While current vote totals in the Land of Ten Thousand Lakes for the state’s Senate seat have Al Franken up by 312 votes over Norm Coleman, a recent “review of Minnesota’s statewide database of registered voters revealed at least 2,812 deceased individuals voted in last November’s general election, according to a new report by the “traditional values” advocacy group Minnesota Majority.”
Looking at this study, Jim Geraghty asks, “it would be useful to know the vote breakdown of these 2,800 or so votes.”
While we may not be able to determine how the dead voted, there is a standard that gives us a pretty accurate estimate. It’s from the City of Chicago which has a long history of dead men people voting. Overwhelmingly the dead in the Windy City prefer the party of Richard Daley, a pioneer in the electoral rights of the formerly living. Going with the Chicago rule whereby the dead vote by a margin of approximately 7.48 to 1 for the Democrat, 2,437 of the dead voted for Franken, with 375 voting for Coleman.
Some may have voted for Third Party candidate, Dean Barkley–alas, the Chicago rule does not consider Third Party candidates. Also to consider, Franken has a name that is likely to make a dead voter more amenable to his candidacy.
So, it seems Franken picked up 2,062 votes from dead voters (give or take a few hundred). Remove those from his tally and the lead returns to Coleman (who was ahead on election night and remained ahead until the Franken campaign persuaded canvassers to include previously rejected absentee ballots, where Democratic counties had more liberal standards for including such ballots than did Republican counties).
It seems that the dead really did put Franken over the top.
“Franken has a name that is likely to make a dead voter more amenable to his candidacy.”
Perfect ; )
It’s a sad day when election cheating has hit mainstream. I mean, is there any doubt at all that any election within the contestable margin is going to go lib now? And, of course, there is probably lots of cheating to get it that close to begin with. The election process in this country is going to have to undergo some serious changes. Unfortunately, the bleeding heart call for more and more imaginary voters is the only call being heard these days.
What is your evidence that these votes Franken’s way?
oh yeah.
You have none.
It stands to reason that data entry error is more likely than your wild assumptions. Unless of course you have some sort of other proof? If so, please share! We wait with bated breath
What evidence do you have that they didn’t? If you don’t have any evidence, you can shove your comment sideways.
Given that the American Community Organizers for the Registration of Necro-proxies always favor the left and the degree liberals have gone to to steal elections, it’s a pretty safe bet. Not to mention the left’s rabid opposition to providing identification at the polls.
“What evidence do you have that they didn’t?”
10 points to whoever can provide the name of this logical fallacy!
gillie,
If you get your head out of your rectum for a minute, and do a little research, you’ll find that GPW’s general statement (“dead votes trend Democratic”) is valid. Does this prove Franken cheated? No. But it is suggestive, which pretty much what GPW said in his original post.
Me I see a healthy tongue-in-cheek in what he wrote, but maybe I’m wrong. 🙂 I’m just sick of the whole mess. In fact, I find this a useful predictor on what might have happened after the Florida 2000 disagreement. Can anyone say that kind of literally incessant wrangling over the final 200 (or 100, or even 10) voters would not have fatally poisoned the entire election? Nixon took the smart way out back in 1960.
And I have to say it’s reflective on Al Gore that he showed less class than “tricky” Dick Nixon.
Now there’s a guy who couldn’t steal an election if his life depended on it.
TGC, you owe me one (1) cold can of Icehouse beer, and the cost of cleaning it out of my keyboard and off my monitor…
Since the number of dead voters is greater than the difference in votes between the candidates, the election is invalid.
If Minnesota really wants to elect a senator, it will have to hold the election again — and keep the voting limited to the living this time.
Casey, glad you showed us that our Mr. Gillie doesn’t appreciate it when others are silly. Do you think the line about Richard Daley’s pioneering work in ensuring the electoral rights of the formerly living?
Yeah, there was some tongue-in-cheek in this, but given the number of dead who voted and Franken’s margin, it’s entirely possible that more living voters picked Coleman than picked Franken, but, well, we’ll never know. And that’s a huge part of the point here.
As CL Davie said, “Since the number of dead voters is greater than the difference in votes between the candidates, the election is invalid.” Maybe not as a matter of law, but definitely as a matter of fact.
You got it, Casey.
