Wow, Tano. You’ve really outdone yourself with this one. Just so I’m clear: my reference to Obama’s continuing program to collect information about “deluded propagandists” makes me a “deluded propagandist.” Is that pretty much it?

Or is it just your objection to me calling it a “snitch list?” If so, would you be willing to help me come up with a better name for it? Here’s the deal–I’ll call it by the same name that you honestly would have given to the program described below.

George W. Bush, facing mounting domestic opposition to the War in Iraq, begins encountering demonstrations at every public event he attends and he notices that the anti-war protesters are all carrying signs and banners with statements like, “9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB,” “NO WAR FOR OIL,” “BUSH HAS MURDERED MILLIONS OF IRAQI CIVILIANS,” “BUSH LIED, KIDS DIED,” “NO WMDS,” and the like. Bush publicly announces that in order to clear up all of the misinformation and lies being spread about the war and the reasons the US went to war, he is setting up a website and e-mail address devoted specifically to receiving information from citizens about “fishy” and erroneous statements and slogans being spread about the War in Iraq. The website has the following statement: “There is a lot of disinformation about the War in Iraq out there. Since we can’t keep track of all of them here at the White House, we’re asking for your help.”

What would YOU call the program described above, Tano? Give it a shot. “The White House Wartime Public Outreach Plan For The Children”? “The White House War On Terror Education Initiative”? How about “Dear Georgie”? Just give me the first TRUTHFUL answer you’ve ever typed on this blog and tell me what you would have called the program I described, and that’s what I’ll call Obama’s program. Deal?

Actually, no.

For example, you lied and said that the uninsured go to emergency rooms at a higher rate than anyone else, when the facts instead indicate that those on government health insurance do.

For example, you lied and said that preventative care always lowers costs, when the facts indicate that in the vast majority of cases, preventative care raises, rather than lowers, costs.

For example, you lied and said that the health care plan your Obama was proposing would bend the cost curve downward, when in fact the CBO proved definitively that it would do the opposite and actually RAISE it.

For example, you lied and said that no one was even talking about or considering single-payer, when in fact a single-payer bill has been guaranteed a vote in the House.

For example, you lied and said that the AARP had approved Obama’s health plan, which they did not, and that surgeons were routinely removing tonsils and other body parts unnecessarily, when in fact they were not.

In short, Tano, you repeat nothing but Obama talking points and run like hell when confronted with real, live, referenceable facts.

Senior citizens are not stupid. They recognize two things — one, that they have had money taken from every single paycheck they have ever received for the past forty years in exchange for the promise that they would receive health care services, and two, that Obama is now saying he’s going to cut those services so he can take the money they’ve already paid and give it to other people instead.

What I think several of them also realize is that the more of them that die, the more that Obama is benefited, because they were the age group that consistently voted against him. They also realize that he considers them racist, that his advisors consider them “low productivity”, and that gay liberals like yourself openly talk about how you can’t wait for them to die off so you can implement your “progressive agenda”.

The “snitch list”!! Ha. Yeah dude, how do you think we will figure out who to send to the reeducation camps?

I actually wrote, what is common knowledge in most places, that Obama certainly did say he was for single payer – IF we could start from scratch and build an entirely new system. BUT, he continued, in the very next sentence, since we can’t start from scratch, I do not support a single payer system – in the real world.

Anyone with an ounce of interest in understanding reality has figured this out long ago. But those with an absolute derangement about the guy still try to pretend that this is some proof of great deception or something…

After blaming “third-party groups for official White House e-mails that have been sent to people who never signed up for them over the weekend, Obama’s media director is now on the official White House blog attempting to “clear up” the confusion regarding the Administration’s e-mail practices. Naturally, he points the finger at “defenders of the status quo” (= conservatives) for “fear-mongering” and “sinister conspiracy theories” even while acknowledging the problems with the Administration’s online practices. And the snitching program is still a go–it’s just being “consolidated” with Obama’s “reality check” propaganda site. Here’s a quote from:

“An ironic development is that the launch of an online program meant to provide facts about health insurance reform has itself become the target of fear-mongering and online rumors that are the tactics of choice for the defenders of the status quo,” he wrote. “Despite reports by some bloggers and others in the media that have invoked a variety of sinister conspiracy theories, more people signed up for updates last week than during the entire month of July.”

