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Wading Into the Birther/Anti-Birther Swamp

Posted by GayPatriotWest at 9:45 pm - August 2, 2009.
Filed under: Blogging

Perhaps I should never have blogged on this issue.  It’s not one I think about very much.  About the time I first heard about the issue of Obama’s missing birth certificate, I had also read the Republican Governor of Hawai’i, Linda Lingle, had seen the certificate which showed that Barack Obama was indeed born in the Aloha State.  As far as I was concerned, the case was closed.

But, then, this week, it seemed that each passing day I checked the various blogs and news-sites I read, there were more posts on the “birther” issue.  The U.S. House even voted on the issue.  So, I hacked out a quick post, basically echoing what a variety of bloggers on both sides of the political aisle were saying–that the president should release the certificate so we could move on.

(Also wondering if poll DailyKos commissioned triggered the latest round of discussion on this issue.)

Yet, some of our critics, apparently since I raised the issue and am a conservative, put words into my mouth so they could criticize them.  They acted as if I shared the view of the “birthers” that the president was not born in the USA, even though I said the exact opposite:

I believe Barack Obama was indeed born in the United States and has met the constitutional requirements to serve as President 

Not just that, I had written (in the very post):  “Release the Birth Certificate to allow the focus to return to [the president’s] agenda.”  In short, I only posted on the issue to say we needed to move on.

So, please feel free to criticize my posts, but when you do so, at least show me the courtesy of addressing the points I make, not the ones you want me to have made so you can attack me as representative of the rabid right winger you relish reproving.

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36 Comments

  1. Why is up to Obama to release his birth certificate? It would seem that this basic document would be a public document able to be viewed by anyone. You are a lawyer ………. why not.

    Comment by Swampfox — August 2, 2009 @ 10:00 pm - August 2, 2009

  2. The left is losing it and getting nastier and nastier. Dan you are getting off easy, they are only accusing you of being a birther.
    Have you seen what they did to Sarah Palin this weekend, spread vile rumors on some nameless blog that CNN jumped on.

    I’m sorry so many of these angry lefties feel it is imperative that they prove to us that not only are they wrong, they are evil. Everything they claimed the right to be, they are proving it is true of themselves.

    Comment by Leah — August 2, 2009 @ 10:04 pm - August 2, 2009

  3. 10 Reasons Not to Get Mixed Up in the Birther Controversy. Just sayin’

    Comment by V the K — August 2, 2009 @ 10:33 pm - August 2, 2009

  4. V, shudda read that before I first blogged on the issue.

    Comment by GayPatriotWest — August 2, 2009 @ 10:41 pm - August 2, 2009

  5. DailyKos polls are only slightly less reliable than those put out by the Iranian regime.

    Comment by American Elephant — August 2, 2009 @ 11:14 pm - August 2, 2009

  6. […] Blatt responds. I should note that I never intended to imply that he was a birther; rather, I think it’s […]

    Pingback by The most embarrassing thing published by an Eph this week : EphBlog — August 2, 2009 @ 11:16 pm - August 2, 2009

  7. I think it is admiral to bring up a subject you disagree with and look at it objectively. That is a sign of an intellectual, inquisitive, open minded person. Society is trying to get rid of or scare off the inquisitive, open minded person through fear and belittling them by putting them into a ridiculous “crazy” group. I have seen this on both sides Right and Left. The Left have the media behind them at this time and are capitalizing on it. They have the power. Many on the right do not want to look “crazy”. That is why they do not like this Birther thing. The Left did a great job pulling out the crazy. They do this with all groups.

    Most people saw what you wrote, you believe Obama was born in the USA. Just bringing light to the other side. In a very respectful way. The people who get angry are afraid of looking like the “crazy” group.

    Comment by Kt — August 2, 2009 @ 11:57 pm - August 2, 2009

  8. Dan, I hope I didn’t imply that I thought you were on the Birther side of this debate. I appreciate any fair discussion of this topic. Yet intellectually there comes a point where I believe you should draw a line in the sand. And if we add up facts vs speculation and innuendo, the Birther movement has not an intellectual leg to stand on. It is about as credible as the Moon Landing denialists or the 9/11 truthers. My metric in these matters continues to be that extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof. The Birthers fall extraordinarily short in this regard.

