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Left-wing Pundits Continue to Slur Opposition to Obama’s Policies

August 9, 2009 by GayPatriotWest

The prejudice that all too many on the left (including some of their most educated and supposedly most literate pundits) harbor towards conservatives, the condescension they express toward any who dare to express their opposition publicly to President Obama’s policies has become increasingly manifest in the past week.

But, we were already seeing signs of such animosity during the presidential campaign when some, including at least one prominent liberal columnist, suggested racism was the only reason people might oppose Barack Obama, as if his far-left voting record had nothing to do with our concerns about the way the Democrat might govern.

They have resorted to use a term with sexual references to describe our rallies.  They see their task not to describe or debate but to denigrate, not to consider, but to condemn.  If they applied the same standard they use to trash the Tea Parties (and associated protests) to one-time community organizer Barack Obama’s first professional activists as well as his presidential campaign as well as the myriad protests against George W. Bush and his polices in the previous eight years, they too would be calling such efforts Astroturf.   And these efforts had far more professional organizing and far fewer spontaneous demonstrations than do the current spate of protests.

Taking issue with former California Democratic Party Chairman BIll Press’s smear of those protesting the President’s policies as “crazy . . . partisan zeealots,” Sally Zelikovsky details how left-wing groups have been organizing people to speak out in favor of the President’s health care overhaul, doing exactly the sorts of things Press finds repugnant in his description of the efforts to oppose said overhaul.

So, if left-wing groups organize to oppose George W. Bush and his policies and support his successor and his, it’s grassroots, but if conservative, Republican and independent groups (and individuals) organize in the same manner, but for the opposite effect, it’s astroturf.

Finally, Zelikovsky takes issue with the slur Press uses to define the activist opposition to Obama:

I’d like to extend Bill an invitation to come to my home and explain to my children what a “tea bagger” is and how he can possibly include in that definition a person like their mother…an educated, heterosexual, Jewish, stay-at-home mom who is at the forefront of the tea party movement in the Bay Area.  Once again, the press is debasing the tone of debate in America and giving parents across the nation cause to consider cancelling their subscriptions to a media that persists in using such odious and reprehensible verbiage to malign the millions who feel their representatives are not listening.

(H/t: Reader Juju.)

Filed Under: Hysteria on the Left, Liberal Hypocrisy, Liberal Intolerance, Tea Party

Comments

  1. ThatGayConservative says

    August 9, 2009 at 4:47 pm - August 9, 2009

    In other words “if liberals were honest….”

  2. Peter Hughes says

    August 9, 2009 at 4:56 pm - August 9, 2009

    #1 – “Honest liberal” is as big an oxymoron as “intelligent moonbat.”

    Regards,
    Peter H.

  3. MFS says

    August 9, 2009 at 5:33 pm - August 9, 2009

    The polls have been moving slowly, but consistently to the side of the Obama skeptics. Talk of racism and insurance company ‘rent-a-mobs’ are just what they appear – the death rattle of a bankrupt policy point.

    My prediction: Congress will drag this out until later in the Fall, deliver a milquetoast, do-nothing version of ‘reform’ and then slink home and declare victory.

    It’s the most amusing political theater in years.

    Best wishes,
    -MFS

  4. Ashpenaz says

    August 9, 2009 at 7:05 pm - August 9, 2009

    I don’t think Congress will do nothing. I think they will pass a law declaring “Sickness is bad.” Then, they will offer coupons for Long John Silvers to those who have reported the most neighbors to Obama’s “fishy” hotline. Then, they will declare the problem solved forever and ever.

  5. gillie says

    August 9, 2009 at 7:06 pm - August 9, 2009

    Astroturfing Definition:
    Astroturfing may be undertaken by an individual pushing a personal agenda or highly organized professional groups with financial backing from large corporations, non-profits, or activist organizations. Very often the efforts are conducted by political consultants who also specialize in opposition research”
    See Rick Scott, Dick Army, Ralph Reed, & Tim Phillips directions and how they took over the teabags list server to distribute strategy, finance and lead the health care protests.
    Its amazing how Rick Scott happened to have an email of town hall sites on a nice spreadsheet isn’t it? Amazing how his hands’s keep turning up in these protests.
    But instead of looking into this and see how your “movement” is being used, you instead play your usual victim card and talk about how unfair it all is.