It’s photographic.
CLD, you of course make a lot of sense, but unfortunately, our state constitution, at least to my knowledge, makes no provision for a do-over. It really would be the only way to decide a truly legitimate winner. As much as I believe Norm Coleman probably got more legitimate votes than Al Franken, whichever candidate is ultimately declared the winner will seem illegitimate.
Anyway, what the MN Supreme Court (and the legal process in general) owe the voters is a cogent explanation as to how they considered each and every argument about the vote. If, after considering the dead vote and the double-counted votes and the double-standards between how one county counts votes vs. another, Al Franken is ahead, so be it. It will help Al Franken too to legitimize him as the winner, which is something he (or any election victor) would want when coming into office. (Of course, this assumes Al Franken and his team actual believe they would have won even if you throw out dead votes, didn’t double count the vote somewhere, and had a uniform standard county to county. I wouldn’t make that assumption.) These concerns on behalf of the Coleman side seem legitimate to me. If the Franken side has other legitimate concerns it believes have worked against them, that’s fine. But opposing what seem to me legitimate concerns from the Coleman side make Franken’s true victory a lot more dubious.
Regardless of who wins, I hope that Minnesota (and other states) will really take a look at how elections are done. If both sides truly want fair elections (which should be the case if each party believes its side doesn’t cheat or, at least, cheats much less than the other side), both sides should push for electoral reform—efforts that will prevent people from possibly voting twice, casting votes for the dead, etc. That Democrats have by and large opposed such reforms whenever and wherever they’re proposed makes it hard for me to take anyone seriously who says that the Democrats cheat no more than (or even far less than) the Republicans. In any case, Republicans should highlight voter fraud because fair elections really can be a populist cause. And I would welcome Democratic politicians also pushing for such reform. I would hope we are all sick of elections where one can point to illegitimate votes as being part of the victor’s margin of victory. It would help both an election’s winner and that election’s loser to move on feeling that they won/lost fair and square.
As a gay woman from MN, I voted for Norm both times as our Senator, that said, it is time for this to end. He is a class act and I wish he would let it go. But, I am selfish, I would love to have him run for Govenor, now that Tim P is not seeking another term.
I felt with Norm and Amy K as our 2 senators it was a great balance, and they made a genuine effort to work for the better of our Country and State. Al Franken is a joke, but I’m afraid he was the best the Dems could offer in our State. Just so sad!
I am all in favor of a recount as well.
Cheers!!
#13 – “Al Franken is a joke, but I’m afraid he was the best the Dems could offer in our State.”
LibertyGal, you have my sympathy.
Then again, Al Franken hasn’t been funny since the Carter Administration. And just about as effective.
Regards,
Peter H.
The book on this election is going to be a doozie. Along with the book on Freddie and Fannie and the housing bubble, we are all going to be treated to how figures don’t lie, but lairs can figure.
The democrats have pushed for same day registration and provisional ballots and all manner of chicanery so that multiple avenues will be open to them for fixing a win. Al Gore was savvy enough to call in the Chicago machine to fight the recount battle in 2000.
I hope the Republicans have a voter fraud group and have learned from Cook County, the state of Washington, Florida 2000 and now Minnesota about where to look for democrat and ACORN corruption.
For a dead person to vote, it is necessary for a group of someones to know that the name is on the voting rolls and then acquire the services of a person willing to take the identity and cast a fraudulent vote.
And my, what a surprise; the Obama Party just ruled that requiring voters to provide identification and proof of citizenship is illegal.
If you want to stop the dead from voting, the only foolproof way is to require people to provide identification both at the time of registration and at the time of voting. But Obama and his Obama Party adamantly oppose that, apparently under the logic that minority members are incapable of providing identification because it’s a “hardship” — which means they can never drive, never buy alcohol or cigarettes, never cash a check, never open a bank account
This is where we start prodding the GOP to raise a bill in Congress that makes it clear you must be able to provide proof of US citizenship in order to register to vote. Force the showdown with the executive branch and force the Obama Party idiots in Congress to make it obvious that they support disenfranchisement of legal citizens.