    I am dismayed that the leaders of the Republican party try to say he’s “probably” a legal natural citizen, yet continue to leave the door open by inserting a “but” Obama should do this or that to confirm his status, even though he has done exactly all that is required by law to so. I find it even more disturbing that Rush, Hannity, Savage, Levin, and Laura Igraham, the most popular voices of the Conservative movement, continue to ride the Birther wave. Yes, I’ve heard each with my own ears perpetuate this poisonous line of attack. And where they go, the Conservative Army follows. It’s one yet one more example of why I have been so critical of that group of spokesmen. The only one I’ve heard that has recognized the lethal potential of this whole conspiracy has been Michael Medved. And he gets calls chastising him for not getting on board.

    Though I am no longer a registered member of the Republican party, I still identify with them much more than I do with Democrats. What I fear most is that the current leaders of the Republican party will follow this insanity to the point that they will blow any chance of either winning in 2010 or, if they do, being able to build on that temporary success, because too many people identify the Republican movement as a whole as bizarro conspiracy nuts.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — August 3, 2009 @ 12:57 am - August 3, 2009

  9. Sonicfrog, I have seen no indication that any but the most fringe members of the GOP are following this movement. I mean, I digest a good deal of conservative information on a daily basis and until the last week of July, didn’t say all that much on it. Bob Owens at Confederate Yankee had long since debunked the story (maybe as long as a year ago?)

    I do wonder if the main reason this is back in the news is due to the DailyKos poll–the far left reigniting the issue to use the far right to discredit the right.

    Given the House vote last week, I see no sign the GOP will pursue the issue.

    I was not fully aware of how much controversy this issue excites until I posted on it. And I thought my post was largely non-controversial because I was basically reiterating a notion endorsed by liberal as well as conservative bloggers–including even “Doc” Sullivan.

    Comment by GayPatriotWest — August 3, 2009 @ 1:48 am - August 3, 2009

  10. The way I see it, as I’ve said before, we have a president whom we know next to nothing about and fought hard to prevent anybody from finding out. Is this the standard for future presidents now? All we have is his word. Is that what we’re to go by now?

    I’ve read a few of the WND articles and it seems clear to me that they’re trying to find out more about him including his transcripts, any articles and/or theses he’s written. What’s so damn wrong with that?

    Further, my honest opinion is that there’s not a damn bit of difference between those who throw around the pejorative “birther” and those who throw around “racist”. I don’t care which side of the aisle the person is on, there seems to be little difference.

    But that’s just me. It may not be “intellectual” or whatever, but well, there it is.

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — August 3, 2009 @ 6:03 am - August 3, 2009

  11. Oh, and I don’t think we look anymore foolish than the a-holes who had to forge “fake, but accurate” documents or still believe that “Bush lied” or that Valerie Wilson was a Super Duper triple secret agent exposed by Cheney. Not by a long shot. To continue to suggest such is playing right into the hands of the ignorant wretches trying desperately to perpetrate that fraud on the American populace.

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — August 3, 2009 @ 6:08 am - August 3, 2009

  12. While it’s odd that ‘our’ POTUS hasn’t released the back-up documentation, what’s been released publically has more detailed information than what’s on MY own official NJ birth certificate. And the McCain argument about the Panama Canal Zone has no merit since it’s been established law and policy that the Zone was US territory and soil at that time…and that he was a born-dependent of a serving US Naval officer serving at his duty-station, which also has established law and precedence.

    It would be more helpful if the rabid, unreconstructed conservatives found a more useful Obama deficiency to hammer-away at. And leave to the historians that our Nation’s being lead by a fraud, on this topic or some other…. Can we discuss his college records?…

    Comment by Ted B. (Charging Rhino) — August 3, 2009 @ 10:02 am - August 3, 2009

  13. Oh, and I don’t think we look anymore foolish than the a-holes who had to forge “fake, but accurate” documents or still believe that “Bush lied” or that Valerie Wilson was a Super Duper triple secret agent exposed by Cheney. Not by a long shot.

    We look EXACTLY as foolish.

    I’ve read a few of the WND articles and it seems clear to me that they’re trying to find out more about him including his transcripts, any articles and/or theses he’s written. What’s so damn wrong with that?

