I’m not suggesting that you are secretly a “Birther”

Yeah, and if I ask you “Have you stopped beating your wife”, I am in no way planting the suggestion that you beat your wife. Riiiiiiiiiight.

(Obama really should have manned-up and produced the “long form” , on his medical records as well as his BC.) My simple question is… why?

But I already gave reasons, sf. Three times! (#35. First sentence of #43. Additional reason in the second paragraph of #43, namely that McCain manned up and gave the long form of his medical records.) You didn’t care then, so I shouldn’t expect you to care now, if I were to re(-re-re-)state them.

Right, because no “conservative” commenting on here has EVER been sarcastic, insulting or questioned another’s intelligence.

Jesus H., TGC Could you possibly be a bigger f**kin’ hypocrite? Besides, what’s wrong with a big dick>

Again, my own view in the end is that (1) Obama probably is a natural born citizen

Note, you didn’t say Obama “is” a natural born citizen, you said “probably”, which suggests doubt that he is a citizen. I’m not suggesting that you are secretly a “Birther”, but you seem to have doubt about the validity of the “short form”, even though it is the recognized proof of citizenship for Hawaiians. And you state:

He really should have manned-up and produced the “long form”

My simple question is… why?

If you decline to answer, I don’t mind. I’m just curious.

Are you implying that the state government of Hawaii is involved in a conspiracy to cover up Obama’s true place of birth?

As I said, sf: This is the part where it becomes impossible to discuss anything with you, because you too busy inventing the other guy’s position.

Again, my own view in the end is that (1) Obama probably is a natural born citizen and (2) there are other issues we should all be concentrating on. I just don’t think Obama deserves a complete pass on all this. He really should have manned-up and produced the “long form”, on his *medical records*…

I agree with the latter, but why should he have to show the “long form” if the “short form” is what is recognized by the US as the legal birth certificate from his state? Are you implying that the state government of Hawaii is involved in a conspiracy to cover up Obama’s true place of birth? And gee, if the “Triggers” could prove that Sarah is not his mom, then they could show she is a liar and weird and not fit to be VP (or President). So in a stupid crazy bat shit conspiracy driven world, the Trig thing is relevant to the election.

Obama has proven he is a natural born citizen of the United States, and Palin has proven she is Trig’s mom. Unless of course you live in a world where the government controls airplanes via remote control, UFO’s steals cows (should have gone to McDonalds – less effort to get a burger), hides evidence of those UFO’s from the public, Bush knew there were no WMD’s in Iraq, and fire has never melted steel. In that case, it doesn’t matter how much evidence you produce, nothing would be good enough.

how [are Obama BC questions] any different than the stupid “Trig Truther” BS?

First, permit me to re-quote my position (my own earlier comments) on the Obama BC question, lest you – like Casey – try to “invent” my position out of whole cloth:

The thing about the birth certificate issue is: It’s over. Obama is President….
I figure [Obama] probably is [a natural-born citizen], and that there is probably just something on his real birth certificate that he finds a little bit embarrassing for some reason…
Again, my own view in the end is that (1) Obama probably is a natural born citizen and (2) there are other issues we should all be concentrating on. I just don’t think Obama deserves a complete pass on all this. He really should have manned-up and produced the “long form”, on his *medical records* [emphasis added]…

OK, now to answer your question: The last time I checked, Trig Palin was not a serious candidate for President of the United States. Hence, his birth status was not of constitutional import to the whole society.

In fact – Isn’t Trig somebody’s Downs Syndrome baby, or something like that?

ILC, applying a different standard to one

Which, in fact, I am not doing. (I am *not* applying a different standard to Obama than I had applied in 2008 to other Presidential candidates, or would apply to a new crop of candidates.)

As I said, sf: This is the part where it becomes impossible to discuss anything with you, because you too busy inventing the other guy’s position to have a real discussion.

The bottom line is this. Does the short form, in all other cases, count as proof of citizenship? Yes it does. If you are from Hawaii, the short form is this form you would present when applying for a passport. And if you are not born in Hawaii, you’re say, born in Kenya, and are issued a short form, the short form will say you were born in Kenya.

Here is the latest, most detailed, smackdown of the “Birther” nonsense.
.
Interestingly, Calif and Texas citizens must produce a long form to get a passport.

BTW, how is this nonsense any different than the stupid “Trig Truther” BS?

And ILC can kiss my butt

Casey: It might make me just a *little* bit hot to be ranted about in the third person by someone apparently obsessed with me enough that he freaks if I even ask a question, then wait for an answer from someone with real knowledge (that was hardly a joke on my part) – and then further just makes sh*t up about “me” (supposedly) that I never suggested nor dreamed in this thread, even supplying faked/forged quotations of “me” – but not 0.1% hot enough to consider performing sexual acts on you. In fact, I probably never would. Sorry, but I must hereby decline your misplaced offer.

Obviously.