    GPW have you even looked into this? Does it give you pause? Or don’t you care that you are being used by a guy who has made millions defrauding our current system?

  6. GoCon says

    August 9, 2009 at 7:15 pm - August 9, 2009

    It would be much more interesting political theater if it wasn’t so personal. To be slandered by the President of the United States of America for daring to have your voices heard in opposition is treachery. He is the President of the People. He has no right!

    It is moving past the stage of Healthcare Reform and into the realm of philosophy and the Constitution. Passions are high in the citizenry. The tone from this President and Congress has already led to violence, with more to come, I suspect.

    This is dangerous territory we are entering and if one side doesn’t back down soon there could be a Constitutional crisis. It would appear that the Administration, by upping the ante over the past week is raising the stakes.

    For me this is a matter that will no longer allow me to stand by the wayside. I have never been politically active, but now is the time to call the President’s bluff. I am a Doctor, a Husband, Father and now, I am one of the Mob!

    Thank you Mr. President

  7. GoCon says

    August 9, 2009 at 7:18 pm - August 9, 2009

    gillie

    He is not using us, we are using him….

  8. SoCalRobert says

    August 9, 2009 at 7:31 pm - August 9, 2009

    Who the hell is Rick Scott? Did I miss the memo?

    gillie – please ‘splain to me why, during the Bush years, dissent was the highest form of patriotism. Yet now, people who question the effort by Congress and Obama to ram through a fundamental change in our country are called crazy partisan zealots?

    I don’t believe the astroturfing story but, if true, so what? Are private citizens now forbidden to organize in opposition to government intrusion? Is it to be that only government employee unions and tax-funded groups like ACORN can petition our esteemed “representatives”?

    As far as your list of opposition researchers… is there no one you can think of on the Democratic side who does this? No one?

  9. ILoveCapitalism says

    August 9, 2009 at 7:36 pm - August 9, 2009

    Are private citizens now forbidden to organize in opposition to government intrusion?

    As someone else pointed out: Professionally organizing private citizens for or against government initiatives is…. community organizing!

  10. North Dallas Thirty says

    August 9, 2009 at 7:38 pm - August 9, 2009

    People like gillie are hilarious as they whine about “astroturfing” while their goose-stepping paid Obama goons in matching shirts and with pre-printed signs try to shove themselves in front of the CNN cameras and beat up on and use racial slurs on people who dare disagree with Obama.

    And do you know what’s even funnier, gillie? Watching puppets like you scream about “corruption” when Obama Party members like you cheat on their taxes.

  11. SoCalRobert says

    August 9, 2009 at 7:39 pm - August 9, 2009

    ILC – that’s true. Obama should be proud that community organizing has gone mainstream.

    gillie – comments about this?

    http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/08/painting-protestors-as-partisan-mobs-with-lies-about-health-reform-democrats-rally-their-own-town-hall-activists.html

  12. V the K says

    August 9, 2009 at 7:59 pm - August 9, 2009

    Who the hell is Rick Scott? Did I miss the memo?

    Another citizen who went up against Dear Leader and is now the target of massive, coordinated character assassination and two-minutes hate by the left; see also, Joe the Plumber, Glenn Beck, Frank Ricci.

  13. MFS says

    August 9, 2009 at 8:00 pm - August 9, 2009

    Mary Ham *demolishes* the "Astroturf" carard at the Weekly Standard blog.

    “When the ‘manufactured’ outrage the Left is trying to demonize lines up so inconveniently with public polling, it’s sometimes necessary to create evidence for the ‘manufactured’ storyline…”

    Read it the whole thing. You’ll laugh at loud at their desperation.