    If it were just about missing articles and thesis, fine. But that quest is in the fringe of the greater purpose of the site. Goggle WND and almost all the hits will be about the birth question. They are not going to court after court trying to procure the release of his Occidental records and writings. Are they are spending tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars erecting billboards saying “Where’s Your Thesis”. The answer would be “No”. They are not trying to get his certificate because there is maybe something embarrassing on it, they are determined to prove that Obama is not a natural born citizen, and therefore can not be President. Once again you CAN’T get a short form saying you were born in Hawaii if you haven’t proved to the state that you were born in Hawaii. The Republican Governor has said she has seen the long form and it is legit. There is no proof that Obama or his mother was anywhere other than Hawaii. This whole this stinks of the worst kind of politics, the same kind played against Palin. It is wrong for the Democrats to do it, and it is wrong for the Republicans to participate, especially when you know that the MSM will be that much more critical since they don’t favor Conservatives at all. They will relish using this to make the whole party look even more manic than you already look. Is this something William F Buckley would endorse. He can’t answer, but twenty to one he would advise that no one touch this with a twenty foot pole. This stupid and foolish politics – Period.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — August 3, 2009 @ 10:41 am - August 3, 2009

  14. Sonic obamy’s paternal grandmother said he was born in nairobi. why not release the forms? Considering obumer at several points in his life was a dual citizen, where is the evidence that he gave up his other citizenship? the fact the he not produced the documents and go to considerable effort to not do so is rather troubling.

    Comment by cubanbob — August 3, 2009 @ 11:14 am - August 3, 2009

  15. Funny how the MSM and its willing allies on the left threw every half-assed charge and accusation against Bush and his administration – with NO evidence whatsoever – and people smiled and nodded, but when it comes to a simple piece of paper, the left goes completely bonkers and starts the name-calling.

    Just saying.

    Regards,
    Peter H.

    Comment by Peter Hughes — August 3, 2009 @ 11:54 am - August 3, 2009

  16. I put it this way; since Andrew Sullivan, a paid Obama blogger at an Obama-dominated mainstream media outlet can be demanding Trig Palin’s birth certificate, medical records, DNA, and so forth “just to answer the questions”, the least Obama can do is provide his own.

    Or, put bluntly, since Barack Obama demands Trig Palin’s information, Barack Obama should be willing to provide his own equivalent.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — August 3, 2009 @ 11:58 am - August 3, 2009

  17. As I said, the people going apeshit about this kerfuffle are the ones who look EXACTLY as foolish.

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — August 3, 2009 @ 12:42 pm - August 3, 2009

  18. Sonic obamy’s paternal grandmother said he was born in nairobi. why not release the forms?

    Hmmm. There’s a few problems with this evidence. Lets see. No one has verified the validity of that affidavit. All the links to audio of the actual interview are dead ends (one took me to an operational site, but after four minutes of commercials for Mataphysical healing, herbal remedies, and Oklahoma tourism, I gave up). .The Affidavit, if legit, contains hearsay, second person testimony. Not very strong in a court of law. Even if the affidavit is real, you’re dealing with language translation issues, and it wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility that GramaBoma is simply, what’s the Roger Clemens term, oh, misremembering the birth.

    Why has no one else tried and verified they couldn’t get the Kenyans to release the “real” birth certificate?

    And in case I forgot to mention, the lawyer who is named on the affidavit has been reprimanded for legal malpractice. He’s a 9/11 truther and in October 2004, Berg filed Rodriguez v. Bush, accusing the President of the United States and 155 other parties of complicity in the 9/11 attacks. If this is the kind of lawyers you and the Republican party want to be associated with – fine. But don’t come crying to me about how horrible it is that the MSM is trying to associate this netball to the Republicans during the next election.