Actually, you’re more along the lines of a complete asshole on the rag with the typical “I know more than you” arrogant attitude. There’s about a hundred ways you could have responded, but you chose to be a complete asshole instead.

Some of us just don’t have the luxury of reading milblogs and what not all day long. I heard the story on Rusty Humphries the other night on the way back from WalMart. He was skeptical of the WND story and I agreed. The last that I read anything about his birth cert was a longwinded, hifalutin analysis of how it was a forgery. That and headlines I’ve seen where it was being challenged in court. That was the bulk of what I knew about it. As far as I was concerned, it was still an open and valid question.

ILoveCapitalism can dance around all day long with his logic-chopping (reminiscent of Slick Willy’s definition of what “is” is), but the bottom line is still the Blue Falcon in question was never, ever obliged to serve in Afghanistan. Whether he formally or officially asked to be relieved of the assignment for which he volunteered is irrelevant.

All of this was part of a kabuki dance intended to set up an opportunity to again raise the stench about Barry Obama’s alleged irregularities with respect to his citizenship. Apparently ILC has gotten his nose out of joint because I refused to play along with his stupid game. He objects to my tone, but my tone results from his own self-assumed burden of not actually engaging his brain for, like, thirty seconds.

And ILC can kiss my butt with his idiot crack about “somebody with, you know, actual knowledge.” If he got his head out of his self-important buttocks long enough to surf some of the more popular milblogs, he would have discovered that more than a few real, live soldiers know exactly what Blue Falcon is up to, and why this whole story is a ludicrous joke. I investigate, and learn, from those with “actual knowledge” and make a point to learn from them. In this case, it’s why I was up to speed while most conservatives were hopping up and down with glee at the chance to give Barry a black eye.

And if ILC (again) took the time to follow some of the more popular milblogs on a regular basis, he would also have found out that the unit in Afghanistan has officially stated that they don’t want Blue Falcon over there. I’m sure ILC will find yet another excuse to whine that Ed Morrissey and I are picking on him, imply that we are somehow tools of “the liberals” because we are “willing to accept what liberals are telling them.” In other words, lacking a real counter-argument, ILC falls back on sophomoric tu quoque slander. ILoveCapitalism, if you’re dumb enough to call Ed Morrissey a dupe of the left, try checking the Weekly Standard some time. They hire credulous dupes all the time.

You’re making an exception for one guy.

Which, in fact, I am not doing.

This is the part where it becomes impossible to discuss anything with you, sf, because you just make up whatever you want about what the other guy is up to. Have fun setting your straw men ablaze.

Actually, I agree with you.

Citizens should be able to demand – and the candidate should be expected to either produce, or have good and honest excuses for not producing – a “long form” at any time. It doesn’t matter what standards have been in effect for previous Presidential races, because the whole point of moving forward in time is that standards evolve.

But you’re not changing the standards; You’re not changing the rule, i.e. the standard for everyone from now on. You’re making an exception for one guy.

One thing I find interesting about this subject is the reason the citizenship provision was created. If you look at the original intent of the citizenship provision of the eligibility requirements to be President, you’ll find the main reason behind it was to prevent an agent of another country, say Brittan, from becoming President and giving Brittan undue influence in the affairs of the newly created nation. So far, though he’s not done a great job so far as President (Understatement Of The Year award once again goes to me) I can’t see any policy leanings that are skewed to benefit Kenya. Heck, in his recent visit to Africa, he avoided the mother country like the plague.

I figure he probably is, and that there is probably just something on his real birth certificate that he finds a little bit embarrassing for some reason.

Seriously here, I’ve seen the birth certificate online. That’s what a Hawaii birth certificate looks like. There is no way that I know of to request a “long form” birth certificate (I happen to have Hawaii’s Department of Vital Statistics bookmarked, & I checked before typing that). I don’t get this kerfluffle. I really don’t.

How did the other Presidents prove their citizenship? Did all the others produce a “short form” cert? If they did, and that was good enough for them, then the case is closed. If, however, they produced a “long form”, then Obama should too.

Citizens should be able to demand – and the candidate should be expected to either produce, or have good and honest excuses for not producing – a “long form” at any time. It doesn’t matter what standards have been in effect for previous Presidential races, because the whole point of moving forward in time is that standards evolve.

Also and just FYI or FWIW, there is an important area where Obama didn’t come remotely close to meeting the standards of previous Presidential campaigns or the standards of his opponent (McCain): the production of medical records. The media gave Obama a big ‘pass’ on that.

can I claim a higher-standard for Obama than my own proof of native-born citizenship?

Ted, last time I checked, you weren’t President, nor running for it. So: Yes.

Again, my own view in the end is that (1) Obama probably is a natural born citizen and (2) there are other issues we should all be concentrating on. I just don’t think Obama deserves a complete pass on all this. He really should have manned-up and produced the “long form”, on his medical records as well as his BC.

While the question’s academically-interesting, can I claim a higher-standard for Obama than my own proof of native-born citizenship?