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Is The United States In a “Low Grade” Civil War?

It is a chilling question and one that has been troubling me for about two weeks.  I read the “low grade civil war” phrase as a declarative statement from a commenter on a news story about the Congressional Town Hall meetings and it has been rattling in my brain ever since.

I’ve been wanting to post about this question and today seemed like the right time since now I’m not the only one worried about this question.  In today’s Washington Times, actor/activist Jon Voight makes this statement:

“There’s a real question at stake now. Is President Obama creating a civil war in our own country?” Mr. Voight tells Inside the Beltway.

“We are witnessing a slow, steady takeover of our true freedoms. We are becoming a socialist nation, and whoever can’t see this is probably hoping it isn’t true. If we permit Mr. Obama to take over all our industries, if we permit him to raise our taxes to support unconstitutional causes, then we will be in default. This great America will become a paralyzed nation.”

“Do not let the Obama administration fool you with all their cunning Alinsky methods. And if you don’t know what that method is, I implore you to get the book ‘Rules for Radicals,’ by Saul Alinsky . Mr. Obama is very well trained in these methods.”

Now this is old news to anyone who really studied Obama’s past.  And I’m not as concerned about this kind of argument, nor the “birthers” distraction.

Here are my real fears about the United States heading into a civil war:

  1. There is a clear distinction between those who want a more authoritarian/socialist nation versus those who want to preserve the capitalist/democratic America we live in.
  2. There is a clear distinction between those who understand the principles and guidance and importance of the representative legislative process versus those who hide behind the Constitution as an excuse to create laws from the bench.
  3. There is a clear distinction between those who favor strong national security vs. those who want a borderless, global government.
  4. There is a clear distinction between those who hold US Constitutional principles dear (1st, 2nd, 10th Amendments in particular) and those who are ignorant or want to subvert those principles.
  5. There is a clear distinction between those who want to maintain a sensible fiscal policy versus those statists in Washington who spend our tax money with reckless abandon.
  6. There is a clear distinction between those who see themselves as Americans first versus those who want to segregate themselves into communities and ignore the national identity.
  7. Despite his promises, surveys show that Americans have elected one of the most divisive Presidents since Richard Nixon.

These are serious issues that fundamentally challenge the formation of the Republic itself.  Don’t buy into the childish arguments that every criticism of the Federal Government is based in racism.  That is ignorant and simple-minded talk.

I hope I am wrong, but my perspective has been reinforced by my reading of a 1997 book called “The Fourth Turning”.  I’ll do a review later, but needless to say — it is a chilling book that talks about unmovable historical cycles.  We are in The Crisis period now, according to the authors.

I’m anxious for a vigorous and respectful discussion on my question posed here.  No Americans in 1773 knew there would be a Revolution; no Americans in 1857 knew there would be a bloody Civil War; no Americans in 1928 knew there would be a global Depression and a 2nd global war.

-Bruce (GayPatriot)

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89 Comments

  1. Bruce, great post and I’m glad to see you visit the blog :-)

    Leftism, fascism, redistributionism, collectivism, whatever you want to call it – *is* civil war. It’s capturing the government and using to punish some citizens and reward others. Establishing a regime, punishing its enemies and giving their expropriated wealth, positions, etc. to the regime’s supporters. By its nature, it pits people against each other.

    Sometimes the civil war breaks out into the open. Recently, Hondurans had to kick out the leftist who was creating civil war among them. Some 35 years ago, Chileans had to kick out the leftist (Allende) who had been violating their Constitution and fomenting civil war among them, a truth conveniently forgotten over the years by most leftists.

    I don’t know if America’s government, under Obama and the Democrats, is so tyrannous that it should now be thrown. But I do know that it is so tyrannous that it should be morally condemned.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — August 21, 2009 @ 11:33 am - August 21, 2009

  2. (aargh – “…that it should now be *over*thrown”)

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — August 21, 2009 @ 11:34 am - August 21, 2009

  3. Heady stuff here, Bruce. I’ll have to think more on this.

    But, in the early 20th century, both the newly dynamic left and the technocratic right cast their lots with the Progressive cause. While we can wonder about ‘the path not taken’ at least we survived. Plus, we now have a century of Progressive failure to reflect on, which the beleaguered traditionalists never did.

    Does it not make your heart soar to see an Executive and a Legislative branch awash in Soros and Gill money, attended by their heralds on the network news fail so spectacularly in making their case?

    Tell me that you weren’t as excited as I was at those first jumpy YouTube clips. Run-of-the-mill Americans standing up to Specter and Silbelius and calling them on their lies and prevarications. Just stunning.

    Vigilance is the duty of every American, but I wouldn’t call for pessimism. Not yet at least.

    Best wishes,
    -MFS

    Comment by MFS — August 21, 2009 @ 11:40 am - August 21, 2009

  4. ILC – Yes, I know. I’ve been way too AWOL here lately. I have to pay the bills. If someone would like to pay me to write at GayPatriot, I’m all ears! (j/k)

    I’m glad you like the post. Please read the book, too. It is uncanny.

    Comment by GayPatriot — August 21, 2009 @ 11:45 am - August 21, 2009

  5. Love your post, very insightful and accurate. It will keep coming in small doses, after health care, card check then amnesty for illegals…..then the rest of the economy will implode as mortgages reset again in 2010, we will be bankrupt financially and morally ( I agree with I love Capitalism!)
    Jon Voight needs to produce Atlas Shrugged!

    Comment by Joanne — August 21, 2009 @ 11:48 am - August 21, 2009

  6. ILC – you just described american democracy, as its been going on since George Washington.

    GP
    You lost a few elections; the dems think Health Care is a national problem with a government solution while you don’t. Now its civil war?

    If so lets look at few of the issues you raise and why Civil war is not going to happen:
    Socialism – The republican party does not run on issues like “no more socialism” why? Because programs like Medicare and Social security are popular and are never going away.
    World Government – Nobody runs on abolishing the UN, WTO and the like (if that is what #3 is saying) because once elected you realize you need it.
    Cherry picking the constitution – They don’t run on selectively choosing which Amendments to the constitution to follow like taking out the 14th.
    And then this:
    “see themselves as Americans first versus those who want to segregate themselves into communities and ignore the national identity. ”
    I don’t understand this, do you mean like the people in little Italy who used to speak Italian? Do you mean the Great Grandma from sweden who only spoke swedish?
    What exactly are you talking about? Be specific.
    “surveys show that Americans have elected one of the most divisive Presidents since Richard Nixon. ”
    How? Since you are so adamant that its not racism, which exact policy of his do you think is so divisive

    I think more likely we will see what we saw in the ‘90’s. The right radicalize itself into violence as it becomes more and more marginalized.

    Comment by gillie — August 21, 2009 @ 12:10 pm - August 21, 2009

  7. Joanne –
    So if the economy does not implode but instead improves are willing to give Obama credit?
    I am willing to go on record that if the economy does not improve, the republican candidate deserves a long look.