    Now I have to ask. Where does this notion that Obama, a natural born citizen, would not be eligible to be President due to dual citizenship come from. What is the legal standing on this come from? That’s not in the Constitution, nor is a definition of what a “natural born citizen” btw. There’s supposition, as found here, but no supposition, no case law, no constitutional amendment, states that dual citizenship nulifies “natural born” status. The fourteenth amendment CLEARLY states: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States…”. Seems very clear to me. And, from the adoption of the fourteenth amendment on, the enforcement of that law, from the time it was enacted to now, has not favored this new enlightened interpretation. Are we going to be like liberals now and start doing the “what they really meant was…” dance? Seems like the birther movement is just throwing crap at the wall, hoping something sticks.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — August 3, 2009 @ 1:26 pm - August 3, 2009

  19. Ooops: should have read:

    There’s supposition, as found here, but no case law, no constitutional amendment states that dual citizenship nulifies “natural born” status.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — August 3, 2009 @ 1:33 pm - August 3, 2009

  20. The way I see it, as I’ve said before, we have a president whom we know next to nothing about and fought hard to prevent anybody from finding out. Is this the standard for future presidents now? All we have is his word.

    ….. and a verified copy of his legal and binding birth certificate.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — August 3, 2009 @ 1:47 pm - August 3, 2009

  21. Oh, and NDT, great response. They can be stupid and look like idiots…. so… er… so can we! That’s a slogan that will convince me and others to vote for Republicans again.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — August 3, 2009 @ 2:21 pm - August 3, 2009

  22. I don’t know what regs were in place when Obama was born, but currently, if you are born abroad but one parent is a US Citizen who has lived in the US, you you can be considered an American. So if was born in Hawaii or Nigeria, his American mom makes him American. At least now. As I say, I don’t know the older laws.

    But it still galls me that we can’t see the birth certificate itself…largely because if this were a Republican prez with similar issues and he refused to release the doc, it’s be front page news every day.

    Comment by EssEm — August 3, 2009 @ 5:40 pm - August 3, 2009

  23. Bad fast typing. “It’D” be front page news

    Comment by EssEm — August 3, 2009 @ 5:41 pm - August 3, 2009

  24. When will Republicans learn the difference between losing and winning issues? Freedom? Liberty? 2nd Amendment? Fiscal responsibility? WINNING ISSUES! Birth Certificates, Running Moderates, Race, Gay Marriage, Abortion? LOSING ISSUES! If it’s one thing this president had which W didn’t, it’s a politicians instinct.

    Comment by Tim — August 3, 2009 @ 6:18 pm - August 3, 2009

  25. If it’s one thing this president had which W didn’t, it’s a politicians instinct.

    That’s a joke, right? Did you see the press conference on health care? What were people talking about after the speech? Not health care, but this brilliant politicians flapping jaw comments concerning an arrest in Cambridge, comments that angered one of the main Democratic constituencies, the Police unions. He hasn’t convinced anyone outside his base that cap and trade of CO2 will be a good thing, and his promises to hold down spending have been shown as completely empty promises. I know, I know, he inherited a bunch of problems from the previous administration (as every president before him has), but so far he hasn’t shown himself to be a politician that can sway anyone to his side. And I know that it’s only been six months, but still, for a “brilliant” politician, this is not the hope and change we thought we’d see….

    Well, actually, it’s pretty much what many of us expected.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — August 3, 2009 @ 7:04 pm - August 3, 2009

  26. Oh, and NDT, great response. They can be stupid and look like idiots…. so… er… so can we! That’s a slogan that will convince me and others to vote for Republicans again.

    (shrug) Your choice, Sonic; you can pick the side who insists that Sarah Palin provide full medical documentation and proof that Trig Palin is her child, or you can pick the side who says that, if Obama wants that, he should provide his own first.

    Furthermore, what exactly should lead us to believe that you could be convinced to vote for Republicans anyway, when all you’ve ever done is attack them? If it isn’t birthers, it’s something else; that makes it pretty obvious that you’re just looking for rationalizations for what you’ve already decided to do anyway.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — August 3, 2009 @ 7:31 pm - August 3, 2009

  27. Meanwhile, I leave you with this fun fact; fully 35% of Obama Party members believe George W. Bush let 9/11 happen.

    In short, there are more Obama Party Truthers than there are Republican birthers. Add to that the fact that the Obama Party is still out there pushing the meme that Sarah Palin faked her pregnancy and demanding her complete medical records and documentation while insisting that Obama doesn’t have to provide any of the above, and the point becomes more and more clear just who’s playing who here.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — August 3, 2009 @ 7:36 pm - August 3, 2009

  28. ha birthers here’s your “queen”

    http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/orly-taitz-vs-david-shuster.php?ref=fpb

    Ha!!!

