Broken men aren’t effeminate

Now you’re just contradicting yourself, Ash. Contradicting what you said earlier: that effeminate homosexuals *are* men of “broken masculinity” (so-called).

I’m glad for you that “reparative” “therapy” helped you in your self-esteem. I’m not sure why the qualifier “masculine” was necessary. You are what you are, masculine, feminine, whatever, and you want to be able to embrace what you are. Should self-esteem for homosexuals be reserved only for those who embody a certain amount of masculinity?

A large part of Stonewall/Pride, in my view, is about being able to live in a world where Achilles, Richard I, or Lawrence of Arabia, can be open about his sexuality and his love of the special man in his life, the same way a straight man is open about his sexuality and the special woman in his life.

Patrick J. Sime

Stonewall/Pride is not about homosexual rights–it’s about sexual freedom for everyone, including freedom from gender. The men involved in that movement mostly imitate masculinity rather than embody it.

Achilles, Socrates, Richard I, Alexander, David, Lawrence of Arabia, Yukio Mishima, etc. are all men who loved men.

Also, we have different definitions of what it means to be masculine. For example, some people believe that simply by virtue of being attracted to men is “broken” masculinity. In any case, why the hostility towards men that don’t fit your definition of masculinity? Further, there are plenty of gay men who attend Pride events and/or have a different perspective of Stonewall that most would characterize of masculine or even hypermasculine.

Patrick J. Sime

http://depths.dacheron.com/2009/08/a-question-of-privilege/comment-page-1/#comment-8

I think men should be men and women should be women.

Then, androgynous-effeminate men such as Adam Lambert and Michael Jackson – who may be gay (Lambert) or straight (Jackson) – must be a real problem for you.

I think that a lot of the flamboyant, effeminate behavior associated with homosexuality is due to broken masculinity.

I think you’re wrong. First, what does “broken masculinity” even mean? You’re spewing psychobabble. Masculinity is a quality; either you’ve got it, or not. Not having it doesn’t make it “broken” in you, but merely absent. When look at something blue, do we say it has “broken orange-ness”? No, it doesn’t make sense. The quality of being orange is merely lacking – Not broken.

Second, I think it happens a lot of gay men are naturally feminine. And equally, a lot are not. It may have to with fetal development. Some gay men are physically feminized; others are physically hyper-masculinized. It takes all kinds to make a horse race. But trying to come up with psychological theories about certain people’s physical characteristics is stupid. And a tactic of the anti-gay.

I believe there are differences in the sexes. I think men should be men and women should be women. I am a man who loves men–I am not a woman in a man’s body, nor am I a man with a strong feminine side. Being homosexual means I am a fully masculine man who loves fully masculine men. I think that any other expression of homosexuality is rooted in broken masculinity and toxic shame–and that’s why I think Pride/Stonewall is so destructive. It feeds the brokenness and shame rather than working to repair masculinity.

Nope, probably a b!tch-fest filled with poorly dressed bull dykes who haven’t seen a razor in years.

I’ll pass.

By my heel, I care not.

I think that most homosexual men suffer from a sense of lost or broken manhood.

Dunno about you, but my manhood is just fine. Javier can vouch for me.

I do wish our blog had a significant source of outside income so I could attend the conference and report back to y’all on its proceedings.

You could ask for donations.

I do wish our blog had a significant source of outside income so I could attend the conference and report back to y’all on its proceedings.

I wish my blog had outside income so I could attend the event, deride the attendees, tell them to quick screwing up my country and get real jobs, then hit the beach!

And Kurt, I never did “reparative therapy” but I have experienced a very significant change in my orientation. BUT that was never the goal. Living my life congruent with my faith was/is. I am not knockin’ reparative therapy at all either.

And I was 100% gay and ok about it … I wasn’t anywhere near the middle of the Kinsey spectrum 17 years ago.

As far as reparative therapy, I think it doesn’t do any good in most cases, but anecdotally, I think there is some evidence that some individuals have found it helpful. I would speculate that any of the so-called success stories have been people close to the middle of the Kinsey spectrum anyway, so for them it was a matter of learning not to focus on their feelings of same sex attraction or learning how to repress them so that they could focus more on the possibility of relationships with the opposite sex. Or that’s my theory at any rate. I don’t believe everyone who claims it has worked for them is necessarily lying. I just think that the people who claim it worked for them are few and far between.

Then I asked him if his comments were considered “homosexist.”

The conversation thus ended abruptly and we never spoke again.

Checkmate.

Regards,
Peter H.

It’s like taking Advil to cure deafness. Advil works–it heals the headache which you thought was the source of your deafness. It’s disappointing because you’re still deaf, and you thought the Advil would help with that. But it’s not so bad–now you can handle being deaf better because you don’t have a headache anymore.

So, if you use reparative therapy to help with a sense of broken masculinity, it will work. And if you repair that broken masculinity, you’ll end up a stronger, more confident homosexual.

Most people don’t give a flying squirrel how others live their lives, and will judge them on their character. If you try to tell people to change the way they do things because some others don’t do it that way, you’re just asking for trouble.

And, really, West Palm Beach doesn’t sound all that bad. http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=1211