Ashpenaz, you make a good point here. The thing is, when it comes to voting, you barely get 50% eligible to vote. I hope that means we don’t become a dictatorship. It’s already a big shame that we let money corrupt voting.

Besides, I support ending DADT and allowing both straight and gay persons serving openly. A good majority of people these days don’t enter the military, but I believe we should let those who can and are willing to serve, to serve openly and honestly.

With regard to marriage, divorce rates have skyrocketed the past 50 years or so, yet we still believe that marriage is a good thing. I happen to believe that it is good to encourage same sex couples to marry. This would be beneficial to society, including ALL children who can grow up knowing they have a chance of the same American dream as others, as opposed of being shamed for being gay. I understand there are going to be plenty of people, gay or straight, who want to continue with promiscuity, multiple partners, and/or serial monogamy. That’s fine. I don’t want marriage forced on those who don’t want it.

Im more than happy to talk about “some people” on this blog too, If that is the new standard.

I just want a fair set or rules.

You’d be astonished about how they are willing to give gay couples rights without the “M” word

The American people are “anti-anti-gay”. I’ll take it. The American people are not “pro-gay” in the sense of pro-Gay Left Agenda… but no loss there; neither am I.

No more. Zero tolerance.

You are both on the verge of being banned.

Women who fought for the right to vote actually wanted to vote. They didn’t say, “We don’t plan to vote, voting goes against our lifestyle, and in fact, we think that participating in the patriarchal, oppressive government is evil, but we’re marching so that if there’s some woman out there who actually does want to vote, we want her to be able to.” They didn’t spend most of their time planning parades and rallies which mocked voting.

When a majority of gays start living in lifelong, monogamous, publicly accountable relationships, they’ll get the right to marry. But not until then.

Referendum 71 shows Washington’s strategy for marriage equality is working

The prospects are endless!

Best wishes,
-MFS

it’s a bit like wearing a seatbelt, son. Not much use to anyone else but good for the person in question

yeah that’s the problem Dr. Zen. Its not much good for anyone else, only another entitlement for the person in question!

The thing about marriage is it is demonstrably good for SOCIETY. And children being born out of wedlock is demonstrably very, VERY bad for society. Thats why government is in the marriage business to begin with. The states have said so and the courts have upheld their reasoning as valid — including the courts in New York, which I didn’t previously know.

The very best arguments Ive heard for gay marriage have been the ones that address why it would be good for society.

But its very difficult to justify marriage if the institution itself doesn’t exist for the sake of kids. Adults being adults can not only take care of themselves, but most conservatives EXPECT them to take care of themselves as long as they are able to. (no, im not saying we dont support helping people who need help) And not only that but conservatives believe adults can do a BETTER job looking out for their own interests than any government institution.

Indeed, that’s a core belief of conservatism. Its why we oppose social security, its why we oppose medicare, and its why we oppose marriage as anything other than an institution that exists for the sake of children because children CANT take care of themselves, and while adults are naturally given to looking after their own self interest, adults will often put their self interests ahead of childrens.

Want to convince people that gay marriage is a good idea? Convince them that adults need government to tell them what to do. And convince them that if not for the sake of children, there would be any reason whatsoever for government to be involved in the marriage business. Then convince them that mothers and fathers dont both matter to children.

That is what is required to justify gay marriage. Because I hate to sound cliche, but it really is about what is best for children.

I love the line about gay marriage advocates never explaining why gay marriage is a good thing. Well, it’s a bit like wearing a seatbelt, son. Not much use to anyone else but good for the person in question. Keep up the good work!

Not going to let you get away with that.

I have promised to drop it yet again, but ONLY if you promise to stop bringing it up again, and stop making your dishonest snie little remarks about some people on this blog.

Either than or I will insist you exlpain your unexplainable self-contradictions.

But if Im going to promise to drop it again, you have to promise to stop bringing it up. and stop your snide little attacks.

Are you ready to promise to stop bringing the subject up? And stop with your snide little dishonest comments about “some people on the blog” and all your similar tactics?

I proposed that hours ago, and many times since, and am still waiting for you to agree to it.

Thats the sticking point. ILC. Either that or explaining your insupportable contradictions. YOU. YOU having some integrity and character is the sticking point.

Can you agree to stop bringing it up again?

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/12/02/oh-my-gay-marriage-voted-down-in-new-york/

Tidbit of interest: a Marist poll showing 51% of New Yorkers in support of gay marriage, with a strong minority of Democrats opposed.