Read that again, Sonic.

So you would be impressed if she had put her entire family through abuse that even you admit was hateful, violent, wrong, and completely unwarranted

Instead of pointing out that Barack Obama paid for, pushed for, and is driving this abuse, you sit back and whine that there’s nothing that can be done about it.

That’s awfully convenient.

The irony is that, whatever candidate you’re pushing, if they go up against Teh One, they’re going to get this same kind of treatment. Do you really intend to put every single candidate for office through that, or are you willing to stand up and say that Barack Obama is the ultimate example of pond scum for funding and pushing people like Andrew Sullivan?

Also, I am pretty sure those are all considered compliments at Sidwell Friends Academy.

Has David Letterman made jokes about Obama’s daughters being whores? Getting “knocked up?” Have the Republicans sold T-Shirts reading “Obama’s Daughters are Whores?” Have crude Photoshops of Obama’s daughters been displayed on the websites of official RNC bloggers? Have they been called dykes, vandals, and drug users?

My position has consistently been it’s wrong to attack Sarah Palin’s kids. Why do you have such difficulty understanding that?

That’s what you fundamentally don’t get about Palin, Sonicfrog. In the minds of people like yourself and the punditocracy, politics is what rules, and power is the coin of the realm. You simply can’t understand how someone could have values above and beyond holding onto a position.

Hmmmm, never been described as part of a “punditocracy” before. If I wasn’t a non-conforming-non-conformist, I might like it. Politics don’t rule. Keeping and honoring the public trust they place on you when serving in office does.

So you would be impressed if she had put her entire family through abuse that even you admit was hateful, violent, wrong, and completely unwarranted, just to hold on to a political position.

And if she runs for President, the same abuse is not going to happen why?

I would have been much more impressed with this line of argument if she would have dropped out of Politics altogether. But here’s a new quote from Palin:

Conditions have really changed in Alaska in the political arena since Aug. 29, since I was tapped to run for VP. When that opposition research just – those researchers bombarded Alaska — started digging for dirt and have not let up. They’re not gonna find any dirt,” she said. “We keep proving that every time we win an ethics violation or a lawsuit, and we won every one of them. But it has been costing our state millions of dollars. It’s cost Todd and me.

OK fine. Like I said, she’s had no problem beating back the legal stuff. But then she continues:

You know the adversaries would love to see us put on the path of personal bankruptcy so that we can’t afford to run.”

If she runs for President, she will be putting her children in the exact same position they were in before, as fodder for a scandal hungry media machine. The metrics of the legal situation will change, yes. But do you really think that Andrew Sullivan will decide in a couple of years that Trig is now off limits? Of course he won’t. The press are like the scorpions in the “Scorpion and the Frog” allegory. They’re going to behave like the scorpions they are. To expect anything different in two years would be nuts.

That said, we’ll see what the future holds.

I think this is my last word on this subject, as we both know you’re not going to even consider or think about any of the points I’ve brought to the table.

Damn straight it’s her Achilles heel. If you’re willing to turn your family over to be destroyed publicly just so you can hold on to political power, you’re some kind of sociopath, and you should not be in public office.

Again, I doubt anyone would call me a quitter for walking away from a poker game that was rigged, or for refusing to stay in a job that was harming my partner. People understand fundamentally that there is no dishonor in leaving an unwinnable situation or choosing someone else’s welfare over your own.

Palin now has a simple answer for the MSM nitwits: “Would you stay in a job where people were publicly stating on national television that they were out to bankrupt you, calling your daughters whores, claiming your husband was having incestuous sex with them, and openly stating that your disabled son should have been aborted?”

And if they stammer that they would, she pounces: “Why? Do you consider political power more important than your family? Would you allow your children to be abused just for a title? What’s your motivation there?”

What both you and Sonic are missing, Kurt, is that what was done to Palin was not normal. It was disgusting. The more obvious it is made how disgusting it was, the less people care about her leaving the job.

Maybe she has some compelling reason for leaving office, but if so, I still haven’t heard it. She might envision having more of an impact outside of the system than inside it, and perhaps she’s right, but I’m still skeptical.

Like Sonicfrog, I’m disappointed that Palin quit. If by some chance she were to be the Republican nominee in 2012, I’d most likely vote for her because she’d certainly be many times better than Obama, but the press would have a field day with her for having quit, and I’m sure that once again the public would be persuaded into re-electing Obama.

So you would be impressed if she had put her entire family through abuse that even you admit was hateful, violent, wrong, and completely unwarranted, just to hold on to a political position.

What I think Palin recognized is that people like you are not worth impressing. And that is what makes her truly exceptional; she refused to sacrifice her family to hold on to a political position only to impress people like you and Barone.