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/18/white-house-blames-e-mail-controversy-sinister-conspiracy-theories/

So, to review, they don’t have any idea who sent the unsolicited e-mails, they are continuing to keep tabs on citizens who disagree with the Administration’s policies, and any concerns about the practices are the result of right-wing fear-mongering and fabricated conspiracy theories.

Glad they cleared that up.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/17/eveningnews/main5247916.shtml

Allow me to interpret this: We’re the mainstream. Tardo, torpidprime, and crosseyednutlicker are the fringe extremists.

You have shown an inability to accept there are viewpoints other than your own, slinking away when challenged to back up anything you say with documentation.

A fool may beleive that the moon is made of green cheese, or that Obama has never said he’s for single payer, but neither of these things is true, no matter how many time the fool says it.

I am not claiming to be smarter than any of you here, but I think it fair to say that my comments show that I have thought through these issues as much as most of you have, and, for whatever reason, I seem able to articulate those views without the need to melt down and spew barrages of childish insults, like Sean above, just for an example.

So, are you guys in any sense any better than your opponents when it comes to extending to your opponents the minimal level of respect entailed in accepting their sincerity? Not really. And so that kinda undercuts your entire argument.

“And very deluded as to the reality of the issue.

I think the rightwing propagandists have done a very effective job scaring the living sh*t out of people who seem to rely on them for all their information.”

Yeah, okay. Tell me something, Tonto. When it rains, do you find yourself gasping and choking on water from having your nose so high in the air?

P.S. Didn’t we hang or shoot a good majority of the people who had attitudes like this after WW2. I think they were called Nazis, or something like that. They thought they were the only ones who were smart enough, and pure enough, to understand the world, too.

It is a fudge to keep up with this notion that “53% of Americans voted for Obama” because if you did the sums correctly you will find that combined with the non-turn out more did not vote for Obama than those who did vote.

And let’s not forget the Snitch List. WTF kind of “leader” asks people to report others who are “lying” and has to create (yet another) piss & moan site to address said “lies”? A crime boss maybe?

Tano, you are a useless, pathetic little marionette and NO ONE is buying it. You and the scumbags causing you to clownishly flop about as they pull your strings had every intention of passing this assault on individual freedom in a few weeks with no questions asked. But when people started asking questions, the liberals did what they always do–tried to shove them aside, expressing shock and indignation at the very idea of being questioned by the ignorant masses. Well, they had finally had enough of it and they rightfully stood up and reminded their representatives who works for whom. Any disruption, chaos, or madness is the fault of your party alone. The chaos NEVER kept your party from getting out the truth–your party’s vile attempts to conceal the truth led to the chaos. Not the other way around. So please take your advice about how the protesters can best get their legitimate concerns addressed and CRAM IT.

Wake up, Tano. YOU are with the bad guys. YOU are aligned with the oppressors, not the liberators. That is why The People are reacting this way. You can keep parroting the left’s talking points about astroturfers and nazis, but somewhere deep down, you know the truth. You’re on the wrong side.

I do not think that opponents of Obamacare are insincere or are paid stooges. My sense, from what I have seen, is that the protesters are very sincere. And very scared. And very deluded as to the reality of the issue.

I think the rightwing propagandists have done a very effective job scaring the living sh*t out of people who seem to rely on them for all their information.

So are your concerns legitimate? In a totally theoretical sense – sure. If someone tells you that Obamacare is a socialist communist fascist kenyan plot to exterminate all the elderly, and probably the conservatives next, and if you are so gullible as to believe them, then of course you should be concerned.

But are you concerns legitimate in the sense of having some reference to the real world/ Not that I can see.

‘how come the more he talks about the proposal, the more it sinks in the polls?”

Because utterly unprincipled and outrageous demagoguery can often trump reasoned discourse, at least in the short run.

If you want the Dems to take your concerns seriously, why not take responsibility for articulating serious concerns. I suspect that y’all have entertained yourselves for so long with over-the-top ranting, on the radio, books etc. that you may have forgotten that that was just entertainment, and not how to conduct a serious national debate.

Who’s “we”?

If anything, it is rightwingers, with your constant talk of “real Americans” who seem incapable of understanding that a majority of real americans actually voted for Obama.

They didn’t vote for the shit he’s peddling now. That’s why folks are bailing out as he spends trillions on new deck chairs.

BTW, does anybody really believe him when he says he will veto a defense budget laden with pork?