    And to bring us back on point: if you had a brilliant idea on how to improve health coverage for all while reducing costs and increasing security, wouldn’t you want to, I dunno, talk about *that* instead of smearing your opponents as dopes and racsists?

    Am I missing something? They hold all the cards and yet they’re reeling.

    Pathetic.

    Best wishes,
    -MFS

  14. ILoveCapitalism says

    August 9, 2009 at 8:26 pm - August 9, 2009

    They hold all the cards and yet they’re reeling.

    That’s just it. The Democrats could pass a bill anytime they want. But they know it’s wrong. They need some kind of moral permission or “cover” from Middle America, and they are both furious and terrified because Middle America isn’t giving it.

  15. North Dallas Thirty says

    August 9, 2009 at 9:08 pm - August 9, 2009

    I also am beginning to think that we’re seeing the first time in Barack Obama’s life where he’s ever been told “No”.

    Liberals did not do society any favors by raising an entire generation of Barack Obamas — self-absorbed, insistent that they are always right, convinced that they can lie with impunity.

  16. The_Livewire says

    August 9, 2009 at 9:25 pm - August 9, 2009

    *yawn* and again, gillie makes accusations w/o links to back them up. At least he’s consistent

  17. gillie says

    August 9, 2009 at 9:32 pm - August 9, 2009

    If you don’t know who Rick Scott is you have not been paying attention.
    He is a former CEO of a corrupt Health Care company who made millions defrauding the current system. He now runs a PAC called “Conservatives For Patients’ Rights” he compiled a list of town halls and has encouraged the type of yellin’ and screamin’ at the town halls.
    He benefited greatly from the current system and wants no changes so he is using concerned citizens.

  18. gillie says

    August 9, 2009 at 9:32 pm - August 9, 2009

    Further – you can dissent all you want. Its a free country. But if you act like a bunch of hatefilled raging lunatics, expect to be called as such.

    What’s hilarious is you all act like a bunch of nutters and then complain when you are dired for your OWN actions.
    What happened to personal responsibility?

  19. The_Livewire says

    August 9, 2009 at 9:43 pm - August 9, 2009

    you mean like providing evidence of your statements gillie?

    *yawn* Oh and just to let you know. Having Walk In clinics and owning a plastics company makes him sooooo beholden to health care interests.

  20. MFS says

    August 9, 2009 at 9:52 pm - August 9, 2009

    Good grief! So, we’re in thrall to a criminal mastermind that no one’s ever heard of? Hahahaha.

    Come on, gillie. I’ve seen you do much better.

    Why don’t you start by explaining why the House proposal is really wonderful. I, for one, would love to hear it.

    Best wishes,
    -MFS

  21. North Dallas Thirty says

    August 9, 2009 at 10:10 pm - August 9, 2009

    Gillie is getting desperate because, one by one, his lies keep unraveling.

    Remember that thing about how “preventative care” was going to save billions?

    Oops.

    “Although different types of preventive care have different effects on spending, the evidence suggests that for most preventive services, expanded utilization leads to higher, not lower, medical spending overall,” Elmendorf wrote. “That result may seem counterintuitive.

    “For example, many observers point to cases in which a simple medical test, if given early enough, can reveal a condition that is treatable at a fraction of the cost of treating that same illness after it has progressed. In such cases, an ounce of prevention improves health and reduces spending — for that individual,” Elmendorf wrote. “But when analyzing the effects of preventive care on total spending for health care, it is important to recognize that doctors do not know beforehand which patients are going to develop costly illnesses. To avert one case of acute illness, it is usually necessary to provide preventive care to many patients, most of whom would not have suffered that illness anyway. … Researchers who have examined the effects of preventive care generally find that the added costs of widespread use of preventive services tend to exceed the savings from averted illness.”

    And from where did that come? Oh, yeah, right, experts in the field, rather than Obama partisans like gillie and Tano.

    Elmendorf cited an article published last year in the New England Journal of Medicine which he said provides a good summary of the available evidence on how preventive care affects costs.