That’s what you fundamentally don’t get about Palin, Sonicfrog. In the minds of people like yourself and the punditocracy, politics is what rules, and power is the coin of the realm. You simply can’t understand how someone could have values above and beyond holding onto a position.

Sarah believes politics should be subordinate to her family’s needs, not the other way around. And what that makes clear to the rest of us is that being a politician and holding power is less important to her than doing what’s right.

I’m a teacher. I see how much it hurts the kids. First hand.

But apparently, it doesn’t hurt them enough to make you actually do anything about it when the end result — getting rid of Palin — is what you want to happen.

I shake my head. I, along with Michael Barone, am arguing that Palin, through this latest action, got rid of herself by ditching the last part of her term. Why are you so intent on setting up Sarah Palin as a martyr? Do you think that is going to make her a more appealing character to those who already would not vote for her? Yes, Palin and her family has had tons of crap thrown her way. But it’s the way we handle the crap and the adversities that separate the exceptional from the common man. Right now I don’t see exceptional in the act of quitting her publicly elected post.

BTW – You realize Alinsky is simply warmed over Art of War and The Prince by Sun Tzu and Machiavelli. Nothing original or ground-breakingly frightening in his playbook. But since you’re quoting….

RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)

Except it only works if you let the criticism get under your skin.

You tried that on me with the “Bigot” accusation, and this dumb notion that I am happy Palin has quit. I’m disappointed she quit. I would have liked to she what her record was after a full term. Doesn’t mean I would have voted for her, but it would have been nice to see.

RULE # 12 – The left has used it against Pailn. The right has used it against Letterman. We’re all Alinskye’s now.

#46 Giles would look good in (or out of) anything! His latest Townhall column is beyond disgusting though. Every right wing lie about the “hate crimes” bill is there. But according to NDT lying and hating is ok when it’s against gays.

FIFY is so incredibly juvenile, right up there with “I know you are what am I” and “I’m rubber you’re glue”. If you want to refute what someone said have the intelligence to spell it out don’t use the blog form of graffiti.

Alinsky Rule #4; make people play by their own rules. You are trying to get us to apply a standard of decency to Franken that you mock when it comes to Sarah Palin.

So I’ll throw that back on you. Since you state that having your family savaged as Palin’s was is a fact of political life, that she should just shut up and take it, and that any complaining or acting against it is playing the victim card, be consistent yourself and state that it is perfectly OK to savage Franken, that he should just shut up and take it, and that if he complains or acts against it, he’s whining and playing the victim card.

I’m a teacher. I see how much it hurts the kids. First hand.

But apparently, it doesn’t hurt them enough to make you actually do anything about it when the end result — getting rid of Palin — is what you want to happen.

Again, the Alinskyite left is hilarious. They talk about the pain namecalling causes children while they’re casually calling others retards and whores. You have to wonder what kind of parents produced children who honestly believe that everything they do is right and that the ends justify the means, regardless of how disgusting.

Again, why are you demanding that we defend Franken, but insisting that Palin should simply shut up and bear it?

No. What I’m asking is for you to be consistent. If it’s wrong to attack Sarah Palin, then it’s wrong to attack Sen Al Franken (bleh).

I don’t think he really has a clue how much it hurts a parent to see their kids attacked day after day.

I’m a teacher. I see how much it hurts the kids. First hand. I had to send a student to the office for repeatedly calling a girl in the class a stoner. I also see how much they joke about the same things between themselves.

I also have another perspective. I WAS that kid. Mine wasn’t family problems per se, but being short and cross-eyed. Got picked on all the time. I have the wonderful memory of being beat up by a girl in eight grade. I didn’t fight back because I was taught you never hit a girl. If you’re going to be a public figure, your kids are going to hear bad stuff about you and your family. It’s sad, but it goes with public life. Do you have the same sympathy for the Obama kids, who go to school and hear that their father is a lying, corrupt, socialist marxist commie?

Imagine Piper or Willow going to school and having all the kids repeat to her the terrible things they’ve heard about her mother, her sister, her brothers… I think Sarah’s tough enough to take it, but she’s not power hungry enough to put her kids through that.

So are you saying that she should not seek the office of the Presidency? Because despite all the kvetching and moaning that is done over the mean-spiritedness and unfairness of the press, it’s not going to change. If she runs for President, her family will be the recipient of the same / similar treatment. I wish I were wrong, but unfortunately, the dynamic is pretty much set in stone.

PS. As I discussed in a previous post, the Trig Truthism thing is weird and irrational, just as the “Obama not a citizen” thing is. But these people have every right to make themselves look stupid and express their thoughts, or does the conservative movement now support thought police?

Maybe he hates Sarah so much, he wants to see her family destroyed. I don’t know. I don’t think he really has a clue how much it hurts a parent to see their kids attacked day after day. Imagine Piper or Willow going to school and having all the kids repeat to her the terrible things they’ve heard about her mother, her sister, her brothers… I think Sarah’s tough enough to take it, but she’s not power hungry enough to put her kids through that.

