Peter H.
Look at the gay patriot hero list. Joe the Plumber (until yesterday), Carrie Prejean (still?), George W. Bush, Charlie Crist, Larry Craig, Ed Shrock, David Drier …
LoL. I love that trolls never discuss the Right. It’s always the “far right” and the “fringe right”.
Magic, the fact that you think the kinds of people this website is reaching out to are “far right” says a great deal about you and your position on the political spectrum.
This post is eating itself.
@40. Well, at least you admit you’re violating the rules and norms of the blog that hosts you. Now, if GPW allows it, simply because you’re on the same side… Well, that’s for him to contemplate.
The issue on the table, and the one Mr. Hughes objected to, was Rob’s statement that “socons fear ‘the gays’ of being accepted in public society.” He asked for proof that social cons do feel this way, and I gave him examples from both political and religious conservative organizations. Mr. Hughes is simply trying to pretend that he can substitute “the national GOP platform” for “social conservatives” in the sentence now that someone answered his challenge. I believe it’s called “moving the goalposts.”
Well, I know this will feed the trolls, but I think I know what is bothering Joe the Plumber and why he incautiously said:
Many people I know are very sensitive about gay teachers handling sex ed curriculum. Furthermore, I know from long, first hand experience that when a gay teacher gets “close” to a student, he is shut down immediately. In fact, gay teachers are under the same scrutiny given to teachers with alcohol or drug histories or serial womanizers. One of my close friends is a high school gym teacher and her partner is a university level tennis coach. Both of these women make certain they stay far away from being alone with any student and each knows she is walking on eggs in the respect that she is always subject to unfounded charges.
I used to meet with students regularly in an unmonitored setting. Years ago, a coed made the claim I had acted inappropriately. It was a nightmare and I learned not to trust to chance. My gay friends in the profession are doubly wary and they very well should be. When I have had gay students attempt to talk to me about whether they should be openly gay, I have to tell them that the liability of having any conversation whatsoever with them on that subject is far too great. I then offer them the resource list and inform them where they can get information from strangers. It is a rotten cop out, but is the world that John Edwards and his slap happy partners in slime have created.
Last week, my grand daughter came home with a note from her fourth grade teacher. The school is going to go over STDs and how they are transmitted. Parents have a chance to opt their child out. My daughter went in to look at the curriculum. She noted that they were not covering oral or anal sex. The school “assured” her that they were not going to go into “that kind” of transmission. My daughter, a physician, asked why they were only going to cover selected patterns of transmission and if they were also going to inform these 9 and 10 year olds on the various gels, dams and sheathes that can help block transmission. She came away from it all with the firm belief that everything about curriculum was misplaced, incomplete, poorly thought out and basically an effort to check off a box on a chart. She said she would love to be there when some militant gay parent comes in with his dander up demanding that gratification equality be honored.
The fact is that gay marriage is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to societal reticence in accepting, let alone embracing homosexuality.
Well, I know this will feed the trolls, but I think I know what is bothering Joe the Plumber and why he incautiously said:
Many people I know are very sensitive about gay teachers handling sex ed curriculum. Furthermore, I know from long, first hand experience that when a gay teacher gets “close” to a student, he is shut down immediately. In fact, gay teachers are under the same scrutiny given to teachers with alcohol or drug histories or serial womanizers. One of my close friends is a high school gym teacher and her partner is a university level tennis coach. Both of these women make certain they stay far away from being alone with any student and each knows she is walking on eggs in the respect that she is always subject to unfounded charges.
I used to meet with students regularly in an unmonitored setting. Years ago, a coed made the claim I had acted inappropriately. It was a nightmare and I learned not to trust to chance. My gay friends in the profession are doubly wary and they very well should be. When I have had gay students attempt to talk to me about whether they should be openly gay, I have to tell them that the liability of having any conversation whatsoever with them on that subject is far too great. I then offer them the resource list and inform them where they can get information from strangers. It is a rotten cop out, but is the world that John Edwards and his slap happy partners in slime have created.
Last week, my grand daughter came home with a note from her fourth grade teacher. The school is going to go over STDs and how they are transmitted. Parents have a chance to opt their child out. My daughter went in to look at the curriculum. She noted that they were not covering oral or anal sex. The school “assured” her that they were not going to go into “that kind” of transmission. My daughter, a physician, asked why they were only going to cover selected patterns of transmission and if they were also going to inform these 9 and 10 year olds on the various gels, dams and sheathes that can help block transmission. She came away from it all with the firm belief that everything about curriculum was misplaced, incomplete, poorly thought out and basically an effort to check off a box on a chart. She said she would love to be there when some militant gay parent comes in with his dander up demanding that gratification equality be honored.
The fact is that gay marriage is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to societal reticence in accepting, let alone embracing homosexuality.
heliotrope, in gay patriot world, everything you describe is the fault of the gay people themselves.
Well, Magic Dog, as a “str8” I am not at all comfortable with gay teachers “equalizing” sex ed curriculum. In fact, I am of the conviction that how you use your sex organs is not a civil right. So, perhaps, you misunderstand my post.
Gays who think that respect and acceptance can be legislated and encoded in the law are full of of beans. In the gay patriot world, if seems to me that these gays are fairly much in touch with reality.
Libertine gays are no different from libertine “str8s” in that they are always just to the left of license and dedicated to pushing the envelope. Living on the edge may be exciting to some, but for most serious people, it is a waste of the limited time we are given to be useful to humanity.
First of all, yes I’d say that it is high time Joe went back to being a plumber. He had a point of view on taxes, but he is no pundit.
Heliotrope, I couldn’t have said it better.
GP Ed Note: I’m wondering if Joe Biden could go back to being a plumber, too?
I guess that he doesn’t want his children around gays because they might catch the disease of being homosexual? Joe, it doesn’t work that way. And, I am sure that you know more gays than you realize.
It has more to do with the fact that the gay community supports teaching gay sex to five year olds, supports dressing children as sex slaves and taking them to sex fairs to “show off”, and opposes age-of-consent laws under the argument that sex with children seventeen years younger than they are is “common”.
The priorities of the gay community are made clear by the fact that it attacks and namecalls people like Joe the Plumber and Carrie Prejean, while supporting, endorsing, and protecting gays who sexualize and molest children.
Frankly, if I had children, I wouldn’t want most gays around them either.
He said it, yes he did, but he will either soon be apologizing, or totally imploding by trying to justify it.
I think many clumsy conversations are coming America’s way…
I think this site itself clearly demonstrates that there are reasonable, socially responsible gay people out there.
I would be more fearful of leaving my kids around heritage-destroying, postmodernist liberals than gays per se–the only problem is that those groups have a lot of overlap, generally.
My family are raving liberals, as are my in-laws, and I have to “debrief” my oldest daughter quite often after lengthy exposure to them.
But then again, your comment was probably spoken with this intent anyway, right? That you would be concerned about your children being in the company of “most gays” because most are blindly leftist?
I’m sure a lot of lefty trolls will just say you’re “self-loathing.” That’s the Left’s code word for anyone who leaves the groupthink reservation (just ask black conservatives).
Like many people who end up head first into the game of politics, they often find themselves puppeting the dogma of whatever team they find themselves on. The Left and Right have become almost cult-like, religions basically, where orthodoxies and canons must be adhered to. We know what the Left’s creeds are: abortion, high taxes, anti-Americanisms, to name a few. The Right, on the other hand, for whatever reason cannot shake its need to vilify homosexuals. Joe the Plumber was doing what Michael Moore always does: puppeting what he is told by his party. Does anyone think for himself anymore?