  22. ILoveCapitalism says

    August 9, 2009 at 10:29 pm - August 9, 2009

    So what’s needed is smart, adaptive, case-by-case preventive care. The kind of thing that comes, not from government boards or any other bureaucracy, but from individual doctors maximizing the joint good of their personal practice (profit motive) and their unique, individual patients.

  23. American Elephant says

    August 9, 2009 at 11:20 pm - August 9, 2009

    If you don’t know who Rick Scott is you have not been paying attention.
    He is a former CEO of a corrupt Health Care company who made millions defrauding the current system. He now runs a PAC called “Conservatives For Patients’ Rights”

    More made up shite from “progressive” liars.

    His so-called organization raised somewhere in the range of $5,000, and spent even less. Nobody has ever heard of him. He has not organized anyone. These are simply people from the majority of Americans and the OVERWHELMING 70%+ of Americans who dont want Obamacare.

    They are grasping at straws afraid that their dictatorial dreams are slipping away.

  24. Ashpenaz says

    August 9, 2009 at 11:31 pm - August 9, 2009

    What was that group that organized all those Cindy Sheehan rallies?

  25. ThatGayConservative says

    August 10, 2009 at 12:03 am - August 10, 2009

    he compiled a list of town halls and has encouraged the type of yellin’ and screamin’ at the town halls.

    Citation Needed.

    No, Robert Gibbs and Tano the hifalutin Dumbass don’t count.

  26. Tano says

    August 10, 2009 at 1:12 am - August 10, 2009

    American Elephant,

    You are confusing Rick Scott with someone else – the person who was blamed for the memo with the explicit instructions for disrupting the town halls (forgot his name).
    Scott is well described by the quote that you responded to. Just look it up.

    As for your guess at popular support, its not very good.

    CNN-Opinion Research Poll 7/31-8/3
    ‘”From everything you have heard or read so far, do you favor or oppose Barack Obama’s plan to reform health care?”

    Favor 50
    Oppose 45
    Unsure 5

    TIME poll 7/27-28

    Who do you trust more to develop new health care legislation: President Obama, or, Republicans in Congress?” Options rotated

    Obama 47
    GOP 32
    neither 14
    same 2
    unsure 4

  27. Tano says

    August 10, 2009 at 1:17 am - August 10, 2009

    ThatGayConservative,

    “he compiled a list of town halls and has encouraged the type of yellin’ and screamin’ at the town halls.

    Citation Needed. ”

    What is this “citation needed”? You can’t figure this out? Go to the CPR website for goodness sakes.
    LINK

  28. GayPatriotWest says

    August 10, 2009 at 5:07 am - August 10, 2009

    gillie, did you even read my post? I offer a definition there of astroturfing. Oh, and by the standard you use to smear all those protesting the town halls, it is fair to slam all protests against Bush, in favor of Obama and the latter’s policies as projects sprung from the mind of George Soros.

    That okay with you?

  29. The Livewire says

    August 10, 2009 at 6:43 am - August 10, 2009

    Wow, Tano.

    I see where he has a list of all the scheduled town halls. (Looks like I’ve some calling to do, no town halls in Ohio) But “encouraged the type of yellin’ and screamin’ “, nope, no proof of that. y’all must really be good at half truths and beating the opposition, litterally.

  30. MaryAnn says

    August 10, 2009 at 8:56 am - August 10, 2009

    gillie is pushing the wrong narrative. The guy who’s in charge of all the “Right Wing Mob” activity is Bob Macguffie. Sheesh, get it right.
    LOL

  31. Joe P. says

    August 10, 2009 at 9:00 am - August 10, 2009

    its not just toward conservative, many Dems, or rather ex Dems like myself have gone to these meetings. The latest is Pelosi , Redi and their liberal ilk in the MSM calling average citizens voicing their opinion at town halls as “Unamerican”. This wil lgo over like a lead ballon to an already mad public that didn’t protest but were getting nervous about Obama being a socialist.