    Comment by gillie — August 21, 2009 @ 12:14 pm - August 21, 2009

  8. LOL….the funny part is watching the stupid gillie whine about the right becoming “marginalized”.

    Gillie and his Barack Obama support forcing taxpayers to pay for abortions, allowing illegal immigrants free health care, and abolishing private health insurance. They believe in massive tax increases and punitive laws forcing businesses to hire based on skin color and sexual orientation versus qualifications.

    Those views are the margin. Gillie isn’t capable of admitting that because he is a leftist liar. That’s why he and his Obama Party are shrieking that anyone who opposes those things is a racist, Nazi, evil-monger, and traitor.

    The left doesn’t win debates on merit. It wins by silencing its opponents. In the past, Barack Obama was able to make people who opposed him go away by screaming “racist”. It’s not working any more as his own racist, anti-business, contemptuous views of Americans are becoming more and more obvious.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — August 21, 2009 @ 12:22 pm - August 21, 2009

  9. It’s weird reading this – you guys are so out of touch, so insane, so backward it can only be considered pathological. Most you have NO idea about how the rest of the civilised world lives – and often more successfully than you guys.
    The truth is you simply can’t face that ALL your main ideas have failed – unbridled freemarket (fail), empire building (fail), extremist Christian at centre of government (fail), private health care (fail).
    Your politics get crushed democratically (the right wing were completely destroyed in the last election) so your ONLY option is to revert to crazy extremism.
    Just accept you lost and that history as moved on. However much you want things to go back to how they were IT WILL NOT HAPPEN.

    Comment by Dave Dangerous — August 21, 2009 @ 12:29 pm - August 21, 2009

  10. I said:

    Leftism, fascism, redistributionism, collectivism, whatever you want to call it – *is* civil war. It’s capturing the government and using to punish some citizens and reward others. Establishing a regime, punishing its enemies and giving their expropriated wealth, positions, etc. to the regime’s supporters. By its nature, it pits people against each other.

    gillie said:

    you just described american democracy, as its been going on since George Washington.

    Would anyone care for some nuts?

    But it is true that I’ve described American democracy for the past 80-100 years. Not “since George Washington”. But since the advent of the so-called “progressive” era, the fascism of Franklin Roosevelt and so forth.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — August 21, 2009 @ 12:44 pm - August 21, 2009

  11. I’m pretty sure that there were a lot of people in 1773, even more in 1857, but a lot fewer in 1928. Americans have gradually lost sight of how dear their freedom is, and are very willing to give away huge chunks of it to some faceless bureaucrat who promises “hope”.

    When we look back 20 years from now (assuming we survive) I’m sure the number will be very, very small.

    Comment by ColoradoRight — August 21, 2009 @ 12:58 pm - August 21, 2009

  12. Wait… there are twice as many conservatives in the country as liberals, and right-wingers outnumber left-wingers in all fifty states according to Gallup… but stupidbutt insists the right is being marginalized?

    Does everyone understand now why he is called stupidbutt?

    Comment by V the K — August 21, 2009 @ 1:09 pm - August 21, 2009

  13. [...] “Low Grade” Civil War? ~ Gay Patriot Is The United States In a “Low Grade” Civil War? Gay Patriot ^ | August 21, 2009 | Gay [...]

    Pingback by Is The United States In a “Low Grade” Civil War? ~ Gay Patriot « -THE "G" BLOGS ~ Gunny G Online - — August 21, 2009 @ 1:14 pm - August 21, 2009

  14. 7. Despite his promises, surveys show that Americans have elected one of the most divisive Presidents since Richard Nixon.

    As I was there while Richard Nixon was president I would suggest that B. Obama is more divisive than Nixon ever was while in office. No one was openly or even in private discussing civil war while Nixon was in office. Nixon only severely irritated the ultra-liberal progressives. And did a very good job of it as they are still spitting.

    Comment by OldNuc — August 21, 2009 @ 1:14 pm - August 21, 2009

  15. “Daddy thinks there is going to be a depression.”

    – Grace Coolidge, referring to her husband (1928)

    Comment by Ignatius — August 21, 2009 @ 1:51 pm - August 21, 2009

  16. I have just been a Town Hall meeting held by my US Senator, Jim DeMint. What a breath of fresh air. Now we need 49 more…….
    If you have a chance read his health care bill – The Health Care Freedom Plan. This is what we should be doing.
    He has also written a book, Saving Freedom.

    Comment by PatriotMom — August 21, 2009 @ 1:54 pm - August 21, 2009

  17. I think this post is farcical. It reaches absurd conclusions because it is based on a profound ignorance of American history, and an almost comical misrepresentation of the current positions of those who disagree with you.

    In terms of general levels of contentiousness in society – we are in a relatively peaceful period. I can’t believe that the sight of a few thousand people, scattered across the nation, getting so riled up that they feel the need to bully their congressman and fellow citizens over healthcare, is somehow comparable to a civil war. There has been hugely greater levels of public discontent with government, not only just in our lifetimes but in the past decade. The level of public protest, and the level of vitriol spewed between the two sides was far larger in the debates over the Iraq War than anything we have seen this year.
    And if you want to start remembering the sixties and Vietnam – a cultural and political war that makes this year look like a national love-in….

    Your seven points of dissension are a complete joke. If you really wanted to advance your hypothesis regarding a potential civil war, you owe it to yourself to at least make an effort to analyze the situation in a fair-minded manner – if not ‘objectivly’. Not for the sake of being fair to your opponents, but simply to be fair to yourself – to develop as clear an understanding of the real world as possible.

    Your opponents are not socialists, and are, if anything less inclined to authoritarianism than the modern right. Y’all have spiraled your rhetoric into amazing pretzel shapes, but its quite the stretch to claim that a desire for a Medicare-like option, as an alternative to private health insurance, makes one an authoritarian.

    “…importance of the representative legislative process versus those who hide behind the Constitution as an excuse to create laws from the bench.’

    Hah! This from people who spent eight years supporting an out-of control executive branch that did everything it could to undermine the “representative legislative process”??? As for the courts, I guarantee you that if Obamacare passes, the right will try their best to get the Courts to substitute their judgment for that of the “representative legislative process”.

    “those who favor strong national security vs. those who want a borderless, global government.”

    Really? Which side was George Bush on? And what proposals are out there that cause you to percieve this distinction?

    “those who hold US Constitutional principles dear …and those who are ignorant or want to subvert those principles”

    Well there you are correct. We just managed to defeat the party that carried on an 8 year war on the Constitution. You should really come to grips with the fact that, part of the reason for the unbelievably low approval of the GOP, is its recent history of disrespect for our Constitutionally guaranteed civil liberties.
    Do be aware – we will fight for those rights if necessary.

    “a sensible fiscal policy versus those statists in Washington who spend our tax money with reckless abandon.”

    Once again, if you leave aside the spending that was necessary to keep this country out of a depression – a worthwhile violation of normal fiscal prudence – then its hard to see how you can pretend that the GOP is any better than the Dems. In fact, based on the past two presidents, the Dems come out by far the better. So I dont know how you would draw some clear line here.