If Frankenfurter has minor children, and Rush Limbaugh of Sean Hannity calls them whores or drug addicts on his show, I will have the decency to say they’re wrong and Frankenfurter has the right to be outraged.

Who exactly is she going to sue. Sullivan??? For exercising his right to free speech???

So, now you’re defending Trig Trutherism? Pathetic. Milky Loads has been pretty weaselly about his allegations, couching them in the “I’m just asking questions” pose of the cowardly little gossip queen he is. But the left-wing bloggers who’ve been claiming that the FBI is about to frog-march Palin from the capitol on the basis that she bought building materials from the same place the contractor for the Wasilla Sports Complex bought building materials may not be so lucky.

Again, why are you demanding that we defend Franken, but insisting that Palin should simply shut up and bear it?

If she wants to hold a higher office someday, she needs to show the voters who aren’t already in her camp that she has the will and the fortitude to stick with the job no matter how unpleasant it becomes.

Are you out of your mind? Why should she let her family be destroyed and attacked to prove this point?

Again, notice how both Sonic and Kurt blame Palin. It’s all Palin’s fault; she should have just sat there and let people abuse her.

The real problem here is that the insane shrieking left is allowed to attack and attempt to destroy peoples’ lives, families, and livelihoods. But apparently Kurt and Sonic consider that normal.

Palin may have a very good reason for leaving office now, but if she does, I haven’t heard it. She might feel she doesn’t need to explain because her friends will understand. That could be, but it’s hard not to read this decision as one of giving a lot of ground to her critics.

She didn’t have to run for a second term, but why not finish this one? She knew that there were personal and professional costs (including costs to her children and her family) to running for and holding elected office. If she wants to hold a higher office someday, she needs to show the voters who aren’t already in her camp that she has the will and the fortitude to stick with the job no matter how unpleasant it becomes.

It should be noted that the actual malice standard focuses on the defendant’s actual state of mind at the time of publication. Unlike the negligence standard discussed later in this section, the actual malice standard is not measured by what a reasonable person would have published or investigated prior to publication. Instead, the plaintiff must produce clear and convincing evidence that the defendant actually knew the information was false or entertained serious doubts as to the truth of his publication. In making this determination, a court will look for evidence of the defendant’s state of mind at the time of publication and will likely examine the steps he took in researching, editing, and fact checking his work. It is generally not sufficient, however, for a plaintiff to merely show that the defendant didn’t like her, failed to contact her for comment, knew she had denied the information, relied on a single biased source, or failed to correct the statement after publication.

Not surprisingly, this is a very difficult standard for a plaintiff to establish. Indeed, in only a handful of cases over the last decades have plaintiffs been successful in establishing the requisite actual malice to prove defamation.

You are a bigot.

A bigot is a person who is intolerant of or takes offense to the opinions, lifestyles or identities differing from his or her own, and bigotry is the corresponding attitude or mindset. Bigot is often used as a pejorative term to describe a person who is obstinately devoted to prejudices, especially when these views are either challenged, or proven to be false or not universally applicable or acceptable.

A bigot??????

Have I ever attacked Palin on her opinion? lifestyle? or identity?

The answer would be “Absolutely No”. This accusation is displaying the same type of emotionally driven identity politics used by the left when they accuse Republicans, or anyone who supports Republicans, of being racists and homophobes.

Good that she got the pipeline deal done. Kudo’s for getting that wrapped up. But that was part of her resume from the last election cycle. She will now have no new executive accomplishments because she quit after two and a half years. In another two years Obama would have more time as an executive than her. He’s not doing a great job now (did I just win the understatement of the year award) but, I’m sorry, you can’t count on Obama being another Carter. Odds are the economy will improve despite his fiscal blunders, and, if he’s nothing else, he’s a great campaigner. It will take the best candidate the Republicans have to defeat him.

OK, V. It would impress me a HELL OF A LOT MORE if would finish her job despite the virulent press. Who exactly is she going to sue. Sullivan??? For exercising his right to free speech??? Aren’t we already fighting against that battle with the stupid effort to reimplement the fairness doctrine? Are you and NDT going to be the first ones out of the gate to defend Sen. Al Franken (bleh) against vicious slander from Limbaugh or Hannity or Savage????

Malice cases are extremely hard to prove. If she tries to sue someone today, right now, she could, if the case doesn’t get thrown out as frivolous, which would be bad for Palin, she may very well still be in court during the election season which would also be bad for Palin.

Sorry, a Governor who couldn’t stand the heat of political office is NOT the best the GOP can offer.

That’s my assessment and I’m sticking to it.