TGC: I didn’t realize I was specifically obligated to answer your posts. It’s unclear how it could have been more easy to understand though.

Seems to me that if someone asks you a question, you might ought to answer it and not be a dick about it.

Still didn’t answer which “neo-cons” were advocating war.

This whole “internal matter” angle is interesting. The murder of gays, Jews, Pols, gypsies, Czechs etc. was an “internal matter”. Guess we ought not to have “meddled” there either.

How obtuse are you countervail? YOU want ME to support gays, yet gays won’t support others? Take the 2 dying brain cells you have and figure that one out.

Your just to dense to get it that what you think doesn’t matter. It’s my support you want. And you actually wonder why people won’t support you when you pull this hogwash? I thought your just being a wiseass-a lesser degree than the prop 8 thugs. But I realize your just a dumbass of epic proportion.

Enjoy the next 20 years of not getting equal rights. With people like you on their side, plus backing Dems, you’ll never get them in your lifetime

I don’t know, Countervail. It depends on what you think our “long term diplomatic goals with the country” are.

“The President and others have advocated for the tolerance of peaceful demonstration and a commitment to non-violent action on both sides of the conflict. And when the time comes we will be in a much better position to help than if we acted otherwise.”

Again, Countervail, what do you mean by “when the time comes” and “help?”

The United States puts the opposition at risk, the people we want to help, specifically when we advocate for them in this instance. That is why the President hasn’t heightened the rhetoric, that is why most experts in middle eastern and world affairs have advocated caution and measured response, but most importantly it’s what the leaders of the opposition have asked. They do not want us involved because it allows the current Iranian leadership to use it to their advantage. Our involvement hurts those we want to help. Our involvement also hurts our long term diplomatic goals with the country and the region. Does that make sense? I understand you want to see action, but you don’t seem to realize that that action could have far worse consequences to the people we want to help and our national interests.

The President and others have advocated for the tolerance of peaceful demonstration and a commitment to non-violent action on both sides of the conflict. And when the time comes we will be in a much better position to help than if we acted otherwise.

It’s absolutely disingenuous for you to pose innocence on “who has been advocating war with Iran.” In 2 minutes time I could post dozens of news releases and reports about Republicans and conservatives who advocated that exact position for the last decade. If you promise to read it, I’ll post it at my blog.

And while GOProud is in its infancy, Log Cabin Republicans as it’s parent group has only once issued a denunciation of execution in Iran, just like every other gay group in 2005. In fact, when you search the word “death” on the site you’re more likely to find posts about the death tax or the passing of prominent Republican icons than the killing of gay men and women in the middle east. It’s not been a priority or even a cause to advocate whereas organizations like HRC and IGLHRC have done specific advocacy on this issue for many years.

But it’s not just specifically gay groups. It’s Republican and conservative groups in general. They simply have not stepped up to the plate at all with this kind of advocacy.

Finally Sue, I understand your anger. A lot of people are upset that more equality measures are not happening sooner with a new administration. But your anger here is misplaced. I’d ask that your read Peggy Noonan’s latest post for a perhaps better perspective on the situation than I can offer. Like Iran, you’ll do yourself a favor by saving all your emotion for the right time in the right place.

P.S. Sue, are you sure you’re from California? Because a “no” on 8 was a vote for gay rights, not the other way around. I’m a bit skeptical you’re commentary is honest here.

Where are you getting the impression anyone is saying send in the marines?

if for no other reason, we pledged 64 years ago ‘never again’ if we have the ability to help make something new in Iran, we damn well better.

According to you, we’d not have liberated Afganistan, or Iraq because their terror supporting ways are ‘internal matters’.

I have pointed out that groups like HRC, IGLHRC, coalitions within the United Nations and many other groups for years have spoken out and taken action both about the situation within Iran and other middle eastern countries for years.

If they actually had spoken out “for years”, one would think that they would be doing it yet again, no? What’s more, why do the mindless drones who support them make excuses for them?

Further, you do realize that GOProud is in it’s infancy and can’t do a whole heck of a lot yet, don’t you?

But then given your record, I don’t expect an answer. I expect more spin provided as the “current truth”.

This whole thing is approaching critical mass. If opposition leader Mousavi gets incarcerated or worse, assassinated, then the country will literally explode.

Regards,
Peter H.

I totally disagree. I think that regime is HIGHLY LIKELY to be replaced. SOON. When protesters are yelling “Death to the dictator,” a reference to the alleged supreme leader, you know they’re at a tipping point.

What’s my reason? I’m a Democrat and told you that. Don’t worry Countervail, i’m done with you and will do my talking at the ballot box- big fat no. You can thank yourself and thank other gays like you, the prop 8 thugs and all those gays that stayed silent when it happened for turning my yes vote into a no vote.

For someone that wants something from other people, you have a funny way of showing it. With people like you on their side, gays will never get rights. You can’t insult, degrade and alienate people into supporting you

But I see that this thread really isn’t about that after all. You’re all looking for an excuse to either criticize the president or criticize gay leadership groups in the United States for no other reason than you’re conservatives/Republicans.

Because if it were anything else, you’d actually:

a) have a record of calling for action and participated in actual advocacy before the current crisis with the previous administration and congress, since this is not a new scenario

b) have a record of calling for action and participated in actual advocacy for Iraq where even with the newly installed, supposedly pro-American government this action is still occurring; you’d also be appalled at the incidental death our actions there have cause with tens, maybe hundreds of people dead because of the military action in the country (is it possible to re-invade a country?)

c) have a record of calling for action and participated in actual advocacy for other countries where both human right abuses in general and specifically against gay men and women have occurred

d) have a record of calling for smart advocacy and policies that account for resolving the situation for the long term

What exactly have you done as advocacy to help Darfur, Sudan, China, Korea, etc.?

GOProud seems to be the model you’re looking for – a “gay” organization that posts immediate news releases proposing imprudent action and criticizing organizations that have a track record for taking actual action while not doing anything themselves.

With regard to gay organizations, I have been critical of them for not speaking out as much as they should with Obama reneging on his promises, and the briefs that were put out recently in Supreme Court cases. However, I’m not sure if criticism is warranted in this case. Obviously, I wouldn’t have a problem if they had a statement in support of the protesters, and they can certainly bring up the fact, again, that the current regime is deplorable against gay rights. But the current protest is not about gay rights. In fact, it appears that the opposition to the regime is no more friendly to gay rights than the current regime.

Sean A, I don’t believe gay organizations should be commented on abortion, if you ask me.

No wonder Bob’s so eager to not get involved or wants to see President Obama disinvite Imadinnerjacket from the July 4th celebrations at the White House. After all bob’s support of fascist government is well documented.

If Obama had been president in the 80′s, then my Russian classes would have been useful.

Even if we did get involved, it’s completely unreasonable to think that we can unseat the power structure in Iran.

I’ve not found anybody here who suggests we should. Am I wrong?

It’s a lose-lose situation

How do we lose by voicing our support for freedom from tyranny?

(not just neoconservative war advocacy) by GOProud and other conservative and Republican organizations.

I’m sorry, who has been advocating war?

Blow it out your a$$

If your not them or in their circle, they are telling you they don’t give a crap with their silence. It is not about Republicans reaction vs gay reaction. It IS about gays reaction to the situation, period, end of sentance. You want something from me that the majority of gays are not even willing to give to people that are in the same boat as them. Good luck with that one