    ‘see themselves as Americans first versus those who want to segregate themselves into communities and ignore the national identity.”

    I would rephrase that. A distinction perhaps between those who see themselves as “real Americans” (and thus manifest a lack of understanding of what America stands for), and those who are more tolerant of diversity.

    “surveys show that Americans have elected one of the most divisive Presidents since Richard Nixon.’

    Thats interesting. Given that a majority of Americans still approve of his job performance, thats quite an interesting analysis of yours.
    Perhaps Bush was more of a uniter in that he united the country against him, against Republicanism. Is that what you are trying to get at?

    Being divisive is not something entirely within the hands of the President. Obama has gone so far out of his way to court support from Republicans, he has more than fulfilled his end of the bargain that he promised during the campaign. On this very important issue – health care – he has empowered the Republicans – the party that actually lost last November – by making it so clear how he prefers a bipartisan solution. In fact he is facing a revolt from his own party who rightly feel that the winners of the election should have the right to write the legislation, not the losers.

    Things have become so divisive because the GOP, having convinced itself that it was the party of the “real Americans”, and having had such great success controlling everything in Washington, and believing that we were entering a new era of permanent Republican dominance, has not yet been able to assimilate and understand how they could so summarily be booted from power. They have no new ideas, because they still dont understand why the old ones failed. They have no new outreach to other groups, because they still rely on mocking derision of all who oppose them.

    In the face of what looked like it may become a terminal meltdown of the party, the GOP latched onto a political strategy by which they could hope to hold together the party until they could figure out a new general approach. This strategy was to oppose the new President absolutely – no matter what he proposes, and to sink back into the red-meat intoxication that characterized the party in the nineties. Derangement, indeed hatred, as an organizing principle. We see it everyday even here, in the comments.

    If that is the strategy of the opposition, there really is nothing a President can do to unite the country, as much as he tries. Except to make all of you irrelevant – which may still happen. Here is my warning to you guys – although Obama is in a rough patch now, the GOP is far far lower, and not gaining anything at his expense. Obama’s popularity is very likely to improve (all presidents have their ups and downs) – especially as the economy continues to improve.
    If his popularity goes up, and yours, as a party, stays down at these historically low levels, then y’all have some really serious problems.

    If you cant figure out a way to win popularity with the American people, maybe you will start a civil war?

    Comment by Tano — August 21, 2009 @ 2:01 pm - August 21, 2009

  18. I remember very well the “progresive cause” in the 30s. It was stopped when the president was unable to “stack” the Supreme Court. The president now is going to do it by appointments and he already has a good start.

    Comment by John W — August 21, 2009 @ 2:12 pm - August 21, 2009

  19. I know it’s asking too much of Tano’s widdle brain, but do you care to cite anything to back up your innane statements?

    Comment by The Livewire — August 21, 2009 @ 2:27 pm - August 21, 2009

  20. Tano-

    Why don’t you and your ilk recall that at least at this blog, we REPEATEDLY criticized the big government/statist views of GWB and the GOP majority?

    What is it with liberals and revisionist history?

    Tano — Read “The Fourth Turning” then come back.

    Comment by GayPatriot — August 21, 2009 @ 2:27 pm - August 21, 2009

  21. ILC –
    Here are some presidencies to look into:

    William Harding
    Ulysses S. Grant’s
    John Tyler

    all of my top of head with no research but all presidencies used power to enrich themselves, pals and curry favor with the electorate.

    back on topic:
    Can anyone rise to the challenge:

    “surveys show that Americans have elected one of the most divisive Presidents since Richard Nixon. ”

    Since you are so adamant that its not racism, which exact policy of his do you think is so divisive

    Comment by gillie — August 21, 2009 @ 2:32 pm - August 21, 2009

  22. Let me add, I’ll even help Tano, in no set order…

    Belief in President Obama’s ability to make the right choices below 50%.

    “Your opponents are not socialists.” Hmm, who does the socialist in congress canvas with? Yes, yes they are.

    Comment by The Livewire — August 21, 2009 @ 2:34 pm - August 21, 2009

  23. William Harding
    Ulysses S. Grant’s
    John Tyler

    All known to me and, despite their wrongness, far more benign than the turn that American democracy has taken in more recent decades.

    Next bullcrap point, gillie?

    Since you are so adamant that its not racism, which exact policy of his do you think is so divisive

    Oh, and there it is. We’ve been telling you, gillie. Over. And over. And over. But you choose to pretend we haven’t said it.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — August 21, 2009 @ 2:39 pm - August 21, 2009

  24. *yawn* time to play whack-a-gillie.

    With less than half of the American people thinking he can and will improve the system I’d call that pretty divisive

    Time is showing that cash for clunkers is a boondoggle. Again, strongly opposed.

    Maybe his continuing insulting of our allies would be seen as divisive.

    Or his continued softness towards terrorists, including cohorts of Yasser Arafat and of course his good budies in the Weathermen and his own AG who has conflict of interest issues.

    Like I said, what’s the difference between Sarah Palin and Barack Obama? Sarah Palin has no problem with us killing terrorists from the air. Barack Obama instead campaigns from their living rooms.

    Comment by The Livewire — August 21, 2009 @ 2:43 pm - August 21, 2009

  25. Of all the Presidents since Eisenhower, only Obama and Clinton have been this divisive in their first term, as measured by their approval ratings:
    http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=Y2U1ZDBjMzAzOWFjMzNmNWEyNmRhNGE3YmY5ZjdiMDQ=

    Obama’s approval rating is lower than Bush’s was, at this point in his first term. Obama 54, Bush at the same point 56. The difference is probably insignificant but the point is: there they are, together.

    And Obama’s *drop* in approval rating is far greater than Bush’s was at this point; in fact, greater than any President since Eisenhower, except Bill Clinton: Both dropped 14 points in approval, moving from January to August.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — August 21, 2009 @ 2:50 pm - August 21, 2009

  26. Great book, read it a few years ago myself, and great question to at least stir up discussion. I am interested to see your review and further thoughts.

    Comment by Randy — August 21, 2009 @ 2:50 pm - August 21, 2009

  27. Of all the Presidents since Eisenhower, only Obama and Clinton have been this divisive in their first term…

    Demonrats are inherently divisive because they always run as moderates then govern as liberals.

    Comment by V the K — August 21, 2009 @ 3:04 pm - August 21, 2009

  28. Tano, I’m with you on this one.
    But I think your first paragraph was sufficent.

    Any of you ever been in a civil war? You know where you brother kills your cousin because he’s politically on the other side. That is civil war.

    Comment by Geena — August 21, 2009 @ 3:05 pm - August 21, 2009

  29. Geena, how about when your brother votes to have the government kill your cousin because he’s politically on the other side?

    How about when your brother votes to have the government kill your cousin because he’s politically on the other side, but very slowly? E.g., kill off his business first, or his kids’ college savings.