    Just the thing to convince them that he and the Dems in Congress are-they act just like Castro. No doubt they are wondering how long before Pelosi demands opposing voices be jailed for making their dissent known.

    Screw you pelosi, you don’t scare us. You should be in a rubber room

  32. heliotrope says

    August 10, 2009 at 9:07 am - August 10, 2009

    Tano has tickled my funny bone. Tano accurately quotes on “finding” of a TIME poll. Here is some more data from that same poll:

    On the details of the plan, respondents remained supportive of many of the rough outlines of the health-reform effort as originally described by President Obama. Sixty-three percent said they would support providing health-care coverage for all Americans, even if the government had to subsidize those who could not afford it. Fifty-six percent said they supported a “public health insurance option” to compete with private plans. Fifty-seven percent support raising taxes on those with annual incomes over $280,000 to pay for the plan. Eighty percent said they would support a bill that required insurance companies to offer coverage to anyone who applies, even those with pre-existing medical conditions. By contrast, a slight plurality of 48% opposed requiring all but the smallest businesses to provide health care, and 56% of Americans opposed taxing employer-provided health care to pay for the cost of covering the nation’s uninsured.

    Obviously, the people polled are willing to take more “free’ health care. You will also note that TIME projects their poll to speak for all Americans.

    So, who did TIME poll to get these “facts”?

    The poll, which was conducted by Abt SRBI, surveyed 1,002 American adults on July 27 and 28. It has a margin of error of plus or minus 3%. Of the polling sample, 23% identified as Republican, 34% identified as Democrat and 32% identified as political independents. Eighty-nine percent of respondents said they were currently covered by some kind of health insurance, and of that group 86% said they were “very” or “somewhat” satisfied with their plan. Only 33% of respondents said they were “very” or “somewhat” worried about losing their coverage in the next year.

    Even polls can be quoted out of context. The people at the tea parties and those speaking out at the rapidly disappearing town hall meetings are more informed and more motivated that the average “Joe” a polling company reaches by phone. I often ask groups to give a show of hands of all those who have ever been contacted for a political poll. Rarely is there anyone who says he has. You would think with all the polling going on by the news media that eventually you would know someone who has been polled.

  33. gillie says

    August 10, 2009 at 10:41 am - August 10, 2009

    speaking of tickling my funny bone
    Heliotrope comes out with this lauger:
    “The people at the tea parties and those speaking out at the rapidly disappearing town hall meetings are more informed and more motivated that the average “Joe””

    In the righty’s minds the people talking about “Obama’s Death Panel” are informed and moving the debate forward!
    God. No wonder you are so far in the minority….
    I can’t wait for 2010!

  34. V the K says

    August 10, 2009 at 10:53 am - August 10, 2009

    Another broken Obama promise, Dear Leader had promised an open debate on health care reform:

    “I’m going to have all the negotiations around a big table. We’ll have doctors and nurses and hospital administrators. Insurance companies, drug companies — they’ll get a seat at the table, they just won’t be able to buy every chair. But what we will do is, we’ll have the negotiations televised on C-SPAN, so that people can see who is making arguments on behalf of their constituents, and who are making arguments on behalf of the drug companies or the insurance companies. And so, that approach, I think is what is going to allow people to stay involved in this process.”

    Instead, we got the usual backroom deal cobbled together by special interest groups.

  35. DoorHold says

    August 10, 2009 at 11:00 am - August 10, 2009

    It’s crackin’ me up that “community organizers” are suddenly ee-e-evil because they are opposing liberal ideas. Yup, everything in opposition to the liberal line of thinking … evil. Yup.

    As for the racist crap, while O. was campaigning I talked (over the Internet) with people all over the world. I was dumbfounded by the number that said America would NEVER elect a black man to be their leader (in most cases such sentiment came from people living in countries that have NEVER elected a black man to be their leader — for what that’s worth). At any rate, it’s a convenient way to side-step talking about the issue at hand, just cry “racist” and you no longer have to defend your agenda (and you don’t even have to bother proving racism).