    Comment by gillie — August 3, 2009 @ 8:48 pm - August 3, 2009

  29. NDT, this is not an either / or Boolean choice, both sides are idiots. You know damned well that I’ve ridiculed the Triggers. Maybe not as fiercely. But that’s because i expect this kind of inanity from the left. I am more fierce in my fight against the birthers here is because I am a Libertarian Conservative, and it pains me to watch the C side of the equation needlessly run like Lemmings off the proverbial cliff.

    Furthermore, what exactly should lead us to believe that you could be convinced to vote for Republicans anyway, when all you’ve ever done is attack them? If it isn’t birthers, it’s something else; that makes it pretty obvious that you’re just looking for rationalizations for what you’ve already decided to do anyway.

    No, what I’m doing and what I did is what you and other loyalists should have done four years ago – don’t vote for your party if you think they’re f’ing up. I didn’t vote for they in 2004 and 2006 because it was obvious they had no desire to cut back spending. So far, Republicans have, at least in California anyway, shown that they can be stern on the “no new taxes” line of politics. But so was Bush. No change there. What I haven’t seen is the political will to cut and gut government administration and wasteful spending, even if it means decreasing funds flowing into their districts. In July 28 republicans voted to keep wasting money on the boondoggle that is the F-22 fighter, a plane even the Air Force says it does not want! . That fact should make this vote a no-brainer. I’ll vote for which ever party convinces me they are really serious about fiscal responsibility, which means I likely won’t be voting for either party in 2010.

    PS. 28 % of Republicans think Obama is not a citizen. That’ makes me feel better how?

    Comment by Sonicfrog — August 3, 2009 @ 9:14 pm - August 3, 2009

  30. Meanwhile, I leave you with this fun fact; fully 35% of Obama Party members believe George W. Bush let 9/11 happen.

    PS. We’re almost as nutty as the Democrats. That’s supposed to make me feel beet how? Why is it I feel like am the only one fighting for integrity of the Republican party, a party I don’t even belong to?

    Comment by Sonicfrog — August 3, 2009 @ 10:12 pm - August 3, 2009

  31. but, sonic, where is the GOP leadership buying into this? Where are elected Republicans saying Obama is not a citizen? Seems at least our leadership and elected officials are concerned with the integrity of the party.

    Don’t let attempts by left-wing bloggers to define the party distract you. ‘Cause that’s what they’re trying to do, to turn focus away from Obama’s actions as president.

    Yeah, maybe a few rank-and-file Republicans buy into this nonsense, but the party establishment is not pushing these theories. It’s just left-wingers who want us to think they are.

    Comment by GayPatriotWest — August 3, 2009 @ 10:32 pm - August 3, 2009

  32. Also, the hilarity of this comes from the whole “integrity of the party” thing.

    Do you think, Sonic, that I really CARE what the Kos Kidz and the puppet idiots like gillie think? They’re going to call me a “birther” regardless of what I say because they’re bigots. As a result, I feel no need to hold back, and in fact will be perfectly willing to state that gillie, Kos, and the entire Obama Party are hypocrites because they demand of Trig and Sarah Palin what they insist is hysterical stupidity for Obama.

    The fact is this; Obama has buried his past, and refuses to provide the same documentation that he and his shrieking harpies are demanding of others. That makes him a hypocrite and a liar regardless of what is on those documents. End of story.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — August 4, 2009 @ 12:37 am - August 4, 2009

  33. Yes, some Republicans have denounced this thing. I give all the credit in the world to Jon Boehner and Michael Steele for their firm position on this issue. Boehner did hesitate to denounce at first blush, but I think he understands the distraction and potential disaster this could become. Yet the voices of the party are running with it. I would be very very impressed if these same leaders would kindly tell Rush, Beck, Levin, Hannity and the others to kindly stop trying to use this to gin up support, and, unlike the last Steele vs Rush kerfuffle, they don’t back down. As NDT is so fond of pointing out, you can’t have credibility if the leaders say one thing yet the media arm say another (Sully and the Trigger idiocy). I wouldn’t expect the “voices” to comply, they have every right to say what-ever they want. But I’m looking for the leaders of the party to stand up to the voices, and tell them that this whole thing is not conservative in any way.