    I appreciate the distinction you’re making. On the other hand, Bruce specified “low grade” as a qualifier. There is some kind of continuum here or at least a ziggurat, where people using the government to grab power and injure other citizens’ interests escalates to people using the government to kill their opponents escalates to your definition of civil war.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — August 21, 2009 @ 3:13 pm - August 21, 2009

  30. Demonrats are inherently divisive because they always run as moderates then govern as liberals.

    Bingo, V the K, and that is what Barack Obama’s ranting above is missing.

    Case in point:

    Things have become so divisive because the GOP, having convinced itself that it was the party of the “real Americans”, and having had such great success controlling everything in Washington, and believing that we were entering a new era of permanent Republican dominance, has not yet been able to assimilate and understand how they could so summarily be booted from power. They have no new ideas, because they still dont understand why the old ones failed.

    Let us review on what Barack Obama ran:

    – Tax cuts
    – Spending cuts
    – Personal responsibility for morality
    – Reducing abortions
    – Against mandates for health insurance
    – Prosecuting those who don’t pay taxes and should

    In contrast, what is Barack Obama doing?

    – Tax increases
    – Spending increases
    – Government programs as morality
    – Government funding and promotion of abortions
    – Mandates to buy health insurance
    – Appointing those who don’t pay their taxes and should to Cabinet and key advisory positions.

    Hence the point. Obama didn’t offer “new ideas”; he co-opted conservative ideas in order to get into office with the belief that, once he was there, he could completely reverse himself and incorporate his unpopular liberal dogmas.

    In short, Obama Party members lied to get into office — and now those lies are being exposed as such. Hence why Obama and his fellow Obama Party members are trying to shut down those who are exposing their lies by calling them racists, evil-mongers, Nazis, traitors, and so forth.

    Barack Obama has never been held accountable for what he says or does before because he has spent his entire life in a liberal cocoon where anything a black man says is right and anything is moral and right as long as it’s done to gain political power.

    The universe works rather differently.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — August 21, 2009 @ 3:53 pm - August 21, 2009

  31. I LoveCapitalism wrote:
    > kill off his business first, or his kids’ college savings

    By this standard we’ve been at war for 200 years.

    After Katrina, a few extremists claimed George Bush had committed genocide against African-Americans in New Orleans. I remember when gay men claimed Reagan was killing them by not talking about AIDS. Both are absurd metaphors and diminish using the word kill and government in one sentence.

    I don’t care for Obama either, but we are not in a state of civil war and Obama is not killing anyone.

    This thread should die and be buried at Gettysburg.

    Comment by Geena — August 21, 2009 @ 4:18 pm - August 21, 2009

  32. Gettysburg, where the last hopes of the Democratic Party to enforce slavery upon the whole country were entombed?

    The Founding Fathers- who I think you’ll admit knew a little more about revolution and civil war than you do, Geena- put the Second Amendment in the Constitution for a reason, and not just for personal defense.

    Comment by DaveP. — August 21, 2009 @ 4:28 pm - August 21, 2009

  33. Where are you getting these conclusions? I have no problem with the 2nd Amendment. I defended the man who took one to the health care rally in NH.

    Fine, go out into the populace trying to convince folks we are in a civil war, a real winning strategy for either side.

    Comment by Geena — August 21, 2009 @ 4:34 pm - August 21, 2009

  34. authoritarianism/socialism? you do realize those things are generally regarded as being on the opposite end of the political spectrum from each other, right (socialism on the left, authoritarianism on the right)?

    Comment by bob (aka boob) — August 21, 2009 @ 4:35 pm - August 21, 2009

  35. By this standard we’ve been at war for 200 years.

    I would say 80-100 years. Things took a huge leap (the ziggurat concept again) with the 16th Amendment and the creation of the Federal Reserve, both in 1913; another with WW1 industrial boards; and another with Hoover-Roosevelt (who followed fascistic policies with Roosevelt intensifying or completing Hoover initiatives, much like Obama is doing with some of Bush’s great mistakes). All these things create a world of pressure-group warfare far beyond the worst of the 19th-century scandals or bank controversies.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — August 21, 2009 @ 4:39 pm - August 21, 2009

  36. “we REPEATEDLY criticized the big government/statist views of GWB”

    What is your point? You were trying to argue that we have a low grade civil war going on. By emphasizing the extent to which you have disputes with the Republican party – that advances your argument how?

    I wasnt trying to tie you to Bush so much as to indicate the extent to which these great dividing lines that you imagine, are actually quite fuzzy and indistinct.

    Comment by Tano — August 21, 2009 @ 4:39 pm - August 21, 2009

  37. “Of all the Presidents since Eisenhower, only Obama and Clinton have been this divisive in their first term, as measured by their approval ratings:”

    What on earth do you mean by this? How are you defining “divisive”? Reagan, who got a big sympathy boost when he was shot while still in his honeymoon period, saw his approval rating go from the mid sixties to the mid thirties in his first two years. Obama has a very long way to go to match that!

    Comment by Tano — August 21, 2009 @ 4:52 pm - August 21, 2009

  38. Various polling organizations over the past several months are labeling Obama as “divisive” because the gap between Dem support and GOP & Independent opposition is so large in comparison to Bush, Clinton, etc.

    Tano, since you probably get all of your information from MSBNC/NYT, I understand why you weren’t aware of that.

    Comment by Bruce (GayPatriot) — August 21, 2009 @ 5:10 pm - August 21, 2009

  39. What on earth do you mean by this?

    But I said exactly what I mean, Tano, right in the same comment.

    I guess your basic reading problems are kicking in. Again. *sigh*

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — August 21, 2009 @ 5:20 pm - August 21, 2009

  40. And yet *again* Tano has nothing but talking points and can’t back it up.

    Comment by The Livewire — August 21, 2009 @ 5:25 pm - August 21, 2009

  41. Eventually, all hosts, when invaded by parasites, go on the defensive and purge them either by natural biological means or with aids to help those natural biological means. It’s just part of nature.

    Comment by Steven E. Kalbach — August 21, 2009 @ 5:31 pm - August 21, 2009

  42. It is bazarre to me to hear leftists call todays America a failure. When the root of their complaints are that Bush 43 took us into a war that 40% of America was against but turned out allright. And 45 million Arabs are now free. And America is safer. But to listen to the leftists, they condem capitalism, conservatism and freedom, not wanting to credit those with creating the most amazing union in the history of mankind. Their guy Obama wants to throw most of that away and they are happy with it. Obama would be happy to copy the USSR or Cuba model come hell or high water. But thank God 55% of America still wants free capitalism and conservatism. He and his allies overstepped and now we can lurch back to a free republic. The lefties had a chance and boy did they blow it. Free America is rilled up, and is ready to defend the Republic. I’ve called for a velvet revolution and it is a beauty to behold. Thank you to the freedom fighters. Their weapons are organizing and talking, making signs and shouting when necessary. Thank you. The leftists Democrat socialists are so weak, they can’t beat back freedom fighters armed with talk radio, some town hall meetings, poster board and magic markers. Weak because their ideas are polluted and rank. Like their leaders.