    It’s the liberal version of Mom’s “Because I said so.”

  36. The Livewire says

    August 10, 2009 at 11:00 am - August 10, 2009

    gillie,

    Just because you choose to ignore documentation on rationing care to the elderly as advocated by members and advisors of the current administration, doesn’t make it less true.

    But hey, you want to keep demonstrating your ignorance in matters of Health Care, knock yourself out.

  37. V the K says

    August 10, 2009 at 11:03 am - August 10, 2009

    Video: Obamacrats and Dear Leader himself make liars out of Tardo and stupidbutt.

    Jacob Hacker, the man who “shopped” this plan to Congress (according to NPR), states unambiguously that his plan — and he should know — is expressly designed to displace private insurance. “It’s not a Trojan horse, it’s right there.”

  38. Gene in Pennsylvania says

    August 10, 2009 at 3:14 pm - August 10, 2009

    The people see how liberal Democrats are all for community organizing and rabble rousing when it is their unions and loud mouth losers doing the chanting. When hard working productive Americans go out to ask questions and try to get non bs answers from their elected officials..we are treated as criminals by the media and our President. Nice going.
    There’s goona be hell to pay in 2010, can’t wait.

  39. ILoveCapitalism says

    August 10, 2009 at 3:51 pm - August 10, 2009

    Unfortunately, Nov. 2010 (really Jan 2011) may be too late. I expect Obamacare to pass. The Democrats do have the votes, after all. I expect that all their big lies (“It’s only a public *option*! If you oppose it you’re raaaayyysist!”) will work in the end, not to bring any Republicans around, but to steel their own nerve.

    After that, we must wait for reality to have its revenge. The plan’s costs will, of course, far exceed anything Obama promised – by trillions. Will the American people turn on it then, and for the first time ever, support an entitlement being *repealed*? Hawaii managed to repeal Keiki Care, that’s a hopeful sign. But I’m not counting on it.

  40. heliotrope says

    August 10, 2009 at 4:45 pm - August 10, 2009

    #34 gillie didn’t repeat my full quote, which I repeat here: “The people at the tea parties and those speaking out at the rapidly disappearing town hall meetings are more informed and more motivated that the average “Joe” a polling company reaches by phone.”

    I am disappointed that gillie would try such a sloppy bit of ham-handed trickery. gillie also says the following:

    In the righty’s minds the people talking about “Obama’s Death Panel” are informed and moving the debate forward!

    While the bill doesn’t refer to the bureaucrats who will decide whether a person should receive special health care as “Obama’s Death Panel” you can find the panel in Section 1233 of the bill.

    gillie must have some special meaning when he talks about “moving the debate forward.” To my knowledge, there has been no debate. There were no open Congressional hearings televised on CSPAN. The staff of my Congressman is nearly ignorant concerning the details in the bill. They try to reassure me that I have nothing to fear. But when I read sections of the bill to them, they ramble on about amendments, not the final bill, reconciliation, etc. When I ask about openness and transparency, they tell me that Obama and the Democrats have been totally open and transparent.

    So, you see, gillie ……. you and your crowd of Obots do not want to “move the debate forward.” Your game is crush the opposition and ram the bill through.

    “Moving the debate forward” means that points are made, settled and scored. It is a game of wins and loses just like a set of tennis.

    But you and your clan of stonewallers are not the slightest bit interested in debate, let alone moving a debate forward.

    The truth is, gillie, your side has the votes to take this whole bill for a touch down. You do not need a single Republican vote in either house. If you are so certain that this secret concoction of snake oil is just the right medicine to cure health care in the United States, why don’t you just pass the stinker? You will get Susan Collins and a few RINOs as it is and you can use them as “bi-partisan” cover.

    The fact is, you people don’t have the guts to take the responsibility of your “convictions.”

    Thanks for trying to mess up my quote. It just proves that people who do imbecilic things may be trying to operate above their ability level. There was a time when the eugenics crowd would have sterilized people who couldn’t think straight. Maybe sometime soon the government panel will decide that men with AIDS who keep trying to procreate with other men are dead enders and not worth spending limited medical funds on. Who knows? Certainly, the potential is there in this bill.