At the recent hearing before the Minn. Supreme Court, Coleman’s lawyer written offers of proof, i.e. proposed evidence excluded at the trial court was criticized by the court, including republican appointed judges, as being seriously deficient. Coleman’s lawyer was criticized for offering merely speculations, without any detail, that there were flaws in the recount. Do people really think if this report had any credibility that Coleman’s lawyers would be so dumb not to inform the court of the large number of so called dead voters?
If you want to stop the dead from voting, the only foolproof way is to require people to provide identification both at the time of registration and at the time of voting. But Obama and his Obama[sic] Party adamantly oppose that, apparently under the logic that minority members are incapable of providing identification because it’s a “hardship” — which means they can never drive, never buy alcohol or cigarettes, never cash a check, never open a bank account
NDT, I’d love to believe that either party’s rationale for the ID issue is one of integrity as opposed to electoral advantage, but experience shows otherwise.
It may seem ridiculous, but it is a hardship. Many minorities do not have driver’s licences, and get around on buses and subways. Many do not have bank accounts. I was in this area of South Bronx once (aways from Yankee Stadium which I frequent quite often), and there wasn’t a bank anywhere in sight. (In an as densely populated area in Manhattan, there’s at least 20 banks.) There were check cashing places, and I’m not sure what kind of ID is required for that. And 95% of the time I can purchase alcohol without ID. I don’t purchase the other vice.
Despite all that, I agree that IDs should absolutely be required for registration and voting. I voted earlier this week, and had my ID out, but was never asked for it. An amateur could probably have copied my signature. In order to avoid any unnecessary hardship issues, we could require IDs such as passports and driver’s licenses, which require proof of citizenship in order to receive them. And for those who don’t have driver’s licences or passports, enable those who wish to vote to be able to get an ID for free. That still may be a hardship, but as long as it doesn’t require a cost (i.e., a poll tax), it should be legal and fair to all. There’s usually some hardship for all of us when we take time out of our day to vote.
As for the Coleman/Franken vote fiasco, there should just be another election at this point. There may be no provision in their state constitution for a do over. But I’m guessing there’s no provision for being without a senator for six months and counting either.
It is ridiculous. They don’t get mail? They don’t get welfare checks? They don’t get bills? They can’t get a state issued ID? They can’t get a library card?
Hell, many sates have the same requirements as BlockBuster Video like a bill, company ID, Socialist Stupidity card etc. There’s NO excuse for not having SOME form of ID and it’s not like nobody has any idea in advance when an election is going to be.
waaaaa. what a bunch of sore losers.
It’s going to be a LONG, LONG decade for you people. I, as one of many millions in this country, will love watching you put out one pathetic argument after another. Perhaps is you came up with a couple of new ideas on how to LEAD, you wouldn’t be looking at minority status for 10 – 20 years.
Coleman lost. The MN SC will be the final arbiter and Coleman will be relegated to the dust bin of history. Get over it crybabies.
Actually, by 2010, the American public will have gotten a full-on view of the blatant racism, obvious tax cheating, abysmal government waste, and massive tax increases that are the hallmarks of the Obama Party.
The best thing that ever could have happened to this country is Obama. In four years, liberalism will have been so completely discredited that racist welfare addicts like buckeyenutlover will be forced for the first time in their lives to work or starve.
And then there’s Pelosi’s pork corruption ring that’ll make Abramoff look like a piker. How long do you think the American people are gonna put up with that shit?
It is ridiculous. They don’t get mail? They don’t get welfare checks? They don’t get bills? They can’t get a state issued ID? They can’t get a library card?
Yes, TGC, I’m sure most people in the category where discussing get mail, welfare checks or other aid, bills, and can get a library card if they want. That’s not the issue here. I’m talking about (and I think NDT is as well) a picture ID that can only be received by showing proof of citizenship. I don’t think showing a library card is sufficient enough proof of the legitimacy of a vote.
Hell, many sates have the same requirements as BlockBuster Video like a bill, company ID, Socialist Stupidity card etc. There’s NO excuse for not having SOME form of ID and it’s not like nobody has any idea in advance when an election is going to be.
Again, I don’t think the forms of ID you mention here, even a Social Security card is sufficient.
If the number of “dead” voters can be proven to exceed the victory margin then the election is void. As there is no provision for a “do over” the governor then has the authority to fill the vacant seat by appointment until the next election or as required under Minnesota Law. It is not rocket science.