    Comment by Gene in Pennsylvania — August 21, 2009 @ 5:37 pm - August 21, 2009

  43. Bruce,

    OK, I am looking at a pew poll that does show that. Interestingly, by that standard, it seems that the least divisive president in recent times was…Jimmy Carter.

    What is interesting in the numbers, what really stands out, is the really low approval for Democratic presidents from Republican voters. Obama and Bush have similar support from thier own party – and Obama actually a point higher than Bush among independents. Its just Republicans that approve of him 10 pts. less than Dems approved of Bush.

    I guess it makes the point that when Republicans get derangement syndromes, they are more virulent than Dems.
    LINK

    Comment by Tano — August 21, 2009 @ 5:38 pm - August 21, 2009

  44. authoritarianism and socialism. There are no pat answers but most everyone would call Castro and Chavez both NO? If not out right communists. But God knows they are authoritarianists too.

    Comment by Gene in Pennsylvania — August 21, 2009 @ 5:39 pm - August 21, 2009

  45. By the way, some educated in the public school system and given nightly updates by MSNBC…..think Fascist Nazis are far right. When in fact Nazis were the NATIONAL SOCIALIST PARTY. Communists and socialists are lefties. Have there been more tens of millions killed by any other than those two ideologies?

    Comment by Gene in Pennsylvania — August 21, 2009 @ 5:43 pm - August 21, 2009

  46. To answer your question Bruce: No. It would take far, far more than whatever problems libs and cons may have with each other. The Civil War remains the costliest war in terms of lives and destruction on our soil. I do not see the overwhelming majority of Americans of whatever political stripe supporting such an endeavor unless they felt there was no other choice. That would require a repeat of the Depression and/or unarguable tyranny from the Feds so odious that a substantial number of Americans believe the political process was unable to fix it.

    We are not there yet, nor do I see us arriving there in my lifetime at least. Anyone who tries to take us down that bloody road now would be dismissed as crazed lunatics and would seriously harm whatever cause they are perceived to represent. I would go further: anyone who embraces this method and takes up arms to initiate such a conflict without serious justifiable cause is a traitor worthy of facing the ultimate penalty for treason. Such justifiable cause enough to risk the horror of another civil war doesn’t exist in the United States right now.

    Btw, no I’m not inferring that you are calling for civil war in your post. I understand your concerns but do not believe they will lead us to civil war.

    Comment by John — August 21, 2009 @ 5:43 pm - August 21, 2009

  47. Is Obama the Most Divisive President Ever?…

    While I don’t believe we are even close to a civil war, I do believe we are inching running towards a massive tax payer revolt against our current government.
    ……

    Trackback by UrbanGrounds — August 21, 2009 @ 5:46 pm - August 21, 2009

  48. No Tano it proves our young President Obamateleprompter promised to work together bring a new aura of accountability and transparency to DC. And in his first 6 months he’s stated “he won” and went about trying to do things with just Democrat votes. He deserves to lose his independent support. He lied. And I dont’ recall Democrats saying during the campaign that “Obama will govern and have the same poll ratings as Bush or Carter.” Geez. Can you guys lower the bar any further from where he once was. I remember the Greek columns and the Herculian speeches, with the fainting and crying women and cherubs. Is the dream dead?

    Comment by Gene in Pennsylvania — August 21, 2009 @ 5:48 pm - August 21, 2009

  49. The horror and nightmare for the Democrats only gets worse…..

    http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE57K4XE20090821
    NINE TRILLION!
    how much for every man woman and child?
    the people have awoken.

    Comment by Gene in Pennsylvania — August 21, 2009 @ 5:51 pm - August 21, 2009

  50. The truth is you simply can’t face that ALL your main ideas have failed – unbridled freemarket (fail), empire building (fail), extremist Christian at centre of government (fail), private health care (fail).

    Unbridled freemarket(sic) ? Which free market would that be exactly? Every industry, every company in this country is regulated, the health care and financial markets especially so. Others subsidized. The US is not a ‘unbridled’ free market. That is simply false. To glide over this on the way to your invective leads me to believe you are not a serious student of any subject let alone economics or history.

    Empire building? Again, this empire of which you write, no one in the US wants to stay in Afghanistan or Iraq. No one. Not on the Right and not on the Left. Every single one of us wants to leave both locales, the only difference, which you casually ignore, is that those of us on the Right are only willing to be done with these places after they are relatively stable and inoculated against supporting Islamist terror.

    Extremist Christian? From your screed I can tell you aren’t seriously interested in calibrated descriptions of your opponents, and this is a good example. Does an extremist christian join his opponents in signing legislation such as NCLB, Medicare D, billions to fight AIDS in Africa, or on a multitude of other things for which he received not even the slightest recognition from the Left? I would declare your sense of extremism malfunctioning if it weren’t for your insulting style.

    Private health care? Oh, right the private health care that is profitable and one of the best in the world despite a constellation of regulation while government run systems are running consistently in the red.

    Right, right. Wouldn’t want to have any of that nasty profit in health care. Wouldn’t want doctors, researchers, hospital staff be motivated to excel, overcome, or discover. No, no, no. We all know that those types should be paid only what government bureaucrats decide they should. Damn the consequences or forcing well meaning and highly trained professionals into a soul-crushing spot caught between ever-mounting red tape and increasing demand for health care. Damn the resulting and inevitable corruption, apathy, and decay.

    Fantastic concept there. Pardon us if the rest of the country declines your reasoned and well-intentioned offer to have the government run everything. We’ve seen where that road leads and it doesn’t intersect freedom, prosperity, or happiness. So whether or not it pleases you, no. A thousand times, no.

    Comment by Chimney Sweep — August 21, 2009 @ 5:54 pm - August 21, 2009

  51. No Gene, the dream is not dead. The poll data that Bruce and others tout fits perfectly into the narrative I laid out. A deeply unpolular party, booted from office, with no new ideas, resorts to whipping up hatred and derangement against the president as their only hope to rally their own supporters.

    They have some success, since whipping up fear is something they are very experienced at. So we see these polls in which the remarkable stat is that Republicans hate the president more than the Dems hated Bush. Well, at least in the first year.

    I dont quite understand why you guys think this is a point in your favor.

    I reapeat my cautionary tale. Obama’s numbers will rebound as the economy continues to improve. The GOP numbers, which have not gained at all from Obama’s slight decline, will probably sink even lower, if anything, once the American people see Obama’s policies working, and the GOP having opposed them all.

    Comment by Tano — August 21, 2009 @ 6:13 pm - August 21, 2009

  52. I can’t believe that the sight of a few thousand people, scattered across the nation, getting so riled up that they feel the need to bully their congressman and fellow citizens over healthcare, is somehow comparable to a civil war.

    And

    A deeply unpolular party, booted from office, with no new ideas, resorts to whipping up hatred and derangement against the president as their only hope to rally their own supporters.