    We all know, in politics perception is half of the game (unless you a Democrat, then it’s ALL of the game). Sooner or later, this party as a whole must decisively decide if they are going to be a party of serious issues, or if they’re going to needlessly give the left a locker full of ammo to use against them.

    When you give answers such as Congressman John Campbell gave to Chris Mathews, “as far as I know” he’s a citizen, that gives the perception that he’s leaving wiggle room, because he doesn’t want to close the door on it. ILC gave that answer too, and it saddened me. That’s the kind of weasel answer that Clinton was a master at. It’s not too far from “it all depends on what the definition of ‘is’ is”. I want this party to be absolutely clear that they don’t buy this stuff. I want this party to show that they are not just like the worse aspect of the modern Democratic movement. Do they have the spine to take on the very popular voices who peddle this stuff? We’ll see.

    PS. And no NDT, I don’t care what the tweaker KOS Krowd thinks of you, but I do care what the independent and undecided voters think of the party. If they think you’re a bunch of loons because you didn’t absolutely denounce and kill any association with this whole poisonous thing, don’t come back bitching after you’ve lost another round of elections because those voters think you’re nuts.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — August 4, 2009 @ 1:19 am - August 4, 2009

  34. Don’t let attempts by left-wing bloggers to define the party distract you. ‘Cause that’s what they’re trying to do, to turn focus away from Obama’s actions as president.

    Which is exactly why I say those frothing at the mouth, like Sonic here, are the real kooks.

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — August 4, 2009 @ 1:50 am - August 4, 2009

  35. It is an honesty issue. He refuses to release school records, thesis, law review articles, passport, and his long form BC. He holds the highest office in the land and works for us, the people. It speaks to his level of honesty and commitment to the people to hide, seal or refuse to provide any such documentation.

    Everyone knows that if any one of us wanted to apply for a higher position we would have to provide a copy of our SS card to prove we could work in the US legally. Our college transcripts and records any licenses or board certifications if desired by an employer, references etc…

    We would not be hired if we refused such items. Therefore, the POTUS should also be required to provide such documentation.

    It is asinine to think that we don’t require these documents prior to being placed on a ticket for general election and it is even more asinine to think that Obama would rather fight and hide his information than simply provide it to his “employer”, us.

    In my opinion, I believe that Obama was indeed most likely born in the US and meets requirements for POTUS. However, I believe the real issue is honesty. I do not find it unreasonable for any American citizen to require the proper documentation needed for our highest office.

    Comment by Firelight — August 4, 2009 @ 9:59 am - August 4, 2009

  36. In my opinion, I believe that Obama was indeed most likely born in the US and meets requirements for POTUS. However, I believe the real issue is honesty. I do not find it unreasonable for any American citizen to require the proper documentation needed for our highest office.

    “In my opinion”, “indeed most likely born”. Again another comment with the weaselly Clintonesque language. Again, I challenge an answer to this question: Why is THE LEGAL AND RECOGNIZED PROOF OF NATIVE BIRTH ISSUED BY THE STATE OF HAWAII not proof enough?

    Don’t let attempts by left-wing bloggers to define the party distract you. ‘Cause that’s what they’re trying to do, to turn focus away from Obama’s actions as president.

    Which is exactly why I say those frothing at the mouth, like Sonic here, are the real kooks.

    TGC, you’ve missed the whole point completely. I want the Republican party to be a more viable party. Once again, I’ll spell it out for you. Politics is nothing if not war. Lets say you and a bunch of friends are in an arm and are in a do or die battle with the enemy. A smaller group within your army has been given these really cool high tech grenades that are supposed to do great damage to the enemy. So, even though these weapons are not “officially” sanctioned by those higher in command, you figure, what the hell, I’ll use them. So you lob them over, but because they are not actually high quality weapons, they don’t go off or much damage. But, the big problem is, you enemy is used to using these weapons all the time, and proceeds to arm them and throw them right back at you, and this time they do much more damage to you than they did to the enemy. The ONLY sure way to not get hurt by these weapons, is NOT to use them.

    What I want from the leaders of the party is to firmly and completely denounce this conspiracy for the fraud that it is and separate the Republican party from this nonsense, which will help clear the table so the party can focus on the many flaws of Obama’s current policy tack. I don’t understand why that is so hard to understand.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — August 4, 2009 @ 1:24 pm - August 4, 2009

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