  41. ThatGayConservative says

    August 10, 2009 at 5:13 pm - August 10, 2009

    ThatGayConservative,

    “he compiled a list of town halls and has encouraged the type of yellin’ and screamin’ at the town halls.

    What is this “citation needed”? You can’t figure this out? Go to the CPR website for goodness sakes.
    LINK

    As you recall, I copied over from their page to one of the threads here. There was NOTHING indicating that he encouraged yelling and screaming. There’s not even anything on the Facebook page about that.

    Tano, YOU sir (and I use that loosely) are a lying sonofabitch of the worse kind. You can’t even tell a good lie. How F’d up is that?

    And if Bruce or Dan want to strike me down for that, so be it.

  42. Peter Hughes says

    August 10, 2009 at 6:09 pm - August 10, 2009

    Looks like tano and gillie are, once again, pwned.

    Some things never change.

    Regards,
    Peter H.

  43. V the K says

    August 10, 2009 at 6:10 pm - August 10, 2009

    It occurs to me, that if the mandatory “end of life” counseling is no big deal, then dropping it from the legislation should be no big deal either, right?

    Why are the Obamacrats determined to keep it in? It would be an interesting question to have the answer to.

  44. ThatGayConservative says

    August 10, 2009 at 7:20 pm - August 10, 2009

    Tano, YOU sir (and I use that loosely) are a lying sonofabitch of the worse kind.

    After all, Pete, Nancy Pelosi says so on her website.

  45. Louise B says

    August 10, 2009 at 8:30 pm - August 10, 2009

    Heard a great comment on the radio today: “The only health care system that’s broken is the one where you get something for nothing paid.”

    I have a question. I hear a lot about how smokers and obese people will be told to shape up their lifestyles or they could be denied care because they didn’t take care of their bodies (ie preventive care.) I’ve also heard rumblings about sky divers and preventive care, but I’ve heard nothing about HIV, which could be prevented the same way smokers and obese people can prevent their problems. And then I wondered. Many studies show that the healthiest people are married and religious. Will these life style choices be promoted under the plan as a form of preventive care? Why not? And who’s to say the law wouldn’t be revised further down the road? Once the government has the right to determine your care based on your lifestyle choices, just where do you think the line will be drawn?

  46. Dave B says

    August 11, 2009 at 4:05 am - August 11, 2009

    I think a lot of citizens don’t understand what the “shout downs” are about. The “shout downs” are a way of letting the congressmen know that we already know they’re full of sh.t and are cognizant of the fact they use talking points in an effort to convince everyone else to do something they are not willing to do. It has nothing to do with whether or not we feel we need health care reform.

  47. ThatGayConservative says

    August 11, 2009 at 4:15 am - August 11, 2009

    The “shout downs” are a way of letting the congressmen know that we already know they’re full of sh.t and are cognizant of the fact they use talking points in an effort to convince everyone else to do something they are not willing to do.

    Exactly. And in the case of Kathy Castor’s event in TPA, the people, who were being locked out, were demanding to participate.

  48. Tano says

    August 12, 2009 at 1:24 am - August 12, 2009

    I hear a lot about how smokers and obese people will be told to shape up ‘their lifestyles or they could be denied care ”

    Another lie. Where do you get this stuff?

    “I’ve also heard rumblings about sky divers and preventive care, ”

    Ahhh rumblings!
    Dont you have the BS meter that the good lord gave you? Is it broken or something?

    “Once the government has the right to determine your care based on your lifestyle choices, just where do you think the line will be drawn?”

    Except that the wont, except in the heated fantasies of the rumblings that you hear.
    Do you not understand that the whole motivation of these efforts is to (finally) achieve guaranteed universal care? THe point is not to find ways to deny care. THat is what private health insurance specializes in, and that is precisely what these proposals will stop.

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