    How, exactly is your arrogant, elitist contempt you have for Americans going to work in your favor? Same question goes to SOBama, Stretch Pelosi, Harry Reid etc. The American people are done biting on a pillow and accepting the ass rape that is liberalism.

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — August 21, 2009 @ 6:32 pm - August 21, 2009

  53. A deeply unpolular party, booted from office, with no new ideas, resorts to whipping up hatred and derangement against the president as their only hope to rally their own supporters.

    Notice how Barack Obama makes it clear that he is always right and that anyone who in any way opposes or criticizes his behavior is hateful and deranged.

    Also notice how Barack Obama insists that every idea must be “new” and that everything that was done before is somehow wrong or outdated and has to be replaced.

    You can see the collapse of liberalism in vivid detail. Lie to the voters to get elected, demonize them when they start to object in order to shut them up, and then try to systematically dismantle everything in favor of experiments based on loopy leftist ideologies that have only resulted in economic retardation and failure.

    Let’s put it this way, Barack Obama; France, Germany, and the rest of Europe have tried Obamanomics and been rewarded with double-digit unemployment, sclerotic economies, and massive deficits — which is why they are universally in the process of reducing taxes, unwinding public benefits, de-privileging labor unions, and removing anti-business and anti-free trade policies.

    But then again, your blackness is going to solve all of our problems. After all, being black has been your answer to everything before, so certainly it MUST be right.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — August 21, 2009 @ 6:32 pm - August 21, 2009

  54. Oh and we’re keenly aware, Tano, that Chairman Obama has no constitutional authority to implement his death care goals. That’s much more realistic than your wet dreams that Bush was an enemy of the Constitution or however you put it.

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — August 21, 2009 @ 6:34 pm - August 21, 2009

  55. I do not think we are heading toward Civil War, but it could be akin to Verbal War. President Obama is ging to end up as a one term President. The reason I say this is that he realized that he had to complete his agenda by the end of August or that many Democrats would fall away because they would not commit Political Suicide supporting his agenda. Now that he has blown the lid off everything, and caused this Right-Left uproar, we will see both the Senate and House fall to the Republicans in 2010, making him a lame duck President before his time. Republicans will keep the pressure on until the Presidential elections regaining the White House 2012.

    So much for the Obama Administration!

    Comment by Donald Horton — August 21, 2009 @ 6:36 pm - August 21, 2009

  56. Gerald Celente predicts Obamageddon:
    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/21/video-obamageddon-in-2012/

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — August 21, 2009 @ 6:56 pm - August 21, 2009

  57. (and his analysis is a bit vague, being TV and all, but basically correct)

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — August 21, 2009 @ 6:56 pm - August 21, 2009

  58. I just lost my big response. In short, I think that there is a low grade civil war going on at the moment. It does not involve killing but it does involve people being encouraged to dob on others.

    Comment by thestraightaussie — August 21, 2009 @ 7:58 pm - August 21, 2009

  59. For more references and resources on historical cycles and related material, Google: ‘News Kontent: A reader’s resources on systemic collapse.’

    Comment by Warren Bonesteel — August 21, 2009 @ 8:19 pm - August 21, 2009

  60. I think the Obama and the Dems are merely quickly implementing the Cloward-Piven strategy. It’s possible some of the Dems are too dumb & arrogant to know it (see, e.g. Barney Frank), but I have no doubt Obama knows exactly what he’s doing.

    I haven’t been to Gay Patriot for a while. Has anyone mentioned Attorney General Eric Holder’s dismissing the charges against the militant New Black Panthers, seen on the YouTube at a polling place during the 2008 election, harassing with epithets and nightstick the white student who was filming them? Holder examined the evidence and decided there wasn’t sufficient evidence of a crime.

    To me, that’s one of the scariest things that has happened in this new presidency. If law enforcement will bear no resemblance to equal protection and the bad guys control the big guns, we’re in for a rocky 3 years for certain. With ACORN “helping” with the census and having been awarded billions of dollars in the “stimulus” bill, there’s no guarantee Congress can turn over in ’10, even if 60% of the voters WANT it to (the other 40% being recipients of Obama’s largesse). A billion dollars or two can buy a lot of “poll watchers.”

    And I have no doubt Obama would relish a little insurrection, just so he’ll have the excuse to declare martial law. Sorry, I do think he’s evil.

    Comment by polly — August 21, 2009 @ 8:19 pm - August 21, 2009

  61. So the kool aide drinking Democrats who still think there is nothing wrong….
    Obama promised a net spending cut…..today on friday as he leaves on vacation, he gives us a 9 Trillion dollar debt,
    Obama promised he’d bring people together to solve problems, internationally he is a horrid failure, no help for Iraq, no help for Afganistan, no help for Darfur.
    Obama promised us domestically he would briing us together, then he governs arrogantly and conceeds nothing.
    Obama promised us a high unemployment of 8%, it will hit 10% even he admits and probably will go to 12%.
    He promised us no pork bills, no ear marks then signs an $800 billion dollar pork bill. It’s passage, destroys his credibility and undermines his heath care ins reform.
    His polls are lower than Bush 43 or Carter at this same time.
    Yet the Obama toadies say they are happy and aren’t worried.Yet the Democrats are happy and smiling in their arrogant stupor of power.
    The Republicans have led in the generic ballot now for weeks. Bring on 2010. Experts are now predicting a 10-30 seat loss in the House for the arrogant out of touch liberal Democrats.

    Comment by Gene in Pennsylvania — August 21, 2009 @ 8:23 pm - August 21, 2009

  62. Google: ‘The Plain Truth: Beyond Conspiracy: Police State America.”

    and ‘The Next American Revolution Truth11′

    Many of you are still under the mistaken assumption that what is happening wrt to The Next American Revolution is about a left vs right and Republican vs Democrat paradigm.

    No, it is not. We are all enemies of the state.

    Comment by Warren Bonesteel — August 21, 2009 @ 8:35 pm - August 21, 2009

  63. Good Lord. Next theory: Obama is a Republican plant, whose policies are intended to mobilize the GOP.

    Comment by Ignatius — August 21, 2009 @ 8:59 pm - August 21, 2009

  64. #51: “I reapeat my cautionary tale. Obama’s numbers will rebound as the economy continues to improve. The GOP numbers, which have not gained at all from Obama’s slight decline, will probably sink even lower, if anything, once the American people see Obama’s policies working, and the GOP having opposed them all.”

    And when Obama’s policies don’t work and send the economy into a death spiral of sky-high inflation, crippling taxes, and record unemployment, you and your worthless party will blame Republicans. You will shamelessly and without a hint of remorse blame Republicans despite having Obama in the White House, a majority in the House, and a super-majority in the Senate. And the liberal MSM will assist the Left in selling such an outrageous lie because the fact is, with liberals, there is absolutely no outcome in which they will admit failure. They will defer, as always, to claims of a “lack of funding” or Republican obstructionism or right-wing corporate propaganda for undermining the well-intentioned solutions of their charismatic leader. We know this to be true for two reasons: (1) Democrats will not admit to categorical failures of liberal programs and policies in the past; and (2) they won’t acknowledge even the POSSIBILITY of failure in the future.

    To a liberal like you Tano, the failure of a liberal policy or program conclusively proves only one thing: that Republicans undermined, sabotaged, underfunded, or derailed it somewhere along the way. If liberals were willing to acknowledge objective outcomes and results, then Obama wouldn’t even be our President because his purportedly “new” and “fresh” ideas are not his ideas. They have all been attempted over and over again, failing every time. You call these things “Obama’s policies,” but they aren’t his to begin with. Tano, you’re not the first jacka*s to believe a charismatic politician who promises utopian prosperity though the massive expansion of a centralized federal government. You’re just the latest.

    Comment by Sean A — August 21, 2009 @ 9:05 pm - August 21, 2009

  65. #17: Tano wrote … I can’t believe that the sight of a few thousand people, scattered across the nation, getting so riled up that they feel the need to bully their congressman and fellow citizens over healthcare…

    This is rich: people go to town meetings to “bully” their elected “representatives” and that’s bad while the left uses the force of law in pursuit of its agenda and that’s a good thing.

    Bruce left out #8: people who want to use the force of government to pick my pocket in order to buy votes and further insulate themselves from the people they’re suppose to represent.

    Comment by SoCalRobert — August 21, 2009 @ 9:21 pm - August 21, 2009

  66. The Republican Party was broken and battered at the end of Nixons presidency. He resigned and when his successor President Ford pardoned him…..Jimmy Carter the Democrat won the office. The country wanted change and better more moral governance. An enept, administration with liberal policies completely took the country in the wrong direction and gave us the misery index that is still unbelievable to imagine. And the media and our liberal educators refuse to educate our young about the past liberal debacle. The misery index of 10% unemployment, 14% inflation, 21% interest rates. And a declining standard of living. Yes that was America in the late 70′s under a Democrat President. These smug leftist Democrats think it can’t happen again. The media and the educators refuse to educate our citizens about the past so our young can be on guard. But we have a fresh new teaching happening now. The Obama experiment. The country overthrew liberal bumbling Democrat rule in 1980. Four short years after the Nixon nightmare. Followed by 8 glorious years of Reagan and Bush 41. In just a few more months republicans and conservatives will be thanking Obama for “Carterizing” , damaging the Democrat party wounding it enough for a 2010 routing. Once again it will be up to the Republican to fix a mess, the Obama mess this time.

    Comment by Gene in Pennsylvania — August 21, 2009 @ 10:50 pm - August 21, 2009

  67. Obama’s numbers will rebound… once the American people see Obama’s policies working

    I read a lot of complete nonsense on this blog, some of it utterly ignorant of basic facts of economics. The above counts.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — August 21, 2009 @ 10:59 pm - August 21, 2009

  68. Yes and no, ILC.

    In the sense of Obama’s economic policies actually doing anything positive, you’re right, they won’t. They can’t. Obama is pumping a massive amount of money into the economy at its most unproductive points by taking it away from the most productive. You do not grow an economy by draining the capital from successful businesses and entrepreneurs so you can hand it out to welfare addicts. If anything, he will completely depress investment while overstimulating consumerism, which is a recipe for runaway inflation and double-digit interest rates.

    But the reason Obama puppets don’t worry about that is here (emphasis mine):

    once the American people see Obama’s policies working

    Obama’s entire plan is based on the Potemkin village model — hollow houses, empty suits, pretty to look at, but don’t look any deeper. He expects to be able to completely control the spin and the story, and in the sense that he has the media completely in his sway, asking him what they can do to help him and openly stating that they will do everything possible to help him succeed, he’s right.

    That being said, as always happens, guerilla tactics rise out of necessity. Palin is demonstrating this nicely; she knows that trying to get her message out through the MSM is folly, and that she can reach just as many people through Facebook and Twitter — on her terms. Hot Air and other websites are posting the video showing Barack Obama reversing himself, spinning, flat out lying, and saying totally different and contradictory things to different audiences. The town hall protesters are taping their own things and completely bypassing the media. Obama and his propaganda mouthpieces are getting caught doing more and more ridiculous things like their editing on the guns-at-rally story to eliminate all black people carrying.

    Obama has no chance without a compliant media in complete control of the message. That’s why the next thing I expect is an outright crackdown on conservative talk radio. Obama is upset, angry, and unfortunately emotionally immature enough to believe that he can actually get away with it, just like how he and his Party tried the accusations of racism, Nazism, evil-mongering, traitors, and the others to try to get people to shut up.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — August 21, 2009 @ 11:24 pm - August 21, 2009

  69. I think more likely we will see what we saw in the ‘90’s. The right radicalize itself into violence as it becomes more and more marginalized.

    Um, Giltard, have you checked the polls recently? The majority of Americans disapprove of OBAMA, the majority of Americans disapprove of DEMOCRATS. Americans trust REPUBLICANS more on every single issue from health care to the economy, to National Security to Social Security for crying out loud. Americans prefer Republicans over Democrats on the congressional ballot by 5 points. Even liberal strategists are predicting 20-50 seat losses for Democrats next year.

    You are DELUSIONAL!

    Comment by American Elephant — August 21, 2009 @ 11:38 pm - August 21, 2009

  70. The Fourth Turning is definitely a paradigm-shifter. I read it 6 or 7 years back and loved it. After Obama got elected, I decided to re-read it and found it even more applicable.

    Comment by Brendan In Philly — August 22, 2009 @ 12:12 am - August 22, 2009

  71. Uh, all that’s good and well, AE, but Obama has thrown billions of dollars out to ACORN and if THEY can’t fix the 2010 and 2012 election, he has other friends that will lend a hand.

    This MUST be the reason the Left is so certain that they have nothing to worry about.

    I do like the comment that the right will “radicalize itself into violence as it becomes more and more marginalized.” It doesn’t take much to radicalize the Left into violence; it’s not like they have jobs to keep them busy. The Right, though, don’t tend to hurt people and break things but rather go to work, earn a living, enjoy their friends and family. Maybe if this recession continues long enough, though, and Obama attacks business and productive people until even those willing to work become unemployed, maybe then the Right WILL rise up. What’s that saying about a sleeping giant?

    I don’t think Obama is terribly smart but he’s terribly terrible and pretty much ruthless. And there are obviously some people pretty much on his wave length and they’ll never see him as anything but admirable.

    It will take luck for America to survive 4 years of Obama. He IS worse than Carter.

    Comment by polly — August 22, 2009 @ 12:13 am - August 22, 2009

  72. And if there is another civil war in our future, the first will pale in comparison. At least that time around, there were strong geographic divisions. These days, cities and states would be torn asunder.

    Comment by Brendan In Philly — August 22, 2009 @ 12:20 am - August 22, 2009

  73. “Obama’s entire plan is based on the Potemkin village model — hollow houses, empty suits, pretty to look at, but don’t “look any deeper.”

    Where I come from, we call that a “50-footer” (usually in reference to a car): Looks great from 50 feet away, but the closer you get to it, the more rot you see.

    Some days, I feel a desire to just give up and let them have at it; the quicker they finish f-ing it up, the quicker we can get around to fixing it. Then I think about my kids and know I can’t jeopardize their futures at the hands of a bunch of bullies willing to strip them of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness the instant they refuse to bow down and kiss whatever anatomic part is presented.

    Comment by Angie — August 22, 2009 @ 12:53 am - August 22, 2009

  74. Er, uh, doesn’t a civil war require at least 2 sides? Who’s the other side, the Republicans? Conservatives? These milquetoasts don’t have the nerve to fight on even the most basic political level. They’re always in the pre-surrender mode. For God’s sake, anytime you’re tempted to write this sort of silliness in the future just picture Orin Hatch or Mitch McConnell or George Will.

    Comment by George — August 22, 2009 @ 1:55 am - August 22, 2009

  75. The left just hopes to keep bullying and ducking and dodging to keep this from becoming a real fight. The left has words, the right has the guns.

    Nor can the left depend on the police and military in this possible civil war, do they really expect to see the military fire on their own parents? The left made some real mistakes, starting toward the end of the Draft. The left found it’s way into college and then grad school, the kids on the right mostly enlisted.

    Personally I worldn’t mind seeing a real fight, it’s not like I have so much look forward to now that I’m in my sixties. I can still shoot a rifle, though.

    Comment by Peter — August 22, 2009 @ 3:34 am - August 22, 2009

  76. I can still shoot a rifle, though.

    Got an 1853 Enfield replica I haven’t taken out of it’s sock in a while. There’s some FFF around here somewhere, though don’t know how good it is.

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — August 22, 2009 @ 5:13 am - August 22, 2009

  77. Sorry I’m late to this post, have been ill most of the last two days. When Obama was elected I did something I’d never considered. I bought a gun, took lessons, and stocked up on ammo. Lots of ammo. I fully expect to see the street run red, I fully expect Obama’s goons to be coming for me at some time in the foreseable future. I will not go without a battle. I, and my late partner Vince, both fought for this country and I will not let it just slip from my fingers to this obamanation that currently rules. I expect, demand, and am prepared for REVOLUTION. The time has come, we are years overdue. Jefferson said every 20 years. I say the time is now.

    Comment by John in Dublin,Ca — August 22, 2009 @ 10:20 am - August 22, 2009

  78. Guys, there’s no point in trying to reply to gillie in this thread.

    Like a whackamole, he’s already popped his head out of another hole after getting beaten here.

    Comment by The_Livewire — August 22, 2009 @ 10:27 am - August 22, 2009

  79. When Obama was elected I did something I’d never considered. I bought a gun, took lessons, and stocked up on ammo.

    John, that’s on my list of things to do in preparation for the Dear Leader’s coming dollar collapse. What I have done already is: (1) re-weight my portfolio more toward foreign stocks and commodity producers – which has proven very profitable this year; (2) started learning a martial art. OTOH, it takes a new Carter to get a new Reagan and, best case, the Obama years may simply end with the latter.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — August 22, 2009 @ 1:50 pm - August 22, 2009

  80. After the question, “Is The United States In a “Low Grade” Civil War?” was asked I thought about it for a couple of days and the longer I look at what is happening around the country I think that we are actually in a “Cold Civil War” and not just a Low Grade Civil War. It will take very little to push it right over the edge.

    Comment by OldNuc — August 23, 2009 @ 9:00 am - August 23, 2009

  81. NDT, thanks for #68, I enjoyed it. Call me soon for lunch.

    the next thing I expect is an outright crackdown on conservative talk radio

    That should lead to some “fun”!

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — August 23, 2009 @ 12:23 pm - August 23, 2009

  82. [...] My answer is that he certainly is creating a civil war of a sort, but he has no idea that it’s happening. Before I expand on that, let be quote a bit from this very good post by Bruce at GayPatriot. [...]

    Pingback by Not Civil War, But Maybe Ross Perot — August 23, 2009 @ 3:02 pm - August 23, 2009

  83. [...] the whole thing, which also includes comments from Bruce of Gay Patriot on Voight’s rhetoric. And it’s also worth noting Gerard Vanderluen’s comment that [...]

    Pingback by Ed Driscoll » The Cold Civil War Heats Up — August 23, 2009 @ 4:25 pm - August 23, 2009

  84. “It doesn’t take much to radicalize the Left into violence; it’s not like they have jobs to keep them busy. The Right, though, don’t tend to hurt people and break things but rather go to work, earn a living, enjoy their friends and family.”

    Very good, in #71 Polly shows the ignorant side of conservatism that spreads ridiculous judgmental lies about the “other side” and gives a delusional rosy picture of the Right. FACT, Polly, whether you like it or not is that the vast majority of both sides are productive, working people just trying to get on with their lives. Bitter losers like yourself can’t accept that because it doesn’t feed into the atmosphere of hostility that it is so important to you.

    And then #77 shows us the unhinged, paranoid side that is begging for violence to appease some twisted need in themselves. Open your eyes Polly, he is not alone. John, you claim that you and your partner fought for this country. Then why are you so hungry to destroy it now? You are no different that the thugs in my neighborhood who use guns to compensate for their lack of true manhood and who shed blood without hesitation. America needs defending from YOU and and all those who are so warped that only violence will feed their needs. True Americans are not sitting with their hands on their guns waiting for an excuse to use them. True Americans are not babbling about a hallucinated civil war. True Americans want this country to move forward to be the nation of truth and justice it is meant to be. Masturbate with your guns little men and women but realize that if you get what you seem so much to desire you will lose, we all will lose and America’s enemies will gleefully dance on the ashes of a once great country.

    Comment by a different Dave — August 23, 2009 @ 6:42 pm - August 23, 2009

  85. [...] Counterrevolution by Mike Aug 24 2009 TrackBack Address. Jimmy Bise — with an assist from Bruce — says what a lot of us are thinking: I do believe there is a civil war coming in this [...]

    Pingback by On civil war » Cold Fury — August 24, 2009 @ 2:40 pm - August 24, 2009

  86. [...] Is The United States In a “Low Grade” Civil War? from GayPatriot.net [...]

    Pingback by tomllewis - Quotes for the past week. — August 29, 2009 @ 5:24 pm - August 29, 2009

  87. [...] Is The United States In a “Low Grade” Civil War? from GayPatriot.net [...]

    Pingback by tomllewis - Quotes — September 5, 2009 @ 8:17 pm - September 5, 2009

  88. [...] Elite Class and the Outside The Beltway Normals.   It makes me wonder where we are with our “low grade civil war” these [...]

    Pingback by GayPatriot » Major Shift in Political Winds in USA — October 26, 2009 @ 12:38 pm - October 26, 2009

  89. I support secession.

    Comment by Robbie — December 6, 2009 @ 8:24 pm - December 6, 2009

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